Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => American Style => Topic started by: stevenmhinde on August 16, 2004, 05:11:52 PM

Title: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: stevenmhinde on August 16, 2004, 05:11:52 PM
Hello, I'm new to your forum and I was hoping someone here may have the recipe to Shakey's pizza sauce.  This would have been their 'older' style sauce that was from the mid/late 80's-very sweet and delicious!  I'm not sure why they EVER changed sauce recipes but the older sauce was excellent. Please help!!!  Thanks
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: rjfp on September 19, 2004, 07:51:49 AM
your right shakey's had a great sauce.. try hunts meat flavored spageghetti sauce.. add a little onion powder and garlic powder less garlic powder.. i add a drop of olive oil  just because i can.. good luck

rjfp
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: ftlrico on October 25, 2004, 12:07:36 PM
My brother was a manager for Shakey's in Sacramento, and I was cook/beertender the end of the 70's through the 80's until it closed for good. He and I am also looking for the sauce recipe! The owner's names were Gary Brown and Jay Halverson. Any help would be appreciated, and many remembered recipes for original, thick-crust, Chicago-style, deep-dish, etc. can be given out by us.

thanx, ftlrico
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on October 25, 2004, 12:20:26 PM
Please share the original thin crust recipe! Please!!  :)
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: ftlrico on October 25, 2004, 12:28:56 PM
I will be seeing my brother this weekend, and will get the recipe from him and post it Monday, Nov. 1.
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: canadave on October 25, 2004, 12:42:24 PM
Heck, recipes for ANY of the pizzas mentioned would be great.  I'd like to see the original and deep-dish recipes :)

Dave
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: RedGreene on October 25, 2004, 01:43:26 PM
I'm not sure if this helps at all, but I was searching the Hawkeye Food Service distribution website and found a few interesting things.  According to this site, Shakey's pizza uses a "Heinz" brand pizza sauce base.  I'm not sure how many Heinz sauces there are available, but I do know that my disributor(GFS) only carries one.   Hope this helps.
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: canadave on October 25, 2004, 02:23:59 PM
Hmmmm, interesting...I tried some Heinz pizza sauce a while back that I found at a local grocery wholesaler...it wasn't too good :(
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: RedGreene on October 25, 2004, 02:27:18 PM
Here's the link to the website...

http://www.hawkeyefoodservice.com/products/keysearch.asp?PPSC=0040&PPC=036
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on November 03, 2004, 03:05:28 PM
I will be seeing my brother this weekend, and will get the recipe from him and post it Monday, Nov. 1.

Did you get that dough recipe yet?
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DeBee on November 11, 2004, 12:05:32 AM
The Pennsylvania Macaroni Company lists a Heinz product called Shakeys Sauce...   Hmmm, you might want to check that one out!
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: RedGreene on November 11, 2004, 10:46:19 AM
I just looked at their website and couldn't find any heinz product.  Do you have a link?  How did you find it?
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Pete-zza on November 11, 2004, 11:59:51 PM
I have a fairly recent listing of all the products sold by PennMac and was unable to find any Shakey's sauce offered by Heinz or anyone else.  I saw a Hunts pizza sauce, but not Heinz.

The best way to find out for sure is to just call PennMac at 1-800-223-5928 and ask for Rose.  She should be able to tell you whether the Shakey's sauce is something they sell.

Peter
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DeBee on November 12, 2004, 06:22:51 PM
My apologies.  What happens when you are surfing the web for pizza stuff late night??? :-[

I didn't see it at PennMac either.  I saw it on a spreadsheet like list of tomato products on a webpage that I have yet to find again...  I do have a memory of it being a Heinz product- made a mental note (should have made a favorites link).  I'm going to continue to look...

Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on November 12, 2004, 07:26:22 PM
My apologies.  What happens when you are surfing the web for pizza stuff late night??? :-[

I didn't see it at PennMac either.  I saw it on a spreadsheet like list of tomato products on a webpage that I have yet to find again...  I do have a memory of it being a Heinz product- made a mental note (should have made a favorites link).  I'm going to continue to look...

Was it this link:  ???

Here's the link to the website...

http://www.hawkeyefoodservice.com/products/keysearch.asp?PPSC=0040&PPC=036
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DeBee on November 12, 2004, 10:41:54 PM
I'll be damned! ::)

Yes, that is the link!  My memory isn't totally shot...

Thank you, Steve
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Ponerspal on December 07, 2004, 07:41:56 PM
I worked at a Shakeys in CA from 1980 to 1995. The original sauce recipe was made up from scratch, using canned tomato puree as the base. It was very spicy and distinct. In the early 80's, as the company began to expand, more of the products had to be purchased from distributors. Dough came in mixes, and sauce came in a bag in a box.

Ours was one of the original Shakey's, and we hung on until forced to move from the original recipes to the packaged product.. It was especially noticeable in the sauce, with the new sauce being quite bland.

It's been over twenty years, but I think that I have the original sauce and thin dough recipes. These would be the original full size recipes, and would have to be scaled down. But I was looking to see if the sauce recipe was online before comitting to the search.

Scott
Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on December 08, 2004, 07:40:15 AM
Scott,

Please share your recipes, I will be happy to scale them down.  :)

Steve
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: stevenmhinde on February 18, 2005, 12:10:14 PM
Thanks for all your responses and efforts on the Shakey's sauce search!  I hope someone will come across this eventually and share their wisdom with us!  On a similar note: I have always thought that "Happy Joe's" pizza was excellent and very similar to the sauce that Shakey's used. Kind of sweet tasting!  If anyone knows the recipe secrets for Happy Joe's that would great! Thanks again,
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: yonkiman on April 24, 2005, 06:35:57 PM
I just found this thread, got more and more excited as I saw that at least one if not two respondents probably had the Shakey's ORIGINAL (drool!!!!) recipe, and then...nothing!

I definitely noticed the change in the 80s - I'd give anything to be able to taste an early Shakey's pizza one (or many) more time!

Fingers crossed for a response,
Fred
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: ftlrico on May 19, 2005, 02:56:42 PM
I'm glad another Shakey-ite from CA. in the 80's has surfaced! PLEASE!, PLEASE!, PLEASE!, share the original sauce recipe!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Jim on May 29, 2005, 12:27:33 AM
I still go to every Shakeys that I can find.  There is one in Oroville, CA, and couple in Bakersfield, CA, and multiple ones in the Los Angeles area.

I sure would love to be able to make my own from scratch at home, even if I had to have the ingredients shipped from out of state, it would be worth it.

Thanks, Jim
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Rodney on May 30, 2005, 09:21:37 AM
So do I!!!!! I've got the dough recipes, but not the sauce. You find the sauce, I'll supply the crust!!!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on May 30, 2005, 08:10:05 PM
So do I!!!!! I've got the dough recipes, but not the sauce. You find the sauce, I'll supply the crust!!!

Rodney,

Please share your dough recipes!  :)
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Dave on June 06, 2005, 04:44:20 PM
Why did this fall apart ?
I remeber the Shakey's Pizza joint and the crust, sauce and the cheese ( wish I could find out what cheese or cheeses used)
Please respond anyone with the info!!!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Danny on June 11, 2005, 09:17:20 PM
Shakey's was the absolute best pizza I have ever eaten, and what I strive to match when I make one.  I wish someone could come up with a recipe that was at least close.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: 007bond-jb on June 12, 2005, 08:48:55 AM
Today I'm going fishing with one of my old buddies who worked at a Local Shakeys .. I will get as mutch info as he can remember since this Shakeys closed in the mid 80s... Look for a follow up post tomorrow
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: pftaylor on June 12, 2005, 10:00:17 AM
Bond.

James Bond.

Men want to be like him. Women want to be with him. Fish are afraid of him. What a great life.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: 007bond-jb on June 13, 2005, 08:01:12 AM
Ok here is what I got...  The Baton Rouge Shakeys opened in the late 60's & closed in the late 80's My friends worked there in mid 70's they were all in their teens. a typical work shift had 3 pizza makers & 1 assistant manager. The pizza makers would make the sauce, build the pizzas cut em, plate em & callout you order #. The assistant mang. would mix & make the skins take orders & serve beer. On weekends sometimes the manager would help out when they were busy. All the ingredients came from a local food service supplier, NONE of them had Shakeys name or logo on them. A 50# bag  labled flour was the dough's not so secret recipe. The assistant mang. would simply use a large scoop to dump flour into the Hobart mixer then pour in water till IT LOOKED RIGHT!!! If he wasen't busy taking orders he would take it out & place the dough on the flour table by the sheeter. (if he was busy with customers it would mix longer otherwise soon as a ball formed the mixer was shut off) NO RISE TIME NO PROOFING. You'all need keep in mind this was a busy place. If they were out of 1 size skin he would only mix up enough to make what he thought would last through the shift or day. Back to the skin making, No measurement was used here either If he was making a medium he would cut off a hunk of dough maybe the size of his fist, a large was a fist & a half The dough was floured pressed into a rough shape then into the sheeter flour was added as needed during sheeting It was then cut to size and stacked on top prevously made skins with pre cut wax paper between & stacked on a pizza tray. If all wasen't used it would go into the cooler till the next day. Now for the sauce Hunts gallon size cans of tomatoe sauce was poured into a large rubbermaid garbage can along with a seasoning package that came from the food service supplier at  a ratio of 1 can Hunts to 1 pack seasoning. My buddie says the the finished sauce tasted close to Prego spagatti sauce. The 1/2  cup or so size mix bag had oregano onion & garlic powder parsly salt & pepper as well as a hint basil. My buddie is guessing here but he makes his own sauce that  taste just like Shakeys. He says he don't measure nothin "WE AIN"T BUILDIN NO NUCLEAR SUBMARINE HERE" we just makin a sauce. He also noted that they were all 70s teens sometimes they might forget to count how many cans or how many bags were added so each batch might be a little different. Keep in mind they would make the stuff 20 to 30 gallons at a time & stir with a big paddle. The sauce was made & kept in the walk in cooler they would laddle into the pizza building table sauce pans as needed. He also said the longer it sat the better it was. All the other fixin's were ready to use from the supplier exept the Hormel pepperoni that was sliced as needed with a deli type meat slicer. the sausage & burger was pre cooked as well. For the cheese he says Kraft pizza cheese is as close to what he can remember to Shakeys. In the 80's Shakeys corporate headquarters made them start measuring everything per pizza size. thats when they went downhill & ended up closing down here. I have a sauce recipe that I think tastes better than my buddies it is on the sicilian pizza sauce post stared by JimBob with photos. One more note my buddie insists that real secret was the gas fired brick ovens they were never tured off. at night they were set to a self clean setting & turned down to bake the next day. Bake = about 600deg. last night  I made a pizza using the above technique adding a light sprinkle of Mortons natures seasoning blend to the skin & brushing the top of the skin with olive oil. I set my oven to 700deg using 2 stones for thermal mass the pizza was fantastic!!! I will post photos as soon as I get off the camera
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2005, 09:18:14 AM
Great post, lots of useful information! Thanks!!

Question about the dough. Just flour and water? No salt or yeast?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: 007bond-jb on June 13, 2005, 09:23:03 AM
No salt no yeast just flour & water. I did forgetto add they used cornmeal on the bottom & sometimes during a cornmeal fight you might have gotten a pizza with meal on top too!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on June 13, 2005, 09:28:37 AM
Here's an interesting article about Shakey's from http://www.iridis.com/Shakey%27s_Pizza


Shakey's Pizza was the first important pizza chain restaurant in the United States and in many ways pioneered the concept of the chain pizza parlor.

Shakey's was founded in Sacramento, California on April 30, 1954 by Sherwood "Shakey" Johnson (1925-1998) and Ed Plummer. Johnson's nickname resulted from a case of malaria suffered during World War II. The first weekend the parlor opened, only beer was served, and Shakey took the profits from beer sales and bought ingredients for pizza the following Monday. The original store at 57th and J in Sacramento remained in business until the late 1990s. Shakey personally played dixieland jazz piano to entertain patrons, and that type of entertainment was a staple of the Shakey's experience well into the 1970s. Shakey's initially became known outside Sacramento not for its pizza but for the jazz program it sponsored on a regional radio network. Shakey Johnson is honored in the Banjo Hall of Fame in Guthrie, Oklahoma. for his longtime use of banjo music at his pizza parlors.

The second Shakey's Pizza Parlor opened in Portland, Oregon in 1956. Shakey's began franchising its restaurant to others in 1957. By the time Johnson retired in 1967, there were 272 Shakey's Pizza Parlors in the United States. The first international store opened in Winnipeg, Manitoba in 1968. By 1975, the company had expanded to the Pacific Rim, including Japan and the Philippines. The chain is now much bigger in the Philippines than in the United States.

Shakey's Pizza Parlors are noted for their unique features: The parlors are decorated in a variety of informal styles, traditionally having tables lined end to end the width of the dining room and seating provided on wooden stools. Some later designs included high tables and stools and stained and beveled glass designs. Parlors are usually decorated with antique-looking wooden signs bearing "Ye Olde Notice." Typical notices are "We made a deal with the banker. We don't cash checks, and he don't sell pizza" and "We have no quarrel with those who sell for less. They know what their product is worth." There is usually a window allowing children to watch the pizza being made. Family-friendly entertainment is still a staple at Shakey's, with many stores featuring large game rooms and featuring live performances by magicians and other entertainers on certain nights to attract business.

Besides pizza, Shakey's has developed other menu items into trademarks, including it's MoJo potatoes (breaded and deep-fried potato slices) and fried chicken. Most Shakey's restaurants incorporate a buffet, which is usually responsible for more sales than the ordering of whole pizzas. Its classic thin-crust pizza remains more popular than its deep-dish pizza, which was introduced in the 1970s and has a sweeter crust more reminiscent of pastries than pizza.

