Commercial Dough Enzymes or Enhancers to do Tests in Pizza Dough

[norma427]

I could have made it easier on myself if I had copied and scanned the other part of the document the way I did the last two.  At least I wouldn't have had to type all the other stuff. At least I learned there is an easier way to post documents. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I did email John last evening to ask him what kind of yeast was in the formula in the pdf.document he sent me.  John sent me an email this morning and said he doesn’t know what type of yeast was used in that formula.  I think I will just go with a regular Lehmann dough formula with a hydration of 61% because the amount of water in the formula in the document seems really low to me.  I don’t think I have ever made a NY style dough with that low of a hydration.  I don’t even know if someone tried that formula out.

Norma,

From the dough formulation you posted and from the related preparation steps, I would say that the 1% yeast is intended to be cake yeast. So, for ADY you would use 0.50% and for IDY you would use about 0.33%. You are correct that the formula hydration is on the low side. It will actually be higher or lower than 52.5% depending on whether the malt product is wet or dry. The 1.5% oil will also have a "wetting" effect. The dough formulation you posted most reminds me of the original Big Dave Ostrander Old Faithful dough formulation.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

From the dough formulation you posted and from the related preparation steps, I would say that the 1% yeast is intended to be cake yeast. So, for ADY you would use 0.50% and for IDY you would use about 0.33%. You are correct that the formula hydration is on the low side. It will actually be higher or lower than 52.5% depending on whether the malt product is wet or dry. The 1.5% oil will also have a "wetting" effect. The dough formulation you posted most reminds me of the original Big Dave Ostrander Old Faithful dough formulation.

Peter

Peter,

Interesting, just from the formula I posted, and the preparation steps you thought the 1% yeast was intended to be cake yeast. I still don’t know how you figure out that stuff. Thanks, for figuring out the amounts or ADY and IDY.  I remember trying out the Old Faithful Dough in this thread with EL-7 and I thought that was a dry dough, but the EL-7 made that dough seem wetter.  I will wait until I get the malt sample, and then decide what kind of formula I might want to try.  Maybe, I might try the dough formula posted with malt and cake yeast.

Norma

[norma427]

I received the sample of Dry Malt DME-B this afternoon. 

Norma

[norma427]

I made an experimental dough last evening using the Dry Malt DME-B in the dough.  I don’t know if the amount of Dry Malt DME-B was the right amount to use, but I just went from Peter’s post at Reply 217 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13820.msg154075.html#msg154075  that the baker’s percent for dry malt is 2.5%, so that is what I used in the expanded dough calculation tool, and used the Non-Diastatic Barley Malt Syrup as the proxy. 

I have no idea how the pizza will turn out using that amount of Dry Malt DME-B in the formula I used, but the dough does have a nice color.

This is the formula I used, and also a pictures of the dough last night and this morning.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

The dough with the Dry Malt DME-B product was made into a pizza yesterday.  The dough handled so beautifully and easily stretched to a 18” pizza, even though I only wanted to open the skin to 16”. The dough could have been tossed and twirled, but I didn’t open it that way.  The finished pizza was crisp on the bottom crust, and slightly crisp on the rim, with a fairly moist crumb.  The only thing Steve and I didn’t like about this experimental pizza was there didn’t seem to be much of any taste in the crust, even though I basically used a Lehmann dough formula with added DME-8 dry malt.  The dough was almost cold fermented for two days.  The characteristics I did like using the DME dry malt, was the crisp bottom crust and the slightly crisp rim.  I wonder what should be my next experiment with the DME-B Dry Malt product to find if I can produce a better pizza.

Norma   

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

I received another sample of Dry Malt from John Johansen today.  I don’t even know how much of this Dry Malt to put in a formula, or if he wants me to try it with 50% molasses and 50% Dry Malt.  I did send an email to John saying since the Dry Malt is less sweet than molasses, honey, or brown sugar, how this might work to give a crust a sweeter taste.  I didn’t get any response to that email and don’t know what the data sheets might say for this Dry Malt product.  I don’t even know how this Dry Malt product differs from the last sample of Dry Malt John sent me.

Norma

[norma427]

Peter,

I had sent John an email to ask him if he had any technical information on the Dry Malt 377 product sample he sent me recently and asked him if this was the dry malt product he had want me to try with 50/50 molasses and dry malt.  He sent me this technical information in a document, but it wasn’t a pdf. document.  For some reason I couldn’t open the document, and then emailed John to see if he could send me the document another way.  He sent me this in an email.

