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Author Topic: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?  (Read 893 times)

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Offline Nickv

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N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« on: October 02, 2022, 11:26:10 AM »
I am a nebbie and have a ooni koda 12, want to try something different than nep. Style
Can i make a new york style pizza on it ??
Any suggestions for recipe and cooking temp ?
Thank you
Nick

Offline Tony Pizzeria

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Re: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2022, 04:27:10 PM »
Go online or youtube and look for Tony Gemignani I believe he has a video on NY Style on the OONI

CIAO BABY

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2022, 07:03:02 PM »
I'd just start with any higher hydration NY Style dough recipe and probably cut the recommended sugar and oil in 1/2 (which I did from my go-to recipe).  Then follow the recommended dough prep for a 48-72 hour cold ferment. 

Gold Medal Full Strength was always my go-to flour for NY style bakes in my home oven at 550 but I just got an OONI Koda 16 as a gift and was out of GMFS flour.  I went with King Arthur Bread Flour which I generally was NOT A FAN of for NYS in the home oven but in the Koda it turned out great at this higher temp.  I launched at around a 725 hearth temp near the heat and 650 on the hearth furthest from the heat.  After the launch I turned it down to the lowest setting (not the secret low setting).  Rotated it 180 degrees as soon as the crust near the heat blackened to the point I like.  Really great spring with some bubbles that I love. 

One secret at these higher temps and shorter bake times for NYS is I laid the shredded Mozz down first, sprinkled with some grated Romano, then some drained canned shrooms (love canned shrooms), then some spirals of sauce over the top of all of that (just spirals) and followed that with pepperoni on the top and into the oven.  My reason for this was I wanted the cheese to melt and form kind of a boundary between the sauce and the crust so the bake of the higher hydration dough wasn't slowed by wet sauce directly on top of it (Remember Norma won the coveted Caputo Cup and she sauces over her cheese - not under!).  Saucing over the cheese also lets you get away with using "cheap cheese"... Low Moisture Part Skim common store brand mozz from the grocery store in the little blocks shredded... No need for the big loaves of the expensive stuff like Grande and such.  "Cheap cheese" will often brown up, dry out, burn up, etc. but it won't do that at these shorter, higher temp bake times if the sauce is spiraled over it on top and then the toppings. 

I never would have purchased this oven for myself but now that I've had the opportunity to bake in it and know what it can do I say it is worth every penny and I've not even started into the Neapolitan pies yet...  Only because it's winter here and my aftermarket door hasn't arrived yet.  Once the door gets here and I can get that hearth up to the 900 range then I'll start playing with that and traditional Neapolitan dough that eliminates all sugar and oil and uses "00" flour.

A few pics...  Yes, that's plain old KABF & "Cheap Cheese"!  Absolutely fantastic.  The pic of my "super shroom-a-roni" pie from the top makes it look much thicker than it really is.  See the side pics I took of the pie I made for my wife with the other 1/2 of the dough that had roni, onion & diced yellow pepper. 

These were 14" pies.  For me, sticking with 14" in the Koda 16 gives me room to work, slide them around a bit and I can keep them them further from the flame when I think they need to be pulled away a bit.  If I launched a 16" in there that took up all the space there is no room to slide it away from the flames... can only rotate it.  If you're going to make the dough and have an oven like this (be it the 16 or the 12) it's better to be able to make more, smaller pies so quickly that cater to various wants than one big pie.  If I had a Koda 12" I'd be making dough and cranking out maybe 4 or 5 customized 10" pies in no time.     





   

   
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 07:37:27 PM by Pizza Shark »

Offline scott r

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Re: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2022, 07:59:45 PM »
I love pizza like this... looks great shark!

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2022, 08:34:24 PM »
I love pizza like this... looks great shark!

