Essen1's NY-style pizza project

[keylime73]

I was just researching some characteristics of a great NYC pie and Di Fara came up.

Watched the video when I saw the sauce. I stopped it right there, rewound, and put it full-screen. The sauce seems much darker than regular NYC sauces.

It looks almost like it's pre-cooked and simmered down.

Any thoughts?

I read through all the DiFara threads recently.

What I could gather is that his round pie sauce is uncooked (and is made of a mix of canned and fresh tomatoes), while his Sicilian sauce is slow-cooked with prosciutto or something pork in it.

That sauce does look dark, though.  Maybe it's just the video? Maybe he had run out of the uncooked or just wanted to use-up what he had left?

[Minolta Rokkor]

That's basically the model I have. The vent sits inside the back right burner.

Wow I have the same model as well.

[Minolta Rokkor]

Flour (100%): Water (65%): ADY (0.3%): Salt (2.5%): Olive Oil (1%): Sugar (1%): Diastatic Malt Powder (1%): Total (170.8%): Single Ball:

1005.27 g  |  35.46 oz | 2.22 lbs 653.43 g  |  23.05 oz | 1.44 lbs 3.02 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.8 tsp | 0.27 tbsp 25.13 g | 0.89 oz | 0.06 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp 10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.23 tsp | 0.74 tbsp 10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.52 tsp | 0.84 tbsp 10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.38 tsp |1.13 tbsp 1717 g | 60.56 oz | 3.79 lbs | TF = N/A 429.25 g | 15.14 oz | 0.95 lbs

It'll make four 429 gr dough balls (16").

EDIT (6/22/15): Corrected volume measurements for Diastatic Malt Powder (low-diastatic malt from AB Mauri)

This is what i've been looking for.

How well would bread flour work? Do you have another 16" recipe that does great using King Authors Bread Flour?

[Essen1]

This is what i've been looking for.

How well would bread flour work? Do you have another 16" recipe that does great using King Authors Bread Flour?

KABF should work very well with this formula. Just mix maybe 1-2 mins longer.

Here's another formula with a much lower hydration that works very well as well:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg380433#msg380433

[Minolta Rokkor]

KABF should work very well with this formula. Just mix maybe 1-2 mins longer.

Here's another formula with a much lower hydration that works very well as well:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg380433#msg380433

Hey, I JUST finished making your dough(the recipe I initially quoted).

I simply reduced the recipe to a 1/4 of it's original size since i'm trying multiple recipes.

I'll make the papa johns clone and Buffulo NY style clones as well.

Anyways

How long should this dough proof at room temp once the dough is removed from the fridge 3 days from now?

[Minolta Rokkor]

Flour (100%): Water (65%): ADY (0.3%): Salt (2.5%): Olive Oil (1%): Sugar (1%): Diastatic Malt Powder (1%): Total (170.8%): Single Ball:

1005.27 g  |  35.46 oz | 2.22 lbs 653.43 g  |  23.05 oz | 1.44 lbs 3.02 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.8 tsp | 0.27 tbsp 25.13 g | 0.89 oz | 0.06 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp 10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.23 tsp | 0.74 tbsp 10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.52 tsp | 0.84 tbsp 10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.38 tsp |1.13 tbsp 1717 g | 60.56 oz | 3.79 lbs | TF = N/A 429.25 g | 15.14 oz | 0.95 lbs

It'll make four 429 gr dough balls (16").

EDIT (6/22/15): Corrected volume measurements for Diastatic Malt Powder (low-diastatic malt from AB Mauri)

Essen1, this was the best dough recipe i've run into to date.

THIS IS MY GO TO DOUGH!!!

I'm gonna use it for a potluck at my job. Can't wait!

[clarkth]

Essen1, this was the best dough recipe i've run into to date.

THIS IS MY GO TO DOUGH!!!

I'm gonna use it for a potluck at my job. Can't wait!

Do you really get 16" out of a 15oz dough ball?  That seems low to me, I usually have close to 20oz for 16" thin NYC style pizza

[Essen1]

Essen1, this was the best dough recipe i've run into to date.