Shakey Johnson sold his half of the company to Colorado Milling and Elevator in 1967, which acquired Plummer's half the next year. Shakey's was again to Hunt International Resources in 1974. Two franchisees bought the chain in 1984, and they sold out to Inno-Pacific Holdings of Singapore in 1989. Most of the U.S. stores closed in the time Inno-Pacific owned the chain. Some of the remaining franchisees took Inno-Pacific to court in 2003. Before this could come to trial, Shakey's was sold to Jacmar Companies of Alhambra, California, in 2004. Jacmar had been the franchisor of 19 Shakey's restaurants.

The decline of Shakey's is a case study in franchise mismanagement worthy of a major business bestseller authored by some competent reporter. Shakey's has gone from 325 stores throughout the United States when the original owners left the company to 63 stores as of 2004, 55 of them in California. There are only four stores east of the Mississippi River: Springfield, Illinois; [[Warner Robins, Georgia., Janesville and West Allis, Wisconsin; and only four stores in the West outside California: Boise, Idaho; Nogales, Arizona, and two in suburban Seattle.

Most Shakey's restaurants closed not because of a decline in sales (although competition from delivery-based pizza chains such as Domino's and Pizza Hut has hurt Shakey's in-store sales) but because the franchisors (the owners of the Shakey's name and recipes) kept alienating franchisees by raising fees while at the same time providing a diminished level of benefit from franchising. As a result, many franchisees decided to convert their restaurants to copycats of Shakey's that offered a very similar menu but didn't have to pay royalties to Shakey's International. For example, the eight Shakey's Pizza Parlors in Minneapolis-St. Paul became Paesano's Pizza, and the four Shakey's in Bakersfield, California became Sharkey's. Unfortunately, this has the effect of alienating the customer base which comes to Shakey's for its unique and familiar pizza recipe, and most copycat stores close within a year. Even the original store in Sacramento closed in 1995, although this was due to a fire.

The new owner of the chain plans to revitalize it and expand in the USA beyond its California base by using techniques mastered by Krispy Kreme to gain maximum publicity when entering a new market; this will likely be easier for Shakey's than it is for Krispy Kreme, since so many people in those markets are familiar with Shakey's from the 1958-1994 period when it had stores in most American cities.

The chain currently has about 400 stores; 63 in the USA and the rest in Asia and the Philippines.

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on June 14, 2005, 08:18:17 AM
Has anyone tried making a cracker crust pizza with only flour and water (no salt, yeast, etc.)?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: 007bond-jb on June 14, 2005, 01:12:51 PM
I did & will post photos soon. I did add a lite sprinkle of Morton seasoning blend as well as brushing the top of the dough with olive oil. It came out great! You know that bag of flour that was mentioned in the above post, well it's unknown if it had salt or was say; self rising flour? I did drill my friend very well on the point of was the dough allowed to rise, He said no. It went straight from the mixer to the sheeter.
PS: No the mayo was not used in or on the pizza......Geeeezzz!!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: beerisgoodfood on June 19, 2005, 08:13:34 PM
very interesting read on the demise of the great shakeys pizza.

that place was the best. as a teenager i lived by one and we would just chow on that buffet and play video games.

now that im 33 i want to do the same thing but there arent any shakeys  :'(
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: ExShakeysMgr on July 05, 2005, 01:26:56 AM
I was with Shakeys in Los Angeles for 20 years, until 1986.
There was a Shakeys franchisee, Jacmar Sales, 20 or so units.(they are also a supplier of pizza rest supplies)  At the end of last year they bought the Shakeys Company.   Things will be changing. 
Here is 2 stories on it.
http://www.pizzamarketplace.com/research.htm?article_id=19163&pavilion=136&step=story
http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/61/61485.html
Also google for Randy Hill Shakeys Pizza
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: yonkiman on August 25, 2005, 12:29:02 AM
Any news?  Did all the hot leads fizzle out?  I WANT TO TASTE ORIGINAL SHAKEY'S PIZZA AGAIN BEFORE I DIE!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: IlliniPizza on September 06, 2005, 03:35:10 PM
OH My God!

Bizarre Couple of Weeks!

In a post a while back, I said that I never realized how lucky I was to live around Chicago.  That became doubly true this week.

For about the last year.  I have been reading posts about Shakey's pizza, and their supposed sauce, but never heard of the chain, and have never tried it. so I never put much thought into it.

But while visiting my parents place in Belvidere, IL (near the Wisconsin border). I saw a girl I hadn't seen in some time, she worked in Beloit, WI  She and I decided to grab some dinner.  She told me about this place just north of where she worked in Janesville, WI.  She told me that her parents loved the place and when she was younger they went frequently.  So we go, and I notice the sign  Shakey's Pizza & Buffet.  I think back to Shakey's pizza everyone raves about on this site, and decided that there must be thousands of pizza places called Shakeys.  We eat and I don't give it a second thought.

We go in and they have about 5-6 different pizza's laying out buffet style, the place itself reminded me of a banquet hall with wood paneling and tables lined up like a church dinner.  Different.  The pizza was good, but I bypassed the thin crust because it was smothered in Cheddar Cheese, which I wasn't accustomed too.

Today I was going thru random topics, and checked Shakey's topic, and read down to one of Steve's posts, and he wrote a detailed history of Shakey's pizza, and that it was now called Shakey's Pizza and Buffet, known for their fried potatoes & chicken.  I was stunned!  I couldn't believe that this is the place everyone has been asking about for a year.  4 in the country!  I ate in one. 

Steve, it maybe a little while before I get back there, but I will buy a Shakey's thin crust pizza, get some sauce to go on the side, disassemble it and post some picks.  Also their kitchen is fully open and viewable to the restaurant.  I will get you any info you need.

In a related "I am the luckiest man alive segment".  I discovered last week that Grande Cheese is manufactured in Juda, WI just 30 miles away from my folks place.  Do you think I have a chance of finding a block around town?

I have a reason to live.  And its pizza!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: elsegundo on September 06, 2005, 04:54:17 PM
A lot of interesting info about Shakey's  in general but not enough particulars.

Back to basics.  Shakey Johnson was trying to provide a pub meal to go with the beer and Dixieland music.
His style was a cracker like consistency similar to what you would have at a home party. A kind of meat and cheese on a cracker meal- not a huge meal.

What many posters are leaving out was the use of a sheeter. Techically it is called sheeted die cut.
Shakey's pizza was a sheeted dough that run through a Sheeter, possibly folded, and the cut with a round cookie cutter. Of course it was cut to 12 inches and various sizes. No hand toss. To duplicate the style use a pasta roller at home. Also, the dough was not just flour and water. It included yeast and shortening.  What someone is looking at is the dough pre-mix.  This is done commercially so that teenagers mixing up the ingredients at the parlor only have to add water.
     from Sacramento, deserted home of real pizza
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: elsegundo on January 19, 2006, 04:18:29 PM
Shakey's sauce is the following:


Tomato puree from vine ripened tomatoes
Dextrose
Salt
Spices
Garlic powder
Citric acid
Maltodextrin
Natural flavor
Sodium citrate

OK now you have the basic recipe straight from the company.  I see someone promised the dough if they received the sauce.
Tomato puree, sugar, basil and perhaps oregano, garlic powder, a tiny touch of citric acid (vitamin C).(lemon juice, tiny)

Check the cracker style section here for more.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on January 20, 2006, 10:50:05 PM
Thanks for the post elsegundo!

But my question is what's the "spices"????

Salt is listed pretty high-up on the list, do we assume that there is more salt than garlic powder

Any idea on the band of tomatoes??? I remember the sauce being slightly sweet.

I cant recall what kind of sweetener Dextrose is (table sugar, cornsyrups solids or what)

Anyone know if it is/was a cooked sauce?
_________________________________________________________________________

I get citric acid in powder form at a cake & candy supply, I use it to make super pucker suckers! Use citric acid sparingly, it STRONG stuff.
but for those who cant get this.. Lemon flavored powdered drink (Kool_aid) would be a good source. Sounds funny, but it usually works.

Alot of canned tomato products already contain citric acid or some other comparable acid.

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: elsegundo on January 23, 2006, 06:14:50 PM
Spices are probably basil.
"Salt is listed pretty high-up on the list, do we assume that there is more salt than garlic powder"

Yes they are in order of weight. More salt than spices. More spices than garlic.

The sauce is distributed to the local Shakey's. They don't cook it.

This is as much information as the box of sauce contained.
The next time something blows out of the dumpster at Shakey's I'll let you know. You have the sauce and cheese.
The dough is flour of some kind plus shortening and water. More I do not know. Maybe the wind will blow out the flour bag someday.  ;)

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: foodblogger on February 03, 2006, 05:25:42 PM
If you're ever in Iowa City, Iowa (Along I-80 for those you you unfortunate enough to drive through flyover country) there is a Shakey's there.

Shakey's Pizza and Buffet, Hwys 6 and 218, Coralville, 337-7177: 11 a.m. to 9 p.m. Monday through Thursday; 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. Friday and Saturday; 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. Sunday.

Coralville is connected to Iowa City.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: mackhenrod on March 11, 2006, 07:26:26 PM
i used to go to shakey's all the time with my dad in the late 60's and early 70's.The post that said the dough was run thru some machine and not tossed must be referring to shakey's in the later years, because i remember watching in the window that they had for viewing the cooks tossing and stretching  and twirling the pizza's.
                    Something that nobody has mentioned was that nobody had better italian sausage than shakey's.
                    I also agree with a previous post that Happy Joes is as close to shakey's as you can get. Almost identical. Except for the sausage.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lilbuddypizza on March 13, 2006, 09:52:30 AM
I only had Shakey's twice, and that was back in 1980-81. Was it my imagination, or did the sauce have a little green pepper in it? Maybe finely minced??
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Steve on March 15, 2006, 09:38:47 AM
I only had Shakey's twice, and that was back in 1980-81. Was it my imagination, or did the sauce have a little green pepper in it? Maybe finely minced??

If you look at my thin and crackery recipe (main website) you'll see that I add green pepper to my thin-crust sauce.  ;)
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: stevenmhinde on April 25, 2006, 04:55:14 PM
If you're ever in Iowa City, Iowa (Along I-80 for those you you unfortunate enough to drive through flyover country) there is a Shakey's there.

Shakey's Pizza and Buffet, Hwys 6 and 218, Coralville, 337-7177: 11 a.m. to 9 p.m. Monday through Thursday; 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. Friday and Saturday; 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. Sunday.

Coralville is connected to Iowa City.

Ironically, the location you speak of is 10 minutes from where I live and I am the author of this thread!  Anyway, the bad news:  The Coralville Shakey's closed a few years ago and is now an "Old Chicago" pizza restaurant.   :(
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: stevenmhinde on April 25, 2006, 05:00:29 PM
........I also agree with a previous post that Happy Joes is as close to shakey's as you can get. Almost identical. Except for the sausage.

Happy Joe's has been my only fix for Shakey's for some time now.  We had several tornados go through DOWNTOWN Iowa City on 4/13/06 and the Happy Joe's was completely destroyed, as were many other businesses and homes!!! 
First they close my Shakey's and now this!!  I'm sure they will rebuild the Joe's though as they did quite well.  They had something like 8-10 new red Toyota trucks for their delivery fleet...for 1 restaurant!  Maybe I'll try and find out what's in the Happy Joe's sauce since it seem sooo similar to the old Shakey's style... *drool*   I'll let you know what happens
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: shakeys_Upland on May 12, 2006, 11:26:43 AM
I work at the shakyes in Upland, California. The one on Foothill and campus and our sauce comes in a bag that comes in a box, so no one really knows what the sauce is made of, unless you were or a manager. I will try to find out and post when I go to work saturday :pizza:
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: elsegundo on May 28, 2006, 11:43:40 PM
Your manager receives a box of sauce from Jacmar and the ingredients read: Tomato puree from vine ripened tomatoes
Dextrose
Salt
Spices
Garlic powder
Citric acid
Maltodextrin
Natural flavor
Sodium citrate

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on August 08, 2006, 12:07:15 AM
This thread has to be the MOST disappointing read on this forum. Hell, I am going back over to the Round Table pizza thread!  :-D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: stevenmhinde on October 09, 2006, 05:54:38 PM
This thread has to be the MOST disappointing read on this forum. Hell, I am going back over to the Round Table pizza thread!  :-D

^^^^ :-D :-D Yeah, you'd think the recipe would have been revealed by now!  I do think that maybe the shift needs to be made to try and uncover the Happy Joes sauce recipe.  I think that would be a great find as they have a VERY delicious sauce!  Share it if you've got it folks!! :chef:
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Joel on December 09, 2006, 02:16:21 AM
Hi, I have been looking for the original Shakeys sauce recipe and came across this thread. I worked at the Shakey's in St. Louis Park Minnesota from Sept 1975 to sept 1976. I cooked pizzas in the kitchen, plus I was a prep cook in "Ye Old Skullery" I loved the pizza, and I really would like to be able to make it at home.
I'll try to fill you all in on some details that I remember. For the sauce, I opened one gallon cans of Hunts tomato paste, and dumped them into the Hobart mixer, along with an equal amout of water. Then I added a bag of spice mix. The spice mix was labeled shakey's, they came 4 bags, about 2 pounds each in a big brown cardboard box. Fter mixing, it was dumped into a big plastic garbage can and had to sit in the cooler at least a day or 2 before using. We had 2 garbage cans and rotated. Only a few times that I can remember did we ever completely empty the cans and wash them out.
On the dough, flour, water, and a bag of Shakey's dough mix went into the hobart with a dough hook. Maybe there was oil or shortening too, but I don't remember. If I recal corectly, we made the dough in the morning, put it into bus tubs on racks in the skin room. They raised all day, then got rolled out on the skin machine with lots of flour, cut with a cookie cuter into the 3 sizes (single, double, and family), stacked up with wax paper in between, and sat overnight in the cooler and used the next day.
For the cheese, I took big bricks of fresh mozzerella that was very moist and stickey. I sliced them into long strips with a peice of piano wire. Then ground it in the grinder into a bus tub, and let it sit in the cooler uncovered for a day or two untill it was dry enough to use. Then I ground up fresh cheddar and also provalone which was hard and pretty dry and somewhat crumbly. The cheddar and provalone were ground into much smaller pieces than the mazzarrela, only about 1/16" holes on the grinder plate. The two were mixed together in a bus tub and put in the cooler, we called the mixture C&P.  We got ground parmezan ready to use from Kraft.
We got the pepperoni and salami in sticks and I sliced them round in the slicer, it went into bus tubs in the cooler to dry. The canadian bacon came in big sticks that I sliced in half the long way before slicing the stick into the half round slices. We got johnsonville polish sausage and another sausage I think was called linguistica or something like that. It was orange, course and greasy. Both of those got laid sideways in the slicer and cut into long thing strips. The pork came in fresh, and I ground it, put it in a bus tub, mixed in a bag of spices labeled Shakeys sausage spice, and put it in the cooler to dry. The beef was received already ground, basically it was lean hamburger. I had to mix in a bag of shakeys beef seasoning and put it in a bus tub in the cooler. It was covered because it did not need to dry. I remember that it was very difficult to thoroughly mix the spices in, it took alot of work tearing and kneeding and rolling to get it all blended, and it was COLD on the hands.
The peppers and onions came in fresh and whole and I sliced them in the slicer. Olives where canned and I drained them and sliced them. Mushrooms were received canned and sliced, just needed draining. Pimento's, anchovies, shrimp, and oysters came in small cans that were opened only when some one ordered that kind of pizza.

