A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow  (Read 591 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Andrew Bellucci

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 576
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Astoria
    • Bellucci's Pizzeria
Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow
« on: July 29, 2022, 12:10:38 AM »
Since I've been open, I haven't made the same batch of dough twice.  I've played around with hydration, flour, yeast %, but not so much the post-mix workflow.  I used my standard routine from the previous shop.  About 3 weeks ago I decided to finalize my mix workflow:  ingredients/hydration/mix timing workflow/etc.  At least for the time being, anyway. 

So the past couple weeks I've been testing different post-mix workflows:  r/t bulk rest time, stretch & folds, cold bulk time and then after cutting/rolling r/t and c/t time.  The different results are crazy.  Makes me think I've been wasting time worrying about the ingredients and the mix!  Of course that's important but it shouldn't be the sole focus, especially when parsing one part of the equation for analysis. 

One of the huge differences was two sets of stretch and folds after the mix.  Without those S&Fs, it's a completely different dough... totally changed my 12" pie...
Bellucci's Pizzeria
37-08 30th Avenue
Astoria, New York

IG: @The_Bellucci

Offline PizzaGarage

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 686
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2022, 01:00:53 AM »
What did the S&Fs change in the final product Vs no S&Fs?

Offline jvp123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3088
  • Location: Los Angeles, California
  • Trying to make my perfect pizza ...
Re: Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2022, 12:42:42 PM »
I was almost able to visit the last time I was back east. I look forward to trying your pizza some day! - especially that vodka pepp pie or the fresh clam! :chef: 

Are you able to keep a pretty consistent room temp during the S/Fs or are you putting the bulk in the cooler so you don't have to consider that variable as the seasons change etc. 

Jeff

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29171
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2022, 01:45:04 PM »
Quote
The different results are crazy.

Agree 100%. Even changes you don't notice can make a meaningful difference. That's why you can tell someone exactly how you make your pizza, and it's still all but certain that they can't make your pizza.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline jvp123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3088
  • Location: Los Angeles, California
  • Trying to make my perfect pizza ...
Re: Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2022, 10:09:27 PM »
Agree 100%. Even changes you don't notice can make a meaningful difference. That's why you can tell someone exactly how you make your pizza, and it's still all but certain that they can't make your pizza.

I have a hard enough time replicating my own great pizzas! :-D
Jeff

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Andrew Bellucci

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 576
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Astoria
    • Bellucci's Pizzeria
Re: Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2022, 10:40:48 PM »
What did the S&Fs change in the final product Vs no S&Fs?

The S&Fs gave my dough balls structural integrity.  Before the S&Fs the  small doughs (350g/12") would pancake. Very hard to handle and I hated the cornicione. By just implementing two sets of S&Fs the dough structure is so pronounced and maintained such integrity that I can use these doughs after 5 days, even when they are stuck to each other and they peel off without being degassed.  Total game changer.

I was almost able to visit the last time I was back east. I look forward to trying your pizza some day! - especially that vodka pepp pie or the fresh clam! :chef: 

Are you able to keep a pretty consistent room temp during the S/Fs or are you putting the bulk in the cooler so you don't have to consider that variable as the seasons change etc.

My R/T fluctuates INSANELY.!!!  Zero control - I posted an IG story yesterday showing the R/T was 97+!!!  What I've been doing lately is:  I finish my mix (about 30-35 minutes in a Hobart which adds crazy friction/heat), then I divide the dough into two dough bins and let rest 5 minutes, then do S&F #1 and start my next mix. Then I do the 2nd S&F just as my current mix is finishing. Plastic wrap and in the walkin.

My current thought process is not to deviate from the time, but rather decrease my IDY. I'm currently down to less than 1g of IDY per kilo of my flour blend...


Agree 100%. Even changes you don't notice can make a meaningful difference. That's why you can tell someone exactly how you make your pizza, and it's still all but certain that they can't make your pizza.

You hit the nail squarely on the head!

I'm so fortunate that the top guys in the industry love to talk workflows and you'd be ASTOUNDED at the flours used - brand means  NOTHING. There's a guy at the very top of the NY game that buys his flour solely based on price - I'm talking whitelabels from mills that are never mentioned here. Because it's all about workflow.

I'm not a science guy. My workflow/formulas are entirely based on the mix I did the day before and how it's fermenting. I don't make every pie - in fact, I only make occasional pizzas. But I've done every single batch of dough from beginning to end, including cutting/rolling because I go by feel and reaction. The only way to do this is by having my hand in it every day.

I don't know the temp of the water I use, nor the pre or post mix Dough temp. To me it means nothing. I'm totally obsessed with my ambient temp and the amount of ice I put into the mix based on the previous fermentation. Right now I'm doing 7 kilos of ice in a 67% hydration  mix. I've gone to 8 kilos a couple times, never below 6. It's all in the feel and past mixes.

So yeah. I can give you the "recipe" but there's no way anyone comes close to my result. Doesn't mean mine is better or worse than yours or anyone's - it's just different...

« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 10:54:36 PM by Andrew Bellucci »
Bellucci's Pizzeria
37-08 30th Avenue
Astoria, New York

IG: @The_Bellucci

Offline wotavidone

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2057
  • Location: South Australia
  • A pizza is not a pie
Re: Don't underestimate the value of your post-mix workflow
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2022, 03:44:04 PM »
the top guys in the industry love to talk workflows and you'd be ASTOUNDED at the flours used - brand means  NOTHING. There's a guy at the very top of the NY game that buys his flour solely based on price - I'm talking whitelabels from mills that are never mentioned here. Because it's all about workflow.
This. I have made some of my best pizzas with house brand flours that could have come from just about anywhere in Australia.
Mick

A D V E R T I S E M E N T