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Author Topic: Non extensible dough problems  (Read 763 times)

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Offline pizzascott

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Non extensible dough problems
« on: April 20, 2017, 05:06:27 PM »
So I've made this dough twice now and only had enough time to let it ferment for about 6hrs. The dough balls are extremely elastic and impossible to stretch into a circle. What's most likely the problem here?

500g - Cupto 00 flour
300ml - Water
10g - Salt
6g - IDY

I'm following the basic instructions here: http://www.pizzadough101.com/
The dough never gets velvety as they describe in the recipe.

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 05:38:59 PM »
Not enough fermentation time but could be exacerbated by a finished dough temperature that is too cold....what was your finished dough temperature? You IDY level is also quite high at 1.2% (a more typical level is 0.25 to 0.5%). Are you baking at 750+ F? If not you might try changing over to a strong bread type flour such as Pillsbury Bread Machine Flour, available from most supermarkets (this is especially true as you are not using any sugar in your dough formula. With a long RT fermentation period I would suggest adding 2% sugar to the formula to help support a vigorous fermentation rate.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pizzascott

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 06:59:42 PM »
Agreed, I'll try longer fermentation next time. Finished dough temp was around room temp so 70 to 75F.
What typically causes dough to be hard to work? I was thinking it was a flour to water ratio problem. I can't get it stretched to save my life.

I think I'm baking way too hot, like 1,000F+ as I'm getting charred black bottoms on my pizzas. Gonna try keep the temp lower.


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 07:32:11 PM »
Your dough absorption is at 60%. How does the dough feel after mixing?
Try to drop your baking temperature to around 800F. What oven are you using? What is your present baking time? If you can send a picture of the dough after mixing it might help us in assessing what the problem might be due to. If you are planning to use a short RT fermentation time such as 6-hours I would suggest increasing the finished dough temperature to something in the 80 to 85F range for a faster fermentation rate.
How are you adding the IDY to the dough? This can impact the fermentation rate too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pizzascott

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 12:09:52 AM »
I'm doing by best to follow this recipe by Craig: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20477.msg202047.html#msg202047

My dough turns out rubbery after mixing. I let it sit for 10 minutes and then fold a couple of times and it looks like this:
https://vimeo.com/iamscottwild/review/214118819/360bba70df

I feel like there's too much gluten or something. What do you think?

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 12:48:57 AM »
I see a an extensively under mixed dough. I also don't see any starter in your dough formula? As you are machine mixing the dough I would suggest going with a longer mixing time to achieve more gluten development. Seldom can you follow a dough formula precisely step by step in a different environment and get the same end results. Even with mixers, you can easily see as much as a 10 to 15% variance in mixing time between two mixers of the same make and model. Also note that Craig mentions using 62.5% absorption which figures out at 312.5-grams for your 500-grams of flour weight. If you are using the same mixer as Craig is remember that dough development in any planetary mixer is influenced by the amount of dough in the mixing bowl. Then too, in Craig's formula he says not to use less than 2.5% salt (12.5-grams per 500-grams of flour weight.
I think mixing your dough a bit longer and allowing it to rest at room temperature for 30 to 60-minutes immediately after mixing will make a world of difference.
Just my observations
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pizzascott

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 01:07:23 AM »
Thanks TDD,
The batch you see in the video was made using Craig's ratios, not the numbers quoted in the original post.
I've attached my exact numbers below.
I also mixed everything exactly according to his directions. I can't see how mixing it even more would make it less rubbery. I thought over mixing the dough is quite easy to do?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 11:15:43 AM »
Almost impossible to over mix a dough (referencing gluten development) with any of the home mixers and flat out impossible to do it by hand mixing. Biochemical gluten development is by far the best way to achieve gluten development. If the picture is of your dough being stretched, the dough is just pulling apart and tearing due to insufficient gluten development.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pizzascott

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 12:10:09 PM »
Ah, now it's starting to make sense. So what we're seeing is not enough gluten formation. I must mix it more in order for that to develop.
Thanks, I'll experiment again soon.

By the way, this is what the dough looks like after letting it sit overnight at 66F. Is this how it's supposed to look? When I put it in the container it was a standard size dough ball.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Non extensible dough problems
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 12:28:05 PM »
Looks about right, nice and "mellow" (soft and extensible/doesn't look to be sticky at all).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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