Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Sicilian Style => Topic started by: scott r on November 01, 2006, 08:51:58 PM

Title: grandma pizza
Post by: scott r on November 01, 2006, 08:51:58 PM
I just was noticing the lack of info we have here on this wonderful style of pizza that is so popular around the NY area.  I first encountered this pizza a few years ago while visiting some friends on Long Island, and I have to say it left a great impression.  I made a few pies this weekend, but didn't take any pics, so I did a little research on the web and found this excellent article that does a great job of covering what this style is all about.

http://www.pmq.com/mag/2004march_april/secretrecipe.shtml

This weekend I made mine with the Tom Lehmann Sicilian pizza dough recipe that calls for 5% oil.  The texture was too cake like from all the oil and was not what I would consider an authentic grandma pizza dough. I am going to work up my own recipe the next time. Does anyone out there have any info on grandma pizza?   If so, I would love to hear about it.

EDIT (1/25/13): Since the link to the above article is no longer operative, see the Wayback Machine link to the same article at http://web.archive.org/web/20120120012709/http://www.pmq.com/mag/2004march_april/secretrecipe.shtml

Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: DNA Dan on November 01, 2006, 09:31:26 PM
In my family we have the exact same pizza style. Ironically, my last name is also Bruno. I don't think I am related to the person in the article, but hey, you never know.

Traditionally, my father would make this with anchovies and no sauce. (Aka white pizza) A good hit of red pepper and parmesan makes for a delicious treat! It comes out very close to a toasted Foccacia or very similar to a Deep Dish Chicago. I guess what separates this from the bunch is that it's a fairly light dough. It tastes more like a bread, less like a pizza crust. The olive oil is key to this style and it gives the crispy crust a very earthy flavor.

A few days before family holidays my father would make several "sheets" of this pizza. When family would come over he would whip out a few sections, cut them into little squares ~2" x 2" and toast them. It further gave the pizza a toasted texture on all sides. It was typically served with other dishes of olives, salted cod fish, pickled artichokes, all the typical carpachios and cold italian dishes. It was typically an appetizer snack food and not really a main dish.

Ahhh the love of being Italian.... :chef:

oh I forgot to add, this is WEST COAST dago style...
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Harv on November 02, 2006, 07:58:55 AM
I first had Grandma's style pizza about 5 years ago on Long Island.  It quickly became my favorite, supplanting my long held love of classic pepperoni pizza.  The pizza shown below (the same one as seen in my avatar) is a Grandma's style I made this summer.  It is round as opposed the usual square shape (I don't like stretching squares :) ).  It is topped with mozzarella, moderately zesty red sauce (6in1crushed plus spices), garlic, onion, fresh basil strips, my dry pizza blend of oregano, basil etc.  and typically a drizzle of olive oil, but I did not add it to this pie.   The areas of garlicky white, combined with occasional pools of sauce make an incredible flavor profile.   I have made this for pizza parties and it is often the favorite.  I encourage everyone on this board to give it a try.  You will not be disappointed.

Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Buffalo on November 02, 2006, 08:35:22 AM
Good Morning Harv;

I have NEVER seen a crust look better than yours!  Did it taste as good as it looks?  If willing, would you share the dough recipe?  Thanks.......
Buffalo :chef:
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Harv on November 02, 2006, 05:44:38 PM
It was a fine pizza.   I'll give you the recipe to the best of my knowledge but I don't think it is that significant in the end result.  I used Ceresota AP flour about 4 cups, 1.5 tsp salt, 1 tsp yeast, and water to about 60% hydration(guessing).  Hand kneaded for about 10 minutes after a 15 min rest in which 75% of the flour was hydrated and the remaining 25% worked in during kneading.  This was allowed to rest for 24h in the fridge and taken out three hours before cooking.  But the biggest difference is in the oven.  I had coals across the back and down both sides of the oven.  These coals really contributed to the oven spring and the wonderful browning of the crust.  I'm in the infancy of learning my oven so I am still experimenting just about every time I fire it.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Buffalo on November 02, 2006, 06:32:39 PM
Harv;

