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Author Topic: "The Intermittent Ball" technique  (Read 2456 times)

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Offline fazzari

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"The Intermittent Ball" technique
« on: November 23, 2019, 05:07:25 PM »
I've been on a continuous search for the easiest, cleanest way to make excellent pizza in a home oven.  My idea, might be different than others....I prefer a nicely browned pizza, with an eggshell thin bottom crust, which is crispy.  Since I last posted my techniques, I've come up with a few different thoughts and ideas.
I have found that balling dough closer to bake time seems to be one of the processes that needs to be employed.  I have found that if one wants to make dough to be used within 48 hours, a poolish is the simplest way to get added flavor....but the addition of poolish seems to slow down the action of dough the longer it sets after 48 hours.  I've also toyed with the percentages of yeast used...and have found that when I lower the amount of yeast, I get a less responsive dough the longer it sits.
I have also stripped out all of the unneeded steps to make this a very simple  elegant method of making excellent pizza.

The recipe:
flour     100%       I used All Trumps
water      64%
yeast         .5%
salt           2.5%
olive oil     2%

To my Kitchen Aid bowl I added all ingredients except the oil.  Mixed on speed 1 for 1 minute (a dough ball had formed).  Added the oil and mixed on speed 2 for 4 minutes.  Placed the dough in a large enough "unoiled". bowl for expansion, wrapped in a plastic bag and refrigerated.  The dough came off the mixer at 74 degrees.  I was shooting for 80 degrees but misjudged the friction factor, and was using an imprecise thermometer

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2019, 05:15:23 PM »
The first pizza was 61 hours old at baked time.  I cut out a 10 ounce piece of dough, from the original mass ( I had mixed a 41 ounce dough), I degassed it and balled it placed it an oiled container and put in the fridge.  This was done 17 hours prior to bake.  This was baked at work in a deck oven, about 575 degrees.

John

Offline nick57

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2019, 05:16:48 PM »
 Are you placing the dough in a bowl and not shaping it into a ball till later? If so, how long before opening the ball do you shape the dough into a ball?

Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2019, 05:19:56 PM »
The second dough was 86 hours old at bake time.  A 10 ounce piece of dough was cut from the original mass, degassed, balled and placed in a container and refrigerated.  This was done 19 hours prior to bake.  This one was baked in my home oven, as high as it would go (550 degrees, but I can get the tiles hotter than that).

John

Offline foreplease

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2019, 12:40:19 AM »
I have read many nice comments about your style and results over the past 12-18 months. I am going to read through some of your old posts to determine how much of a departure this experiment was for you. Thanks for  posting your ideas, work, and results.
-Tony

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Offline Irishboy

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2019, 01:16:57 AM »
Always a big fan

I thought this was a technique that you've always practice?

Actually now that I think about it you used to do stretch and fold, did you ditch it?

Josh

Offline foreplease

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2019, 01:24:00 AM »
Always a big fan

I thought this was a technique that you've always practice?

Actually now that I think about it you used to do stretch and fold, did you ditch it?
No, I still do some of that (S&F) with certain doughs. I was surprised Fazzari took it as far as window-paning, and that it turned out to his liking afterward. It does look good though. I’m kind of a minimalist, now, when it comes to mixing and kneading if an extended ferment is planned.
-Tony

Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2019, 02:09:12 AM »
Are you placing the dough in a bowl and not shaping it into a ball till later? If so, how long before opening the ball do you shape the dough into a ball?

I kind of wrote this up quickly.  But, to be clear, in this exercise after mixing 41 ounces of dough, I place the whole piece in a bowl in the fridge.  I am making 4 different 10 ounce pizzas on different days, and so if you read the info on each pizza, it will tell you how old the dough is and when it was scaled and balled.

I have read many nice comments about your style and results over the past 12-18 months. I am going to read through some of your old posts to determine how much of a departure this experiment was for you. Thanks for  posting your ideas, work, and results.

I can save you the time real quickly.  I've eliminated the stretch and fold sequences which I used after using the mixer.  This has done 2 things: 1) it cuts out all of the wait time between stretch and folds and 2) it eliminates any oil that was used on the pan surface.  By placing the whole piece of dough in an "unoiled" container, scaling and balling the dough is a snap, as the dough is sticky and balls up extremely easily.  This eliminates any thin spots from not getting the ball closed.
So now, I can very easily make my dough and clean up in just around 10 minutes.

john

Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2019, 02:13:31 AM »
The third dough was 96 hours old.  It was balled 15 hours prior to bake.  I baked this one at work in a deck oven.

