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Author Topic: NY Style sauce discussion  (Read 53699 times)

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Offline foreplease

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #420 on: October 24, 2018, 11:50:15 PM »
Crushed red pepper that you find in a shaker jar in every pizzeria.
I have grown and dried that several times. I remove the seeds from half of them before drying and find it is the ideal heat level for me. It does not take many plants to make a years worth. Fun to give away too.
-Tony

Offline foreplease

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #421 on: October 25, 2018, 12:00:58 AM »
With regard to earlier posts on Garlic in pizza sauce... The best garlic I've ever used that seems to give me that pizzeria taste is dried minced garlic added to the sauce that is then given at least a 24 hours to sit in the fridge.  Fresh garlic always seemed to bitter for me in the sauce and granulated garlic or garlic powder seemed too always be to strong.  The minced dried garlic seems to impart a nice garlic flavor without the bitterness that isn't overpowering. 

This discussion does have me thinking about cutting the top off an entire garlic bulb, pouring olive oil over it and roasting it until the cloves come out like a spreadable butter.  Perhaps that mellow roasted garlic smashed up into a paste and added to the sauce would be perfection?  I personally only like that "hint" of garlic in the sauce that says it's there but doesn't overpower anything.
I agree with most of this and your other two posts. Do you find the jarred minced garlic gels the sauce once it rehydrates? DoughDoctor has written quite a bit about fresh garlic doing this.


When I make pizza sauce I donít think of it as NY sauce. I always use quite a bit of olive oil - first and last ingredient in. Typically I heat a peeled halved clove in the oil for a couple minutes, remove and discard it (maybe use it further if sauteeing mushrooms that night). Once in a while I slice, chop, and make a paste out of garlic with the knife and coarse salt and add it to the warm oil, followed quickly by the tomato product. Iím not a fan of raw garlic or using lots of garlic in anything. Roasting cloves or the knife and salt grinding to a paste are the two ways I like best. I canít tolerate anchovies at all.


Your lemon boys sauce idea is good. Iíve grown and used them as great slicers and chopped and quick cooked as condiment for pasta, but never considered that they could be turned red for pizza.
-Tony

Offline Jackitup

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #422 on: October 25, 2018, 12:08:33 AM »
Crushed red pepper that you find in a shaker jar in every pizzeria.

Aleppo chili flakes also a very good choice! A little spendier, not much, but more character and depth!
Jon

ďThe two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.Ē            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

Offline jkb

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #423 on: October 25, 2018, 12:12:57 AM »
I often use dried minced garlic and it will thicken the sauce with time.  Not a bad thing when using Alta Cucina.  I like it because it is sweeter without the bite.  When I use fresh garlic, I smack it with the heel of my hand and add it to the cooked portion of my sauce and then remove it.  It adds a sweet rather than harsh garlic note.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 12:53:39 AM by jkb »
John

Offline jkb

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #424 on: October 25, 2018, 01:03:37 AM »
I canít tolerate anchovies at all.


You'd never detect in my sauce.  I add a 1/4 tsp to the sauce for a 20" pie to provide some salt and umami.  I try to keep the tomato front and center.  The acidity must not be overwhelmed.  It's the pivot between the cheese and the toasty/nuttiness of the crust.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 01:10:48 AM by jkb »
John

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Offline Jackitup

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #425 on: October 25, 2018, 01:23:36 AM »
What I like to do often with garlic is this, as mentioned previously roast them, like a half dozen at a time. Cut the tops exposing the cloves, set on squares of foil  drizzle with olive oil and salt, wrap and roast til soft, brown and sweet. When cool enough to handle but still warm, squeeze into a container, mash with some olive oil and freeze. When needed nuke for 20-30 seconds to soften and scoop out what you need and refreeze, GREAT way to use garlic, and always use the freshest you can find!!
Jon

ďThe two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.Ē            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #426 on: October 25, 2018, 06:38:57 AM »
I rarely do anything the same way twice, but there is a common theme to my NY sauce.

7/11 or Alta Cucina
A portion gets cooked (sometimes I use Saporito for the cooked portion).
The cooked portion gets anchovy paste, red pepper, black pepper, garlic, oil and a pinch of oregano.
I add pecorino and fresh basil and mill or stick blend everything.

That sounds great. I'm not ready to make the number of changes to my sauce to replicate it immediately, but I'm very tempted to try a bit of anchovy paste as I've been curious about it for a while. If you added a 1/4 tsp for 20" pie, maybe I'll do 1/8 tsp for 16".

