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Author Topic: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven  (Read 1951 times)

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Offline 38jf939jf

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Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« on: November 29, 2022, 01:44:02 PM »
Hi, what's so difficult about making an electric oven that can reach 900 degrees (with the constraint that wattage must be around 1800W, for practicality)? The only one I know of is the Breville but it's so expensive. So does anyone know why Breville is the only company makes one? Maybe demand is low, but Ooni seems to be doing well and I would much rather own an electric oven than a gas, especially during the colder months.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 01:45:39 PM by 38jf939jf »

Offline foobar34

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2022, 04:40:53 PM »
Methinks it's physics  >:D The PH134, which can reach 900F is 2800W and the Breville only reaches 750F with its 1800W. That is a pretty strong indication that to go above 750F you need more than 1800W

You need more than 1800W to get to 900F in a reasonable time, and be able to bring the temperature back after you open the door and add the pizza. It might be possible to add a lot of insulation, but it would make the oven much bigger and it's still unlikely to be able to bounce back to 950F once you open the door to insert the pizza

Given that it's hard to get more than 1800W in a domestic USA/Canada kitchen, any oven above 1800W/15A will have a small market. In theory you could get a 120V/20A circuit, but at that point having a 240V feed is more common. And the small market that is willing to use 240V can easily get a PH134 (easily, not cheaply :)), making it less appealing for a company to spend the money to design and market such an oven

The same limitation caused problems to the espresso machine market years ago: most of the higher end espresso machines needed more than 1800W (especially the dual boiler ones), and it took time for the market to develop: true espresso aficionados were using 240V or having a 20A plug installed, until demand grew to the point where dual boiler machines were developed with enough circuitry to never draw more than 1800W at once. That is easy to do for an espresso machine, which needs much, much less than 1800W when at a stable temperature, but would be really hard to do, if not impossible, for an oven

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2022, 05:15:15 PM »
I think it's all that and also the design features that it takes to make an oven that can reach high temps safe.
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2022, 05:26:48 PM »
I think it's all that and also the design features that it takes to make an oven that can reach high temps safe.

It's also important to note that absolute deck temp is not the only measure of performance. Breville's focused radiant elements, reflectors, deck materials, insulation, etc. are designed to deliver a fast, balanced bake.

Offline 38jf939jf

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2022, 07:16:31 PM »
Fascinating, so let's assume an oven with a max temp of 750F under 1800W; why can't that be produced at an affordable (< $500) price?

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Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2022, 09:08:35 PM »
Fascinating, so let's assume an oven with a max temp of 750F under 1800W; why can't that be produced at an affordable (< $500) price?

I understand that the breville smart pizzaiolo has 3 different heating elements and a fair bit of control logic.

I bet the price has a lot to do with the usual kind of business calculations - they were afraid that if they sold them at $500 they wouldn't make enough money in the market for people who pay $500 for a pizza oven. But at $1k they make enough money per unit from the people who will pay $1k for an indoor electric pizza oven.
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Offline dragonspawn

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2022, 04:34:54 AM »
Fascinating, so let's assume an oven with a max temp of 750F under 1800W; why can't that be produced at an affordable (< $500) price?

Niche market. And you also compete with the gas offerings that are much cheaper to produce.

Offline thezaman

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2022, 05:55:12 AM »
Iíll bet the next wave of ovens put out by Ooni or one  of the other small gas oven Manufacturers will produce an electric oven that hits temperatures that the Breville hit.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2022, 09:31:10 AM »
Iíll bet the next wave of ovens put out by Ooni or one  of the other small gas oven Manufacturers will produce an electric oven that hits temperatures that the Breville hit.

I'd tend to doubt it. It's a different animal to build things intended to be used indoors.
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Offline Travinos_Pizza

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2022, 08:45:44 PM »
Fascinating, so let's assume an oven with a max temp of 750F under 1800W; why can't that be produced at an affordable (< $500) price?

Thereís a lot to this right now. Supply chain issues not withstanding, youíve got steel at incredibly high prices right now and whatever motherboard(s) is controlling thisÖ components are insanity right now.
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Offline 38jf939jf

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2022, 11:04:49 AM »
Thereís a lot to this right now. Supply chain issues not withstanding, youíve got steel at incredibly high prices right now and whatever motherboard(s) is controlling thisÖ components are insanity right now.

