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Author Topic: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage  (Read 267206 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #480 on: May 25, 2020, 06:02:58 PM »
00 Flour

That flour is really low gluten and absorption. You might try lowering the hydration to 58% and then work up from there.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #481 on: May 25, 2020, 08:36:51 PM »
Thanks Craig, I will give that a try and see how I go

Offline Cammy_17

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #482 on: May 26, 2020, 08:33:51 AM »
That flour is really low gluten and absorption. You might try lowering the hydration to 58% and then work up from there.

Thanks for the feedback Craig, much appreciated. With the low gluten and absorption of this flour, how will that impact the over all dough and fermentation time? Any changes to the process required to get the nice char and airy cornicione we are all after?

Also, what are your thoughts on mixing flours? I ask as I have a La Molisana Double Milled Durum Wheat Semolina Flour which is ~14% protein. Could I mix this with the 00 Flour?

I would order Caputo Blue but due to the pandemic it is almost impossible to get your hands on some so I've been trying to find some alternatives.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #483 on: May 26, 2020, 09:11:44 AM »
Thanks for the feedback Craig, much appreciated. With the low gluten and absorption of this flour, how will that impact the over all dough and fermentation time? Any changes to the process required to get the nice char and airy cornicione we are all after?

Also, what are your thoughts on mixing flours? I ask as I have a La Molisana Double Milled Durum Wheat Semolina Flour which is ~14% protein. Could I mix this with the 00 Flour?

I would order Caputo Blue but due to the pandemic it is almost impossible to get your hands on some so I've been trying to find some alternatives.

With that flour, it probably makes sense to keep fermentation to 24 hours or less. It's not a problem. 8-12 hours can make great pizza.

I'm not a flour blender. All I can say is try it and see if you still have problems after lowering the hydration and ferment time.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Cammy_17

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #484 on: May 26, 2020, 10:57:03 AM »
With that flour, it probably makes sense to keep fermentation to 24 hours or less. It's not a problem. 8-12 hours can make great pizza.

I'm not a flour blender. All I can say is try it and see if you still have problems after lowering the hydration and ferment time.

Thanks Craig. Appreciate it.

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Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #485 on: May 27, 2020, 09:03:45 PM »
Hi Craig, I tried 2% ischia and so far I am having the same problems - as soon as I ball up they start sagging,, and within a few hours they are like thick pancakes. I will try bulk for 36hrs and see if that helps.

I do suspect there is something else going on, like my preparation of the starter. It has crossed my mind that when I use the starter it is overacticated as it is super bubbly. maybe I should prepare the starter at 65F to slow down the fermentation a bit ? I always prepare at room temp but am starting to question that

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #486 on: May 28, 2020, 01:30:40 AM »
Or perhaps I should kneed it a little more to develop the gluten ?

I am using red bag caputo, and I think someone somewhere mentioned the caputo needs more kneading?


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #487 on: May 28, 2020, 07:44:01 AM »
Or perhaps I should kneed it a little more to develop the gluten ?

I am using red bag caputo, and I think someone somewhere mentioned the caputo needs more kneading?

It's probably not that unless you're balling right after mixing. Gluten will fully develop in 24 hours with zero kneading. Pictures of the dough would be very helpful - when first balled, when ready top open, just before topping, baked crust, crumb, etc. The more the better - high enough resolution to show detail.

What's your exact formula and workflow?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #488 on: May 28, 2020, 08:56:53 AM »
Hi Craig, thanks so much for getting back to me.
First thing I do is take 10gms of starter out the fridge and mix it with 10grms flour, and 10 grms of water. I then leave it to ferment for 10 hours or so until it is super bubbly. I am now thinking it might be past its best so I am considering reducing that time to 2-3 hours? That might help?

then I use:

100% red caputo
60% water
1.3 - 2% prepared ischia starter,
3% salt

From there on in I just follow your instructions precisely.

I will try and take some pics soon.

Offline WeatherWimp

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #489 on: May 28, 2020, 10:00:22 PM »
I've been trying to get a handle on this recipe and have two questions in case Craig or anyone else can answer.

1) Craig says to sub 0.024 IDY (see attached photo) as a starting point for his sourdough starter, yet when I follow 0.024 down to 48 hours I see the temperature would be about 60.5 degrees, yet the recipe is for circa 65 degrees. Why wouldn't 0.015 IDY be used (following 65 degrees over to 48 hours-ish on the baker's yeast chart)? 

If it is experience that has led to increasing from 0.015 to 0.024, how would one adjust for other temperatures?

2) For maintaining rt is it using the bottle of ice in a cooler and swapping out every 12 hours to keep it to that 65 degrees? I have much smaller coolers so will have to play around with a similar method to try to get a stable enough temp to try this recipe if so. Ambient indoor temp is going to run anywhere from 67 to 77 in my house this time of year.

Thanks!

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #490 on: May 29, 2020, 08:33:18 AM »
My fermentation temp has gone down since I wrote the how-to post back in 2012. It's now typically in the 60-62F range which is why 0.024%.

The need for some testing and tweaking should always be expected.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline WeatherWimp

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #491 on: May 29, 2020, 09:30:09 AM »
It's now typically in the 60-62F range which is why 0.024%.


Thank you for that, so I can follow the chart like I've been doing to find a starting point and then go from there to adjust as needed in subsequent tries.

For the temperature, are you using a basement or cellar or something? Or a setup with the frozen water bottle in a cooler bath?

Edit: Scratch that, I see in November of last year you mentioned you still do it with the cooler method.  Not sure I have a big enough cooler but no harm doing some tests I suppose.

Thanks for the excellent resources / experience you have shared.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 10:25:08 AM by WeatherWimp »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #492 on: May 29, 2020, 10:59:05 AM »
Yup. Still do the cooler. A wine fridge would be better, but I don't have a good place to put it.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #493 on: May 31, 2020, 08:59:30 AM »
These are my poorly taken pictures of my dough,

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #494 on: May 31, 2020, 09:01:04 AM »
The first 2 are bulk after 24 hrs at 65F

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Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #495 on: May 31, 2020, 09:02:01 AM »
The ball up nicely

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #496 on: May 31, 2020, 09:02:53 AM »
back into the cooler

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #497 on: May 31, 2020, 09:04:35 AM »
Then within another 24hrs - the dough loses its shape and resembles a fat pancake

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #498 on: May 31, 2020, 09:05:35 AM »
side profile

Offline kashmir107

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #499 on: May 31, 2020, 09:07:26 AM »
Still seems to have bubbles though which looks like it should be fermenting ? I just don't get the shape?

Sorry about my photography

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