To build the pizza, we took a board and sprinkled corn meal on it, then a skin. Next we spread sauce ont the skin with a paintbrush. The sauce was pretty thick, not runny at all, and was spread to  the edge of the skin. Then the mozzarella was spread to within 1/2" of the edge of the skin, and C&P was sprinkled over it.  Then the meat went on, in this order: salami, canadian bacon, polish, linguistica, pepperoni, sausage and beef. Then peppers and onions, mushrooms, olives, then pimentoe's, shrimp, oyster, anchovies, then sprinkled with parmeian cheese. If pinnaple was used, it was last and no parmesian was used. Of course not all these topping went on any one pizza, but whatever was going on, this was the order. then it was slid into the oven, onto the big rotating trays.

So you can see that there were alot of proprietary shakey's mixes. Each bag had an ingredients list on it, and I often thought about copying them down. But I had to sign a form when I started working there that said that I would not copy or take or divulge any recipes.

Sure wish I had some Shakey's pizza to eat tonight, typing all this has really made me hungry for it. One of my favorites was canadian bacon, polish sausage and beef. Man, that was GOOD!
SOme of the popular combo's were the Shakey's special, the lefthanders special,  pepperoni and green pepper, beef and onion, the hawian special, and sausage and mushroom.

I hope this helps, now if someone could only tell us what was in the mix bags!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: SemperFi on January 15, 2007, 09:16:31 AM
Huh, that's funny.  If you Mamma Shakeys dough recipe, you get PizzaMaking.com, and I am pretty sure that it is Steve's recipe. Round and round we go....
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jhadhar65 on January 31, 2007, 10:47:36 PM
Okay, here’s my run at Shakey’s from the 70’s.  I didn’t work there, but I’ve never forgotten what the greatest pizza in the world tasted like and I’ve been chasing it ever since.  I started with the Chef Boyardee kits when I was a kid (I’m 41 now) and been working toward recreating Shakey’s ever since.  This recipe is the product of recommended experimentation, question-asking, Internet and other research, and just plain guessing over the course of about 30 years or so.

A little disclaimer here:  I’m not a pro and nowhere near as advanced as a lot of you here.  I see these percentages and stuff you talk about and it’s all over my head.  You’ll probably see some things in my method that makes you shake your head.  If so, know that I welcome all pointers to a better pizza.  That said, here’s my amateur attempt at Shakey’s…

Here’s my dough recipe:

10 ounces of warm water (run the tap ‘til it feels warm – fill the measuring cup)
¾ teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon of sugar
3 tablespoons olive oil
4 cups of flour (I use bread flour – whatever I can get my hands on)
2 teaspoon active dry yeast

This is for a regular oven and makes two pounds or two 16” pizzas.  I use a bread machine to mix the dough and I load it in the above order.  I put the sugar and salt in opposite corners of the bread can and I make a little impression in the flour mound to pour the yeast.  I set the machine to the dough setting and let it run its course.  After that, I remove the dough, separate it into two equal portions, and put each ball in its own mixing bowl.  I pre-coat the bowls with a light spray of Pam olive oil, then cover each one with plastic cling wrap, and let them set on the counter at room temperature for at least 24 hours, but not more than 36 hours.  In fact, if I don’t use it within a few hours after the 24 hour mark, I’ll go ahead and store it in the refrigerator.

When I’m ready to cook, I’ll pre-heat my oven to about 550 degrees (the knob is only marked at 500 and I set it between that and broil).  I sprinkle some flour out on a clean counter, lay out a ball, and roll it out as thin as I want, adding enough flour to keep the dough from sticking to the roller or counter.  I usually have plenty hanging over the pan to use for other stuff, like bread twists or whatever.  I grease my cutter pan with a little bit of Pam and sprinkle some corn meal on it, distributing the meal buy bumping the edge of the pan with my hand.  I’ll usually toss the pan in the oven then while I get the other ball rolled out.

After about 4-5 minutes, I take the pan out and lay the first sheet (skin?) on it, press it in with my hands, lightly dock it with a fork, and trim excess with my roller.  For the docking, I give the pan a descent spin and poke around for about three full turns.  I then set it aside for 20-30 minutes and get the other one ready.  I put each one back in the oven after this time for just a couple of minutes, but I do not allow the crust to change colors or bubble up.  It should be pulled out just as it tries to bubble or a split second before.  There’s no science to it, just a feeling.

When the first pan is ready, I brush on the sauce with a big BBQ brush nearly to the edge, sprinkle Kraft mozzarella by hand, making sure I can still see scattered red, and lay on my toppings.

Here’s the sauce and it must be made at least a week in advance, tightly covered, and stored in the refrigerator – a couple of weeks ahead is even better:

28-ounce can of pureed tomatoes
1 table spoon of bell pepper (the green one)
1 teaspoon of yellow onion
1 big clove of garlic
1 teaspoon thyme
½ teaspoon oregano
½ teaspoon of salt

This is just enough to make a thin film on the skins.  You can double the amount for a little more sauce and still have some left over to use as a starter for a new batch.  This is handy to have if you’re making pizzas, but didn’t get your sauce made far enough in advance.  Just make the above recipe fresh (or as far in advance as the time you have allows) then mix it with the starter and store as above.  Make sure you liquefy the tomatoes in a blender before mixing them with the other stuff.  Also, the bell pepper, onion, and garlic must be as finely chopped as you can get it.  I’ve got this little hand-chopper thing and I try to chop it all fine enough to make a bread spread.  The thyme and oregano are store shelf spices, not fresh, and I pour them out on a cutting board and mash them with the back of a spoon before adding it to the sauce.  I know they’re ready to go in when I can smell them pretty strong just standing over the board.  I cook the whole thing for about 30 minutes over heat low enough that the sauce never boils.  After that, cool it, store it in Tupperware with a good lid, and stick it in the fridge.  You’ll see it again in a week or two.

After you build your pizza (that oven’s been at 550 degrees now for 30 to 45 minutes), toss one in on the middle rack for about 10 minutes or so.  About halfway through, I’ll crack the oven and turn it some.  I watch it close, though, because the cooking cycle goes like this:  Not Ready > Not Ready > Not Ready > Almost Perfect > Perfect > Completely Ruined.  I let it cool for a few minutes, then slide the whole thing off on the re-cleaned counter, cut it, and go to work – all the while getting the other one ready and cooked, too.  It'll be pretty crisp with some bubbles in it and a strong flavor.  The sauce is pretty good, too, and sets the whole thing off.  This is a home-baked pizza, so I can lay it on the counter if I want to.  If I had two more cool pans, I would probably slide them off on those.

This is as close as I can get considering I’m a non-trained, non-precision amateur.  Sorry about the long post.

Hoyt
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jhadhar65 on January 31, 2007, 10:54:05 PM
I just compared what I have to the one on the main site and it's pretty close actually.  The dough's a little different, but the sauce isn't too far off.  It all probably got passed around and changed a little.  I can certainly vouch for the sauce and I'll have to try the things that are different from what I have.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jhadhar65 on February 05, 2007, 10:59:29 AM
I made some changes this weekend to the recipe I've been using above.  I added a tablespoon of honey to the dough recipe and lightly brushed it with a butter and garlic powder sauce (1/3 c butter, 1/4 tsp garlic powder).  I added this after placing the skin in the oven for a short time without anything on it as described above.

The sauce gets pretty thin after it's been liquified, so I added plain Contadina tomato paste a little at a time until it thickened up some.  It ended up being around 2-3 oz of paste.

It still doesn't exactly nail Shakey's, but it's pretty good and probably as close as I'll be able to come under the circumstances.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lew on September 18, 2007, 01:07:45 PM
I have been monitoring this topic for a while now, and I have yet to try some of the recipes that have been posted.  I think I will in the next couple of weeks.  I too worked at Shakey's when I was in high school, back in the late 70s, and I too am looking for something similar.

For those on the west coast that are looking for a Shakey's, you can go to Abby's Legendary Pizza (w3 dot abbys dot com (I can't post the link for ease of use)) in Oregon (just about any city).  They have 31 locations in Oregon, and 3 in E. Wash.  The pizza is very similar, even down to the parlor itself.  You can even watch them make the pizza at the window!  The crust (thin) and the sauce are both reminiscent of the old Shakey's. 

There isn't one close to me, but when I get the hankerin', I make my way to Newberg (about 1/2 hour away) and have a great slice of memory (and good pizza, too).

So, if you are in the neighborhood, check it out.

Lew
Tigard, OR
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: SHAKEITUP on October 01, 2007, 05:59:34 PM
HERE YOU GO, THE SECRETS OUT TRY SOME CAROB AND CILANTRO. >:D :angel: :-D :chef: :pizza:
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: MertVS on October 01, 2007, 06:34:20 PM
Ironically, the location you speak of is 10 minutes from where I live and I am the author of this thread!  Anyway, the bad news:  The Coralville Shakey's closed a few years ago and is now an "Old Chicago" pizza restaurant.   :(


Wow, I just discovered this forum today (home with a sick kid) and have been enjoying all the information here - I just wanted to say that I am about 5 minutes from there so small world huh!  I also know someone who worked there years ago, I'll see if I can get any useful information to add to this thread!   In the meantime, I'm going to work on perfecting my cracker crust!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: iebnn on April 01, 2008, 05:03:43 PM
I was living in Tokyo last year, and there were Shakey's Pizzas all over the place. It's quite common in Japan it seems. I don't know how it compares though.

There are a lot of odd US chains that moved to Japan and became popular, and died off back in the US. Like the Lawson convenience store (EVERYWHERE in Japan), Mr. Donut (used to be a US company, now only in Japan), etc.

Japan is failed food chain heaven.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: scotttiawana on April 03, 2008, 07:24:50 PM
Try looking up some recipies online.  I'm sure that there are some good ones out there.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on April 04, 2008, 11:26:06 AM
Just as an FYI, for the Shakey's fans out there, there is a recent report on the Pizza Today website about how Shakey's is making a comeback. ;D

The site location is here: http://www.pizzatoday.com/hot_slice.shtml

Here's a snippet of what they say:
"Shakey's USA brand sees record sales, franchise expansion
2008 marks a milestone year for Shakey's USA. The veteran 54-year old chain began a system-wide revitalization effort last year marking an end to economic obstacles in recent years. Newly appointed CEO Joe Remsa helms this new era of growth as all corporate locations undergo complete remodels, four new area development agreements have been signed and the chain expands to the south with the first new Shakey's restaurant east of California in nearly 40 years."
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lew on April 28, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
I finally got around to the making the sauce, and it was really good.  But, during the prep, I remembered something from my days at Shakey's.

There was WINE in the sauce!  I don't remember quantity, but there was some.

Does anyone know or remember this?

Lew.

Okay, here’s my run at Shakey’s from the 70’s.  I didn’t work there, but I’ve never forgotten what the greatest pizza in the world tasted like and I’ve been chasing it ever since.  I started with the Chef Boyardee kits when I was a kid (I’m 41 now) and been working toward recreating Shakey’s ever since.  This recipe is the product of recommended experimentation, question-asking, Internet and other research, and just plain guessing over the course of about 30 years or so.
[snip]
This is for a regular oven and makes two pounds or two 16” pizzas.  I use a bread machine to mix the dough and I load it in the above order.  I put the sugar and salt in opposite corners of the bread can and I make a little impression in the flour mound to pour the yeast.  I set the machine to the dough setting and let it run its course.  After that, I remove the dough, separate it into two equal portions, and put each ball in its own mixing bowl.  I pre-coat the bowls with a light spray of Pam olive oil, then cover each one with plastic cling wrap, and let them set on the counter at room temperature for at least 24 hours, but not more than 36 hours.  In fact, if I don’t use it within a few hours after the 24 hour mark, I’ll go ahead and store it in the refrigerator.

[snip]

28-ounce can of pureed tomatoes
1 table spoon of bell pepper (the green one)
1 teaspoon of yellow onion
1 big clove of garlic
1 teaspoon thyme
½ teaspoon oregano
½ teaspoon of salt

[snip]

Hoyt
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on April 28, 2008, 03:03:58 PM
Lew:

I am having difficulty picturing Shakey's using wine in their sauce for the very simple reason that it would have had to have been held under lock-and-key given the number of underage teen-agers that typically work at a Shakey's. ;D

Would it be possible that it was wine vinegar, perhaps to temper the sweetness of the sauce?

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: widespreadpizza on April 28, 2008, 07:44:33 PM
Quote
There was WINE in the sauce!


