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Author Topic: In search of the crisp  (Read 828 times)

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Offline Yaks19

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In search of the crisp
« on: October 23, 2022, 04:41:42 AM »
My most recent bake I changed up a couple of things, which I expected to produce a crispier base but haven't (thinner TF, higher gluten dough). My formula is:

400g for 16"
Canadian very strong bread flour (14.7% protein)
57% hydration
2.5% salt
1.5% sugar
2% olive oil
0.25% IDY

CF for 24 hours then leave to rise/warm up 3 hrs before stretching.

Think my stretch was fine and the dough handled beautifully.

Topped with 200g sauce and 200g cheese (1g/sq in).

Baked on a 1.5cm 16" pizza stone in 300C oven preheated for 1hr.

There was one other thing that I changed which was the cheese, using a slightly fattier wmlm cheese which seemed to form big bubbles (almost like a molten sheet on top) whereas before the cheese I used used to make the lacey appearance with the same amount of cheese.

Could the cheese have trapped steam (and forcing me to pull them out at 4mins vs my normal 5 min bake to stop it boiling over the sides) that caused the crust to remain soft rather than crisp? Or can I tweak the dough formula for extra crisp?

The base for have some good leopard spotting, though could have been a bit darker.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2022, 04:44:24 AM by Yaks19 »

Offline Swinger-mike

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2022, 05:29:13 AM »
lesser tf will do the exact opposite, a little higher tf will give you a better crisp as it is more sustainable to actually have some mass to carry everything.

more water will give you a better crisp due to better expansion of the dough.

cut the sugar, its hygroscopic and a dough tenderizer + you want to reduce all browing agents to a minimum if you look for a better crisp.

reduce or cut the oil.

bake longer.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2022, 05:33:42 AM by Swinger-mike »

Offline foreplease

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2022, 05:34:45 AM »
Iím using 405 g for 14Ē. My dough is 20% spelt, 80% BF I am using a higher hydration due to the speltís thirstiness. Iím baking 4-5 min on a screen, on the stone, then 4 min on the stone (remove screen) and I am very happy with the crisp. I use my electric ovenís bottom shelf at 500į convect roast (260į C). I am also using WMLM.


From that, the one thing that may help you is a lower temperature for more time. Iím not sure I understand the style you are after, but crisp is crisp. I think the lower temperature may tame your cheese melt a little too.Good luck. I hope this helps somewhat. Some photos may help others help you.


EDIT: I found a photo of the bottom of the one I described.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2022, 05:38:53 AM by foreplease »
-Tony

Offline Yaks19

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2022, 07:18:15 AM »
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I'm going for Joe's pizza, and from my research on this board seems to be a TF of 0.08 and 0.086 depending on 18" or 20".

My formula is pretty similar to Joe's:

100% all trump's flour
57% hydration
1.5% sugar
2.7% salt

My addition of 2% oil was because I was after a more tender crust/chew and reduced the salt to balance the salt in the toppings.
My previous formulations based on the above had been crisp(ish) with a TF of 0.08 on standard BF with VWG to bring up to 14% protein.

What I'm after is a crisp very thin layer on the base that then gives way to a tender/soft interior.

Perhaps the first change I should try is up the hydration to 59% and cut the oil? Or lower temp and bake longer? Or is it better to up the TF back to 0.08 first and take it from there?

There's only so much pizza I can eat in the name of science  :D

Offline foreplease

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2022, 07:55:06 AM »
Here is a short thread started by Andrew Bellicci that could help you. Itís an ode to simplicity IMO.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31477.0


There is a lot of great info in this longer thread that may help you, moreso with the work flow than a formula or recipe (but both are there). The combination of using a poolish and stretch and folds has been helpful to me. I describe the results as an eggshell crisp on the edge of the crust with a toast brown bottom. I believe the TG, which I never use, will be thicker than you would like. That/s an easy fix.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11994.0
-Tony

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Offline wiz_d_kidd

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2022, 08:35:03 AM »
What do you do when you remove the pie from the oven? Do you set it on a cooling rack to allow steam to escape the bottom crust, or do you set it on a counter/cutting board? Also, try using a pizza steel instead of a stone.

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2022, 10:49:06 AM »
What do you do when you remove the pie from the oven? Do you set it on a cooling rack to allow steam to escape the bottom crust, or do you set it on a counter/cutting board? Also, try using a pizza steel instead of a stone.

Yes, on a cooling rack for a bit before going to the cutting board..
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> Pizza Party Emizione, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline Yaks19

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2022, 01:23:05 PM »
Yeah I take it out onto a cooling rack.

What I don't understand was that I was getting crispier results with pretty much the same recipe and set up except that this time I changed a few variables: lower TF and different cheese, and replaced BF + VWG with Canadian strong flour with a higher protein content.

There was one other thing: I remembered that I used Brita filtered water, which has ion exchange to take out the minerals.

Offline foreplease

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2022, 06:56:08 PM »
Here is a short thread started by Andrew Bellicci that could help you. Itís an ode to simplicity IMO.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31477.0


There is a lot of great info in this longer thread that may help you, moreso with the work flow than a formula or recipe (but both are there). The combination of using a poolish and stretch and folds has been helpful to me. I describe the results as an eggshell crisp on the edge of the crust with a toast brown bottom. I believe the TF, which I never use, will be thicker than you would like. That/s an easy fix.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11994.0
EDIT: I wrote TG where I meant TF
-Tony

Offline BugBoyVT

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2022, 02:44:30 PM »
Sorry, but was is 'tf'?  I'm new here.
Feel free to private message me!

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Offline foreplease

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2022, 04:01:30 PM »
Thickness factor, but that is as much as I care to know about it. I consider dough weight and pizza size for a general impression from one time to the next. Iím not trying to clone another pizza or match a particular category - nor am I criticizing anyone who does.
-Tony

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: In search of the crisp
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2022, 04:40:14 PM »

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