Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza

[pbc]

Hmm.. So almost identical to the last time. The dough is super soft and seems to Elastic, two pies broke unfortunately while in the oven as the middle becomes too transparent just by picking it up to put onto the Peel.

Would reducing the hydration make it more doughy?

Tasted great though.

[Pete-zza]

Hmm.. So almost identical to the last time. The dough is super soft and seems to Elastic, two pies broke unfortunately while in the oven as the middle becomes too transparent just by picking it up to put onto the Peel.

Would reducing the hydration make it more doughy?

Tasted great though.

pbc,

For now, I think I would reduce the amount of yeast, to something like 0.20%. The reason is that your dough looks overfermented. That could make the dough overly extensible.

Peter

[pbc]

Will do! Dough was 72 degrees FWIW.

[pbc]

Figures... My KD-8000 won't register weights under about 0.05 ounces. Which is going to make getting the yeast correct impossible.

[texmex]

Figures... My KD-8000 won't register weights under about 0.05 ounces. Which is going to make getting the yeast correct impossible.

Measure and dissolve a known quantity of yeast into a known quantity of water, then use the percentage of yeast water called for in the recipe.  It's explained on here somewhere, but I can't find the details.


"Let’s say you’re making a sponge that calls for 0.2 grams of yeast. That amount would be difficult to measure with even the smallest of measuring spoons. So do something like this: take one gram (1/3 teaspoon) of yeast and disperse it in 100 grams of warm water. Let it stand for a few minutes. Now you have one gram of yeast in 100 grams of water. If you weigh out 20 grams of the yeasted water, it will contain 0.2 grams (or close enough) of yeast. Don’t forget to reduce the amount of additional water you put into the sponge by 20 grams."
https://www.wildyeastblog.com/small-scale-thinking/

[foreplease]

Figures... My KD-8000 won't register weights under about 0.05 ounces. Which is going to make getting the yeast correct impossible.

Your scale can work  if it performs as advertised, for formulas with at least 705 grams of flour at Peter’s recommended 0.2% yeast.
- switch scale display to grams
- 0.05 oz = 1.41 g (lowest # of grams you can measure)
- 1.41 g is 02% of 705 (1.41/0.002 = 1.41)


Good luck.

[Pizza215]

Hello forum members:

Long time lurker, first-time poster. Thanks to everyone for all the pizza tips I've learned along the way. After trial and error, I've had some luck w/ the "Lehman recipe". Making 1 at a time was a hassle tho, so I tried a x4 recipe from feelingfoodish.com. Supposedly it's a scaled up version of the lehman dough but didn't taste/rise/brown like normal. Here's the recipe (tho I did 2.5 sugar & let CF for 55ish hrs rather than my usual 3 days, which seems best for flavor):

 6 cups flour, 28 oz (796 grams); 2 1/4 cups water 17.4 oz (493 grams or mls); 1 tspn (1 tsp) instant dry yeast (3.5 grams); 2.5 tspns (2.5 tsp) salt (15.6 grams); 2 tspns (2 tsp) sugar (7.8 grams);1 tablespoon (1 tbs) olive oil (11.8 ml)

1) Does this look like a good scale up of the regular dough? Was confused by the calculator in terms of adding thickness, residue, etc., and it didn't match this x4 recipe. This x4 was convenient but kicked my food processor's behind, so ideally a x3 recipe would be better. Does anyone happen to have the x2 or x3 already calculated?

2) I'm wondering if I had reversed order & started w/ dry ingredients and then added water to the processor, might that have been better? It bunched up at the top and wrapped around the spinning piece. As someone w/ no baking ability, I've been trying to follow the order of ingredients from this forum, so any feedback would be appreciated.

3) I just noticed my idy expired in Oct '19, which could explain the lack of rise, I suppose, although i used this yeast 2 wks ago and pizzas were good. Since my canister says "refrigerate after opening" but has been sitting in a cabinet, I'm surprised any of my pizzas have worked (and that I'm alive) TBH. Re buying yeast: Are there any advantages to packets vs the glass canister of red star quick rise? 

[Pete-zza]

Pizza215,

Can you tell us what type and brand of flour you used, and also the weight of the dough balls and the size of your pizzas?

And did you use the volume measurements for the ingredients or did you weigh them?

As you prepare your response, you might want to read this post:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2189.msg19291#msg19291

For the record, this is the link to the recipe you used:

https://feelingfoodish.com/the-best-new-york-style-pizza-dough/

Tom’s recipe is discussed at https://www.pizzamaking.com/lehmann-nystyle.php.

Peter

[Pizza215]

Greetings Pete-zza,

The dough balls were 326ish grams x 4. I used KABF, my scale for flour & water, & measuring spoons for the rest. The dough balls were smaller/drier/more elastic than the usual dough, so they were fun to stretch (to abt 11/12ish inches) . I might try this recipe again with new yeast and by adding the dry ingredients to the FP first. The convenience of making a bunch of doughs at the same time is huge for me, so I def need to get this down. I'll also play around with the dough calculator to see if there's a more accurate lehman 14inch dough x3 or x4.