Thanks Scott.  So my aftermarket door arrived for my OONI that would let me get to 900 degrees in the winter here with a fast pre-heat and I just started playing in this new Neapolitan realm.  Let's just say my 1st Neapolitan attempt with the new Neapolitan dough recipe at 900 degrees was incinerated in 60 seconds.  Luckily I made enough dough for 4 pies and dialed it back to the 750 range and things went much better with about maybe 3 minute bake times.  Going from 550 common max home oven temps to 700-750 cutting oil and sugar in 1/2 is one thing but that 900 degree range is like playing with a little open nuclear reactor... It's like you have to figure out "exposure time" to those temps and how to handle it.   I haven't figured it out yet but am working on it and posting on the Neapolitan thread.  I got a lot to learn about this Neapolitan thing at those temps.  Best advice I got was to take baby steps, learn from mistakes, and gradually increase my temps over time until I know how to "expose" the pie to that oven and actively manage the bake with my turning peel at those temps.  This new pursuit makes me happy though.  I kind of got bored with NYS as I couldn't improve any more on the kind of NYS pie I like and stopped posting much here for several years but this new adventure has engaged me again... A new challenge. 

I see you're from Boston.  That's where I learned how to make pizza working for Pizzeria Regina many years ago.  At some point some marketing guy told them they should change the name from Pizzeria Regina to Regina Pizzeria which is what everyone sees today but back in the day it was Pizzeria Regina.  I'll also say that me, you and many, many others here probably make far better pizzas than Pizzeria Regina ever made. There's marketing and history and maybe a 100-year old oven involved in the initial establishment but that doesn't make for great pizza, just great marketing.  The pies I've been making for decades in my home oven at 550 (same temp Regina bakes at) are way better than anything I ever made at Regina. 

So, everyone should think twice about trying to clone a pretty substandard yet famous pie as they can and produce so much better on their own.  Heck, Norma here who won the coveted Caputo Cup didn't know anything about pizza until she got on this forum and started learning.  Pizzeria Regina never won the Caputo Cup... They never even tried to compete because I bet they knew they couldn't compete.

   
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 09:18:18 PM by Pizza Shark »

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Offline OzPizza

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Re: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2022, 02:59:51 AM »
Thanks Scott.  So my aftermarket door arrived for my OONI that would let me get to 900 degrees in the winter here with a fast pre-heat and I just started playing in this new Neapolitan realm.  Let's just say my 1st Neapolitan attempt with the new Neapolitan dough recipe at 900 degrees was incinerated in 60 seconds.  Luckily I made enough dough for 4 pies and dialed it back to the 750 range and things went much better with about maybe 3 minute bake times.  Going from 550 common max home oven temps to 700-750 cutting oil and sugar in 1/2 is one thing but that 900 degree range is like playing with a little open nuclear reactor... It's like you have to figure out "exposure time" to those temps and how to handle it.   I haven't figured it out yet but am working on it and posting on the Neapolitan thread.  I got a lot to learn about this Neapolitan thing at those temps.  Best advice I got was to take baby steps, learn from mistakes, and gradually increase my temps over time until I know how to "expose" the pie to that oven and actively manage the bake with my turning peel at those temps.  This new pursuit makes me happy though.  I kind of got bored with NYS as I couldn't improve any more on the kind of NYS pie I like and stopped posting much here for several years but this new adventure has engaged me again... A new challenge. 

I see you're from Boston.  That's where I learned how to make pizza working for Pizzeria Regina many years ago.  At some point some marketing guy told them they should change the name from Pizzeria Regina to Regina Pizzeria which is what everyone sees today but back in the day it was Pizzeria Regina.  I'll also say that me, you and many, many others here probably make far better pizzas than Pizzeria Regina ever made. There's marketing and history and maybe a 100-year old oven involved in the initial establishment but that doesn't make for great pizza, just great marketing.  The pies I've been making for decades in my home oven at 550 (same temp Regina bakes at) are way better than anything I ever made at Regina. 

So, everyone should think twice about trying to clone a pretty substandard yet famous pie as they can and produce so much better on their own.  Heck, Norma here who won the coveted Caputo Cup didn't know anything about pizza until she got on this forum and started learning.  Pizzeria Regina never won the Caputo Cup... They never even tried to compete because I bet they knew they couldn't compete.

