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Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project  (Read 449907 times)

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Offline keylime73

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1180 on: September 08, 2015, 09:21:26 AM »
I was just researching some characteristics of a great NYC pie and Di Fara came up.

Watched the video when I saw the sauce. I stopped it right there, rewound, and put it full-screen. The sauce seems much darker than regular NYC sauces.

It looks almost like it's pre-cooked and simmered down.

Any thoughts?

I read through all the DiFara threads recently.

What I could gather is that his round pie sauce is uncooked (and is made of a mix of canned and fresh tomatoes), while his Sicilian sauce is slow-cooked with prosciutto or something pork in it.

That sauce does look dark, though.  Maybe it's just the video? Maybe he had run out of the uncooked or just wanted to use-up what he had left?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 12:45:57 PM by keylime73 »

Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1181 on: September 08, 2015, 12:35:25 PM »
That's basically the model I have. The vent sits inside the back right burner.

Wow I have the same model as well.
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Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1182 on: September 08, 2015, 12:50:46 PM »
Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
ADY (0.3%):
Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Sugar (1%):
Diastatic Malt Powder (1%):
Total (170.8%):
Single Ball:
1005.27 g  |  35.46 oz | 2.22 lbs
653.43 g  |  23.05 oz | 1.44 lbs
3.02 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.8 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
25.13 g | 0.89 oz | 0.06 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.23 tsp | 0.74 tbsp
10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.52 tsp | 0.84 tbsp
10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.38 tsp |1.13 tbsp
1717 g | 60.56 oz | 3.79 lbs | TF = N/A
429.25 g | 15.14 oz | 0.95 lbs

It'll make four 429 gr dough balls (16").

EDIT (6/22/15): Corrected volume measurements for Diastatic Malt Powder (low-diastatic malt from AB Mauri)

This is what i've been looking for.

How well would bread flour work? Do you have another 16" recipe that does great using King Authors Bread Flour?

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1183 on: September 08, 2015, 08:01:46 PM »
This is what i've been looking for.

How well would bread flour work? Do you have another 16" recipe that does great using King Authors Bread Flour?

KABF should work very well with this formula. Just mix maybe 1-2 mins longer.

Here's another formula with a much lower hydration that works very well as well:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg380433#msg380433
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 08:03:33 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1184 on: September 09, 2015, 02:20:15 AM »
KABF should work very well with this formula. Just mix maybe 1-2 mins longer.

Here's another formula with a much lower hydration that works very well as well:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg380433#msg380433


Hey, I JUST finished making your dough(the recipe I initially quoted).

I simply reduced the recipe to a 1/4 of it's original size since i'm trying multiple recipes.

I'll make the papa johns clone and Buffulo NY style clones as well.

Anyways

How long should this dough proof at room temp once the dough is removed from the fridge 3 days from now?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 02:30:51 AM by Minolta Rokkor »
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Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1185 on: September 13, 2015, 01:06:10 PM »
Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
ADY (0.3%):
Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Sugar (1%):
Diastatic Malt Powder (1%):
Total (170.8%):
Single Ball:
1005.27 g  |  35.46 oz | 2.22 lbs
653.43 g  |  23.05 oz | 1.44 lbs
3.02 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.8 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
25.13 g | 0.89 oz | 0.06 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.23 tsp | 0.74 tbsp
10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.52 tsp | 0.84 tbsp
10.05 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.38 tsp |1.13 tbsp
1717 g | 60.56 oz | 3.79 lbs | TF = N/A
429.25 g | 15.14 oz | 0.95 lbs

It'll make four 429 gr dough balls (16").

EDIT (6/22/15): Corrected volume measurements for Diastatic Malt Powder (low-diastatic malt from AB Mauri)

Essen1, this was the best dough recipe i've run into to date.

THIS IS MY GO TO DOUGH!!!

I'm gonna use it for a potluck at my job. Can't wait!
Pizza is about balance, nothing more nothing less

Offline clarkth

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1186 on: September 13, 2015, 03:06:20 PM »
Essen1, this was the best dough recipe i've run into to date.

THIS IS MY GO TO DOUGH!!!

I'm gonna use it for a potluck at my job. Can't wait!

Do you really get 16" out of a 15oz dough ball?  That seems low to me, I usually have close to 20oz for 16" thin NYC style pizza

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1187 on: September 13, 2015, 05:45:31 PM »
Essen1, this was the best dough recipe i've run into to date.

