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Author Topic: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside  (Read 1562 times)

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Offline ThatsDrew99

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2022, 12:30:36 AM »
Is there a reason you are putting the poolish in the fridge? Are you putting it immediately in the fridge after you make it or are you talking about the dough with poolish added goes in the fridge for a cold fermentation?

A poolish should be left out at room temp. Usually you make it the night before, leave out, and use the next day.

Im new to pizza making, just following the recipe in the video I posted. Once he makes the poolish he says to leave it out for 1 hour at room temp then put it in the fridge for 16-24h.

He doesnt state why in the video but my understanding was that if you slow down the fermentation a little bit by putting it in the fridge it gives the other processes a chance to happen before all the fermentation does and you get better flavor this way.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 12:51:25 AM by ThatsDrew99 »

Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2022, 03:14:56 PM »
Im new to pizza making, just following the recipe in the video I posted. Once he makes the poolish he says to leave it out for 1 hour at room temp then put it in the fridge for 16-24h.

He doesnt state why in the video but my understanding was that if you slow down the fermentation a little bit by putting it in the fridge it gives the other processes a chance to happen before all the fermentation does and you get better flavor this way.

We know from beer brewing that the yeast that eats and breeds slower produces a more pleasant flavor, generally speaking, with the exception of outlier yeasts like those used for saisons and steam beers. And stunts like "banana bread" beers where you pick a yeast that produces a banana-like flavor when fermented too hot.

Possible exception of champagne yeasts like ec-1118 that go like mad even at 60f. But that's a pretty special yeast - it even produces a substance that interferes with the lifecycle of competing yeasts.
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2022, 06:04:23 PM »
However what I also wanted to mention was that after I put the poolish in the fridge for 24h, the next day when I went to take it out and make the dough, I noticed around the edges of the container, the poolish was getting hard/freezing because I had it on the top shelf really close to the roof of the refrigerator. I have now learned that being too cold may have caused the fermentation to slow down too much and not give me what I wanted in terms of the rise from the crust. At the time I didnt think it would matter.

The first two pizzas I made after leaving polish for 24h, letting it get to room temp, making dough, wait 2 hours room temp. This dough had more rise to the crust.

The second two which were made by following the same process but leaving in the fridge for an additional 24h until I could make them the next night, had very little.
Personally, I reckon your dough was way under fermented.
Scanning your descriptions of your process, in this and other threads, it looks like it has been too cold all the way through.

I vote you start with a more basic approach.
Start with 600g of warm water, about 95F, completely dissolve 25g of salt in it, add 3g of IDY yeast and stir vigorously, then mix in 1000g flour.
Knead and fold into a smooth doughball, lightly oil your big mixing bowl, put the dough back in, cover with cling film, and don't go anywhere near the fridge unless the dough starts trying to crawl out onto the counter under its own steam.
Ball up about 4 hours before use.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 06:24:38 PM by wotavidone »
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2022, 06:06:35 PM »
And stunts like "banana bread" beers where you pick a yeast that produces a banana-like flavor when fermented too hot.
When I am running the world, people who make fruit flavoured "beers" will serve time in the Gulags.
Mick

Offline kori

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2022, 06:45:07 PM »
Personally, I reckon your dough was way under fermented.
Scanning your descriptions of your process, in this and other threads, it looks like it has been too cold all the way through.

I vote you start with a more basic approach.
Start with 600g of warm water, about 95F, completely dissolve 25g of salt in it, add 3g of IDY yeast and stir vigorously, then mix in 1000g flour.
Knead and fold into a smooth doughball, lightly oil your big mixing bowl, put the dough back in, cover with cling film, and don't go anywhere near the fridge unless the dough starts trying to crawl out onto the counter under its own steam.
Ball up about 4 hours before use.
^^^ I couldn't agree more, I've also been reading through your posts and it seems you are quite new to pizza making, I would put the recipe you are attempting aside for the time being, working with poolish isn't the easiest to accomplish good results. Use a simpler recipe like wotavidone has provided, work with it for a while so you are getting good results, you can tweak it after a while if you like, go back to the poolish recipe at a later date. That's my 2 cents!
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Offline jsaras

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2022, 07:09:13 PM »
When I am running the world, people who make fruit flavoured "beers" will serve time in the Gulags.
People have been unceremonially executed for lesser crimes
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2022, 07:36:57 PM »
When I am running the world, people who make fruit flavoured "beers" will serve time in the Gulags.

hehe. I dunno man, I like some of them. there's a good raspberry ale brewed locally. A lot of hops produce citrus flavors. Some even berry flavors. And then there's the one someone described as being "like 10 cats pissing on a pine tree on a 110 degree day". Chemist friend assures me that the gamut of common plant flavors is largely the result of a single additive cycle, and how many times that cycle is run before the plant stops. The cat piss smell being in the same group as the odor of peaches.

"banana bread" beers are made like a brown ale, with some biscuit malt i think for flavor, walnut or pecan flavoring, and fermented hot with a witbier style yeast (pretty sure that's what i remember), which produces a banana-like acetate at high fermentation temperatures. And sometimes with mashed banana in the fermenter too.

There really does seem to be a "rule 34" corollary for homebrewing.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 07:41:16 PM by Timpanogos Slim »
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2022, 10:34:01 PM »
hehe. I dunno man, I like some of them. there's a good raspberry ale brewed locally. A lot of hops produce citrus flavors. Some even berry flavors. And then there's the one someone described as being "like 10 cats pissing on a pine tree on a 110 degree day". Chemist friend assures me that the gamut of common plant flavors is largely the result of a single additive cycle, and how many times that cycle is run before the plant stops. The cat piss smell being in the same group as the odor of peaches.