Thanks for the recipe and oven info.  It is evident that your coal oven is doing an excellent job and is taking pizza making to the "next" level.                                                            Buffalo
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Harv on November 03, 2006, 03:24:07 AM
Just to clarify,  my oven is just a wood burning oven.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: pizza king on November 06, 2006, 09:34:20 PM
I love that you guys brought up grandma...I lived on LI for four yrs and its the most popular kind of pizza there.. but each place makes it different... the original which I think there is actually a link in here some where for it is Umbertos in New Hyde Park which uses the fresh Mozz and Plum tomato sauce and garlic. Most place tasted pretty similar to there. There was another place that I though had the best but it was kind of different it was more like a Marinara slice which, Which is a Silcilian this was a place Ancona Pizzeria in Valley stream. Ancona's had a thick Silcilian with Oridinary Mozz they would pour the plum garlic sauce right on top... they would do a over night freeze on all the Silcilian doughs  ...and I have to say MMmmMMMMmmm...while there are serveral  others that had there  own variations on it.. There is another pizza i would love to see people try on here ...no one has mentioned it ... It is baked Ziti pizza only one place made it good that was La Piazza in Bellmore( 2 locations don't remember where the second one was) ...They were the only place I ever saw that would make a half slice pie they would ball up one side of the pie to make it so the all the fixings would not spill and they would have more fresh slices this way... One of the other places i frequented a lot..they new my name i went there so much was two brothers in levittown. they had a good baked ziti slice but they let it sit there all day so i only had once straight from the oven and it was real good...


Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: PizzaBrasil on November 07, 2006, 05:04:43 AM
I do not know if you could call the pizza in pictures of Grandma´s pizza.
Foccacia dough with a lot of EVOO, baked in wood oven.
Good taste, too bad pictures, sorry.

Luis
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Buffalo on November 07, 2006, 08:11:07 AM
PizzaBrasil;

ABSOLUTELY  FANTASTIC!!!  If you own a business people must be lined up for blocks to get into your pizzeria. 
Buffalo
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on November 07, 2006, 08:24:17 AM
There is another pizza i would love to see people try on here ...no one has mentioned it ... It is baked Ziti pizza only one place made it good that was La Piazza in Bellmore( 2 locations don't remember where the second one was)

pizza king,

I don't want to steer this thread off too far in another direction, but you might check out this thread on ziti pie: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1856.msg16406.html#msg16406.

Peter
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: pizza king on November 07, 2006, 09:58:56 AM
I got to get the ADD under control huh? ...yeah those look close to grandma. They are normally thinner Sicilian's ... one half the size of the Sicilian fresh mozz on the bottom.. cheese and sauce like in the link Scott put up  evenly spaced through the pizza then you put some olive oil on it and some garlic ...but you want to be pretty thin...
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: scott r on November 07, 2006, 12:54:48 PM
pizza king,  anconas is the first place I had grandma pizza.  Really great.  I did not know about the freezing of the pizza... are you sure about that?  At what point do they freeze it,   just the dough, dough with sauce etc.?
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: PizzaBrasil on November 08, 2006, 05:01:58 AM
New baking day. Another batch.
Grandma´s?
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: itsinthesauce on November 08, 2006, 09:01:45 AM
PB, is there a recipe for the dough? I don't recall seeing it.

Thanks!
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Buffalo on November 08, 2006, 10:27:19 AM
PizzaBrasil;

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE supply us with your recipes for your "grandma's pizza".  I, for one, think your efforts are unmatched in your particular type of pizza making and I would love to try duplicating your results.
Buffalo
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: DNA Dan on November 08, 2006, 03:32:46 PM
Man that kicks ass! Perfect balance of gooeyness and singe! I would say you have that one mastered. You're showing that on a prep board I see. Are you really Wolfgang Puck? That shot was taken in a restaurant ? no?
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: pizza king on November 08, 2006, 09:42:57 PM
pizza king,  anconas is the first place I had grandma pizza.  Really great.  I did not know about the freezing of the pizza... are you sure about that?  At what point do they freeze it,   just the dough, dough with sauce etc.?

