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Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 1084885 times)

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Online Yuvalvv

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1300 on: September 03, 2023, 06:07:53 PM »
I use an infrared and add the pizza at 550 on the surface. Is that a good temp?

Yes, that should be good. Keep in mind that the temperature at the surface of the steel is not necessarily the temperature at its core, so depending on the thickness of your steel, you should give it a good preheating (mine is 0.315" and I preheat it for 30-35 minutes). Also keep in mind that the heating elements in most home ovens cycle between on/off when the oven reaches temperature, so you have to "time" your launch just when the heating elements turn off, so you won't lose precious heat (there's supposed to be some indicator for when the heating elements are on - a light, temperature sign, etc.)

Offline Quebert

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1301 on: October 31, 2023, 02:05:19 AM »
Pete-Zza, since you're the wizard here let me run this by you. I'm ditching my old formula and will start using Tom's for my pizza night this Sunday. I won't have the flour until Wed so I can't make a test batch to see what I should change. Worst case I'd wing it and I'm sure it would come out decent, but I know you could give me a solid pointer or 2.

KABF
thinking 58-59% hydration
1% oil
1.9% salt
1.5% sugar
.3% IDY
.085 TF

14" 360g'ish balls.

I'll be cooking in a Versa 16, maybe the entire bake on a Lloyd's Hex Disk but I might try 50% on the disk and then finish on the stone. I currently do 4 min on medium temp, then 90 seconds on high with it on the disk the entire time. But this will be a different dough so I'm not sure here. I'll start with making a test pizza or 2 if I need to so I can see. I'll be doing a 3 day CF. Any advice would be lovely sir *nod*

Offline jsaras

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1302 on: October 31, 2023, 10:02:24 AM »
Pete-Zza, since you're the wizard here let me run this by you. I'm ditching my old formula and will start using Tom's for my pizza night this Sunday. I won't have the flour until Wed so I can't make a test batch to see what I should change. Worst case I'd wing it and I'm sure it would come out decent, but I know you could give me a solid pointer or 2.

KABF
thinking 58-59% hydration
1% oil
1.9% salt
1.5% sugar
.3% IDY
.085 TF

14" 360g'ish balls.

I'll be cooking in a Versa 16, maybe the entire bake on a Lloyd's Hex Disk but I might try 50% on the disk and then finish on the stone. I currently do 4 min on medium temp, then 90 seconds on high with it on the disk the entire time. But this will be a different dough so I'm not sure here. I'll start with making a test pizza or 2 if I need to so I can see. I'll be doing a 3 day CF. Any advice would be lovely sir *nod*

Iím not familiar with the performance of that particular oven, but it appears that youíll have more heat than what a home oven puts out.  Given that, I would definitely eliminate the sugar and possibly the oil.  Why are you using the hex disc?  Does the oven torch the bottom?
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1303 on: October 31, 2023, 10:10:51 AM »
Pete-Zza, since you're the wizard here let me run this by you. I'm ditching my old formula and will start using Tom's for my pizza night this Sunday. I won't have the flour until Wed so I can't make a test batch to see what I should change. Worst case I'd wing it and I'm sure it would come out decent, but I know you could give me a solid pointer or 2.

KABF
thinking 58-59% hydration
1% oil
1.9% salt
1.5% sugar
.3% IDY
.085 TF

14" 360g'ish balls.

I'll be cooking in a Versa 16, maybe the entire bake on a Lloyd's Hex Disk but I might try 50% on the disk and then finish on the stone. I currently do 4 min on medium temp, then 90 seconds on high with it on the disk the entire time. But this will be a different dough so I'm not sure here. I'll start with making a test pizza or 2 if I need to so I can see. I'll be doing a 3 day CF. Any advice would be lovely sir *nod*
Quebert,

I am not personally familiar with the Versa oven or Lloyd's Hex Disk, but I believe what Jonas suggested makes sense. And if you ditch the oil, which has a wetting effect, you might be able to increase the hydration by one or two percent since the KABF can handle that.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter

Offline Davydd

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1304 on: October 31, 2023, 11:04:36 AM »
Pete-Zza, since you're the wizard here let me run this by you. I'm ditching my old formula and will start using Tom's for my pizza night this Sunday. I won't have the flour until Wed so I can't make a test batch to see what I should change. Worst case I'd wing it and I'm sure it would come out decent, but I know you could give me a solid pointer or 2.

KABF
thinking 58-59% hydration
1% oil
1.9% salt
1.5% sugar
.3% IDY
.085 TF

14" 360g'ish balls.