   

Just as an aside regarding Neopolitan pizza, I was asking my pizza guy locally about temps and why for example another pizza made by another place I know up near Sydney city, often has a seemingly soggy base while his one is never that way. This guy is the real deal from Italy and makes one hell of great Neopolitan (I'd call it benchmark for the many I've tried in this country). His words to me were that it's in the temp, he says if you tend too hot, over the 380c range (715F), the cheese doesn't have time to allow the moisture to evaporate and it ends up staying in the base. I thought that sounded entirely logical and definitely keep it in mind for whenever (if ever) I get around to firing up the woodfire oven my buddy's keeping at my farm. At the moment I'm still after all these years too focussed on making NY Style since there's still far too few of any examples that can get anywhere near close to it in restaurants here.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 03:05:22 AM by OzPizza »
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Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2022, 06:01:29 PM »
Just as an aside regarding Neopolitan pizza, I was asking my pizza guy locally about temps and why for example another pizza made by another place I know up near Sydney city, often has a seemingly soggy base while his one is never that way. This guy is the real deal from Italy and makes one hell of great Neopolitan (I'd call it benchmark for the many I've tried in this country). His words to me were that it's in the temp, he says if you tend too hot, over the 380c range (715F), the cheese doesn't have time to allow the moisture to evaporate and it ends up staying in the base. I thought that sounded entirely logical and definitely keep it in mind for whenever (if ever) I get around to firing up the woodfire oven my buddy's keeping at my farm. At the moment I'm still after all these years too focussed on making NY Style since there's still far too few of any examples that can get anywhere near close to it in restaurants here.

Well when it comes to NYS there are really 2 kinds in my opinion... There's NYS like I make in the pics above that is what you find from higher end NY Pizzerias like John's on Bleecker St. and there's NY "Street" that dominates.  Establishments that do that are known for cranking out 100's of cheap 18" pies a day, lightly sauced and cheesed, cut into 8 slices and selling them by the slice all day long from open to close that one can grab, fold in 1/2 and stuff in their face as walk down the street.  They each have their place but I'm not much of a fan of NY "Street".       

Here's a couple pics of John's Bleecker St. pies.  You'll notice they apply sauce over the cheese also as they are baking at temps higher than 550.
 

« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 06:37:18 PM by Pizza Shark »

Offline OzPizza

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Re: N.Y. Style on ooni koda 12?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2022, 08:53:27 PM »
Well when it comes to NYS there are really 2 kinds in my opinion... There's NYS like I make in the pics above that is what you find from higher end NY Pizzerias like John's on Bleecker St. and there's NY "Street" that dominates.  Establishments that do that are known for cranking out 100's of cheap 18" pies a day, lightly sauced and cheesed, cut into 8 slices and selling them by the slice all day long from open to close that one can grab, fold in 1/2 and stuff in their face as walk down the street.  They each have their place but I'm not much of a fan of NY "Street".       

Here's a couple pics of John's Bleecker St. pies.  You'll notice they apply sauce over the cheese also as they are baking at temps higher than 550.

Yeah nice. That's whole different thing to my post re full blown Neopolitan, woodfire that I was talking about in my post about high temps. Personally I've never been big on the overly 'Neo-Neopolitan' (or even too artisanal) NY Styles as to me they're just getting too close to what a Neopolitan is in itself which Is so well catered for so many places and I love. In NY Style, I like something that's a quality made slice with the right CF and importantly good cheese. My buddy went to John's speciifically a few years back after I'd been insisting he has to get across what a 'real' NY Pizza is (for like 20 years to him lol) as compared to rubbish we're so commonly served down here. He was an instant convert! I get they're definitely an adapted NY Style at John's. Me I need to get myself back to NY, its officially a travesty of how long I've been away in terms of decades! Two things I have to get back to after all these years, an actual restaurant made NY Pizza and NY Street dogs (another thing no one has ever matched for me outside NY).

I've got 3 pies to make tonight after a bit of break from making anything.Will see how it goes with a straight Bellucci formula with real AT Flour and 72 hour CF. I really liked his Joe's formula last time I made it. I've got to get off my backside and make some sauce today before I forget lol!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 08:57:44 PM by OzPizza »
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