THIS IS MY GO TO DOUGH!!!

I'm gonna use it for a potluck at my job. Can't wait!

Very happy to hear that it worked well for you! What was the baking temp and time?
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1188 on: September 13, 2015, 05:46:48 PM »
Do you really get 16" out of a 15oz dough ball?  That seems low to me, I usually have close to 20oz for 16" thin NYC style pizza

20oz for a 16"? Really? I normally use that amount for an 18".

15oz is spot on for my taste for a 16" pie.
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1189 on: September 13, 2015, 06:47:52 PM »
20oz for a 16"? Really? I normally use that amount for an 18".

15oz is spot on for my taste for a 16" pie.

Same here. I'm at about 17.6oz/500g for a 17".
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Offline mitchjg

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1190 on: September 13, 2015, 07:28:01 PM »
clarkth:

You may want to look at this in terms of the "thickness factor" which is the weight of the dough ball divided by the area of the pie circle.  (in ounces and square inches).  There is no hard and fast rule and the actual thickness of the rim compared to the thickness of the middle can make one pie different than another, even with the same thickness factor.

Having said that:

Esssen1's pie is 15.14 ounces for a 16 inch pie.  The area of the pie (pi X radius squared) is 3.142 X 8 X 8 = 201.09.  The thickness factor is 15.14/201.09 = .0753, say 0.075

Your pie is 20 ounces for a 16 inch pie, so the thickness factor is 20/201.09 = .0995, say .100.

Craig's is 17.6 ounces for a 17 inch pie.  The area is 3.142 X 8.5 X 8.5 = 227.01.  So, the thickness factor is 17.6/227.01 = 0.07753, say 0.0775.

0.075 is on the low end for a NY style pie (although some are lower).  And 0.100 is on the high end (some are higher, maybe).  Although there is some debate on the forum on what is "right", I would push you towards the lower end.  It is hard to think about 0.100 as a thickness factor for a "thin NYC style pizza."  It is harder to stretch it out that thin (well under 0.08), but completely manageable with the right dough, etc.
Mitch

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Offline jvp123

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1191 on: September 13, 2015, 07:47:47 PM »
clarkth:

You may want to look at this in terms of the "thickness factor" which is the weight of the dough ball divided by the area of the pie circle.  (in ounces and square inches).  There is no hard and fast rule and the actual thickness of the rim compared to the thickness of the middle can make one pie different than another, even with the same thickness factor.

Having said that:

Esssen1's pie is 15.14 ounces for a 16 inch pie.  The area of the pie (pi X radius squared) is 3.142 X 8 X 8 = 201.09.  The thickness factor is 15.14/201.09 = .0753, say 0.075

Your pie is 20 ounces for a 16 inch pie, so the thickness factor is 20/201.09 = .0995, say .100.

Craig's is 17.6 ounces for a 17 inch pie.  The area is 3.142 X 8.5 X 8.5 = 227.01.  So, the thickness factor is 17.6/227.01 = 0.07753, say 0.0775.

0.075 is on the low end for a NY style pie (although some are lower).  And 0.100 is on the high end (some are higher, maybe).  Although there is some debate on the forum on what is "right", I would push you towards the lower end.  It is hard to think about 0.100 as a thickness factor for a "thin NYC style pizza."  It is harder to stretch it out that thin (well under 0.08), but completely manageable with the right dough, etc.

Great post Mitch!  :chef:
Jeff

Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1192 on: September 13, 2015, 11:12:23 PM »
Do you really get 16" out of a 15oz dough ball?  That seems low to me, I usually have close to 20oz for 16" thin NYC style pizza
I got 14" - 13" out of it.
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Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1193 on: September 13, 2015, 11:14:34 PM »
Very happy to hear that it worked well for you! What was the baking temp and time?
550*F for 5 1/2 to 6 min. It got very crispy. I'm gonna  make some more get pics next time.
Heck, might even make some for the potluck.
Pizza is about balance, nothing more nothing less

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1194 on: September 15, 2015, 09:54:48 AM »
I do a 15" 450.g | 0.99 lbs | TF = 0.09 to do a larger rim
the proof is in the pizza

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Offline norcoscia

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1195 on: September 15, 2015, 11:53:50 AM »
clarkth:

You may want to look at this in terms of the "thickness factor" which is the weight of the dough ball divided by the area of the pie circle.  (in ounces and square inches).  There is no hard and fast rule and the actual thickness of the rim compared to the thickness of the middle can make one pie different than another, even with the same thickness factor.

