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Author Topic: oven temp for NY style  (Read 1531 times)

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Offline drimkunas

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oven temp for NY style
« on: May 20, 2021, 01:56:07 PM »
I'm a bit confused about what oven temps people use for NY style. I've always been told that pros use 500-550F. I can easily get 550 in my home oven with a steel, yet struggle to get the top crust to brown. I use All Trumps bromated at 62% hydration. I've experimented with adding oil, no oil, sugar, malt, honey but never get a brown unless i leave it in so long that my low moisture mozz cheese is a dissolved liquid mess. I've experimented with the steel on the lower rack, starting there and then moving the pie up to the top part of the oven, even used the broiler a times but it's always not right. I'll get the bottom PERFECT, but nothing else is right. Any guidance or tricks to get an even bake?

Offline Peter B

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2021, 02:47:52 PM »
Unfortunately, there is no one solid answer.  You will need to experiment and find what works best for your oven.  I went through what you are experiencing now, and it can be annoying. 

Here is what I settled on that works for me and my oven:
- I use both oil and sugar in my dough - 3 days CF and 2-3 hours at RT.  The recipe is essentially this one (https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza)
- Preheat the oven to 535 - 550.  I haven't noticed a big difference.  If I preheat to 535, I raise the temp to 550 maybe 30 seconds before the pie goes in.  That way - the bottom element is on when the pie goes in.
- I load my pie onto a pizza disc that gets placed on the oven rack sitting 2nd from the lowest possible position.  The other oven rack is right above that and has a preheated stone.
- The pie sits for 5 minutes, and then I rotate 180 degrees.  After two minutes, I kill the oven heat and cue the broiler.  After one minute (so we are at 8 minutes now), the disc (pie and all) gets moved up to sit on top of the stone).  It sits there for another two minutes.  Ten minutes total baking time.
- The pie comes out of the oven and is moved to a cooling rack.  I leave it there until an IR reads about 170 or so.
- Move to a serving pan, cut, eat, repeat.

Be willing to try odd things, like a hodgepodge of timings.  But I would suggest either changing only one thing at a time, or if you think what you are doing is really not working, scrap it all and try something different.  Hope this helps.

The Broz
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 02:49:32 PM by Peter B »
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He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

Offline Gene in Acadiana

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2021, 03:17:56 PM »
It's highly possible that a stone may work better for you in this case than steel. I went back to using a stone after using a steel for several years and now I get much more consistent results top to bottom without doing a lot of oven gymnastics.

But if your cheese is browning/melting too fast, try using slices instead of shredding, or slightly freezing the cheese for about 15 minutes. I usually do both. This will give the crust a couple of extra minutes before the cheese gets to that point. Then again, by this point your crust underneath may be overcooked on the steel, so you may have to dome it for the last minute or two.

I usually bake around 550 F and put the broiler on for the last minute or so. I have oil and DMP in my dough.


Offline hammettjr

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2021, 05:15:14 PM »
For my pies the biggest impact in going from pale blond to dark brown top is the amount of fermentation. What does the underside of your dough look like in the container just before you take it out and stretch it?

Matt

Online jkb

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2021, 08:34:28 PM »
58% hydration.   Use cordierite stone.  Steel won't cut it for NY.
John

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Offline billg

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2021, 10:18:22 PM »
58% hydration.   Use cordierite stone.  Steel won't cut it for NY.

Just curious why steel won't cut it?  I've seen many forum members here use steel in their home oven with great success and in many instances say it's their preferred method for Ny style in their home oven.  I have used both steel and a kiln shelf as a stone and both work awesome.  I think the steel may be a tad more difficult to fine tune at first as far as the ideal  position in the oven but once you find the sweet spot it is awesome! Love to hear your opinion.

regards,
Bill

Online jkb

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2021, 11:46:04 PM »
Just curious why steel won't cut it?  I've seen many forum members here use steel in their home oven with great success and in many instances say it's their preferred method for Ny style in their home oven.  I have used both steel and a kiln shelf as a stone and both work awesome.  I think the steel may be a tad more difficult to fine tune at first as far as the ideal  position in the oven but once you find the sweet spot it is awesome! Love to hear your opinion.

regards,
Bill


Were any of those people from NY?
John

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2021, 11:52:54 PM »
Born and raised in NY. Steel works perfectly fine.