I'll be cooking in a Versa 16, maybe the entire bake on a Lloyd's Hex Disk but I might try 50% on the disk and then finish on the stone. I currently do 4 min on medium temp, then 90 seconds on high with it on the disk the entire time. But this will be a different dough so I'm not sure here. I'll start with making a test pizza or 2 if I need to so I can see. I'll be doing a 3 day CF. Any advice would be lovely sir *nod*

I have used Lloyd's disk for the opposite in using high hydration dough that stretches out of shape easier than lower hydration dough. You can place it on a disk and most likely need to re-stretch it into a proper round shape, take more time in dressing it, and then it doesn't stick to a peel with a chance of launching it out of shape. It is similar to working with parchment only it will survive over 450F degrees whether you pull it or not. For New York style and 6 minute bake heat on a stone will transfer quickly through thin metal and you will most likely get a leopard spotting uniformly with the holes. I think you would probably not need it with 58-59% hydration.
Pizza and Pursuing breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches are my food passions.

I have and used a Chefman HomeSlice, Breville Crispy Crust, Pizzaque and Bertello Napoli, and of course a home oven range.

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Offline Quebert

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1305 on: October 31, 2023, 04:08:54 PM »
Iím not familiar with the performance of that particular oven, but it appears that youíll have more heat than what a home oven puts out.  Given that, I would definitely eliminate the sugar and possibly the oil.  Why are you using the hex disc?  Does the oven torch the bottom?

I'm using the disc because I don't think there's any chance I could launch a 16" pizza onto a 16" round stone without screwing it up badly.   I mistakingly put 14" but I'll be making 16" pizzas. I use the disk as a crutch for my lack of abilities lol. My logic, which is just my brain assuming I know what I know. I use sugar because the entire bake is on a disk, which means the bottom won't cook as much and could use some sugar to get better browning. I don't know if this is accurate or not, but in my head it makes sense.  Maybe I'll try to learn how to launch on the stone one day.


Quebert,

I am not personally familiar with the Versa oven or Lloyd's Hex Disk, but I believe what Jonas suggested makes sense. And if you ditch the oil, which has a wetting effect, you might be able to increase the hydration by one or two percent since the KABF can handle that.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter

Thanks, I've never used KABF for pizzas, I've been using First Street Hi-Gluten for a year now, but they're out of it so I thought this would be the best thing to try. And I'll go for a 60-61% with no oil or sugar and report back.   Pretty sure the oven runs around 650f'ish on medium but I don't remember 100% and I haven't used an IR gun in 6 months.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 08:55:56 PM by Quebert »

Offline Quebert

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1306 on: November 07, 2023, 11:21:20 PM »
Quebert,

I am not personally familiar with the Versa oven or Lloyd's Hex Disk, but I believe what Jonas suggested makes sense. And if you ditch the oil, which has a wetting effect, you might be able to increase the hydration by one or two percent since the KABF can handle that.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter

I went with 60% and no sugar or oil and the 4 I made turned out awesome,  and so easy to make. Not that the other dough was difficult to make. But no more Poolish, I don't have to worry about olive oil or sugar and I don't use Semolina except for dusting.   This recipe's pretty similar to one I used to make, but the slightly different %'s made a big difference, it came out much better than that one ever did. I did pump up the yeast because I only had 2 days to fridge it. I suspect when I get IDY (used ADY) and go a full 72 hours CF it'll be a lot better. . I hand-kneeded the dough for about 20 minutes, and after a 2 hour RT rest, I balled it. It was a little difficult to work with and the balls ended up looking a bit rough and I wasn't sure if they'd turn out. But after a day in the fridge they were a lot smoother and looked great and by 48 hours they looked about spot on.

Thank you for your help.

I did forget to take a pic of the bottom, but I asked a regular and he said the bottom was cooked how he likes it, and he's super super picky so I know it was good.  I did the entire bake on the Hex Disk for 5 1/2 minutes.

I'm definitely going to stick with this recipe. 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2023, 09:23:29 AM by Pete-zza »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1307 on: November 08, 2023, 11:27:48 AM »
Quebert,

I'm glad things worked out well for you. Your pizza does look very tasty indeed.

I might add that Tom Lehmann often said that sugar could be used whenever the dough was to cold ferment for about two to three days. That was to ensure that the yeast has enough sugar to feed on and also to create byproducts of fermentation that lead to increased crust browning.

Peter

Offline Davydd

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1308 on: November 08, 2023, 12:05:50 PM »
I've read two posts in this forum this past day where Quebert here in his post above and someone else kneaded dough for 20 minutes. I looked at all my recipes from several sources and it says to knead from about 5 to 10 minutes tops to form a smooth ball. I usually hand knead closer to 5 minutes. I copied Tom Lehman's recipe for a New York pizza dough and it gave a varied speed mixer dough saying about 10 minutes total and includes the kneading I assume because it didn't say to after.  How much kneading is appropriate or needed and what are the results or pitfalls of too little or too much?
Pizza and Pursuing breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches are my food passions.