This is something I've been meaning to bring up for a while.  I remember watching somebody on tv make a marinara sauce,  and they stated very confidently that until you add alcohol to a tomato sauce that you would never get all the flavors from the tomatoes.  The explanation was chemical in nature I believe.  Can anyone shed some light on this?  thanks -marc 
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: IlliniPizza on May 19, 2008, 10:35:46 PM
Many times garlic and onion are sauteed to tenderize & smooth the flavor, the pan is then deglazed with a cooking wine to loosen it from the pan before adding the tomatoes.  Sbarros does this with their sauce.

I have been to shakey's in Janesville, WI  & had happy joes for dinner tonight.  Both are similar.  I would love to have their sauce & dough recipe.  I am guessing their dough is rolled in cornmeal & then thrown into a very oily pan from what I can tell. 

Since happy joes are more common now then Shakey's I agree you would probably have a better chance of finding out Happy Joes sauce recipe.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: unidos on May 24, 2008, 08:58:23 PM
Lew:

I am having difficulty picturing Shakey's using wine in their sauce for the very simple reason that it would have had to have been held under lock-and-key given the number of underage teen-agers that typically work at a Shakey's. ;D

Would it be possible that it was wine vinegar, perhaps to temper the sweetness of the sauce?

-ME

I worked at a Shakey's in Maryland around 1985. There were 2 in the Washington DC area.

I remember using tomato Sauce and paste, oregano, some kind of seasoning in a white packet and Sugar.  But we never used wine in the sauce.
Title: Re: Shakey's in Janesville, WI
Post by: Engineered Ceramics on August 20, 2008, 10:02:29 AM
Is the Shakey's Janesville, WI the original recipe?

That pretty close to me, and might be worth a trip.
Title: Re: Shakey's in Janesville, WI
Post by: Mad_Ernie on August 20, 2008, 12:12:30 PM
Is the Shakey's Janesville, WI the original recipe?

That pretty close to me, and might be worth a trip.

They closed within the last year.  The one in West Allis closed this summer.  :'(
Title: Re: Shakey's in Janesville, WI
Post by: Engineered Ceramics on August 20, 2008, 01:44:50 PM
They closed within the last year.  The one in West Allis closed this summer.  :'(

Now I'm Sad  :(
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: mykall on September 29, 2008, 12:12:37 AM
Few things from childhood bring back fonder memories than the very notion of Shakey's Pizza.  It's one thing as a child to go to McDonald's and another to know you're going to Shakey's for dinner.  The only thing that even comes close is Lums which went out of business more than a decade ago, but doesn't register on the richter quite the way Shakey's did.  My problem is that I can't remember what it tasted like.  I KNOW it was good, but Shakey's was long before Pizza Hut went national, long before Dominoes, Papa John's and all the others.  We had a few Pizzerias near us in the early 70's, but NONE compared to shakeys.  Unique is the word.

It's a shame what happened to the chain, but I sure do hope they come back.  I'd love to buy a franchise and put a few in my area.   Talk about a memory!



 
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on September 30, 2008, 09:55:08 AM
Mykall:

I know what you are saying.  I think the last Shakey's pizza I had was in West Allis, WI in the late 1970's.  There were a few Shakey's restaurants still around in the Kansas City area when my family arrived in 1978, including one not far from our house, but they all closed by around 1980-1981.  The couple of times my dad ordered a pizza from that Shakey's, I distinctly remember it being crap. 
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: dingle on November 05, 2008, 01:54:07 PM
When I stumbled onto this site, I was hoping to find a receipe for the original Shakey's receipe from the early 60s. I was also surprised that many others are on the same quest. I remember Shakeys opened in Albany, OR in about 1960 and was the 2nd one in OR, the 1st being in Portland. The franchise was owned by Jim&Isabel Covalt and they had about 3 in the area. I still have a menu from the 60s and "7 kinds of imported cheeses" was mentioned. Also, the largest most expensive combo could be had for about $5. It seems like the receipe changed sometime in the late 60s (probably for economic reasons) and lacked the original zing. I also remember dime beer night, which didn't last too long. At some point in the 70s, Isabel Covalt did not renew the Shakeys franchise and started the "Izzys" chain, which started out being similar to Shakeys, serving pizza, chicken, and salad. Eventually, so many things were added to the menu that they have lost their identity and niche (my opinion).
Anyway, I am stilll on the trail of the original receipe. It seems like the company would consider re-introducing it or share it with the public.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Rooster42 on November 15, 2008, 04:50:23 PM
Shakey's cheese is a blend of Mozzarella and Provolone.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: dingle on November 15, 2008, 06:01:21 PM
If the menu can be believed, 7 kinds of cheese was used. I think that may have changed later because of cost. I was reading a blog about the founder of Shakeys, Sherwood Johnson and it was mentioned that cayenne pepper was used in the crust. I wonder if they meant sauce. It would account for the spicyness of the original receipe and the parched feeling that lasted overnight.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Frankie G on November 16, 2008, 02:40:36 PM
As far as Tomato Sauces and Pastes... all pizza chains spec viscosity, sweetness, salt and so on.  There is also the consideration of fresh pack (Stanislaus / 6 in 1) vs reconstituted.

One probably cannot find the exact tomato base in a grocery store or distributor.  But one can get the original spice recipe through the exorcise that is being done on this page (finding employees that worked there when they added spices... not proprietary spice mixes)

Once the spices are captured, one can experiment with mixtures of sauce and pastes to get the right tomato base....

How's that sound???? :chef:

Frankie G
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Coleyoni on December 29, 2008, 03:47:12 PM
For those of you who are close to Portland, OR. you can go to Bob's Rocket Pizza on NE 42nd. Bob ran the Shakeys for 20 years and has identical pizza made with exactly the same method. He sold out but he still makes the dough and sauce for the new owners and you can find him there 5 days a week.

Have fun!
Coleyoni
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: gregamyra on January 18, 2009, 08:04:28 PM
Hey gang,

New to this site and it's great.

I too can remember Shakey's growing up in Littleton, CO. As I'm reading this topic, my mouth salivating, I distinctly remember Shakey's being spicy. So, the cayenne pepper idea seems to make sense to me and it also sounds right that it's in the crust. Anybody else remember this? Any ideas as to how much. I'll try it soon and report back.

My mom had a friend that used to play banjo at a Shakey's. Remember you could get that Styrofoam Shakey's hat that stayed on your head with rubber bands?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: dynadeuce on January 28, 2009, 10:12:09 PM
 :chef:
I too worked at Shakey's.  The Richfield, Minnesota location from '82-85.  Sounds like things changed through the years.  However, while I worked there I did every possible job you could.  So from my memory here are some things most of you will find completely useless in your quest to duplicate the pizza and are apparently only accurate to my employment.

Dough: Flour, Water, Yeast (cake style dissolved in the water), Shortening.  Thats it no seasoning, made in large Hobart mixer with dough hook. Mixed about 10 minutes allowed to rise once, punched down, refrigerated and used the next day.

Sauce: Six gallon cans of Hunts tomato sauce, 1 spice packet (came prepackaged, no ingredient list) mixed well in Hobart mixer with mixing paddle, poured into 10 gallon bucket.  Used as soon as needed.

Cheese: The menu did claim seven cheeses, I only ever saw 4: Mozzarella, Cheddar, Provalone, and Parmesean.  The first three shredded on site with shredder attachment for Hobart mixer.  Parmesan came in large bags in boxes.  The Cheddar & provalone were combined and as stated by others called C&P.

Rolling the dough: done every day, unused "skins" tossed at end of day.  Large rolling machine used to turn 1/3 of a batch into a 2 foot wide by about 10 foot long thin strip of dough, docked (large studded roller over entire surface to poke holes) then cut with template and knife to small, med, or large size.  stacked skins about 2-3 inches high with wax paper between each "skin".

The Build: spread a handfull of cornmeal on build board, place skin on board, remove wax paper, use wide BBQ style brush to paint sauce on skin covering entirely, so much so that you paint past edges onto the board about 1/16" thick on skin.  Weigh proper amount of Mozzarella and spread on to within 1/2" of edge of crust, sprinkle small handful of C&P over Mozzarella, cover pizza with chosen ingredients (which could include: pepperoni, sausage, spiced beef, polish sausage, salami, canadian bacon, green olives, black olives, onion, green pepper, mushrooms, pineapple, anchovies, and extra cheese), shake parmesean cheese liberally over entire pizza, use inverted square end spatula to scrape/squeegee all spilled ingredients (especially sauce) off of board.  Shake board lightly to make sure pizza will slide off board (this is the whole reason for the cornmeal, think edible ball bearings). Slide onto stone oven surface. 
Cook till done. (if you ever made a pizza you know when its done).
Enjoy.

Side note about previous posts.  There was no wine in the sauce, but as I was underage at the time and left to close the store about once a week, I can attest to the fact that since we served beer and wine at our location, I was trusted to behave.  And of course I did, LOL, we only tested the beer occasionally to make sure it was still safe for the customers.

Sadly, all Shakey's in the Minneapolis area were closed, I think by around 1990.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lilbuddypizza on February 01, 2009, 09:01:30 PM
To me Shakey's sauce always tasted like Aurelio's with green bell pepper. :D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Pizza Molhado on February 08, 2009, 07:27:04 PM
This was an interesting read, I too would like to know how to make the sauce with precise measurements. I do not remember what the sauce tasted like back then as I was too young so I cant really help out in trying to recreate it.

While I was reading the history of Shakeys mentioned earlier I couldnt help but notice that it was almost word for word exactly like my favorite pizza parlor here in Long Beach, its called "Me n Ed's"

It could have been a clone of Shakeys or a former store that turned, but there is dixie/blue grass music every friday and saturday night. The tables are wooden and aligned from one end to the other so you have multiple party's sitting close to each other. There's plenty of "Ye olde..." signs posted throughout the restaurant, there is also an area sectioned off with glass where you can see them making the pizza right on the spot. Oh yeah and alcohol is served there. :)

Its a cracker crust style pizza with a sauce that has a more paste-like consistency then liquid. The cheese from what ive been told is Mozzarella and Monterey Jack. I got hooked to this place as a child because every tuesday night kids eat free!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: billyboybleu on May 18, 2009, 11:12:01 PM
Okay, here’s my run at Shakey’s from the 70’s.  I didn’t work there, but I’ve never forgotten what the greatest pizza in the world tasted like and I’ve been chasing it ever since.  I started with the Chef Boyardee kits when I was a kid (I’m 41 now) and been working toward recreating Shakey’s ever since.  This recipe is the product of recommended experimentation, question-asking, Internet and other research, and just plain guessing over the course of about 30 years or so.

A little disclaimer here:  I’m not a pro and nowhere near as advanced as a lot of you here.  I see these percentages and stuff you talk about and it’s all over my head.  You’ll probably see some things in my method that makes you shake your head.  If so, know that I welcome all pointers to a better pizza.  That said, here’s my amateur attempt at Shakey’s…

Here’s my dough recipe:

10 ounces of warm water (run the tap ‘til it feels warm – fill the measuring cup)
¾ teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon of sugar
3 tablespoons olive oil
4 cups of flour (I use bread flour – whatever I can get my hands on)
2 teaspoon active dry yeast

This is for a regular oven and makes two pounds or two 16” pizzas.  I use a bread machine to mix the dough and I load it in the above order.  I put the sugar and salt in opposite corners of the bread can and I make a little impression in the flour mound to pour the yeast.  I set the machine to the dough setting and let it run its course.  After that, I remove the dough, separate it into two equal portions, and put each ball in its own mixing bowl.  I pre-coat the bowls with a light spray of Pam olive oil, then cover each one with plastic cling wrap, and let them set on the counter at room temperature for at least 24 hours, but not more than 36 hours.  In fact, if I don’t use it within a few hours after the 24 hour mark, I’ll go ahead and store it in the refrigerator.

When I’m ready to cook, I’ll pre-heat my oven to about 550 degrees (the knob is only marked at 500 and I set it between that and broil).  I sprinkle some flour out on a clean counter, lay out a ball, and roll it out as thin as I want, adding enough flour to keep the dough from sticking to the roller or counter.  I usually have plenty hanging over the pan to use for other stuff, like bread twists or whatever.  I grease my cutter pan with a little bit of Pam and sprinkle some corn meal on it, distributing the meal buy bumping the edge of the pan with my hand.  I’ll usually toss the pan in the oven then while I get the other ball rolled out.

After about 4-5 minutes, I take the pan out and lay the first sheet (skin?) on it, press it in with my hands, lightly dock it with a fork, and trim excess with my roller.  For the docking, I give the pan a descent spin and poke around for about three full turns.  I then set it aside for 20-30 minutes and get the other one ready.  I put each one back in the oven after this time for just a couple of minutes, but I do not allow the crust to change colors or bubble up.  It should be pulled out just as it tries to bubble or a split second before.  There’s no science to it, just a feeling.

When the first pan is ready, I brush on the sauce with a big BBQ brush nearly to the edge, sprinkle Kraft mozzarella by hand, making sure I can still see scattered red, and lay on my toppings.

Here’s the sauce and it must be made at least a week in advance, tightly covered, and stored in the refrigerator – a couple of weeks ahead is even better:

28-ounce can of pureed tomatoes
1 table spoon of bell pepper (the green one)
1 teaspoon of yellow onion
1 big clove of garlic
1 teaspoon thyme
½ teaspoon oregano
½ teaspoon of salt

This is just enough to make a thin film on the skins.  You can double the amount for a little more sauce and still have some left over to use as a starter for a new batch.  This is handy to have if you’re making pizzas, but didn’t get your sauce made far enough in advance.  Just make the above recipe fresh (or as far in advance as the time you have allows) then mix it with the starter and store as above.  Make sure you liquefy the tomatoes in a blender before mixing them with the other stuff.  Also, the bell pepper, onion, and garlic must be as finely chopped as you can get it.  I’ve got this little hand-chopper thing and I try to chop it all fine enough to make a bread spread.  The thyme and oregano are store shelf spices, not fresh, and I pour them out on a cutting board and mash them with the back of a spoon before adding it to the sauce.  I know they’re ready to go in when I can smell them pretty strong just standing over the board.  I cook the whole thing for about 30 minutes over heat low enough that the sauce never boils.  After that, cool it, store it in Tupperware with a good lid, and stick it in the fridge.  You’ll see it again in a week or two.