Online jkb

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2021, 12:00:30 AM »
Born and raised in NY. Steel works perfectly fine.

I'm sure it can make great pizza.  I've never seen one that looks like NY.
John

Offline billg

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2021, 12:30:49 AM »

Were any of those people from NY?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  There's a ton of people here on this forum that cook incredible Neapolitan pizza in their wood ovens and I'd bet most of them have never been to Naples.  In fact many of the pizzas I see on this forum look and probably taste better than many establishments that do it for a for a living.

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Offline Gene in Acadiana

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2021, 12:45:09 AM »
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?  There's a ton of people here on this forum that cook incredible Neapolitan pizza in their wood ovens and I'd bet most of them have never been to Naples.  In fact many of the pizzas I see on this forum look and probably taste better than many establishments that do it for a for a living.

Well, it definitely makes a world of difference having a frame of reference. Otherwise you're just guessing at the most critical part - what it tastes like.

Offline scott r

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2021, 07:10:40 AM »
how long have you been preheating the steel for before you drop the pie on it?

I agree with Hammettjr, if thats not the issue, not enough or too much fermentation is usually the culprit with dough that is not browning. 

Offline mathematics28

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2021, 08:25:18 AM »
I bake at 550 for approximately 9 minutes in a regular gas oven without convection and without a broiler. No oven gymnastics. I use a steel on the lowest rack and toss the pizza on that while itís on the pizza screen. Using bromated all trumps and oil anywhere between 2 and 6% with the same browning as the attached image. No sugar. No added diastatic malt.

Offline Gene in Acadiana

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2021, 12:33:53 PM »
I bake at 550 for approximately 9 minutes in a regular gas oven without convection and without a broiler. No oven gymnastics. I use a steel on the lowest rack and toss the pizza on that while itís on the pizza screen. Using bromated all trumps and oil anywhere between 2 and 6% with the same browning as the attached image. No sugar. No added diastatic malt.

Pizza looks great! 

But I would venture to guess that the screen you're using is somewhat defusing the direct heat of the steel, allowing you to avoid the unevenness drimkunas was posting about. Have to admit I never heard of anyone using a screen with a baking steel.

Offline mathematics28

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2021, 12:50:35 PM »
Pizza looks great! 

But I would venture to guess that the screen you're using is somewhat defusing the direct heat of the steel, allowing you to avoid the unevenness drimkunas was posting about. Have to admit I never heard of anyone using a screen with a baking steel.
Well, it seems to work well lol

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Offline mathematics28

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2021, 12:53:40 PM »
I'm sure it can make great pizza.  I've never seen one that looks like NY.

Pizza screen on top of a steel. NYC.

Offline Iamtheguynoodles

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2021, 10:34:54 PM »
I bake at 550 for approximately 9 minutes in a regular gas oven without convection and without a broiler. No oven gymnastics. I use a steel on the lowest rack and toss the pizza on that while itís on the pizza screen. Using bromated all trumps and oil anywhere between 2 and 6% with the same browning as the attached image. No sugar. No added diastatic malt.

What kind of cheese are you using here? Im going to try your method cause that picture is exactly what I want. Thanks a lot for sharing, looks awesome.

Offline scott r

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2021, 08:24:56 AM »
I would say that is a perfect result and breaking the rules... I love it!

Honestly I think there are no rules for pizza in a home oven.  Each oven reacts SO differently its hard to even give great advice about home oven pizza other than try these 20 things lol. 

Offline mathematics28

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2021, 10:46:01 PM »
What kind of cheese are you using here? Im going to try your method cause that picture is exactly what I want. Thanks a lot for sharing, looks awesome.
Thank you. Honestly i donít remember if thatís boars head LMWM or Grande east coast blend. Itís been a while.

Offline bregent

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Re: oven temp for NY style
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2021, 03:40:15 PM »
I tried everything but was never able to get a good top brown until I added an upper stone.  All ovens are different and what works for some may not work for others. Luckily I have a double oven so can keep one configured for pizza all the time.

Bob

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