I have and used a Chefman HomeSlice, Breville Crispy Crust, Pizzaque and Bertello Napoli, and of course a home oven range.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1309 on: November 08, 2023, 06:09:58 PM »
Davydd,

I assume that the recipe you used as a starting recipe is the one that Tom created. It is shown at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/lehmann-nystyle.php

Although Tomís recipe most likely came out of his experience on the professional side of pizza dough making, I think it helps nonetheless to see how Tom determined when a dough was properly kneaded, that is, not too little or not too much. You can actually see Tom go through this exercise in the second video, starting at about 2:36, at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=60152.0

Tomís advocacy was to produce a dough that combines initially physically strengthening the dough but also relying on biochemical gluten development. You can read a bit more on these aspects by reading the terms GLUTEN and BIOCHEMICAL GLUTEN DEVELOPMENT in the forumís Pizza Glossary at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/glossary.html#index_a

Peter


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Offline Davydd

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1310 on: November 08, 2023, 06:50:52 PM »
Peter,

Thanks. I haven't seen those videos. I was citing the Lehman recipe you referenced in that link.
Pizza and Pursuing breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches are my food passions.

I have and used a Chefman HomeSlice, Breville Crispy Crust, Pizzaque and Bertello Napoli, and of course a home oven range.

Offline Mikeylikezit

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1311 on: January 06, 2024, 07:40:54 PM »
This will be my first batch of dough in our yet to open pizzeria, and first time using a large dough mixer as well, I have a few soft openings this week so I made a large batch using Tom's 25lbs formula.

After 24hrs I balled the dough and threw it the fridge to retard over night, excited to try them out tomorrow.


Offline Mikeylikezit

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1312 on: January 06, 2024, 07:48:24 PM »
 I asked a regular and he said the bottom was cooked how he likes it, and he's super super picky so I know it was good.

That's a great looking pie Quebert!

Offline Mikeylikezit

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1313 on: January 07, 2024, 09:39:24 PM »
Heres a few pics of My results using Tom's 25lbs NY Formula. The dough had a great sourdough flavor and I  was happy with the crispness and browning, but I overmixed the dough in the Hobart, and it was a.little tight opening the balls. Lesson learned.

Offline whatthedeuce

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1314 on: January 21, 2024, 01:52:07 PM »
Made some NY style pizza last night, it was delicious! Couldn't have done it without this forum!

KABF (100%)   1,059.9g          
Water(63%)   667.7g          
Instant Dry Yeast (0.4%)   4.2g
Regular/Fine Sea Salt (2%)   21.2g      
Sugar (2%)   21.2g   
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2%)   21.2g      
Total (169.4%, TF=0.1)   1,795.5g          
Single Ball (3 balls total)   598.5g

Recipe was based on Barbara11's recipe which was based on the original Tom recipe.

Barbara11 recipe: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg624008#msg624008
Original Tom recipe: https://www.pizzamaking.com/lehmann-nystyle.php

Took Pete-zza's future recommendations for Barabara11 into account: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg624014#msg624014

Love this sauce recipe, second time using it: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.0

I don't have a stand mixer so my hands became the mixer  ;D. I also bloomed the IDY in 90F water which I know isn't needed but wanted to try it out. After blooming, tossed in the sugar, mixed thoroughly then added the remainder of the ingredients. Tossed in the fridge, covered (pic 1). 5 hours later it had risen a lot, really impressed  (pic2) 18 hours later, it had risen a lot, so I punched it down, stretched a few times and tossed it back in the fridge. Following day, took it out 3 hours prior to baking, portioned into three balls, let them hang out covered in a warm place to proof some more (pic 3). Baking time, they had risen a decent amount, wife was impressed. Baked them at 500F in the center rack, bottom was done but top wasn't, so had to turn on the broiler. Second time around the broiler got the best of me (pic 5). Family loved it, I loved it. it was crispy and chewy. Next time around I'll dial the salt to 2.5%, felt like the dough needed a bit more salt.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 01:54:00 PM by whatthedeuce »

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Offline foreplease

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1315 on: January 21, 2024, 02:17:43 PM »
That is a nicely written post, WTDeuce. Your pizzas look excellent. Welcome to the forum.
-Tony

Offline kori

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1316 on: January 21, 2024, 02:56:21 PM »
 ^^^

I like that recpe, not too high in sugar and oil.
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Offline foreplease

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1317 on: January 21, 2024, 03:22:31 PM »
^^^

I like that recpe, not too high in sugar and oil.
I started a similar one this morning before seeing his post. Itís for tonight. It has been difficult to plan meals here too far in advance. Things have just been busy with lots of last minute changes. Not for me, for once. :)
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