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Author Topic: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment  (Read 1356 times)

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Offline Sapp

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Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« on: January 14, 2021, 07:42:39 PM »
Thanks Will and Pete for your earlier advice.

I used 110% of my mediocre dough handling skills to save the over fermented doughs. I stopped short of 18 inches for fear of tearing. Willís shared video was quite helpful. The pizza tasted quite good. It was thin, airy and crispy but more like Pizza Tonda than a foldable NY slice. I cooked the third pie a minute less and it had some decent pliability. It was my first time with the screens and they worked quite fine even with the slack, sticky dough. Bottom line...  Really good taste a d texture just not exactly the one I was going for.

Next tests will reduce the autolyse time and RT bulk fermentation. Maybe just bulk fermentation in the wine cellar and ball later. Ultimately, I want to take the whole grain from 10-20% and try SD. Lastly, I will try a bake in the WFO in the 600ís.

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes Second Experiment... Thoughts Welcomed
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2021, 08:07:54 PM »
Tried to maintain Willís recipe but ran out of All Trumps so substituted about 300g of Saccorossa but maintained 5% Farro Integrale and 5% WWW. Increased my IDY from .5 to 1.75g but did the 44 hours at 40 degrees instead of 55 and then reballed and 4 hour RT. Dough was still a little slack and sticky but not unmanageable. Yeast and fermentation time was within parameters of CY Chart.??

The pizza stretched really well and in fact 2 of 4 doughs stretched beyond 18Ē. Still playing with cook time +/- one minute is the difference between thin and crispy and thin and foldable. Tastes great. If anybody remembers a pizza place named Corkyís in East Hartford from the early 90ís, it was like that!

Next experiment is to up my whole grain from 10 to 20% and use my SD starter and 48 hour 55 degree fermentation. It was Gumbawillís thread about NY, SD and whole grain that got me off my NP phase and into a New York State of Mind.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 08:18:35 PM by Sapp »

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2021, 08:23:08 PM »
Nice! You were near East Hartford in the early 90s? I was there, but don't know Corky's. We mainly had Greek style and Papa Gino's.

Matt

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2021, 08:37:10 PM »
They had a coal fired oven and were doing something that I guess I would classify as New Haveníish but it wasREALLY good. 30 year old food memories are not always reliable as our palates evolve though. I tried researching what happened to them and there is somebody operating in Texas claiming to have directly descended from the original business but the website/story seemed a little sketchy.

Love this Forum though. Plenty of inspiration to keep improving and trying new things and the open sharing of tricks and techniques.

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2021, 10:31:08 PM »
This weeks experiments compared IDY to SD. I dropped the sugar from Willís recipe I had been more or less following but doubled the Diastatic Malt to better manage fermentation. I think I liked the sugar. Also started to increase the whole grain percentage but it hasnít changed the density of the finished product. The inspiration from Will was to re-create a sourdough, whole grain NY style pizza. The slight tang came through in the SD pies and was an enjoyable complexity but thatís the taste of my NP pies also so I think I will keep my NY more traditional with CY.

My guests loved the sauce made from the 7/11 crushed tomatoes. The Grande cheese kept it traditional also.

Recipes are attached

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Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2021, 10:52:50 PM »
Made a couple standard cheese both IDY and SD, broccoli rabe with provolone, homemade turkey sausage and peppers, tomato and garlic, maitake mushrooms-spinach-pine nuts-aged Asiago

Past efforts were with a screen on a pizza steel. This week was screen on fibramet stone.

The SD took 10 minutes to cook while the IDY dough took 8 despite same size dough ball and hydration?? Maybe the  higher % of whole grain?

Also, need to improve dough management. I had a three hour spread between pizza 1 and pizza 8 in a very warm kitchen. I had my maturation and fermentation dialed in for the first few pizzas, particularly the SD because it is the same process and %/temperature as my NP just with oil and malt added and bigger dough balls

Enough experiments, think I know what I like best and have incorporated the All Trumps, Grande and Stanislaus to meet the monitors of true NY style pizza.

Advice to improve always welcome


Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2021, 09:34:45 PM »
Made six pies tonight. Four were 85% All Trumps and15% whole grains two were sourdough and 30% whole grain. I followed the general Gumbawill formula but presoak the whole grains in excess water before mixing with the other flour for a combined autolyse period as per ĎWholywheatísĒ NP technique. It made a big difference as my farro Integrale doughs are usually more sticky. Also used 7/11 tomatoes and Grande PSLM mozzarella-provolone blend, dusting of red cow parmigiana reggiano.

Some sample pies include basic cheese and a tomato, garlic, hot pepper and blue fin chutoro.

Missing is a broccoli rabe and homemade Turkey fennel sausage and Ezzo  pepperoni

Cooked in a screen on top of a steel @ 550 for nine minutes. My daughter said it tasted like a cross between Scarís and Joeís but, of course, she still hasnít fully gotten her sense of taste back since having COVID.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2021, 04:27:46 PM »
Hi Sapp, I saw on another thread you mentioned having a 19" stone. Can you tell me what oven you have? I'm currently investigating ovens for an upcoming kitchen renovation and I'm eager to find one deep enough for big pies. Thanks!
Matt

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2021, 04:44:52 PM »
Yes, itís just a Monogram (formerly owned by GE). Itís the 48 inch range with 6 burners and a griddle or grill. You get the one over large oven and a smaller oven perfect for casserole dishes while doing something in main oven. The reason I chose it was two fold. The first is I had two lemons from Thermador so they eventually fully reimbursed me. The second is that I prefer to have ALL my burners have high power and a good low simmer as opposed to juggling pots all over the range like some high end brands make you do. The Monogram has 18,000 BTU on every burner and great low simmer. You can get higher btuís but not across the board.

