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Offline vtsteve

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #460 on: November 15, 2018, 11:13:38 AM »
If you tried to use straight Saporito super-heavy, you'd need to apply it with a putty knife.   :-D

I've used it in combination with 7/11 and *that's* too thick to spread, you need to thin it down. It fills out the flavor profile differently than a fresh(er) product. Alta Cucina (stick blended) + 7/11, on the other hand, is spreadable as mixed.


If you're in a small space, a case of Saporito can make 2-3 cases of finished sauce, so for a small, high-volume shop there's a storage aspect too.
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Offline Wushuliu

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #461 on: November 15, 2018, 01:00:57 PM »
Never thought about that, how about the use of anchovies in the sauce for a savory flavor style?

I am slowly honing in on a preferred sauce recipe for my NY-style pies and started adding fish sauce for the last couple of bakes. About a teaspoon or two of Thai Kitchen brand per strained 28oz can. No detectable fish taste and it gives a nice umami layer.

Since my focus is on nailing a great plain cheese recipe, I've found that more salt is needed than I typically see recommended. Salt and fat. After trying a couple different romanos I found the Locatelli brand and it definitely has the umami salt flavor of pizzas in my youth.

But the surprising star of my sauce trials so far has been the addition of ghee (clarified butter). About a teaspoon or two. It just pulls all the flavors together into a umami bomb. I imagine regular butter would work similarly. Makes sense though because of the combo of salt and fat, and more effectively to me than just oil.

Offline CIZ28

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #462 on: November 16, 2018, 04:00:19 AM »
If you tried to use straight Saporito super-heavy, you'd need to apply it with a putty knife.   :-D

I've used it in combination with 7/11 and *that's* too thick to spread, you need to thin it down. It fills out the flavor profile differently than a fresh(er) product. Alta Cucina (stick blended) + 7/11, on the other hand, is spreadable as mixed.


If you're in a small space, a case of Saporito can make 2-3 cases of finished sauce, so for a small, high-volume shop there's a storage aspect too.

Exactly and thatís how itís done in 8 out of 10 pizzerias. Heavy pizza sauce is thick tomato paste that has to have lots of water added to it, especially the super heavy. It is sweet and normally mixed with some actual crushed tomatoes. I can tell everyone that the sauce/tomatoes are unfortunately often an afterthought at most places and not where the money is spent. They usually focus more on the cheese and buy one good cheese to mix with a cheap cheese and good flour because you canít play around with the dough quality. The hard cheeses if used are also usually just some cheap supplier parmigiano or romano. Out of all the places Iíve worked and dumpster dove I can only think of a handful of that have used good quality tomatoes and hard cheese. Those are the most neglected ingredients. And the toppings if everything is canned and not fresh. Oh and oil. Oil that goes in dough in a typical place is always cheap soybean or canola oil. Anything that actually calls for oil on the pizza will usually be evoo or pure olive at least.
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Offline NY_Mike

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #463 on: November 16, 2018, 08:52:48 AM »
I am slowly honing in on a preferred sauce recipe for my NY-style pies and started adding fish sauce for the last couple of bakes. About a teaspoon or two of Thai Kitchen brand per strained 28oz can. No detectable fish taste and it gives a nice umami layer.

Since my focus is on nailing a great plain cheese recipe, I've found that more salt is needed than I typically see recommended. Salt and fat. After trying a couple different romanos I found the Locatelli brand and it definitely has the umami salt flavor of pizzas in my youth.

But the surprising star of my sauce trials so far has been the addition of ghee (clarified butter). About a teaspoon or two. It just pulls all the flavors together into a umami bomb. I imagine regular butter would work similarly. Makes sense though because of the combo of salt and fat, and more effectively to me than just oil.

I started using butter in my sauce last year and I have to agree, it really pulls the sauce together and brightens the flavor. It makes a pretty notable difference and I take it a step further, using both oil and butter (Half oil and Half butter).

Exactly and thatís how itís done in 8 out of 10 pizzerias. Heavy pizza sauce is thick tomato paste that has to have lots of water added to it, especially the super heavy. It is sweet and normally mixed with some actual crushed tomatoes. I can tell everyone that the sauce/tomatoes are unfortunately often an afterthought at most places and not where the money is spent. They usually focus more on the cheese and buy one good cheese to mix with a cheap cheese and good flour because you canít play around with the dough quality. The hard cheeses if used are also usually just some cheap supplier parmigiano or romano. Out of all the places Iíve worked and dumpster dove I can only think of a handful of that have used good quality tomatoes and hard cheese. Those are the most neglected ingredients. And the toppings if everything is canned and not fresh. Oh and oil. Oil that goes in dough in a typical place is always cheap soybean or canola oil. Anything that actually calls for oil on the pizza will usually be evoo or pure olive at least.