After you build your pizza (that oven’s been at 550 degrees now for 30 to 45 minutes), toss one in on the middle rack for about 10 minutes or so.  About halfway through, I’ll crack the oven and turn it some.  I watch it close, though, because the cooking cycle goes like this:  Not Ready > Not Ready > Not Ready > Almost Perfect > Perfect > Completely Ruined.  I let it cool for a few minutes, then slide the whole thing off on the re-cleaned counter, cut it, and go to work – all the while getting the other one ready and cooked, too.  It'll be pretty crisp with some bubbles in it and a strong flavor.  The sauce is pretty good, too, and sets the whole thing off.  This is a home-baked pizza, so I can lay it on the counter if I want to.  If I had two more cool pans, I would probably slide them off on those.

This is as close as I can get considering I’m a non-trained, non-precision amateur.  Sorry about the long post.


Hoyt

Thanks for giving me something to start with. I'll pay it forward after a couple months of trial and error.

Billy
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: supreez on July 14, 2009, 02:12:46 PM
OH My God!



But while visiting my parents place in Belvidere, IL (near the Wisconsin border).


did this just happen in the last couple of weeks, like july of 2009?? i was searching for shakey's mojo potatoes recipe and went to shakey's site...couldn't believe they're still around! used to have some in this area (northern indiana)  but not for a long time now. according to shakey's store locator, the closest one to me is in auburn ALABAMA, a mere 662 miles away  :(  then i find this site and your post...i want to believe, yet do i really dare, that i could have shakey's pizza in a few hours if i so wished?

this is awesome news. i loved shakey's as a kid! shakey's and burger chef lol. those potatoes were the bomb, thought i might try making some tonight. but that pizza wow. not much compares to that! cool post!
Title: Re: Shakey's crust...
Post by: xoutbob on September 15, 2010, 01:20:12 AM
No salt no yeast just flour & water. I did forgetto add they used cornmeal on the bottom & sometimes during a cornmeal fight you might have gotten a pizza with meal on top too!


I worked at Shakey's Pizza in Memphis in 1974, I was the Skin Man for three stores-new concept back then! What I can remember was we would put a large bag of flour in the HOBART MIXER, and there was a smaller package of a flour mixture with something else in it...Water-and Budwieser Brewing Yeast 1 large like 8 to 10 inches long and 3 to 4 inches thick... think the smaller package of flour mixture might have been a flour - salt - sugar - kinda like bisquick? We would mix in Hobart machine for about 30 min. let relax and put into grey tubs about 2 and a half feet long maybe 18 inches wide and about 5 inches high...it was about 6 to 8 tubs at a time. This would go into walk-in beer cooler till next day. When I would get there I would make up new dough and let sit in H-machine. I would take one tub at a time to the long wooden prep table-looked like a long shuffleboard table!-the electric roller with the size thing on it was cool - set it on a thick setting and run the dough back and forth over and over and slowly turn the setting smaller and smaller and that last click was majic-10 to 15 ft of thin-dough-then would lay a pizza pan family size or large or medium or small and used a knife to cut around the crust to make the SKINS-As I said - did this for 3 stores ... I was 17 years old then ... been trying to get it right for years just can't seem to get it just right...
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on November 24, 2010, 11:50:21 AM
I'm using the handle "Zing" because I am trying to discover what the zing is in Shakey's sauce. While there has been a great variation in the sauces I have had since 1974, all (except from some of those rogue Shakey's franchisees) have had a zing to them - sometimes described as spicy, tangy, hot, zesty, etc.

I am embarking on a project with a friend (a California native) to produce a clone with zing to it. My friend made the observation that there is a black spice in Shakey' sauce. Many reports from old timers who mixed the sauce before it came pre-mixed from a distributor indicate they added a powdered spice mix. If there is a red/chili pepper component, it would rule out the use of liquid pepper sauces. One possibility may be coarse ground pepper. In the thread on the Round Table formula, Lydia discussed the use of ground Mexican oregano. I have done a trial run of pizza sauces spiked with an expired, oxidized lot of McCormick's Hot Shot(R) black and red pepper blend.

I am now leaning toward the use of Pastorelli's, a Chicago-made supermarket pizza sauce which is a pasty rather than liquid-ey product. Availability has increased since Target has started selling Pastorelli's in their stores, in addition to various supermarket chains. To this, I want to add some zing. Has anyone heard/read anything about black pepper and/or powdered red pepper being one component of Shakey's zing?
 
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: chickenparm on November 24, 2010, 09:47:20 PM
Never had this pizza,being a NY native,but it sounds pretty good! I would be willing to try making a similar pizza soon,even though I may not have basis of knowing for sure if it tastes the same or not.
 :)


Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: cshultz on December 21, 2010, 02:23:04 PM
I love Abbys pizza!!!  I would love to find out the secret to the sauce and dough. I didnt realize it was like shakeys.. thanks for that info.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 16, 2011, 12:22:21 PM
Contributors Joel and Dynadeuce are the most accurate recollections I can find on this thread. Here’s my similar contribution. Consider it a fractured brain dump but not too bad for 30 years later.

I was an assistant manager at the Shakey’s on Rockville Pike, MD while in high school, circa 1975-1978. In the years I worked there, I trained in all positions including cook, till, prep, skins, fryer, bar and yes even scullery - and then assistant manager. The store was reported to be the second largest volume Shakey’s at the time, which I believe. It was a seriously happenin’ place most nights and all weekend. Country music on Thursdays, Dixieland Jazz on Friday nights and Country/Bluegrass on Saturday nights (or maybe the other way around). Weekend days were packed with birthdays, soccer teams and later included football fans when we finally installed a projection TV.

First of all, the dough was definitely made with shortening. The shortening was stored in the dry goods storage room, in a bag, in a box, room-temperature. It wasn’t refrigerated, so it clearly wasn’t lard. It was a Crisco-type shortening, a.k.a. 100% pure vegetable shortening. That’s right, hydrogenated vegetable oils (trans fats).

I recall weighing something like 16 oz per batch, requiring me to reach into the bag and scoop out pure, white, slimy goop with my hand.  I clearly recall it was a large glob of the stuff. I have big hands and by the time it was weighed out on a waxed paper sheet, it filled my paw like I was holding a large softball. This is important because this should tell me, as a Crisco crust, that once cooked there would be a certain flakiness to the crust and a certain mouth-feel of hot pizza versus cold, and there should have been less grease in the delivery boxes than other pizza shops that used oil based recipes. However, I don’t remember if any of this was the case, only that we did use shortening.

The dough recipe was flour, water, shortening, yeast and a pack of Shakey’s dough mix, additives that I have no idea what they were, but it was likely salt, sugar and perhaps some leavening or gluten extenders and perhaps some preservatives. The bag was packaged and labeled by Shakey’s. The yeast was fresh compressed cake yeast made by Anheuser-Busch provided by our local beer distributor. It was provided in one-pound bricks and we used one brick per batch. The process was to pour water into the Hobart bowl. Then the blob of shortening was dropped in. Then measured bus tubs of flour were dumped in. On top of it all we poured the contents on one bag of Shakey’s dough mix and a crumbled brick of yeast. Then, with the dough hook installed, turn on the mixer and time it to something like 10 minutes.  Looking back, we should have measured the temperature of the water but I just don’t ever recall a bad batch unless we forgot an ingredient when assembling. The water was measured by volume using 5-gallon pickle buckets.

Sorry I can’t recall the flour weights but I do recall the finished batch was heavy and it was awkward to lift the finished dough out of the Hobart bowl onto the stainless prep table. I had to sort of roll it up the side of the Hobart bowl into my lap and then shove it onto the prep table, so I’m guessing it weighed 35 pounds finished. From there I sliced it into five even pieces and placed them into five covered bus tubs for a first rise (and sometimes a second rise if we were busy). Once the dough raised enough to lift the covers off the tubs, we punched the dough down and then the tubs were stacked in the cooler on shelves until the next day when they were used for rolling into “skins”.

To make skins, cold bus tubs of dough were removed from the cooler and carried to the rolling area. One loaf was mixed with no more than 10% scraps from the previous loaf. At the end of the day we tossed any remaining scraps, usually a bus tub full. They were never saved for the next day. Then through the sheeter it went, first one way and then, reducing the roller gap by a click, the dough went back the other way. The first couple passes required folding and rotating. Sheeting was repeated until the entire loaf was reduced to a thickness of perhaps no more than a sixteenth of an inch and perhaps 20 feet long, or more if you ran a double loaf. The sheeted loaf was rolled onto a large rolling pin which was then moved to the cutting table for cutting. The long sheet of pinned dough was then pulled out, enough to cover the full length of a 10 foot butcher-block cutting table. Four stainless ring templates, a docker and a 2-inch putty knife were used to dock and cut the skins. When prepping for a busy weekend night, it was nothing to stack 500 Family size skins, 350 Doubles and 150 Singles. We never cut birthday size skins ahead of time (the 4th template), instead we cut down a single size skin when the birthday order came in. Ten skins were penny-stacked, each separated with a piece of wax paper and then all ten sandwiched between two pizza pans. This went into the cooler for use the next day. An interesting side note that I was taught is that docking the dough is not intended to poke a zillion holes in the dough, but instead to pinch together the dozens of dough laminations that are formed when sheeting. No matter the purpose, docking definitely reduces dough bubbles when baking.

For the sauce, make no mistake, the tomatoes we used were Heinz Tomato Puree, 1.06 Specific Gravity, Net Wt. 6 LB. 9 OZ. (MFD in USA by H. J. Heinz Co.) I know this because I still have an empty can I use for nuts & bolts in the garage. Don’t over think this. The sauce recipe was puree, water and an herb mix pre-packaged and labeled by Shakey’s. The bag was mostly filled with green herbs. I’d think any Italian mix of basil, oregano, dried garlic, salt and sugar would be a good place to reverse engineer from, but again, this was mostly dried green herbs, water and puree.

Equal parts of water and puree were placed in the Hobart bowl and to this was added the Shakey’s herb mix. I think each Hobart batch included three (3) cases of puree plus equal water and one herb bag per case of sauce (or one bag per batch?). Each case was six cans. The mixture was stirred with a Hobart wire whip for 15 minutes or so to distribute the spices and herbs. It was typical to mix two full batches of sauce per day resulting in the filling of a 30 gallon plastic trash can nearly to the top which was then stored in the cooler. Two trash cans were used in rotation. Doing a bit of math, each batch would have resulted in about 13 gallons or so of sauce (estimate 100 pounds +/-), enough weight that it took two people to lift each batch into the can. I made the mistake of trying to lift a batch by myself one evening only to instead dump most of the batch on the floor. It was too heavy and awkward for one person to lift and pour.

There was never any wine added to the sauce as suggested by a previous contributor. They may instead be thinking of Shakeys Secret Sauce which was used on some of the sandwiches. It was made with 1 part mayonnaise and ½ part red wine vinegar plus ½ part salad oil. There was no wine on the premises, ever. We didn’t sell wine.

The cheese was mostly part-skim low moisture mozzarella, a lesser amount of provolone and only a small amount of cheddar. Using the Hobart, it was all ground on-site into bus tubs, covered and stored in the cooler. The cheese was all high quality and very expensive. We didn’t use any soy cheese products. There was no parmesan cheese added to the base mix but it was offered to patrons in shaker jars when they picked up their order.

The 1975 menu stated “…FROM THE GIANT 750 deg OVENS IN THE WINDOWS…” . I don’t recall the ovens being set quite that hot, but maybe so. Pies took 5-7 minutes depending on how often the oven doors were opened and yes, I have one of those menus. A family size cheese pizza (serves 4) was $3.10. The family size Shakey’s Special pizza was $4.95. I think when I was hired, I started at $ 2.85/hour.

As I read through this site it’s clear that one of the reasons for Shakey’s near-distinction was the lack of corporate quality assurance. There are just too many variations in the contributions to think all owners and managers adhered to the same recipes. That being said, I do recall a couple early spot-inspections by Shakey’s corporate staff and, considering the volume of business we did, I would think our store was closely watched to be in compliance with corporate recipes. The owner tried once to change the recipe with a lower cost cheese, but we got busted by the Shakey’s cops and quickly reversed back.

Do the math: pizzas, sandwiches, salads and bar receipts and we routinely generated $10k-12k on a weekend night in revenue. Not too shabby for the 70’s. Later, in a last ditch effort to retain market, the store was transformed into a Shakey’s brass-bar theme but finally it was bought by Hooter’s, who have since relocated across Rockville Pike to a newer building. Today, the original red brick building sits vacant at 1471 Rockville Pike covered with painted, peeling white paneling awaiting the next Shakey’s visionary. Man, we had fun.     :chef: >:D

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on January 17, 2011, 09:23:51 PM
Lightmeter:

Thank you for your added contribution to the continuing saga of Shakey's cloning.  Every contributor has helped in some manner, and yours is probably one of the better detailed accounts of what most Shakey's were like.  I also suspect that franchisees might have veered from the pure, 'authentic' Shakey's pizza in some cases, such as with certain ingredients or procedures.  I have seen it with enough other franchised restaurants that it would only seem logical.

The sauce herb mixture you mentioned I think is the key not only Shakey's but most other pizza restaurant sauces.  Even one of my favorite local pizza places has a secret herb mixture they use to make their sauce.  The herbs are the key; not just the right ones but in the right proportions. 

I think it should be pretty obvious by now, and you have added further evidence, that sheeting the dough is the key to Shakey's pizza crust and others like it.  If someone really wants to recreate an American, cracker-crust style of pizza, there is no substitute for an industrial sheeter.  This makes me wonder, did the very first Shakey's pub use a sheeter for their pizzas in the mid-50's?  Was such a device even available yet, perhaps for another purpose?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 20, 2011, 08:29:02 PM
Lightmeter,

I'd like to add my thanks for your contributions to the Shakey's cloning project. I have fond memories of enjoying the pizza on Rockville Pike. As one who watched the chain wither away in the Washington, DC metro area to Newark, Delaware corridor, I can't just drive a few more miles to another location. So, I've started trying to clone the pizza two months ago. What all of these posts show is how recipes and procedures changed over the years. But, no restaurant chain stood still over the same time period. You may be interested in the recent post, which gives the current ingredient label lists of many of the factory-prepared foods now used by Shakey's entitled 'Shakey's 2011' in the Cracker Style forum.