I am pretty sure that is what they. They were putting the doughs in there in trays and putting they said the freezer they may have ment the frige... just the dough ..i don't remember it was like 4 yrs ago... hahah
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: PizzaBrasil on November 10, 2006, 06:51:48 AM
Buffalo:

Sorry by delaying the answer, quite busy.
The recipe that I used to the focaccia dough was the one that is in the site http//forums.egullet.org under the “Report on Dan Lepard´s baking day”.
There are a lot of pictures and steps that could be good to see.
However, please permit me to write the basics following:
The original dough formulae was

350g leaven (refreshed 24 hours earlier)
150g warm bottled sparkling water
1 tsp easy blend yeast
1 tsp malt extract
1 tsp runny honey
350g '00' flour
2 tsp fine sea salt
10 tbs extra-virgin olive oil

I did not use the malt extract.
The first pair of dough pictured in a baking pan was done as indicated and baked in hot wood oven, nice holes and smooth texture.
The second focaccia had an intermediate step. A biga was made with preferment and flour and left in the counter by 12 hours, then more flour and preferment was mixed resting for more 10 hours and finally the rest of the flour and the oil were added, and the dough was to the refrigerator by 20 hours.
The toppings of the focaccias are not the ones indicated in the original recipe as the focaccia accepts a lot of variation on it.
The first one of the couple had onions, oregano and muzz (always with generous quantities of EVOO), and the second one, tomato sauce, muzz, jam, oregano and sliced tomatoes.
The last and big one had tomato sauce, chopped onions, muzz, parmesan, sliced tomatoes and oregano.
At this moment I do not remember the exact quantities of the second dough. However I could write here by searching my notes.
That I remember is that the first recipe had a barker´s percent of 62%. The second recipe (because of the use of biga) was a little dryer, with around 55%. To have a wet dough, I increased the EVOO quantity (no record on this) a lot, just to have a sticky and very extensible dough. And more EVOO was added before baking!
It was topped in two minutes, baked in one and disappear from the pan in two seconds  :)
Even being preceded by 20 pizzas coming from the wood oven, it was the night star!



DNA Dan:

Thanks!
I am an engineer baking pizzas! Consequence, I had a lot of stuff (even made by myself or purchased) to make my life as simpler as possible (Do you figure that, an engineer thinking simple LOL)
These is a home made prep board.
The picture was taken by somebody when the pizza left the oven in a 35 pizza party that I am talking about in another thread.

Luis
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Buffalo on November 10, 2006, 08:28:30 AM
PizzaBrasil;

Thank you very much for the recipe/information.  I look forward to trying it very soon.
Thanks again.....
Buffalo ;D
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: PizzaBrasil on November 13, 2006, 10:27:35 AM
May be the following comments, as long as the last mails about focaccia, will need to be changed to focaccia thread. Anyway, just to complete the information of the focaccia recipe under the Grandma´s title, I am posting in this thread.

I had received the Camaldoli and Ischia ferments from Sourdough and I am feeding in regular bases. This gave me a lot of preferment that I decided not to waste.

Since the member Buffalo show interest in the focaccia recipe, I did another batch in this weekend, all together with two marguerites (Ischia and Camaldoli ones)
Because I had a barbecue and some dessert pies in the Sunday, the wood oven was not fed and the focaccia and marguerites were baked in the home oven at 450°F (too low, but this is it)
To the focaccia I had used a combination between the Camaldoli, Ischia and Carl´s preferment biga, mixed with water, honey, a little pinch of IDY and salt, with percentages as in the recipe and corrected to 450 grams of preferment.  Soy oil was used in the dough and EVOO over it, just before baking.
The biga rests 12 hours on counter, the focaccia dough (after doing the recipe steps) rests in refrigerator for about 6 hours, deflated, refrigerated 1h and a last rest of 1h on the counter.
The focaccia dough was oiled and pre-baked by 15 minutes before topped with tomato sauce, buffalo mozzarella, a lot of chopped onions, oregano and sliced tomatoes and then baked by another 20 minutes, until the bottom was brown.
It had a great ovenspring when pre-baked and exceeds the 1.5 inches of the pan.
Due to low temperature of the oven the onion in the toppings did not acquire the clear brown color that I expected an was little undercooking. The buffalo mozzarella, the sauce, tomatoes and dough were ok.
The focaccia seem bread like, mainly by the great ovenspring obtained. Smooth, good smelt, good at all. Light years behind the similar one made in wood oven (900°F, 3 min baked).