It makes sense, from basically almost every business perspective it saves on both cost and time to use those ingredients. I think the owner of Scarr's pizza said (paraphrasing): "I thought pizza was dead, the time had passed and the market was done, but then there was a bit of a renaissance that started in Brooklyn" and he goes on to talk about how quality ingredients are what people are looking for now.
The same can kind of be said for the suburbs out here on the Island, a lot of the generic pizza spots are long gone, there's a stress on quality and being different. No one gives a %$# about what pizza costs out here unless its something far and away out of the norm, so everyone gravitates towards quality pizza places.

Offline CIZ28

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #464 on: November 19, 2018, 10:57:44 AM »
I started using butter in my sauce last year and I have to agree, it really pulls the sauce together and brightens the flavor. It makes a pretty notable difference and I take it a step further, using both oil and butter (Half oil and Half butter).

It makes sense, from basically almost every business perspective it saves on both cost and time to use those ingredients. I think the owner of Scarr's pizza said (paraphrasing): "I thought pizza was dead, the time had passed and the market was done, but then there was a bit of a renaissance that started in Brooklyn" and he goes on to talk about how quality ingredients are what people are looking for now.
The same can kind of be said for the suburbs out here on the Island, a lot of the generic pizza spots are long gone, there's a stress on quality and being different. No one gives a %$# about what pizza costs out here unless its something far and away out of the norm, so everyone gravitates towards quality pizza places.

Exactly, and Iím so glad itís been going that way in the last decade or so. Those are the places Iíll give my money to on days off every so often. If I actually feel like being around pizza more and not making my own  lol.
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #465 on: November 19, 2018, 01:38:13 PM »
I am slowly honing in on a preferred sauce recipe for my NY-style pies and started adding fish sauce for the last couple of bakes. About a teaspoon or two of Thai Kitchen brand per strained 28oz can. No detectable fish taste and it gives a nice umami layer.

Since my focus is on nailing a great plain cheese recipe, I've found that more salt is needed than I typically see recommended. Salt and fat. After trying a couple different romanos I found the Locatelli brand and it definitely has the umami salt flavor of pizzas in my youth.

But the surprising star of my sauce trials so far has been the addition of ghee (clarified butter). About a teaspoon or two. It just pulls all the flavors together into a umami bomb. I imagine regular butter would work similarly. Makes sense though because of the combo of salt and fat, and more effectively to me than just oil.

I make a darker, caramelish ghee, like the commercial says, "I put that shtt on everything"!!! God forgive me, I use it before bacon grease or lard most of the time!!! And I agree, great on pizza!!! I've done kind of a fried crust on foil with ghee on the bottom.....decadent!
Jon

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Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #466 on: November 19, 2018, 07:30:39 PM »
I am slowly honing in on a preferred sauce recipe for my NY-style pies and started adding fish sauce for the last couple of bakes. About a teaspoon or two of Thai Kitchen brand per strained 28oz can. No detectable fish taste and it gives a nice umami layer.

Since my focus is on nailing a great plain cheese recipe, I've found that more salt is needed than I typically see recommended. Salt and fat. After trying a couple different romanos I found the Locatelli brand and it definitely has the umami salt flavor of pizzas in my youth.

But the surprising star of my sauce trials so far has been the addition of ghee (clarified butter). About a teaspoon or two. It just pulls all the flavors together into a umami bomb. I imagine regular butter would work similarly. Makes sense though because of the combo of salt and fat, and more effectively to me than just oil.

I like where you're headed. Sauce should have flavor in my view. Fish sauce + romano + ghee  :chef:

What are your preferred herbs? And sugar?


Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #467 on: November 19, 2018, 09:44:10 PM »
What are peoples thoughts on mixing crushed with paste? I'm thinking of trying 50% strained crushed with 50% diluted paste.
Matt

Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #468 on: November 19, 2018, 10:02:19 PM »
What are peoples thoughts on mixing crushed with paste? I'm thinking of trying 50% strained crushed with 50% diluted paste.
I tried it and didn't like it, the paste muddled the flavor. However this was straight paste, I didn't glob it in either, maybe 2 dallops. Go ahead and try because your experience may differ.
It would work quite well in a stromboli where the extra viscosity is needed.
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Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #469 on: November 19, 2018, 10:06:10 PM »
...the paste muddled the flavor...