The following notes are not a recipe, but part of a work in progress. From current shortening information, I found partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil shortening is available under the Wegmans and Guaranteed Value (Royal Ahold/Stop & Shop/Giant) house brands. For cheese, the closest I have come is Sun of Italy shredded Pizza Cheese (mozzarella/provolone) and Nature's Promise (Royal Ahold/Stop & Shop/Giant) shredded Sharp *White* Cheddar Cheese. For sauce, Muir Glen/General Foods pizza sauce (nationally available) is now my starting point. All of its ingredients, spices, and herbs are listed on the label. I am trying various peppers, such as crushed red pepper and ground cayenne (red) pepper to determine what give the sauce its Zing. I'm also experimenting with Spice Islands ground Mexican oregano. That great flavor in the crust seems to be coming from barley malt. In California, one Shakey's was recently seen using Hormel food service thinly sliced pepperoni; don't know if its the regular version or hot and spicy version. I'm also trying to find foodservice versions of all of these ingredients; so far I have only used consumer versions.

With so many foodservice distributors listing their products on the Internet, I found that Heinz Tomato Puree (1.06 S.G.) is still on the market; it is item number 57270!
 :D

ADDENDUM: Thanks to those online nuitrition sites, I found many other house brands of shortening made with partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil. They are: Safeway, Hannaford, Lowes, Meijer, Springfield, Stater Bros, Hy-Vee, Meijer, Raley's, Wal-Mart's All Vegetable shortening 48 oz, Food Lion.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 20, 2011, 09:50:00 PM
Lightmeter, I must too thank you for the in-depth recollection of how this style was made. If I am reading correctly what you posted regarding the dough prep, it went something like this.

Day 1
1) Make up dough
2) Let rise
3) Place in cooler overnight

Day 2
4) Make dough skins
5) Place in cooler overnight

Day 3
6) Pull out a stack of skins, dress and cook

So basically the dough making was a three day process. If you don't mind I have a few questions regarding this.

- How long was the dough allowed to rise after making? Was this done at room temperature?
- After the skins were made, they were then fermented a SECOND time overnight?
- Were the skins ALWAYS kept refrigerated prior to dressing? Or was the whole stack taken out and allowed to warm up?

Again, thanks for the tidbits. Your insights to this pizza style are invaluable.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 20, 2011, 10:26:12 PM
No doubt, the sheeter is a critical component of this style crust. I personally think of the "American" style not so much a style, but derived more from a "process" of producing pizzas at a large scale; something no ma-pa pizzeria could do in the day. For quick service, Sherwood found a way to make a lot of pizzas each day using a sheeter. As such, the "American" style came as a result of the “process”. I'd think Round Table pizza was a close follower.

Crisco is well-known as an important ingredient of any pie crust seeking flakiness. Although I can't say I ever recall a Shakey's crust peeling apart like a flakey pie crust does, I do envision that a returning WWII serviceman making pizza in his home was using some variation of the family "dough" recipe; perhaps a derivation of the family pie recipe or perhaps instead the result of experimenting with a sheeter and, with expert pie makers nearby, the recipe was born. Crisco and a sheeter are equal contributors.

Asking whether Sherwood's first restaurant employed a sheeter is a great question.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 20, 2011, 10:52:27 PM
DNA Dan,

Your day 1-2-3 summary is close, but more-so we kept to a 2-day cycle. i.e. Day 1 is mix, rise, cover and cool. Day 2 morning-afternoon was sheeting. Day 2 afternoon, evening and Day 3 was assembly and baking.

- The dough was allowed to rise 6 hours +/- after making. It was always at room temperature. We punched it down once, maybe twice. i.e. prep person mixed the batch, monitored rising, punched it down and put it in the cooler before their 8-hour shift completed. No critical timing here, summer and winter rising rates were obviously different. All that mattered was dough made it to cooler before "prep" punched out for their shift.
- After the skins were rolled and penny-stacked and placed in the cooler, cooks drew on them at-will, as-needed, sometimes still warm from the sheeter, but mostly chilled.
- Once a cook removed a penny-stack from the cooler, pizzas were assembled immediately. We sometimes pulled three 10-stacks from the cooler if it was busy, but they also went quickly (since it was busy), i.e. skins were never given a chance to warm-up prior to make and cook.

Let me know questions - Lightmeter.




Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 20, 2011, 11:19:44 PM
- The dough was allowed to rise 6 hours +/- after making. It was always at room temperature. We punched it down once, maybe twice. i.e. prep person mixed the batch, monitored rising, punched it down and put it in the cooler before their 8-hour shift completed. No critical timing here, summer and winter rising rates were obviously different. All that mattered was dough made it to cooler before "prep" punched out for their shift.

6+/- hours! This is very interesting. This must account for a great deal of the flavor profile because the ingredients are very basic. I am sure the rest is the budweiser compressed yeast. I wonder what Shakeys of 2011 is using for yeast?

At any rate, this gives more support to the idea that the puffiness from a laminated dough is caused by steam through trapping air between the layers. Another point is the shortening, which would be small solid bits in the dough at refrigerated temperatures. This would melt in the oven and help separate the layers in a very random manner on a microscale. Many thanks for the information, I think this is a direction I need to go to increase the "malty" profile in my crusts. I never would have fathomed to let the yeast grow so much out of fear they would be exhausted overnight.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: fazzari on January 21, 2011, 12:09:31 AM
No doubt, the sheeter is a critical component of this style crust. I personally think of the "American" style not so much a style, but derived more from a "process" of producing pizzas at a large scale; something no ma-pa pizzeria could do in the day. For quick service, Sherwood found a way to make a lot of pizzas each day using a sheeter. As such, the "American" style came as a result of the “process”. I'd think Round Table pizza was a close follower.

Although the above "might" be true, and I have to admit to believing the same thing for years..I no longer believe that this is the case at all.  And my only proof is that a great laminated crust is still very, very popular in a world where one can buy any kind of pizza he wants.  And although I "might" be biased (but I don't think so!), some of the best meals I've ever eaten were made on a laminated cracker crust.. Yes, I love pizza...all kinds of pizza, and I wouldn't turn up my nose at a cracker crust in favor of say a Tutta Bella pie, or a pie from Serious Pie...one just has to enjoy the different qualities each style of crust brings.
As for the shortening...we made laminated cracker crusts for years with no oil whatsoever...it's the lamination process, which uses the layers, to squeeze the cells....that gives this crust it's unique properties.

John
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 21, 2011, 12:41:07 AM
Budweiser yeast followed by a 6 hour rise....... This just made my wheels spin on the internet for hours since my last post. I'm thinking, the yeast that Anheiser-Busch started selling during prohibition was most likely what they brewed the beer with. Y/N? If so, then this must be a brewer's yeast, not a baking yeast. It was a by-product of their brewing process. This would explain the long fermentation at room temperature in the Shakey's recipe. With an ADY or IDY there would be no reason to do this over the couse of 2-3 days. I have the strain number from White labs for this beer, and it's fermentation temperature is 50-55 degrees. Not really room temperature, but after mixing it in a dough, I could easily see this working..... why do I say that? Because I have produced a similar result going the other way around! Currently I am taking a local microbrew and boiling it off about 10 minutes to evaporate most of the alcohol and reduce it down. I am adding this to my dough and have had some moderate success getting good flavors out of the crust. It's about as thick as malt liquor and smells like a frat house after a week of partying! I need to try the brewer's yeast again!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on January 21, 2011, 10:31:59 AM
Dan:

Sounds like you are on to something here.  Go for it!  :chef:

Lightmeter, once again your comments are much appreciated.  I agree with you about the origination of the "American" style of pizza crust and that Round Table was no doubt a close follower.  Most American style recipes that I have seen, and work with, remind me more of a pie crust dough due to the fat content (shortening, butter, oil, whatever) and way it was rolled out so thin (by hand or through a machine).  I suspect this was because it was what was familiar to people living west of the East coast, and they didn't necessarily have the same ingriedients readily available to them that someone from NYC or Boston or Phili other East coast cities would have had.  Certainly the origination of Pizza Hut's original thin-n-crispy pizza crust seems to support this theory.

Glad to have you here, LM.  Keep 'em coming!  :)

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 21, 2011, 10:37:46 AM
Dan:
FWIW, back in the mid-70's, my mother was friends with the owners of a local retail bakery. They would sell her one pound packages of what was labeled Anheuser Busch bakers yeast. Also, a one-time co-worker who lived in Old Bridge, NJ told me A-B had a yeast plant there. This was a few miles away from the A-B brewery in Newark, NJ.

It would be interesting to know if A-B sold brewing yeast as well.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 21, 2011, 11:55:54 AM
Dan:
FWIW, back in the mid-70's, my mother was friends with the owners of a local retail bakery. They would sell her one pound packages of what was labeled Anheuser Busch bakers yeast. Also, a one-time co-worker who lived in Old Bridge, NJ told me A-B had a yeast plant there. This was a few miles away from the A-B brewery in Newark, NJ.

It would be interesting to know if A-B sold brewing yeast as well.

So do you know for certain this was bakers yeast? Or was it brewer's yeast? Did it look like this: http://www.esnarf.com/4795k.htm ?

See I am thinking they just took their brewer's yeast and instead of fermenting beer, they grew it up in vats with malt syrup then changed the process to be a yeast collection rather than a beer production. This way AB could keep their current operations going, just discarding the precursors to making beer and selling the yeast instead. They could also take the beer byproducts and remove the alcohol and sell it as a non-alcoholic beer. If this was indeed baker's yeast, it must be a whole different strain altogether.

I also figured out that using beer in a dough is not the same as using a bunch of yeast cells. With a boiled off beer, you're using the byproducts of the yeast, whereas with the cells, the flavor is entirely different. This would explain why I get closer to the flavor I want by using a local microbrew. It's not as processed as say a can of budweiser. I think what I am after are the yeast cells. Time to look up my buddy that brews his own beer.  ;D

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Pete-zza on January 21, 2011, 12:05:25 PM
Dan,

It looks like we both went over the same ground on the yeast issue. You might want to read what was posted at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10382.msg91533.html#msg91533.

Peter
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 21, 2011, 01:20:42 PM
See Adobe page 18 of this document for information about what happened to A-B's yeast business:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fcn/gras_notices/grn000284.pdf

The bakery was using one pound blocks of bakers yeast. Red Star and Fleischmann's still sell it. Might make for a tastier pizza. I believe fresh yeast can work at a lower temperature.
http://www.lesaffreyeastcorp.com/products/category/1/view/35
http://www.abmf.com/products/yeast

I can see how the beer distributors also sold the bakers yeast. They stored and delivered the keg beer back then cold. Since their delivery routes also had bakeries and restaurants along it, they could profitably sell the refrigerated yeast.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 21, 2011, 03:04:37 PM
I recall reading that many of the prohibition-era brewers began distributing baker's yeast to offset and ride-out the drop in beer sales; AB and Pabst among them. However, they were also marketing to a thriving "bathtub beer" market. Were they selling baker’s yeast to home brewers or was it brewing yeast? Anyone know? Did prohibition restrict the sale of brewer’s yeast to home brewers, or perhaps brewers were concerned they would be found out if they used brewer’s yeast and so used baker’s yeast instead? Did retail stores even sell brewer’s yeast during prohibition? Anyone know?

I have no specific recollection of whether Shakey's used brewers or baker’s yeast, but will ponder it a bit more and see if some of the recommended reading leads me to any clues. As a first question, I'd ask what whether there are any physical or visual characteristics that distinguish between the two. Reason is that I never found any difference in the AB cake yeast we used at Shakey’s versus what I bought at the grocery store for home baking (Pabst). It was an off-color, squeeky (to rub) material - same as store-bought - so I presume it was baker’s yeast.

I also recall a relatively recent Pabst announcement that they ceased marketing yeast. It caught my eye because when I bought cake yeast in the store, may times it was by Pabst.

And here's another favorite memory... anyone ever do "Dough Hits"? Ya gotta’ remember, this was high school kids in the 70's. Instead of simply punching the dough down, we'd punch and sniff the fumes – a big blast of malty yeast smell – likely carried by nothing more than CO2 gas. I have no idea what would prompt a bunch of kids to do it, but we did. Mostly a headache is all I recall.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 21, 2011, 03:49:15 PM
A good discussion can be found here under the beer section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast#Beer

Essentially Saccharomyces Cerevisiae covers all the fermenting yeasts in baking and brewing except those that bottom ferment. Those actually belong to another species -Saccharomyces pastorianus, formerly known as Saccharomyces carlsbergensis.

What you have within S. Cerevisiae is hundreds to probably thousands of different strains. These can be more or less flocculant, more or less fruity, more or less malty, etc. They differ in their metabolics. Some grow better in higher salt conditions, some produce more esters, etc. The only difference I see between the "baking yeasts" and "brewing yeasts" is the brewing yeasts grow slower, and can live in higher alcohol content. This makes them more adapted for alcohol making. The deal with the baking yeasts, is bakers wanted something that had a long shelf life, grows fast and produces a lot of gas, so the push over the last century has been from compressed yeast--> ADY ---> IDY --> rapid rising yeasts. This is what we have today.

The article that Peter linked to does give some support that they did sell the brewing yeast as a baking yeast. After all, they are the same species, just a different strain. They are both technically S. Cerevisiae. I came across some "malt syrup" products that AB tried to sell during this time period as well. Which lends further proof that they were trying to sell the flavor that their strain produces and what their infrastructure was ready to support. I think what happened by 1988, was there were so many other identified specialty yeast strains on the market that it wasn't really profitable to continue producing this to customers. The market is saturated with hundreds of S. Cerevisiae strains. So the "Malty" flavor of the 40's and 50's was no longer as unique as it once was.