The Thermador was the best range I ever had. All six burners had 22,000 btuís and a 90 degree low simmer. The small oven had a steam function that could be helpful for bread baking. The only problem was that it didnít work. The electronics would keep crapping out . They replaced it once and bought it back the second time.

19Ē gives you a an inch or two front and back in my oven.

Hope that helps

Offline GumbaWill

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2021, 06:24:25 PM »

Some sample pies include basic cheese and a tomato, garlic, hot pepper and blue fin chutoro.

Missing is a broccoli rabe and homemade Turkey fennel sausage and Ezzo  pepperoni

Cooked in a screen on top of a steel @ 550 for nine minutes. My daughter said it tasted like a cross between Scarís and Joeís but, of course, she still hasnít fully gotten her sense of taste back since having COVID.

Wow, nice! I am honored to have been the inspiration for such an epic bake! Surely now my legacy is cemented in the pizza club record! Smile...

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Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2021, 08:40:38 PM »
You should be the next Dough Doctor, at least the King of NY.

Kidding aside, your thread inspired and educated me. It took four experimental variations from your formula and process to achieve two repeatable and reliable doughs that have modest whole grain content, one sourdough and one not, great texture and tastes great. I had to play with fermentation time and temps a little because of the sugar and malt but the final dough taste benefits from both. The pizza is even better reheated in a toaster oven the next day!

I havenít yet found the time to venture into your extraordinary looking baguette world yet but did make a really
50% whole wheat loaf with 50% biga.

So Will, Iím happy with my NY, happy with one of my NPís with more interesting variations to try, happy with my thin crust Roman but NOT happy with my sheet pan al taglio Roman yet. You got any game there?😊

Offline GumbaWill

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2021, 04:44:07 AM »


So Will, Iím happy with my NY, happy with one of my NPís with more interesting variations to try, happy with my thin crust Roman but NOT happy with my sheet pan al taglio Roman yet. You got any game there?😊

My only game so far is N.Y. Street slice. Someday I want to perfect my own version of an N.Y./Brooklyn Sicilian square. However, my wife is not crazy about a lot of crust, which makes it hard to want to experiment.

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2021, 08:54:26 PM »
Finally achieving repeatable and reliable results after experimenting my way to choosing a favorite dough flavor and texture for my NY style. Itís about 20% whole grain (30% when I go SD) which adds to the flavor but doesnít effect the texture. My oven is just a large Monogram but cooks the pies  dry evenly in 8-9 minutes depending on the toppings at 550 without having to rotate or broil. I do use an 18Ē screen on top of steel as per Will of Gumbawill fame. I have a 22Ē peel and a 19Ē fibramet stone but why fool around perfectly loading the dough when the screen makes it so easy and cooks fantastic?

I did try to cook two pies at once... one on a steel, one on the stone and both on screens. I was trying to speed up delivery to hungry guests. It worked but wasnít as perfect a cook so I went back to just the steel and took the stone out.

I had been using 615-625g balls for an 18Ē pie but I am now stretching those to 20Ē so I am going to try 575g next time

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2021, 06:16:34 PM »
Off topic, but my wife would kill me if I didn't ask you for a picture showing more of your blue kitchen island. She's close to convincing me to go blue. Your color would match my leather couches  :chef:

Matt

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2021, 07:29:31 PM »
The color combo is great but you have to remember that we have a beach house so blue and white is a recurring nautical theme. I will try to DM some pictures to you. If that doesnít work, then I will just post here.

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Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2021, 07:45:57 PM »
Despite my wife and I having built eight houses together and this being our final (maybe), we still rethink choices. We decided to move away from granite on the countertops because it is so over done. I donít like using the manufactured stone, so we went with marble. I will be rehoning someday... looks great but everything etches it.

The cabinets are wonderfully built by an Amish cabinet maker. Given the bright white and this particular shade of blue, they used an acrylic epoxy like paint. It has the benefit of being very water proof and easy to clean but because of its hardness, it Chipís easily. Hope Iím not over sharing.

The light is not good enough to see the color reliably. I will take a picture in the daylight. It looks more accurate if can you expand the picture

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2021, 07:57:16 PM »
BTW, Iím in your wifeís decorating camp. You have to go two tone in the kitchen. All white or all wood stained is too monochrome. The style 10-20 years ago was mix wood and white. More recently it is to match white with a color. Of course, one should always do what they like because eventually everything comes back into style

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2021, 08:08:49 PM »
Many thanks for all this! Its very helpful, and we have very similar tastes.

I hear you about the durability. For counter I plan to review quartzite and white granite. Basically looking for something somewhat similar to the look of marble, but more durable. I'm not a fan of engineered quartz.

The cabinet durability is going to annoying me, and I had already warned my wife about it. We're somewhat spoiled by the kitchen that came with our house. The cabinets are extremely durable and probably look similar to when they were new. Unfortunately that was likely the early 90s so my wife hates the look.

Agree about the 2 tone. All white will be a bit much I think. We have grey woodwork that we could try to match...but my wife loves blue and so do I, so there's a good chance we'll settle there.

Matt

Offline Sapp

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2021, 08:13:53 PM »
If I could have found a ďwhite ď granite, I would have done it. Have you though about cement countertops? If you find a good contractor, they can customize the gloss, the color, embed blue glass or whatever for more texture and color combos. We have it outside around our quasi kitchen in the backyard. It is very durable.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Gumbawill Wannabes First Experiment
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2021, 08:34:34 PM »
Hadn't considered cement, but trust your judgment and experience, so I'll check it out.

Matt

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