Having said that:

Esssen1's pie is 15.14 ounces for a 16 inch pie.  The area of the pie (pi X radius squared) is 3.142 X 8 X 8 = 201.09.  The thickness factor is 15.14/201.09 = .0753, say 0.075

Your pie is 20 ounces for a 16 inch pie, so the thickness factor is 20/201.09 = .0995, say .100.

Craig's is 17.6 ounces for a 17 inch pie.  The area is 3.142 X 8.5 X 8.5 = 227.01.  So, the thickness factor is 17.6/227.01 = 0.07753, say 0.0775.

0.075 is on the low end for a NY style pie (although some are lower).  And 0.100 is on the high end (some are higher, maybe).  Although there is some debate on the forum on what is "right", I would push you towards the lower end.  It is hard to think about 0.100 as a thickness factor for a "thin NYC style pizza."  It is harder to stretch it out that thin (well under 0.08), but completely manageable with the right dough, etc.


Thanks for posting this Mitch, I have seen reference to "thickness factor" over the years on this board but I never really payed much attention to it since I did not want to spend the time trying to sort it out and I just made my pies the way I liked them anyway. Your quick and clear explanation made it easy for me to understand. As it turns out, I'm a .078 kind of guy  :-D

PS. adding a thickness factor worksheet in case anyone finds it handy.....
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1196 on: September 15, 2015, 12:50:42 PM »

Thanks for posting this Mitch, I have seen reference to "thickness factor" over the years on this board but I never really payed much attention to it since I did not want to spend the time trying to sort it out and I just made my pies the way I liked them anyway. Your quick and clear explanation made it easy for me to understand. As it turns out, I'm a .078 kind of guy  :-D

PS. adding a thickness factor worksheet in case anyone finds it handy.....

You are very welcome and I hope the concepts prove useful to you (and your chart to all).  A couple of other points:

1 Once you have your typical dough ball nailed there is, of course, no need for this rigamarole.  For me, typically my dough balls around around 256.5 for a 12 inch pie, being a thickness factor of 0.08.  So, what if I want a 10 inch pie?  Rather than go through all the steps, you can just ratio the squares of the diamters as follows:

256.5 X (10X10/12 X 12) = 256.5 X 100/144 = 256.5 X 0.6944 = 178.1

2. The same concepts apply for rectangular (e.g. Sicilian style) pies.  If, for example you have a 13 X 18 half-sheet pan and you want a thickness factor of 0.14 then:

Area of the pan is 13 X 18 = 234.

234 X 0.14 = 32.8 ounces of dough.

Ok, back to Mike and his awesome NY pies....................
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1197 on: September 15, 2015, 01:45:06 PM »
Great point on the Sicilian style pies Mitch - I didn't think about it, but naturally it works for those as well - Worksheet V2 below - I added weight in grams since most are likely use the metric system when working in baker's percentages.
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline clarkth

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1198 on: September 15, 2015, 07:04:41 PM »
I use .1 in the dough calculator which works out to about 20oz for 16"  That gives me a very thin center and good edge.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #1199 on: September 18, 2015, 06:51:25 PM »
Just mixed a pretty straight-up, same-day dough for tonight's use. No fuss about this one, no special mixing, no special rest periods, nothing.

Mixing time was 8 minutes. Dough temp off the hook was 78°F. Balled immediately and then bowled, covered with plastic wrap.

Flour: Power flour, from Grain Craft (http://www.graincraft.com/)

Yeast: SAF Instant Red

Malt: AB Mauri Low DMP ( one teaspoon = 2.974 grams, or 3 grams roumded)

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (1.5%):
Sugar (1%):
Diastatic Malt Powder (3%):
Total (168%):
227.68 g  |  8.03 oz | 0.5 lbs
136.61 g  |  4.82 oz | 0.3 lbs
1.14 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
4.55 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
3.42 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
2.28 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.57 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
6.83 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.30 tsp | 0.76 tbsp
382.5 g | 13.49 oz | 0.84 lbs | TF = N/A
Dough is for a single 13-ounce dough ball for a single 15" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 13/(3.14159 x 7.5 x 7.5) = 0.073565; bowl residue compensation = 2%)

Pie will be baked tonight at 550 - 575°F.

What I want to check out is if the malt, in combination with some sugar, can deliver the same browning as longer fermented doughs.

So we shall see. ;D

Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

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