Yeah, I am concerned it'll be overpowering and that perhaps its all or nothing instead of mixing the 2. But I'm hoping that with the right ratio and thinness it'll just give the crushed tomato some extra oomph.
Matt

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Offline the1mu

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #470 on: November 19, 2018, 10:09:35 PM »
Yeah, I am concerned it'll be overpowering and that perhaps its all or nothing instead of mixing the 2. But I'm hoping that with the right ratio and thinness it'll just give the crushed tomato some extra oomph.

Iíve been using a 75/25 ratio of crushed to paste. Thickens the the sauce nicely without adding water. I think it adds a tad bit of umami without overpowering the freshness of the crushed. Works for me anyway....

Offline Essen1

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #471 on: November 19, 2018, 10:35:55 PM »
I've used it in combination with 7/11 and *that's* too thick to spread, you need to thin it down.

What was your ratio?
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline vtsteve

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #472 on: November 20, 2018, 12:55:09 AM »
What was your ratio?

I was using one can of 7/11 mixed with 1/3 can Saporito super heavy sauce w/basil (and freezing 2 x 1/3 can for later batches).

I'd pre-thin the Saporito to roughly 7/11 consistency, add my pepper & garlic (and Worcestershire, when I remembered  :-D), pour the 7/11 on top and hit it with the stick blender to smooth it out, adding more water as needed.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 01:26:11 AM by vtsteve »
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Offline Wushuliu

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #473 on: November 20, 2018, 12:57:42 AM »
I like where you're headed. Sauce should have flavor in my view. Fish sauce + romano + ghee  :chef:

What are your preferred herbs? And sugar?

With the current recipe the only herbs are oregano and dwarf(?, the small pungent kind) basil. I add a tsp of sugar, cause it tastes good and to approximate sugar content of popular sauces like 7/11 etc. The Bianco DiNapoli I use has lower sugar content. However I'd prefer low sugar intake so will try out reducing or removing altogether.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 01:00:02 AM by Wushuliu »

Offline Dangerous Salumi

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #474 on: November 20, 2018, 09:13:46 PM »
24 pages of cramps and anxiety attacks when the answer is so simple.
Have a Dangerous day!


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Offline Josh123

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #475 on: November 20, 2018, 10:36:06 PM »
What are peoples thoughts on mixing crushed with paste? I'm thinking of trying 50% strained crushed with 50% diluted paste.

Doooo it. For your style of pizza it will work great.

Offline Essen1

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #476 on: November 21, 2018, 12:08:04 AM »
I was using one can of 7/11 mixed with 1/3 can Saporito super heavy sauce w/basil (and freezing 2 x 1/3 can for later batches).

I'd pre-thin the Saporito to roughly 7/11 consistency, add my pepper & garlic (and Worcestershire, when I remembered  :-D), pour the 7/11 on top and hit it with the stick blender to smooth it out, adding more water as needed.

Thanks, Steve,

I use 3 #10 cans of 7/11, one #10 can of Saporito and a #10 of hand-crushed Alta Cucina. I don't see the need to pre-thin the Saporito since the others will lose enough liquid to do so.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline jkb

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #477 on: November 21, 2018, 01:14:12 AM »
Thanks, Steve,

I use 3 #10 cans of 7/11, one #10 can of Saporito and a #10 of hand-crushed Alta Cucina. I don't see the need to pre-thin the Saporito since the others will lose enough liquid to do so.


I wish I made enough pizza to do that.  That's my dream blend.
John

Offline Essen1

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #478 on: November 21, 2018, 01:52:42 PM »

I wish I made enough pizza to do that.  That's my dream blend.

It's a lot of sauce, but it freezes very well in those containers:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N2TADOY/?tag=pmak-20

However, I use that sauce also as a base for pasta sauces, meatball sandwiches, chicken parmigiana, lasagna and in soups and stews. It's pretty versatile. 
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #479 on: November 30, 2018, 06:17:40 PM »
Bleecker Street. Screenshot of the sauce and a video. The sauce actually looks like a thicker version of mine. I also really like the melt on the cheese slice.



Matt

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