What clued me into linking the bakers and brewer's version as one and the same was your recollection of the fermentation period. 6 hours is a long time for a baking yeast to ferment. You would almost completely exhaust all the sugar by then. My hypothesis is that this was actually a "brewer's" yeast used in making budweiser, and after it's in the log phase of it's growth 6+ hours later, the "puffiness" of the crust is maintained by laminating the dough. Which we know is created through trapping air and squeezing the cells.

Tell me, how big was the dough after rising? would it double? triple?
After punching down, would it double again during this same time period?

PS. Zing you're brilliant! Many thanks
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 21, 2011, 04:21:06 PM
More on brewing yeasts....

If the AB yeast is the same yeast they sold in bricks, then one might conclude that it would have to be an S. Cerevisiae brewing yeast in order to be marketed as a "baker's yeast". I don't think this is the case, because to my knowledge Bud is made with a lager fermenting yeast, which are typically bottom fermenting, thus putting it in the S. Pastorianus (Carlsbergensis) genus/species.

The only thing I have to offer on this is that the designation of S. pastorianus outside of S. Cerevisiae is a relatively new debate with the invention of DNA sequencing. Once they looked at the genomes, they realized it was deserving of it's own species designation. So, perhaps at one time before the modern DNA sequencing world, yeast was yeast. It could have been sold for beer making or bread making, didn't matter. But today if there is a a commercial requirement that anything designated "baker's yeast" needs to be a strain of S. Cerevisiae, this would explain why AB got out of the market as well. They could no longer market the yeast as a baking yeast. Now I don't know if that is true or not, but it just goes to show that prior to the invention of DNA sequencing, any yeast could be sold as anything. If people didn't like its performance, they would not have bought it.

Notice the wrapper I posted to does not specify the type of yeast, it's just YEAST.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 21, 2011, 07:13:00 PM

Tell me, how big was the dough after rising? would it double? triple?
After punching down, would it double again during this same time period?


Room temperature rise easily doubled the dough, enough that it would lift the lids off the tubs, and if we got too busy in prep, we never thought twice about punching the dough a few times in an 8 hour period to keep it under the bus tub covers - buying us a bit more time before we had to stack the tubs and lug'm into the cooler. Each rise was less active than its predecessor, finally only requiring a horizontal hand jab at any exposed dough to drop the lid back onto the tub. By quitting time, we'd give it another poke before putting it in the cooler. We weren't really trained to a strict process, only to put it in the cooler before clocking out 8 hours later.

1 rise, 2 or 3 made no matter to us and frankly didn't seem to make much difference in the characteristics of the cold dough when it was brought back out for sheeting or in the final skin. We used anything and everything that was sheeted with the exception of sticky skins which were hell to peel of the wax paper. If cooks found this too frustrating, they would sometimes throw the whole penny stack away – or twenty or thirty, etc.

So what’s the repeatable process? Two rises, each doubled, and then into the cooler would be the median. Rise at room temperature. Monitor the Sheet and cut.dough and punch each time it doubles. Just before refrigeration 6 hours later +/-, punch it down one last time. Retard 12-14 hours.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 21, 2011, 07:15:43 PM
Correction to last post... "So what’s the repeatable process? Two rises, each doubled, and then into the cooler would be the median. Rise at room temperature. Monitor the dough and punch each time it doubles. Just before refrigeration 6 hours later +/-, punch it down one last time. Retard 12-14 hours. Sheet and cut.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 22, 2011, 01:42:30 AM
hmmmm I don't know. From your descriptions of doubling every few hours then not doubling so much toward the end of the day, it sounds like a baking variety yeast. I just don't think a brewer's yeast will have that much action in a 8 hour period, but I will find out soon enough.

I just ordered my "St. Louis" yeast (wink wink) and some malt extract. I am going to propagate it a few days and pellet the cells so I can resurrect my very own authentic compressed yeast for this style. I don't think I will be able to get as much water out of it as a compressed yeast, so it will probably be more like a cream yeast. May also take a few attempts in my dough to get the proportions right. I guess one big question that remains for me is just how much of a compressed yeast cube is dead cells contributing flavor but aren't actual viable cells? This complicates things because coming from a propagation flask I will most likely have a lot more viable cells unless I deliberately dry it out a bit. The problem here would be adding too much yeast and getting too much activity. I may even start a new thread to make it all nice and pretty for others following the idea.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 22, 2011, 01:40:30 PM
I may be wandering from the purpose of this thread so point me elsewhere as needed/if needed.

DNA Dan - You're right to look for a yeast that is highly active for 8 hours. Don't get too hung up on my comments about successive rising being less than the former. This stuff really jumped. Note also that once removed from the cooler for sheeting that the dough had risen again to the full extents of the bus tub, i.e. it doubled again in the cooler. I know this because we had to peel the lid off the dough and then scrape the lid and bus tub with our hands to remove it all. Pulling the dough out of the tubs at the moment of sheeting, the dough was full of bubbles, wettish and sticky. A couple passes and foldings through the sheeter with some dusting took care of a lot of the wetness and stickiness.

One more recollection for Shakey's on the Rockville Pike is that we used two types of flour. One for the dough mixture and a second one for dusting that was used quite liberally during sheeting, more so during the first sheeter passes than later passes as the stickyness subsided. Surely this dusting between sheeter passes and between dough foldings contributed to the physical characteristics and suspected laminations. If we forgot to dock the dough the pies would balloon in the overn for sure.

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 22, 2011, 07:29:09 PM
Do you know if this was just a different flour or was it spiked with any leavening agents; ie baking soda/powder, etc.?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 24, 2011, 10:13:00 AM
Since back then Shakey's was not using a pizza crust premix, can you remember the names of the flours? Most restaurant/bakery flour has a trade name, such as  "All Trumps". Names would allow us to crack the specs of the flour they were using.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on January 25, 2011, 05:54:37 PM
Since back then Shakey's was not using a pizza crust premix, can you remember the names of the flours? Most restaurant/bakery flour has a trade name, such as  "All Trumps". Names would allow us to crack the specs of the flour they were using.

I am sure the flour is a high-gluten variety, since that seems to work best with this style. In regard to the yeast connection of AB, here is a link taken from Lallemand that confirms the purchase of Gist-Brocades (which was the first business to aquire the strains from AB). http://www.lallemand.com/our-business/bakers-yeast-and-ingredients/baking-solutions
http://www.lallemand.com/our-business/bakers-yeast-and-ingredients/lallemandamerican-yeast-division

So the strain is sitting somewhere in the 4000+ yeast strain library that lallemand is sitting on .  ::)
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on January 26, 2011, 06:12:48 PM
No. I have no recall of the flour names but one of my shakeys pals says he recalls a W name on the front bottom of one of the bags and offered the name Washburn (he has a scary good memory but its a guess). I also dont know if both flours were same company or not. Not much help on this one I know.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 27, 2011, 02:28:01 AM
There is a high probability that the name Washburn's tells us what type of flour was used. The only uncertainty is that there may have more than one type of Washburn's flour sold in the late 70's. General Mills lists Washburn's Gold Medal as one of their professional flours. It is a trademarked name registered April 27th, 1886 by a predecessor company of General Mills. It is listed on two of GM's websites:
http://generalmillsfoodservice.com/products/productdetails?pKey=59401000&retUrl=/SearchResults.aspx?SearchTerm=washburn&retLabel=Search Results
It is not listed under products; I had to use the search function to get this page. Also, the GM professional flours site has this page of flours sold in the East that lists details of Washburn's:
http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/flour.aspx?type=Espring

From the descriptions, "A high quality enriched, malted and bromated bread flour milled from a selected blend of hard wheat. Unbleached." Ingredients are listed as: "INGREDIENTS: Wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, iron, potassium bromate, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid." Listed uses for this flour include thin crust pizza.

The trade dress of the General Mills bags of flour seem to have remained the same since I was a kid. The name of the flour is indicated by reverse printing at the top and botton of the bag. See examples on the bags of flour shown on the GM flours product pages.

General Mills also makes a flour called GM-44 that is described as an "economy flour" and one of its recommended uses is for dusting flour.

ADDENDUM: From the list of ingredients in the premix posted by Jet-deck, there is no potassium bromate in the current formula outlying area mix. Perhaps elsegundo could post the information in parenthesis after 'wheat flour' from the premix bag that blew out of the trash and wound up in his garden.

Current premix formulations use ammonium sulfate (fertilizer) and calcium sulfate (classroom blackboard chalk, plaster of paris). Do a google search and you will find these ingredients listed in many commercially produced breads. Subway frozen bread dough uses these in some of their varieties. The problem is finding some food grade versions in small quantities. Dextrose is not too hard to buy.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 28, 2011, 12:53:57 PM
Here are the current specs for GM's Washburn flour:
Moisture: 14.0% maximum
Protein:   12.6%
Ash:        0.52%

I don't know what changes have to be made to a recipe if a bromated flour is replaced by an unbromated one. Because of California's labeling law, it is certain unbromated flour is now used there.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on March 29, 2011, 07:29:18 AM
I finally got around to the making the sauce, and it was really good.  But, during the prep, I remembered something from my days at Shakey's.

There was WINE in the sauce!  I don't remember quantity, but there was some.

Does anyone know or remember this?

Lew.


A tablespoon of Merlot that had "turned" added to a batch of sauce "suggests" there is wine flavor in the Shakey's sauce. But why didn't any of the people who made Shakey's sauce before the bag-in-the-box sauce remember it?

Could it be that Wine Powder was part of the spice mix added to the tomato product? I found references in a patent that indicate wine powder was available since at least 1978. It seems to be sold by ingredient and flavor suppliers to food manufacturers, mostly on the wholesale level. There are a few dealers that sell in small quantities online, such as spicesetc dot com. They are available in different flavors, such as burgundy, sherry, and chablis. Not being a wino, I can't discerne what wine flavor is being used in the real Shakey's sauce. Can anyone help?

Elsegundo's ingredients list includes maltodextrin and natural flavor. Natural flavor could be dehydrated wine, and the maltodextrin is probably added to the dehydrated wine at the flavors factory.

As a side note, I was able to buy both dextrose and calcium sulfate in a home brew shop. Home brew shops sometimes call the calcium sulfate "food grade gypsum".

EDITED to replace the word 'indicates' with 'suggests' in the first sentence, for reasons discussed in the next two entries.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on March 29, 2011, 07:58:47 PM
Zing – I have to say it again. At the Shakey’s on the Rockville Pike, we didn’t use wine in the sauce, ever. Wine didn’t exist on the premises. Was it used by other Shakey’s? I can’t answer that, but I personally reject the notion without a stronger choir than I’ve read so far. Since I would be the last to dissuade you from experimenting, in this case, I’ll just say to be careful of over thinking this and possibly going down a wrong path.

At the Rockville store, we used Heinz puree, water and a Shakey’s herb mix. It was, I think, entirely dried green herbs. There was no trace powder in the mix that I recall, but can’t argue that sugar and natural flavors wouldn't be ingredients. I wouldn’t extend that to include wine powder, calcium, citric powder, salt – or any other crystal or powder. If there was anything mixed with the herbs, it was a dusting. I have a hard time believing Sherwood was that scientific. The ratio was on the order of 15 gallons of puree + water to a quart of dried herbs.

Now that I’ve read the previous posts, I get where your ZING moniker comes from and the quest you’re on - and you’re right, there is a ZING to the sauce. ZING a good word and says a lot. Since my last post, I visited a couple Shakey’s in the LA-area, including the corporate store in Rancho Cucamonga, CA http://rancho.shakeys.com/Press/PressRelease.aspx. Although their baking methods are obviously different (more later if interested), the Rancho Cucamonga store was the sauce I remember. ZING. Good stuff.

Funny story, just as I was approaching the store, the corporate delivery truck was unloading the sauce – yep – boxes of it, on the sidewalk. I snapped a picture on the way by, using my new phone camera, not realizing the damn thing would “click”, resulting in the driver trying to figure out what that noise was. The biggest covert operation ever~!

Anyway, as for the ZING, I say it’s predominantly in the Heinz puree as acidity or maybe even bitterness, but not wine, wine powder or calcium. As such, now that you’ve located a supply of Heinz Puree, I challenge you to find that ZING you’re looking for in the puree itself. Puree can be strained with or without seeds, cooked a little or a lot, fresh or ripe, thick or thin, etc. We’ll never know the process Heinz uses to make that particular puree, but look for the ZING there. My best guess is that the Shakey’s sauce recipe is now buried in a corporate box of Heinz puree, water and herbs.

All for now - thanks for the personal e-mail. Happy food engineering~! I look forward to your progress.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on March 30, 2011, 06:08:16 PM
Lightmeter, thanks for your comments. I now realize I left out a few details about why I am experimenting with wine flavor. I have always had this feeling that Shakey's pizza on the east coast was slighty different than that on the west coast. I also found this to be true with the food from most national fast foods with the notable exception of McDonalds. If you were to leave leftover takeout Shakey's pizza in a box overnight, it would smell differently than, say, New York slice joint pizza. After defrosting a sample of west coast Shakey's, I noticed a sweet aroma that I could not place. So, I re-read all the threads and came across the post about wine. I also didn't note that I did not consider it the source of the zing, but of a flavor also unique to Shakey's. Wine may not be the source of the aroma in Shakey's pizza, but may be close to what is the real source.

I tried about 7 different powdered commercial pizza seasonings. From the labels, these are the ingredients found in one or more of them: Salt, Dehydrated Onion, Dehydrated Garlic, Oregano, Basil, Marjoram, Thyme, Crushed Red Pepper (Flakes), Savory, Bell Peppers,
Fennel, Parsely, Celery Flakes, Rosemary, Dried Tomato(!), Chili Peppers. Yet none of these seem to be the source of the flavor and aroma I notice in leftover pizza.