But, what do you guys think about the anchovy paste going into a raw uncooked sauce?

Also, is there a big difference in quality/flavor across different brands of paste or can I just buy whatever the supermarket has in stock?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 06:41:48 AM by hammettjr »
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Offline 00rgiles

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #427 on: October 25, 2018, 06:43:09 AM »
Iím nervous about using garlic or garlic oil in my sauces, isnít there some unpleasant disease that can come from garlic... anyone know if thatís right and how it may be safe to use garlic?

Offline norcoscia

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #428 on: October 25, 2018, 06:57:26 AM »
Matt, I have never found an anchovy paste that I though tasted any good - if you are just checking anchovies out I recommend you buy a small tin (the ones that are about 3 inches by 1 inch) and mush the meat up you are going to use with a fork - They always taste better IMHO....

You will have some left - and if your interested -- the best cheese bread I have ever tasted was made with anchovies - happy to try to dig up the recipe if you are interested and have some extra anchovy you want to use up....

PS - remember they are very salty :-)
Norm
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Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline vtsteve

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #429 on: October 25, 2018, 11:27:22 AM »
I've been adding a small amount of Worcestershire sauce to my mix of 7/11 and either Alta Cucina or Saporito, thinned with water as needed (and black pepper and granulated garlic). Like, a teaspoon to 8-9 quarts of sauce. I figure it's almost authentic if you consider it British garum.
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Offline norcoscia

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #430 on: October 25, 2018, 11:34:28 AM »
I need to try the Worcestershire sauce thing since my wife will not eat / meat fish - it would be great if that works since she has some vegan Worcestershire sauce....
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline Hermit

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #431 on: October 25, 2018, 11:42:52 AM »
I've been adding a small amount of Worcestershire sauce to my mix of 7/11 and either Alta Cucina or Saporito, thinned with water as needed (and black pepper and granulated garlic). Like, a teaspoon to 8-9 quarts of sauce. I figure it's almost authentic if you consider it British garum.

I like this idea, I had thought about adding in a single drop to my 7oz of sauce I put on my normal pies.  I also thought about using half a tsp of grape jelly instead of white sugar.  Maybe tonight I'll give it a spin.

Ryan's experiment with using a lil bit of minced pepperoncini or it's vinegar got me using it regularly and it does something special to my sauce with the tomatoes I use (usually S&W or Contadina brand 5# cans).

I found I really like a combo of garlic powder, garlic salt, black pepper, oregano, banana pepper vinegar and sugar.  I also cook my WP tomato juice down to a sauce and add that in to my blended strained WP tomatoes, this is how I judge the sauce thickness so I dont have to add water.  I think that combination of fresh and cooked do wonders to the depth of the sauce.

I'm always looking to improve the sauce, and Matt's logic that the sauce flavors the pie is critical IMO.  I've had bland sauced NY slices and while it was good, it could have been better, I'd rather the sauce bring it and everything else either lay out as complimentary flavors but more importantly texture.  The decadence of the slice is also influenced by the sauce, not just the flavors but the texture and viscosity.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #432 on: October 25, 2018, 12:28:06 PM »
Lots of great stuff from everyone, alot for me to think about. And just after I said I was happy with my sauce  :-D

Norm, when you say you haven't found a good tasting achovy paste, is that when its a main conponent of a dish, or also in minuscule amounts like 1/8 tsp on a loaded 16" pie?
Matt

Offline norcoscia

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #433 on: October 25, 2018, 12:55:19 PM »
It is tasting it right from a tube compared to what an anchovy filet tastes like - I have never had any out of a tube (already ground up) that did not make me regret buying it - tiny cans (or bigger cans) of filets are so so much better. I can take anchovy filets out of a tin put them on a slice of bread and enjoy them - the stuff out of a tube is like barf toothpaste :-)

PS. anchovy filets are good on pizza but I only like them applied post bake.... big difference if they are cooked on the pie - but that is just my taste buds. I think they would be fine in the sauce (in small amounts).
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #434 on: October 25, 2018, 05:54:24 PM »
Anchovy filets are good on pizza but I only like them applied post bake.... big difference if they are cooked on the pie - but that is just my taste buds. I think they would be fine in the sauce (in small amounts).