THIS IS MY GO TO DOUGH!!!

I'm gonna use it for a potluck at my job. Can't wait!

Very happy to hear that it worked well for you! What was the baking temp and time?

[Essen1]

Do you really get 16" out of a 15oz dough ball?  That seems low to me, I usually have close to 20oz for 16" thin NYC style pizza

20oz for a 16"? Really? I normally use that amount for an 18".

15oz is spot on for my taste for a 16" pie.

[TXCraig1]

20oz for a 16"? Really? I normally use that amount for an 18".

15oz is spot on for my taste for a 16" pie.

Same here. I'm at about 17.6oz/500g for a 17".

[mitchjg]

clarkth:

You may want to look at this in terms of the "thickness factor" which is the weight of the dough ball divided by the area of the pie circle.  (in ounces and square inches).  There is no hard and fast rule and the actual thickness of the rim compared to the thickness of the middle can make one pie different than another, even with the same thickness factor.

Having said that:

Esssen1's pie is 15.14 ounces for a 16 inch pie.  The area of the pie (pi X radius squared) is 3.142 X 8 X 8 = 201.09.  The thickness factor is 15.14/201.09 = .0753, say 0.075

Your pie is 20 ounces for a 16 inch pie, so the thickness factor is 20/201.09 = .0995, say .100.

Craig's is 17.6 ounces for a 17 inch pie.  The area is 3.142 X 8.5 X 8.5 = 227.01.  So, the thickness factor is 17.6/227.01 = 0.07753, say 0.0775.

0.075 is on the low end for a NY style pie (although some are lower).  And 0.100 is on the high end (some are higher, maybe).  Although there is some debate on the forum on what is "right", I would push you towards the lower end.  It is hard to think about 0.100 as a thickness factor for a "thin NYC style pizza."  It is harder to stretch it out that thin (well under 0.08), but completely manageable with the right dough, etc.

[jvp123]

clarkth:

You may want to look at this in terms of the "thickness factor" which is the weight of the dough ball divided by the area of the pie circle.  (in ounces and square inches).  There is no hard and fast rule and the actual thickness of the rim compared to the thickness of the middle can make one pie different than another, even with the same thickness factor.

Having said that:

Esssen1's pie is 15.14 ounces for a 16 inch pie.  The area of the pie (pi X radius squared) is 3.142 X 8 X 8 = 201.09.  The thickness factor is 15.14/201.09 = .0753, say 0.075

Your pie is 20 ounces for a 16 inch pie, so the thickness factor is 20/201.09 = .0995, say .100.

Craig's is 17.6 ounces for a 17 inch pie.  The area is 3.142 X 8.5 X 8.5 = 227.01.  So, the thickness factor is 17.6/227.01 = 0.07753, say 0.0775.

0.075 is on the low end for a NY style pie (although some are lower).  And 0.100 is on the high end (some are higher, maybe).  Although there is some debate on the forum on what is "right", I would push you towards the lower end.  It is hard to think about 0.100 as a thickness factor for a "thin NYC style pizza."  It is harder to stretch it out that thin (well under 0.08), but completely manageable with the right dough, etc.

Great post Mitch! 

[Minolta Rokkor]

Do you really get 16" out of a 15oz dough ball?  That seems low to me, I usually have close to 20oz for 16" thin NYC style pizza

I got 14" - 13" out of it.

[Minolta Rokkor]

Very happy to hear that it worked well for you! What was the baking temp and time?

550*F for 5 1/2 to 6 min. It got very crispy. I'm gonna  make some more get pics next time.
Heck, might even make some for the potluck.

[invertedisdead]

I do a 15" 450.g | 0.99 lbs | TF = 0.09 to do a larger rim

[norcoscia]

clarkth:

You may want to look at this in terms of the "thickness factor" which is the weight of the dough ball divided by the area of the pie circle.  (in ounces and square inches).  There is no hard and fast rule and the actual thickness of the rim compared to the thickness of the middle can make one pie different than another, even with the same thickness factor.