"banana bread" beers are made like a brown ale, with some biscuit malt i think for flavor, walnut or pecan flavoring, and fermented hot with a witbier style yeast (pretty sure that's what i remember), which produces a banana-like acetate at high fermentation temperatures. And sometimes with mashed banana in the fermenter too.

There really does seem to be a "rule 34" corollary for homebrewing.
Just - NO!
 :-D

But seriously, you surely cannot enjoy beer that tastes of fruit.
Surely. :'(

Mick

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2022, 11:01:03 PM »
The plethora of flavored beers, seltzers, etc is the new generation of wine coolers. Remember Bartles and Jaymes or Zima from the 80s......
Jon

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Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2022, 11:11:52 PM »
Just - NO!
 :-D

But seriously, you surely cannot enjoy beer that tastes of fruit.
Surely. :'(

Legions upon legions of hipsters love IPAs that taste of grapefruit strictly because of the hops.

But, do you know why the hipster burned the roof of his mouth with pizza?
Pepperoni is just American chorizo.
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2022, 05:19:37 AM »
Legions upon legions of hipsters love IPAs that taste of grapefruit strictly because of the hops.

But, do you know why the hipster burned the roof of his mouth with pizza?
Bloody hipsters!  :-D They got a lot to answer for.
Don't mention 'em to the missus, she always wants to take the scissors to the man bun!  ;D

But I give in - as we say here in Oz, I'll play your funny games - why did the hipster burn his mouth with pizza? :-D
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2022, 05:23:33 AM »
Remember Bartles and Jaymes or Zima from the 80s......
Who??? :P
Mick

Offline Anton1

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2022, 06:38:37 AM »
Yet a fully fermented poolish holds just fine at fridge temps. Peter has cited the info (Rosada? Slomin? And I very often wait 2 days, sometimes 3 before final mix. Just timing issue, not because poolish is better later..but it's also not worse.

 Yes. But is the poolish fully fermented before being put in the fridge?

The poolish article by Didier Rosada states, "Traditionally, the size of the poolish was calculated based on the water involved in the total formula. Bakers could use from 20 to 80% of the water to prepare the poolish. The poolish was then elaborated using the same amount of flour as water (hydration of 100%, providing a liquid consistency); no salt is usually incorporated in the poolish.  It is important to note that the poolish is allowed to ferment at room temperature; therefore, the quantity of yeast is calculated depending on the fermentation time of the poolish.  Despite the fact that it is difficult to give precise numbers, chart A provides some guidelines to calculate the quantity of yeast to use in the poolish."

The bold type is my entry.

The full text is shown on Pete-zza's reply #6 here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=58038.msg582300#msg582300

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Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2022, 12:38:00 PM »
Bloody hipsters!  :-D They got a lot to answer for.
Don't mention 'em to the missus, she always wants to take the scissors to the man bun!  ;D

But I give in - as we say here in Oz, I'll play your funny games - why did the hipster burn his mouth with pizza? :-D

He ate it before it was cool.
Pepperoni is just American chorizo.
- Eric

Offline wotavidone

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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2022, 10:10:27 PM »
Anton,
Yes, ready to use. Fridge is holding technique only. And I allow it to warm up to room type temperature before mixing.


Offline Anton1

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2022, 07:54:53 AM »
Yes, I understood that your method is correct. My post was more to the OP's method of putting a one hour fermented poolish directly into the cooler as shown here:
Im new to pizza making, just following the recipe in the video I posted. Once he makes the poolish he says to leave it out for 1 hour at room temp then put it in the fridge for 16-24h.

He doesnt state why in the video but my understanding was that if you slow down the fermentation a little bit by putting it in the fridge it gives the other processes a chance to happen before all the fermentation does and you get better flavor this way.
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2022, 06:21:30 PM »
Yes, thanks...in fact, just mixed a batch where the fermented poolish then rested 3  days the the fridge before final mix .  IDY was .02% of total formula flour. No additional iDY other than amount in poolish was used. We shall see 😆

Offline foreplease

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2022, 11:19:21 PM »
Yes, thanks...in fact, just mixed a batch where the fermented poolish then rested 3  days the the fridge before final mix .  IDY was .02% of total formula flour. No additional iDY other than amount in poolish was used. We shall see 😆
That much is how the OP did it (all of formula yeast in the poolish). I know that is your preferred method. Someday I will give it a try. There seem to be at least 3 camps wrt yeast in poolish:
1 - just a few granules then, ignoring that, the full amount in the final dough (Hans);
2 - use the total formula percentage of yeast times the flour used in the poolish, then do the same with the remaining flour that goes into final dough (what I tend to do because in order to grasp keeping the overall HR I had to think of it in terms of subtracting the poolish ingredients from the formula total amounts;
3 - all of the formula yeast goes in the poolish.


I also need to try #1 because it conflicts the least with the traditional definition of autolyse (water and flour only, no yeast), which I use from time to time. I have used the autolyse step in connection with #2. Not knowing any better, over many attempts I thought it worked fine and that poolish and autolyse both enhanced the final dough.


More than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes.


EDIT, I thought of it in terms, not germs.  :-\
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 11:47:55 AM by foreplease »
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Offline HansB

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Re: Mouth is ridiculously dry after eating - What causes it? recipe inside
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2022, 11:26:12 PM »
Tony, if you want to do an autolyse with a preferment(poolish) do the autolyse then add the poolish. Just like using a levain, autolyse, then add levain. That said, I don't use an autolyse when I use a poolish.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 11:32:55 PM by HansB »
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