John


Offline foreplease

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2019, 10:12:51 AM »
No, I still do some of that (S&F) with certain doughs. I was surprised Fazzari took it as far as window-paning, and that it turned out to his liking afterward. It does look good though. I’m kind of a minimalist, now, when it comes to mixing and kneading if an extended ferment is planned.
I had this right and then edited it to s ay “Fazzari” where I had originally typed “you.” Sorry for the confusion. I had 2 windows open and was jumping back and forth trying to keep it straight. I should have waited until morning to respond. Technically, I guess it was morning.  ::)  This is your post about window-paning I had in mind. I agree it worked out well, but I was surprised.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55083.msg601461#msg601461
-Tony

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Offline Irishboy

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2019, 11:35:18 AM »
Last night I did a pizza that I mixed for 20 minutes it was window pane I balled about 19 hours before bake, the pizza turned out excellent with a nice egg shell crust very very creamy center and that was in a high temperature oven with a deck of 780 degrees with a bake time around 1 minute
I never thought I would get the eggshell in that type of temperature with that fast of a cook
Josh

Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2019, 05:42:42 PM »
Last night I did a pizza that I mixed for 20 minutes it was window pane I balled about 19 hours before bake, the pizza turned out excellent with a nice egg shell crust very very creamy center and that was in a high temperature oven with a deck of 780 degrees with a bake time around 1 minute
I never thought I would get the eggshell in that type of temperature with that fast of a cook
I've never tried one that hot before!!

Here's the last pizza from this exercise:  This one is 108 hours old, and was balled 15 hours prior to bake, and was cooked in my home oven.

John

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2019, 07:33:07 PM »


   Gorgeous pizza John... just beautiful!!   :drool::chef:
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Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 11:57:30 AM »
Thanks Bob!  They were also delicious and simply as easy as pie to make

john

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 10:08:41 PM »
Any warm up time before baking or straight from cooler to oven?

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Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2019, 06:25:58 PM »
Anthony
These particular doughs were ready to go after 2.5 hours out of refrigeration

john

Offline nick57

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2019, 06:14:31 PM »
 I tried this method using your Modified Reinhart  recipe. It worked very well. I did a poolish and a 48 hour CF. Balled the dough 20 hours prior to bake. I could not tell any difference in the crust. I have tried many different NY style recipes, but your Modified Reinhart is my go to. A new pizza place open in town and I fell in love with the crust. Decided to see if I could replicate it. I came up with a formula and then checked to see if anyone was doing something close. I about fell over when I found yours. They were almost the same. Could not believe that using what I have learned over the years on the forum that my gut feeling was right. A big thanks to you for posting your Modified Reinhart recipe. It was just what I had been looking for. thanks again, Nick.

Offline Irishboy

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2019, 06:29:16 PM »
John I'm curious to hear what your opinion is on your favorite amount of day's of fermentation? After a certain number do you feel you start getting a lower quality product
Josh

Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2019, 01:30:36 PM »
I tried this method using your Modified Reinhart  recipe. It worked very well. I did a poolish and a 48 hour CF. Balled the dough 20 hours prior to bake. I could not tell any difference in the crust. I have tried many different NY style recipes, but your Modified Reinhart is my go to. A new pizza place open in town and I fell in love with the crust. Decided to see if I could replicate it. I came up with a formula and then checked to see if anyone was doing something close. I about fell over when I found yours. They were almost the same. Could not believe that using what I have learned over the years on the forum that my gut feeling was right. A big thanks to you for posting your Modified Reinhart recipe. It was just what I had been looking for. thanks again, Nick.

Always nice to get feedback Nick!!  Thank you
John

Offline fazzari

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Re: "The Intermittent Ball" technique
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2019, 01:34:01 PM »
John I'm curious to hear what your opinion is on your favorite amount of day's of fermentation? After a certain number do you feel you start getting a lower quality product
You know I've never specifically experimented on this question.  I just usually make enough dough for 4 or 5 continuous days.  I enjoy them all, but would say the 3rd dough, probably 4 days old was ideal most of the time.....that's just a guess at this time

john

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