Having said that:

Esssen1's pie is 15.14 ounces for a 16 inch pie.  The area of the pie (pi X radius squared) is 3.142 X 8 X 8 = 201.09.  The thickness factor is 15.14/201.09 = .0753, say 0.075

Your pie is 20 ounces for a 16 inch pie, so the thickness factor is 20/201.09 = .0995, say .100.

Craig's is 17.6 ounces for a 17 inch pie.  The area is 3.142 X 8.5 X 8.5 = 227.01.  So, the thickness factor is 17.6/227.01 = 0.07753, say 0.0775.

0.075 is on the low end for a NY style pie (although some are lower).  And 0.100 is on the high end (some are higher, maybe).  Although there is some debate on the forum on what is "right", I would push you towards the lower end.  It is hard to think about 0.100 as a thickness factor for a "thin NYC style pizza."  It is harder to stretch it out that thin (well under 0.08), but completely manageable with the right dough, etc.

Thanks for posting this Mitch, I have seen reference to "thickness factor" over the years on this board but I never really payed much attention to it since I did not want to spend the time trying to sort it out and I just made my pies the way I liked them anyway. Your quick and clear explanation made it easy for me to understand. As it turns out, I'm a .078 kind of guy 

PS. adding a thickness factor worksheet in case anyone finds it handy.....

[mitchjg]

Thanks for posting this Mitch, I have seen reference to "thickness factor" over the years on this board but I never really payed much attention to it since I did not want to spend the time trying to sort it out and I just made my pies the way I liked them anyway. Your quick and clear explanation made it easy for me to understand. As it turns out, I'm a .078 kind of guy 

PS. adding a thickness factor worksheet in case anyone finds it handy.....

You are very welcome and I hope the concepts prove useful to you (and your chart to all).  A couple of other points:

1 Once you have your typical dough ball nailed there is, of course, no need for this rigamarole.  For me, typically my dough balls around around 256.5 for a 12 inch pie, being a thickness factor of 0.08.  So, what if I want a 10 inch pie?  Rather than go through all the steps, you can just ratio the squares of the diamters as follows:

256.5 X (10X10/12 X 12) = 256.5 X 100/144 = 256.5 X 0.6944 = 178.1

2. The same concepts apply for rectangular (e.g. Sicilian style) pies.  If, for example you have a 13 X 18 half-sheet pan and you want a thickness factor of 0.14 then:

Area of the pan is 13 X 18 = 234.

234 X 0.14 = 32.8 ounces of dough.

Ok, back to Mike and his awesome NY pies....................

[norcoscia]

Great point on the Sicilian style pies Mitch - I didn't think about it, but naturally it works for those as well - Worksheet V2 below - I added weight in grams since most are likely use the metric system when working in baker's percentages.

[clarkth]

I use .1 in the dough calculator which works out to about 20oz for 16"  That gives me a very thin center and good edge.

[Essen1]

Just mixed a pretty straight-up, same-day dough for tonight's use. No fuss about this one, no special mixing, no special rest periods, nothing.

Mixing time was 8 minutes. Dough temp off the hook was 78°F. Balled immediately and then bowled, covered with plastic wrap.

Flour: Power flour, from Grain Craft (http://www.graincraft.com/)

Yeast: SAF Instant Red

Malt: AB Mauri Low DMP ( one teaspoon = 2.974 grams, or 3 grams roumded)

Flour (100%): Water (60%): IDY (.5%): Salt (2%): Olive Oil (1.5%): Sugar (1%): Diastatic Malt Powder (3%): Total (168%):

227.68 g  |  8.03 oz | 0.5 lbs 136.61 g  |  4.82 oz | 0.3 lbs 1.14 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp 4.55 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp 3.42 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp 2.28 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.57 tsp | 0.19 tbsp 6.83 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.30 tsp | 0.76 tbsp 382.5 g | 13.49 oz | 0.84 lbs | TF = N/A

Dough is for a single 13-ounce dough ball for a single 15" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 13/(3.14159 x 7.5 x 7.5) = 0.073565; bowl residue compensation = 2%)

Pie will be baked tonight at 550 - 575°F.

What I want to check out is if the malt, in combination with some sugar, can deliver the same browning as longer fermented doughs.

So we shall see.