Follow some poor pictures taken during the work.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: PizzaBrasil on November 13, 2006, 10:30:26 AM
Last pictures

Luis
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Buffalo on November 13, 2006, 02:16:11 PM
PizzaBrasil;

You have taken your level of expertise to that of ARTISAN.....I am truly impressed!  Are you self taught?  Did you go to school for this?  Did a friend teach you?  It is very apparent that you have a true "knack" for pizza making and I congratulate you on your abilities.
Buffalo :chef:
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: mptpizza on January 22, 2007, 02:36:35 PM
Thanks for replies thus far. The Grandma pizza is different than the sicilian, particularly the crust, which is a bit thinner on the Grandma. The link to the discussion about how the Grandma is made is superb. I think probably the dough is a little thicker, but the same recipe.  Although Carlo claims nothing terribly unique, but quality ingredients, especially the oil it seems. Oiling the edges seems to give that nice extra crispy bottom, but the dough is so light and airy; how do they do that?

The homemade Cheese and sauce are just perfect; I always certain that they had to be doing this themselves, it could no be any commercial product.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Jack on January 23, 2007, 06:03:00 PM
but the dough is so light and airy; how do they do that?

My method - Once I've formed my, already room temperature dough to fit the pan, I let it sit, at room temperature for at least another 4-6 hours, so it can re-establish it’s texture.  I don't go heavy on the cheese, it's not needed, and the few dollops of tomato sauce don’t weigh down the crust.  I cook at 475°F for 16-18 minutes, which brings mine up to a light and airy 1.5 inch crust, just starting to brown on top and golden brown and crunchy on the bottom.  I use an all purpose or bread flour for this pie.  I once accidentally used KASL and after eating a single piece, I felt like I had swallowed a lead ball.  Yikes!

The hard part for me was getting a handle on how much olive oil (EVOO) to add around the edges of the pan.  In my eyes, when you can hear the crust sizzling as it fries, right before you remove it from the oven, you added enough oil.  I like to lightly deep fry some garlic cloves in the EVOO first, so it’s heavily garlic infused.  Yum!

Jack
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: lilbuddypizza on January 25, 2007, 10:17:25 AM
WOW!
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: RoadPizza on August 18, 2007, 09:37:06 AM
I've been playing around with a Grandma's recipe lately and I wanted to share some pictures.  There's a lot of oil involved - it's almost like you're frying the pizza in the pan.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: scott r on August 18, 2007, 12:25:06 PM
wow, that looks perfect.  Exactly like what i saw in Long Island.  The bottom pictured is just what we should all be shooting for.  Nice work!
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Bryan S on August 19, 2007, 01:43:58 AM
I've been playing around with a Grandma's recipe lately and I wanted to share some pictures.  There's a lot of oil involved - it's almost like you're frying the pizza in the pan.

RoadPizza, That looks freaking fantastic.  :chef: What dough recipe are you using, and did you use 2 different kinds of cheese? Awsome job on that pizza.  8)
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: RoadPizza on August 19, 2007, 04:22:45 AM
RoadPizza, That looks freaking fantastic.  :chef: What dough recipe are you using, and did you use 2 different kinds of cheese? Awsome job on that pizza.  8)

I used our standard dough recipe (so you can easily use your normal dough recipe).  Only mozzarella was used. 

I remember Umberto's of New Hyde Park.  Their Grandma's Pizza was/is to die for.  I'm glad to at least come close with that pie.  I'm still practicing it before we roll it out later this year.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: RoadPizza on November 12, 2009, 01:36:10 AM
We started working on a round Grandma's pie.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on June 03, 2010, 12:33:46 PM
Is authentic "Grandmother's pizza" typically made with Focaccia dough?

There's not much information about it. I'd like to see some actual authentic recipes as is used in New York pizzerias.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: scott r on June 03, 2010, 02:11:37 PM
 a normal new york style pizza dough is used for grandma style. Its just the pan frying and toppings that separate this from a typical NY style sicilian pizza. 
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: sear on June 10, 2010, 02:34:45 PM
wow, that looks perfect.  Exactly like what i saw in Long Island.  The bottom pictured is just what we should all be shooting for.  Nice work!