But there are a lot of sub $500 toaster ovens with "pizza mode". They all seem to cap out at 500F though; which leads me to believe that the push to 750F is hard to achieve, similar to how a car can achieve 200mph, but past that requires tons of extra power.

Offline Travinos_Pizza

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2022, 01:29:49 PM »
But there are a lot of sub $500 toaster ovens with "pizza mode". They all seem to cap out at 500F though; which leads me to believe that the push to 750F is hard to achieve, similar to how a car can achieve 200mph, but past that requires tons of extra power.

This is just evidence to my point. Youíre already in a niche market, so stock on the shelves of stuff that is east to make will be plentiful. What you need for the 900 degrees is better technology. Supply chain and custom components canít be found and again, thereís no demand.
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Offline 38jf939jf

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2022, 05:11:00 PM »
This is just evidence to my point. Youíre already in a niche market, so stock on the shelves of stuff that is east to make will be plentiful. What you need for the 900 degrees is better technology. Supply chain and custom components canít be found and again, thereís no demand.

Oh, I assumed there is demand seeing how outdoor gas pizza ovens have become popular.

Offline Travinos_Pizza

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2022, 05:39:43 PM »
Oh, I assumed there is demand seeing how outdoor gas pizza ovens have become popular.

Yeah, the demand is for outdoor ovens. Not indoor electric.
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2022, 08:23:28 AM »
The question specifically asks why no affordable 900F oven, so this 1600W/750F oven with separate top and bottom heat control is a little off-track, but I'm curious as to
a) do you have these things in America?
b) if you do have them why do we seldom, if ever, see them mentioned on pizzamaking.com?

The link is to a 220-240V model, but at 1600w a 110v model should be fine, I'd think?
750F is getting darned close to Neapolitan territory. That is where I run my floor bricks.

And its $169 Australian - about $120 US.

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B09LHS5NHC/?tag=pmak-20

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61LY5S2km0L._AC_SL1000_.jpg
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 08:29:10 AM by wotavidone »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2022, 08:37:09 AM »
The link is to a 220-240V model, but at 1600w a 110v model should be fine, I'd think?
750F is getting darned close to Neapolitan territory. That is where I run my floor bricks.

There are quite a few posts about ovens of that style here - particularly the G3 Ferrari oven. My general impression is that they require significant hacks to hit and bake evenly at higher temps. A number of people have actually added a second electrical connection and independently powered elements.

For example: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19732.0
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2022, 09:07:45 AM »
Missed it, obviously.
But I just googled the G3 Ferrari, it's only 1200W, hence the need for hacking it, I guess.
And proving even the Italians can make junk pizza ovens.

The one I linked to is 1600W and 16 inch stone, and independent element control.
I have spent the last 20 minutes or so interrogating amazon.com. It looks like a 110V version doesn't exist.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 09:09:22 AM by wotavidone »
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Offline Davydd

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2022, 09:14:48 AM »
Breville has been in the electric pizza makers for several years now and they are an electric oven company, not gas. I have had the Breville Crispy Crust pizza maker for some 8 years now. I just resurrected it now that it is getting cold and snowy again in Minnesota. It reaches 660 degrees so Breville is trying to get as close to possible with the Neapolitan temps. Their ovens are too expensive for 90 more degrees with so many gas ovens on the market. I'm finding the standard home kitchen range with gas to be fine with other pizzas other than Neapolitan. The only advantage is indoors and quicker baking time.

I'm experimenting with the Breville Crispy Crust. I got a 1/4" round steel to hopefully goose the cooking but I have found that steels in my kitchen oven comes just as close and I can make bigger pizzas.

Pizza and Pursuing breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches are my food passions.

I have and used a Breville Crispy Crust, Pizzaque and Bertello Napoli, and of course a home oven range.

Offline Travinos_Pizza

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2022, 08:32:43 PM »
Looks nice Davydd. How quickly does that thing heat up?
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Offline Davydd

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Re: Why No One Makes An Affordable 1800W/120V 900F Electric Oven
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2022, 11:08:48 PM »
Iím not sure. Iíve given it 20 minutes and 40 minutes. The steel is a new addition that I have used just once. Iím going to bake tomorrow and will know more.  I will give it the infrared and see when it peaks. I give it a 6-7 minute bake so far. I donít get the spotted char so far.
Pizza and Pursuing breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches are my food passions.

I have and used a Breville Crispy Crust, Pizzaque and Bertello Napoli, and of course a home oven range.

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