I love anchovies - I'll eat them right out of the can (or jar) but if I am going to do anchovies I too prefer to tear up the little fillets and drop the pieces on a portion of the pie just when it comes out of the oven (that is also the time I'll add fresh snipped basil to the pie if I have it).  Anchovies baked on the pie (for me personally) always seem to over-power everything as their oil spreads out across and flavors everything.  A little anchovy goes a long way and leftover cold pizza the next day with anchovies isn't a favorite topping if there is going to be "next day" pizza left over.  I've minced them up very fine and smashed them up and put them in sauces before but even in a minuscule amount I still taste the anchovy (perhaps just because I knew I added it?) and am not a personal fan of the way they change the flavor of a pizza or marinara sauce.  Some in a meat sauce for pasta is different as they do enhance the meaty flavor when used in a sauce that has pork and beef in it.  Maybe they are best used as a true "secret ingredient" as in don't tell ANYONE you put them in the sauce and then they won't taste them or know where that different flavor but that is a dangerous thing to do as some people are allergic to seafood and could have a bad reaction to even a small amount added to a sauce.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 06:00:47 PM by Pizza Shark »

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Offline norcoscia

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #435 on: October 25, 2018, 06:05:40 PM »
Getting ready to fire up the BP GP-61 for the 7/11 / Full Red mix thinned with some CENTO passata test - dough was supposed to be a 48 hr CF but came out of the mixer hot and moved fast - so it is go time tonight.

Also going to try 1/2 of my cheese pizza with some fromage cheese - it melts like a dream (super gooey and stretchy) so I have high hopes.....
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #436 on: October 25, 2018, 06:20:51 PM »
Getting ready to fire up the BP GP-61 for the 7/11 / Full Red mix thinned with some CENTO passata test - dough was supposed to be a 48 hr CF but came out of the mixer hot and moved fast - so it is go time tonight.

Also going to try 1/2 of my cheese pizza with some fromage cheese - it melts like a dream (super gooey and stretchy) so I have high hopes.....

Norm my plate is ready  ;D

Can't wait to see those big slices!
the proof is in the pizza

Offline norcoscia

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #437 on: October 25, 2018, 07:47:02 PM »
They are going to be huge :-0

Warming up on the counter now!

PS. I put a touch of calabrian peppers in the sauce - it really tastes better!
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline foreplease

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #438 on: October 26, 2018, 12:48:05 AM »
Maybe they are best used as a true "secret ingredient" as in don't tell ANYONE you put them in the sauce and then they won't taste them or know where that different flavor but that is a dangerous thing to do as some people are allergic to seafood and could have a bad reaction to even a small amount added to a sauce.
Excellent point. That is the boat Iím in. I am the first to say I do not like fish but wish I did as it would greatly expand my menu and cooking chops. I do like other seafood. Itís enough to keep me from eating fish, particilalry anchovies to just say I donít like them at all but wish I did. The other thing that happens, which is also plenty good enough reason to avoid, is that I get poison ivy like symptoms all over my body after eating fish. Iíve not been tested for the allergy because of my fisrt listed reason I just donít think I need to know if I follow my plan to avoid fish, especially anchovies. The problem is I have been lied to several times from family and from restaurants. I have lost the battle to refrain from being quite nauceous just outside the nearest door at some otherwise nice restaurants. It takes bout 15 minutes to recover enough to rejoin my table and watch the others finish their meals while my poison ivy like symptoms quickly develop beneath my clothera. How would you tip on that experience? :)


Thank you for your statements on not hiding it.
-Tony

Offline Jackitup

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #439 on: October 26, 2018, 02:03:37 AM »
Excellent point. That is the boat Iím in. I am the first to say I do not like fish but wish I did as it would greatly expand my menu and cooking chops. I do like other seafood. Itís enough to keep me from eating fish, particilalry anchovies to just say I donít like them at all but wish I did. The other thing that happens, which is also plenty good enough reason to avoid, is that I get poison ivy like symptoms all over my body after eating fish. Iíve not been tested for the allergy because of my fisrt listed reason I just donít think I need to know if I follow my plan to avoid fish, especially anchovies. The problem is I have been lied to several times from family and from restaurants. I have lost the battle to refrain from being quite nauceous just outside the nearest door at some otherwise nice restaurants. It takes bout 15 minutes to recover enough to rejoin my table and watch the others finish their meals while my poison ivy like symptoms quickly develop beneath my clothera. How would you tip on that experience? :)


Thank you for your statements on not hiding it.

Tony, GET TESTED!
My favorite way to use anchovies and not have them toooo up front, is to mash them with a fork in some hot brown butter in a small fry pan till they melt into a wonderful loose buttery paste, great schmeared on even just a piece of toasted baguette! Add some roasted garlic paste to it and......... :drool: Add that to ANY sauce for an umami boom!
Jon

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If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

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