Hey scott, i live on LI.

what town were you in ? , remember the name of the pizza place ?

i would also add that the thickness of the Grandma slice is much less than that of a Sicilian slice, but a little thicker than a standard NY slice
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on August 06, 2010, 09:01:41 AM
Does anyone have a recommendation for a specific NY dough and technique to use for Grandma style?

I've tried a couple of different recipes, but it always turns out very similar to regular NY style. I would like to recreate the original Grandma pizza, as shown here: http://www.pmq.com/mag/2004march_april/secretrecipe.shtml
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: Pete-zza on August 06, 2010, 11:27:58 AM
You might check out the Chef Bruno video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H54jmWXPaMU for some clues. For example, knowing the weight of the dough (22 ounces) and using the surface area of the pan (which looks to be a half sheet pan), you can calculate the thickness factor of the skin. Then you might use a Sicilian or NY style dough formulation to make the dough.

Peter
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on August 08, 2010, 11:20:55 AM
You might check out the Chef Bruno video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H54jmWXPaMU for some clues. For example, knowing the weight of the dough (22 ounces) and using the surface area of the pan (which looks to be a half sheet pan), you can calculate the thickness factor of the skin. Then you might use a Sicilian or NY style dough formulation to make the dough.

Peter

I have checked out that video in the past, but it doesn't go into recipe details.

I think Grandma pizza is made with a dough that is a variation of NY style, except it might take more oil and less yeast. Instead of reinventing the wheel, I was hoping someone already had a recipe that worked good for this style.

Thanks for your help, though.
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: norma427 on August 08, 2010, 11:36:56 AM
IEatPizzaByThePie,

I don’t know if this will help you are not, but here is where I made a grandma’s pie. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10284.msg91453.html#msg91453 You can see the ingredients I used there.  It turned out very good in my opinion, but it wasn’t round. If you decided to try out this formula you wouldn’t have to add the durum flour.  I was just experimenting with that. You also could use a higher thickness factor if you want the grandma’s pizza thicker.

Norma
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: PizzaHog on September 04, 2010, 01:01:54 PM
After not baking a pie in months thanks to the heat, a visit from guests from Brooklyn requesting pizza forced my hand - finally!  I made a NY street, Detroit style and had to try one of these although I never personally ate one myself.  Some changes will be made on the next one but it was pretty good as it was and one Brooklyn guest said the crust was way close although a bit thinner than the norm.
The tomatoes were standout excellent even though a deviation from authentic.  I picked up some fresh Roma's from the Farmer's Market and roasted them off first with garlic and a little OO then peeled them.  Wow!  I wish I had roasted more and will next time.  Thanks to Norma for her posts on this idea!
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: norma427 on September 04, 2010, 01:06:53 PM
After not baking a pie in months thanks to the heat, a visit from guests from Brooklyn requesting pizza forced my hand - finally!  I made a NY street, Detroit style and had to try one of these although I never personally ate one myself.  Some changes will be made on the next one but it was pretty good as it was and one Brooklyn guest said the crust was way close although a bit thinner than the norm.
The tomatoes were standout excellent even though a deviation from authentic.  I picked up some fresh Roma's from the Farmer's Market and roasted them off first with garlic and a little OO then peeled them.  Wow!  I wish I had roasted more and will next time.  Thanks to Norma for her posts on this idea!

PizzaHog,

Your Grandma's pie looks delicious!   ;D Wish I could have been there to try a slice.  You did a great job.

Norma
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: JConk007 on September 09, 2010, 04:34:41 PM
Just goiong thru some old pics cleaning house and realize I never put up these Grandma shots from early sping indoor oven. Thin crust square, oiled pan.  cheese first, then  plop the chunky garlic Plum Tomatoe sauce  all around
enjoy!!
Title: Re: grandma pizza
Post by: fcbuilder on September 12, 2010, 12:09:41 PM
john wow those look so good just like the pies i used to get at umberto's in nhp long island.can you  share a link to the recipe or tell me your methods for making these awesome pie's. thanks fc.