 DRY MALT EXTRACT - 377

TYPICAL ANALYSIS

A brown free flowing powder with a very distinct malt flavor and aroma.  This product is GMO free and of U.S. origin.

                                Ingredients                                                                         Malt

                                Moisture                                                                             4.0% Maximum

                                Reducing Sugars                                           as Anhydrous Maltose)   65% Minimum                                         
                   
                                Enzyme Activity                                                                Nil

                                pH                                                                                          5.0  ±

Do you think an experiment with the new dry malt product DME 377D that John sent me would be of any use to see what happens with adding DME 377D 50/50 with molasses in a pizza dough, or do you think I should forget the experiment?  I have no idea how a pizza dough would turn out using the dried malt product in combination with molasses on a 50/50 amount.

http://www.maltproducts.com/news.whatismalt.html

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Do you think an experiment with the new dry malt product DME 377D that John sent me would be of any use to see what happens with adding DME 377D 50/50 with molasses in a pizza dough, or do you think I should forget the experiment?  I have no idea how a pizza dough would turn out using the dried malt product in combination with molasses on a 50/50 amount.

Norma,

Knowing that you had received the DME 377D malt product from John, I did wonder how it might be used to make an MM clone dough, including combining it with molasses. However, since we have been so distracted recently by the steady run of experiments at the MM thread, I did not devote much thought as to how the DME 377D product might be used. What is not clear is how much DME 377D malt product might be used with a molasses product and what effect the combination will have on taste and color. For example, the DME 377D spec sheet shows 65% reducing sugars in the form of anhydrous maltose, but as you can see from the relative sweetness chart at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Relativesweetness.png, maltose has a relatively low sweetness factor relative to sucrose. If a lot of it has to be used to get the sweetness up, even with a sweetener like the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses or the Steen's 100% pure cane syrup, you may end up with a dough and crust that is too dark. Of course, if the color is of no consequence then you could perhaps use a lot of the DME 377D product.

I think the combination of malt flavor and the flavor of molasses or pure cane syrup might combine to produce a tasty crust. I personally do not think that Mellow Mushroom is using a malt product, so maybe after we have concluded our work over at the MM thread we can think about a way of best using the DME 377D malt product, even if it is not for an MM clone.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Knowing that you had received the DME 377D malt product from John, I did wonder how it might be used to make an MM clone dough, including combining it with molasses. However, since we have been so distracted recently by the steady run of experiments at the MM thread, I did not devote much thought as to how the DME 377D product might be used. What is not clear is how much DME 377D malt product might be used with a molasses product and what effect the combination will have on taste and color. For example, the DME 377D spec sheet shows 65% reducing sugars in the form of anhydrous maltose, but as you can see from the relative sweetness chart at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Relativesweetness.png, maltose has a relatively low sweetness factor relative to sucrose. If a lot of it has to be used to get the sweetness up, even with a sweetener like the Golden Barrel Supreme Baking Molasses or the Steen's 100% pure cane syrup, you may end up with a dough and crust that is too dark. Of course, if the color is of no consequence then you could perhaps use a lot of the DME 377D product.

I think the combination of malt flavor and the flavor of molasses or pure cane syrup might combine to produce a tasty crust. I personally do not think that Mellow Mushroom is using a malt product, so maybe after we have concluded our work over at the MM thread we can think about a way of best using the DME 377D malt product, even if it is not for an MM clone.

Peter

Peter,

I had also wondered how John thought that any kind of malt product would bring the sweetness level up enough, because I had explained some of the experiments I had done with other sweeteners in combination with molasses in the MM clone doughs.  I also don’t think MM is using a malt product either, but after the MM thread wraps-up, I would like to try a couple experiments with the recent malt sample John sent me in combination with some kind of molasses product.  I like the taste of molasses in the crust, even if there isn’t much sweetness in the crust.  It should be interesting to see what a malt product also brings to the table with molasses products.

Norma

[norma427]

I consolidated all my samples in one place and got rid of the big boxes of samples.  Those darn big boxes sure felt like they got heavier from the last time I lifted them. Either that or I am getting weaker.    If any of them might still be good and are needed for any experiments at least I know where to look now.  The samples from Caravan are now in smaller plastic bags.  At least the samples aren’t taking up as much space now. 

Norma