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Author Topic: Dough FAIL!!!!  (Read 815 times)

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Offline PJPIZZA

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Dough FAIL!!!!
« on: April 17, 2018, 12:09:46 PM »
Kind of a newbie, tried for years to get the perfect Neapolitan and kind of gave up. BUT with my new Pizza Party oven I can see my goal is attainable, just needed that 850 deg.
I have a pretty good- go to dough that's done me well,
Caupto 00, 64% hydration, .5% ADY, 2% fine sea salt. In KA with hook I mix until incorporated (maybe 4 min on low), rest 5min, mix on low 5min, rest 5 min then another 5/8 min. Out of [email protected], I ball and CF for 36/48 hrs.
As I read, study, experiment  (and I also attend the university of you tube), it seems the least kneading the better, some say less hydration, some say more. Last week we drove into Hollywood and ate at Prova Pizzeria, (Vito Iacopelli) Vito says he uses NO yeast with 24 hr RTF ?????
So I tried my go-to with a 24hr RTF (aprox 70deg) and FAIL, it was waaaay over fermented, couldn't slide it onto the peel without tearing it.
My question is, will maybe .2% ADY work or is 24 hrs @ 70deg just way too much?
Also I find if I Knead any less it wants to tear when balling.

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Dough FAIL!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 12:40:09 PM »
My question is, will maybe .2% ADY work or is 24 hrs @ 70deg just way too much?
Also I find if I Knead any less it wants to tear when balling.

See reply 399
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.380

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Dough FAIL!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 12:41:23 PM »
Here's a much-lauded time-temperature table for yeast: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model

(The chart gets bigger if you click on it).

According to the chart, you'd want about 0.03% ADY for 24hrs at 70F RT.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:43:55 PM by vtsteve »
In grams we trust.
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough FAIL!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 01:00:19 PM »
0.5% ADY is equivalent to 1% compressed yeast (CY) which is wwaayy too much yeast for a 24-hour room temperature fermentation period especially with Caputo "00" flour which isn't especially fond of long fermentation times. Using Caputo "00" flour the longest I have been able to ferment it is 24-hours CF, at 48-hours it was deemed to be marginally usable. I would suggest starting at 0.1% and work up from there. You can always give a dough extra fermentation time but it's difficult to take it away.
No yeast? Sure no "added" yeast. A sourdough leavened dough might be said to have no yeast, no added yeast that is, but within the sourdough itself you have both yeast and bacterial fermentation taking place which will leaven the dough quite nicely. I only wish I had a dime for every time someone said we don't use any sugar in our dough, but strangely, there is honey in it....guess honey doesn't qualify as a form of "sugar" even though its constituent ingredients are fructose and dextrose.
As for your question on mixing, the optimum mixing time for most pizza doughs appears to be JUST enough mixing to allow the dough to be balled without the skin tearing as the ball is formed, this is assuming you're not trying to make your dough balls tighter than a golf ball is wound. You can see the change in the mixing bowl during mixing as the dough will begin to stretch (sheet is the correct term) thus reflecting light creating what appears to be a brighter colored dough with a satiny appearance. If your mixer has a "J" hook you may never be able to see this due to the poor mixing action of the "J" hook.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline PJPIZZA

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Re: Dough FAIL!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 02:33:59 PM »
Thanks so much guys, the chart is priceless!.
I will continue with my quest. I suspected "no yeast" doesn't really mean no yeast, I'm sure they are using some kind of starter.

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough FAIL!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 04:12:12 PM »
PJPIZZA,

You might get some hints and tips from this thread:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7225.msg62332#msg62332

You will also note that I made a pizza without any yeast at all, as described in Reply 84 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7225.msg78779#msg78779

The best explanation I was able to muster for making a pizza without using any yeast is Reply 125 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=35873.msg363650#msg363650

I agree with you that in a commercial setting, it is likely that a natural yeast was used.

Finally, you will note that I suggested that members use Craig's chart, in a post at Reply 176 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7225.msg393294#msg393294

Good luck with your next pizza.

Peter

Offline PJPIZZA

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Re: Dough FAIL!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 11:01:28 AM »
Pete, your research is amazing, it only lets me know how long this road is and hopefully learning from you, and many others, I can shorten my journey.

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