[Pete-zza]

Pizza215,

I calculated the amount of oil in grams and plugged in all of the numbers into the Lehmann dough calculating tool at https://www.pizzamaking.com/dough-calculator.html and got the following:

Flour (100%): Water (61.935%): IDY (0.4397%): Salt (1.9598%): Oil (1.696%): Sugar (0.9799%): Total (167.0104%):

796 g  |  28.08 oz | 1.75 lbs 493 g  |  17.39 oz | 1.09 lbs 3.5 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.16 tsp | 0.39 tbsp 15.6 g | 0.55 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.79 tsp | 0.93 tbsp 13.5 g | 0.48 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp 7.8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.96 tsp | 0.65 tbsp 1329.4 g | 46.89 oz | 2.93 lbs | TF = N/A

Since you used KABF, your hydration value is a workable value, and the other ingredients seem to be in line with a Lehmann NY style dough. You will also see that dividing the dough weight by four give us a single dough ball weight of 332.4 grams. That translates into a thickness factor of [(332.4/28.35)]/(3.14159 x 5.5 x 5.5) = 0.12338 for a 11" pizza, or about 0.10367 for a 12" pizza (and a bit less for a 326-gram dough ball).  The smaller value is more in line with a NY style, and even that is perhaps on the high side. Your actual numbers may vary a bit because I used the conversion factors (weights to volumes) built into the Lehmann dough calculating tool. You can use that tool to scale your recipe to whatever numbers you would like to use. However, you may want to use a thickness factor of about 0.09, along with the number of dough ball you would like to make for the desired pizza size (14"), to see if that helps. You can also round off the baker's percents to simplify matters.

As for your question about packets versus canisters, either should work. Many members who are active pizza makers and need a good source of yeast (like IDY or ADY) purchase large bags and store them in the refrigerator or freezer.

Good luck.

Peter

[Pizza215]

Peter,

"I was told there wouldn't be any math..." lol. I appreciate your help with this and will try your version after I get some new yeast. I respect your ability to crunch numbers and conduct extensive, detailed pizza experiments. Have learned a lot from you and others on this site over the past couple years, so thanks for your contributions.

[Pete-zza]

Pizza215,

Give the Lehmann dough calculating tool a try for the number of dough balls and pizza size you want to use. If you have any problems with the math, let me know and I should be able to help you. I forgot to ask before but how long do you want to cold ferment the dough balls?

Peter

[Pizza215]

Appreciate it. As someone with zero baking experience, it took me way too long just to figure out what "hydration" and "baking percentages" were all about. Anyway, I think three days in the fridge has yielded the best results/taste, so that's my target.

[Pete-zza]

Pizza215,

You might find this sticky thread on bakers percents of interest:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=62093.msg617333#msg617333

You can also find definitions of basic terms in the forum’s Pizza Glossary at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/glossary.html#index_a

There are a few other matters that I perhaps should cover. For example, if you decide to use the Lehmann dough calculating tool, you may want to use a bowl residue compensation value of 1.5%. The bowl residue compensation value is intended to cover minor dough losses during preparation of the dough, such as dough sticking to one's fingers and hands, the mixer attachments, the mixer bowl and work surfaces. Typically, the final dough batch will still weigh more than the decided value so that means you should weigh each dough ball and trim any overage from the desired value. In your case, should you wish to make dough balls for 14" pizzas (the radius R is 7"), using a thickness factor of 0.09, the desired dough ball weight, in grams, is 3.14159 (this is pi) x 7 x 7 x 0.09 x 28.35 = 392.8 grams.

If you plan to use a food processor to make the dough, you will want to use a water temperature that should yield a finished dough temperature of around 75 degrees F. One simple method for doing this is described by member Jonas at Reply 1 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=61501.msg613385#msg613385

Lastly, when you are ready to use the dough balls to make pizza, you will want the internal temperature of the dough ball, as measured by a stick or equivalent thermometer, to be around 60 degrees F or maybe even a bit higher in a home setting (professionals typically use 50-55 degrees F). You may have to play around with this to get the optimum value for your purposes.

Peter

[Pizza215]

Hello, I tried the scaled up recipe above with new yeast and it wasn't bad... but for some reason it didn't have much flavor. Def less than the single pizza lehman recipe. It did rise in the fridge more than with my older (expired) yeast, so that part was good. I let the dough ferment for my usual 3 days. Unf, my FP burned out but it was pretty much formed by that point.

Question: can anyone recommend a FP that can handle the scaled up dough recipe? Or would I be better off with a mixer? If the FP is not a good option, can I knead the same dough recipe by hand or would I have to modify it? I'm not great with baking techniques so I liked the simplicity of dumping everything into the FP.

[lesagemike]

Made this one yesterday in Tom's memory on national pizza day (Which honestly I didn't know when I prepared the dough 48 hrs earlier, it was just my day off work). Was really good, cooked in oven with a cast iron pizza pan on top of my regular pizza stone. Really appreciate all the knowledge he freely shared.

[lesagemike]

here is another photo

[foreplease]

Made this one yesterday in Tom's memory on national pizza day (Which honestly I didn't know when I prepared the dough 48 hrs earlier, it was just my day off work). Was really good, cooked in oven with a cast iron pizza pan on top of my regular pizza stone. Really appreciate all the knowledge he freely shared.

That’s very nice. 👍🏻

[Pie Charles]

Here was my first attempt. need to make a few tweaks.

Flour          100.0%   650   grams   22.9   oz
Water   61.9%   403   grams   14.2   oz
IDY            0.4%   2.9   grams      
Salt            2.0%   12.7   grams      
Oil           1.7%   11.0   grams      
Sugar   1.0%   6.4   grams      

made 3 pizzas, about 11 oz each.

used KAAP flour.
had in fridge for 24 hours.
used baking steel.
oven at 500.
baked 9 min's, cheese was about to burn so took it out even though dough didnt quite get there.

thinking of making following adjustments next time:
heat baking steel for full hour at 550, then bake at 500.
freeze cheese for 15 min's prior to topping and baking.
reduce water to 61%, was a little sticky but not bad.

any advice would be much appreciated. thank you