Regarding foodservice puree, so far, I have only tried the Hanover Primo Pomodoro 1.06 Specific Gravity Tomato Puree, canned in Hanover, PA with California tomato concentrate. Zing was not in there. One concern of mine is that the Heinz puree is not made the same way as in the 70's. The ingredients statement of the current Heinz product is: "Tomato Concentrate made from Red Ripe Tomatoes, Salt." But, I will look for zing in the Heinz puree.

As for the box-in-the-bag sauce, there are a number of firms that make ready-to-use sauce for pizza chains; check out the offerings at neiljonesfoodcompany dot com. While elsegundo and Jet_Deck's ingredients lists are fairly descriptive, that "natural flavor" could be anything whipped up by those ingredients and flavors firms such as Kerry Americas.

One of the challenges facing us is selecting which version of the sauce to clone. I'm going after the version used by the better Shakey's in California, since I can compare it with samples to see how close I have come. The last east coast Shakey's I ate at was in Cockeysville/Hunt Valley MD, which must have closed before 2000 (add: 1996 may be a closer date). I had my last California Shakey's pizza in 2005.

I would be interested in hearing about the baking methods used in Rancho Cucamonga.

EDITED to correct typos and update closure date of Cockeysville.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: grotto on April 10, 2011, 01:54:58 AM
WOW !!  lightmeter , you have brought back many memories !
I worked for Shakeys in Mpls for 3 yrs during the late 70's. "Dough Hits" !! man what a trip!
I worked prep , bar (yes, we served wine) , till and cook.
you are correct, they did not use wine in the dough or sauce,
Lightmeter is as close as I can remember to an accurate description of how the dough was made. As for the sauce , it was the tomatoe puree as mentioned and the powdered bag of propietary mix, It was very thick and brushed on to the skin, I believe the combo of thick sauce and cracker style crust to be the secret, This kept the sauce from penetrating the skin and saturating it.The exact recipe and chemical composition is beyond my scope.

As for the cheese , there were seven different cheeses used . Mozz , Prov , cheddar ,parm....and 3 others that escape my weak little mind....
I do remember that all the cheeses were ultra high quality imported cheeses , many of which were wax wrapped...
Pepperoni was Swifts Premium that was wax papper wrapped in approx 24" tubes.
polsh sausage was sliced lenght ways.
All sausage and beef was ground and spiced dailey from fresh product,

BTW, one post mentioned all the different topping available and stated that they weren;t all put on one Pie...  to that I say  "EBA!!!!!"  everything but anchovies !

Wow.. let me collect my thoughts and I will post tons of Shakeys trivia later.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: grotto on April 10, 2011, 02:01:35 AM
Yeah... I'm not as illiterate as that post appears...lol
Thoughts are coming faster than i can type.
I will try to get ahold of 7 or 8 other ex-Shakeys employees that i know for more input.
Maybe they can remember more than me





Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: grotto on April 10, 2011, 02:33:09 AM
The oven was was an important aspect to the process . Three tiers , moving the pie often and changing levels to obtain the perfect pie was crutial..

Do remember how fast those girls could cut a pie ? Almost scary !

If a customer was a jerk we would put an anchovie in the very center of the pie so that each
initial bite would have a hint of anchovie.... yeah , I was a teenager !

In 1983 I moved to Boise Id , I was so excited to find a Shakeys here , only to find that the franchise out here was horrible ! I tried to explain that other Shakeys made the best pizza ..
everyone out here just thought I had real bad taste !

I managed a Domino's in St' Paul for 2 yrs during college . The product was cheap but the delivery was quick. No contest for qualilty.....

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on April 12, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Grotto, you gave me some good ideas from your posts. I now think I need to get the best grade of foodservice products I can get my hands on. I have already obtained some Stanislaus and Escalon fresh-packed tomato products, including paste and prepared pizza sauce. Still not in possession of any fresh-packed puree, however. (Puree may have been fresh-packed back in the day; most purees are made from concentrate these days). I don't have enough zing yet.

Some of the other cheeses you see used in pizza cheese blends are muenster, romano, fontina, asagio, monterey jack, and colby.

I'm sure all of us would enjoy reading your further memories and the memories of your friends.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DeliveryGuy on May 21, 2011, 02:01:57 PM
I'd like to say thanks to the contributors of this thread. Forum regulars like Pete and Mad Ernie have helped me create the 'kind of pizza I wanted to make'. A bit of info here and there were great. I now operate a small pizza restaurant in the Philippines, most of the game-changing techniques I got here. Thanks to you, people.

Keep it going!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on May 21, 2011, 08:58:28 PM
I'd like to say thanks to the contributors of this thread. Forum regulars like Pete and Mad Ernie have helped me create the 'kind of pizza I wanted to make'. A bit of info here and there were great. I now operate a small pizza restaurant in the Philippines, most of the game-changing techniques I got here. Thanks to you, people.

Keep it going!

Gee, thanks DeliveryGuy!  :D

I'm not sure what help I have been, but I know from having read the posts on the Pizzamaking.com forum, Pete-zza, DNADan, Lydia, BTB, Essen, and probably countless others I can't think of right now, have helped me create and improve my pizza-making by galactic leaps and bounds.  Since you are in the Philippines, I imagine you have at least some competition from Shakey's, as they became rather well-known there starting back in the 90's, as I understand.  What kind of pizza have you been making?  Do you have any pictures you can share with the rest of us?

-M_E
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: go4x4it on July 15, 2011, 08:31:49 PM
I see that there is a decent want for the old Shakeys pizza sauce/skin..

If anyone is ever up in the Reno area, check out Boulevard Pizza.. The owners de-franchised themselves when Shakeys decided to change their ideals and recipes. You can go get the same pizza that you remember from back in the day. Including the ginormous knife used to cut the pies. They even have MoJos.. except the name had to be changed to Rojos.

I stumbled upon this thread and I had to share this info with everyone  :D


Title: Re:Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: all1knew on July 18, 2011, 12:39:30 AM
The original sauce recipe was made up from scratch, using canned tomato puree as the base. It was very spicy and distinct.

I think that I have the original sauce and thin dough recipes. These would be the original full size recipes, and would have to be scaled down.

Scott
I have to try the original! I'll let you know the results after I do!

Bill

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on July 18, 2011, 04:37:13 PM
Bill, even though the quote you posted was from 2004, no one has yet posted the "original" sauce formula. Ponerspal never returned to this thread. One additional problem is defining what the original formula is, as it changed over the years.

The people who posted here and worked at Shakey's all worked there at a time when Shakey's provided the stores with a bag of seasonings for the sauce. No one ever reported that they had to mix seasonings and spices from raw, bulk spices.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on July 19, 2011, 09:07:37 AM
I see that there is a decent want for the old Shakeys pizza sauce/skin..

If anyone is ever up in the Reno area, check out Boulevard Pizza.. The owners de-franchised themselves when Shakeys decided to change their ideals and recipes. You can go get the same pizza that you remember from back in the day. Including the ginormous knife used to cut the pies. They even have MoJos.. except the name had to be changed to Rojos.

I stumbled upon this thread and I had to share this info with everyone  :D

Thanks for posting.  That pizza looks great, and does have a Shakey's quality-look to it.  I've never been to Reno, but now I am thinking I need to change that.  ;)
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on July 19, 2011, 12:37:11 PM
Ernie, I took a look at the web site of Boulevard Pizza, actually located in the city of Sparks, Nevada. The make the following claims about their thin crust pizza, which mirrors my own work in developing a Shakey's clone.
1. They use fresh mozzarella.
2. They ferment their dough for 24 hours, and make it in a Hobart mixer.
3. Their sauce is made from thick (high specific gravity) puree.
4. They add three pounds of spices to each batch of sauce, but don't give the size of the batch. If they puree fresh onions and add sugar or dextrose to the sauce, that would account for most of three pounds.
5. They slice their own vegetables. Not sure if Shakey's uses pre-sliced vegetables these days.

So, they are doing what others who once worked at Shakey's posted. Even if they added a few herbs, spices, and flavors that were not used in any "official" Shakey's recipes, these pizzas should be outstanding since they use what a lot of really good independent pizzerias use.



Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 19, 2012, 06:05:32 PM
While not 100% there yet, this is our in-progress recipe for a clone of the bag-in-a-box sauce currently in use at Shakey's:

20 oz (by weight) SuperDolce Super Sweet, Super Heavy Pizza Sauce (Stanislaus Food Products, Beautiful Downtown Modesto, CA)
1/2 teaspoon dried minced onion
1/2 teaspoon basil leaves
1/4 teaspoon ground oregano
1/4 teaspoon garlic powder
4 Tablespoons dextrose
3 Tablespoons Michele Chiarlo  Barbera D'Asti  Le Orme wine
1/8 cup water

The water, minced onion, basil and garlic are mixed in a saucepan and cooked until the dried onion is translucent. After letting the mixture cool, the wine, ground oregano, and dextrose is added and stirred. Finally, the pizza sauce is added to the saucepan and everything is thoroughly mixed. The mixture is then placed in a quart-size reclosable plastic storage bag and left in the refrigerator for two days, being periodically agitated by hand to mix the ingredients.

The pizza sauce already contains salt and citric acid. Adding salt and powdered citric acid was not necessary. Many sauces you buy today lists "natural flavor" as an ingredient. As mentioned in a previous post, we think whatever flavor(s) they are adding tastes a lot like wine. Barbera D'Asti wine was the best match out of several wines we tried. This wine was mentioned in a lot of Internet posts as being a good accompaniment to pizza.
http://www.chiarlo.it/english/vini/barbera_d_asti/leorme/index.htm

A few remarks about the dry ingredients. After trying Spice Islands and Badia ground oregano, we think the Badia (Miami, FL) is a better match. It is a Hispanic market food item. We selected Lisy (Miami, FL) garlic powder as the best match. The closest match of basil leaves were the supermarket house brands made by McCormick; we bought it under the Hannaford label. The closest match of minced onions were the supermarket house brands produced by the ACH Food Companies, bought under the Food Lion label. The dextrose was bought from a nearby beer/wine home brewing store. Powdered citric acid, used in early experiments and with an Escalon tomato product, was purchased in a big international foods supermarket catering to Asian, Indian, and Hispanic customers.

The hardest part is finding a canned tomato product that duplicates the tomato paste and water mixture that they start with in the sauce factory. We literally tried every thick tomato product available at local supermarkets, as well as at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, and Super Walmart, including the new Classico line. We even obtained a #10 can of Heinz' current version of 1.06 specific gravity tomato puree. None of these products had the tomato flavor profile of the current Shakey's sauce. We now actually prefer the taste of this SuperDolce pizza sauce. This sauce has a coarser finish than the Shakey's sauce and can't be blended with much liquid because, according to Stanislaus,
"Of course, there is no such thing as a free lunch.  The tradeoff for SuperDolce®’s super sweet flavor is that it contains less moisture-retaining pectin, so it won’t "hold" as much added moisture as its cousin, Saporito® Super Heavy Pizza Sauce".

I believe the best match will come from one of the California fresh pack tomato puree or pizza sauce foodservice products. I did try a batch using Stanislaus Full Red tomato paste, but it was not a good match. The problem for us is that while we have two local foodservice distributors that will sell cash-and-carry, they only sell in full case lots. We will price out a shipment from Penn Mac. We no longer have any samples of genuine Shakey's sauce, and it will be a few months before we receive anymore. We can't place any other common herbs or spices in this sauce other than those mentioned. Some of the early heat we experienced turned out coming from the pepperoni drippings. It is possible there are additional herbs and spices added to the mix, or it may just be some "natural flavors" turned out by such fine folks as Kerry Americas and Wild Flavors.

Again, the criteria we are using is to clone the sauce currently used at the corporate-owned locations in California. We are testing against actual samples of baked pizza and sauce.

If the (legal) bookmakers in England were taking bets on who was making Shakey's sauce, I would put a few pounds Sterling down on Neil Jones Food Company/San Benito.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on February 05, 2012, 10:13:01 PM
Attached is an original menu from Shakey's on the Rockville Pike (Rockville, MD), circa 1975 (from my own collection of crap). Check out those prices  :o

I've also just learned that the building was finally demolished a few week ago.  :'(

Enjoy the menu.
Page 1 of 2
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on February 05, 2012, 10:13:56 PM
... and here's page 2 of 2.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on February 06, 2012, 12:54:28 PM
... although I've posted this previously as text, this picture is an actual can of what we used to make sauce at Shakey's on the Rockville Pike (Rockville, MD), circa 1975. See my previous posts for my best recollections on the recipe, but simply said it was Puree (see can picture), water and spice mix bag(s). The bags were just that, sealed paper bags of spices (plastic lined); not pouches of premade sauce. Sorry, I have no information on the ingrediant list from the spice bags. When I left Shakey's and the town of Rockville many years ago, I really haven't had shakey's pizza since then, until only a couple years ago when I took the opportunity to visit the Rancho Cucamonga store in California, purportedly the official corporate store. I also visited a couple other LA-area stores while in the area. The sauce at the Rancho C store really stood out to me as being the same as I remembered. It had that ZING. No telling who makes it, but the sauce is definately a Shakey's packaged product (I watched the truck unload cases of it). Probably pouches of sauce. Enjoy - let me know any questions - Lightmeter
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 07, 2012, 12:10:16 AM
The recipe for the sauce made in Rockville is likely buried under the straw shown in this picture. It was taken February 6, 2012 and shows part of the fence surrounding the site of the former Shakey's in Rockville. I may try to get a better picture at some later point, but I wanted to document the location relative to other buildings in the same shopping center. There are still aerial photos of the building on yp.com and both aerial and street views from June 2009 over at Google Maps.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Jet_deck on February 07, 2012, 12:30:59 AM
These pictures belongs here.  Specifically because I nearly tripped over the box trying to get to the necessary room.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 07, 2012, 02:00:40 PM
The photographs that lightmeter posted are truly remarkable. Its almost like the photo album of our lives. Here is an actual scan of the 2011 version of that Heinz puree label. The full 12 digit UPC number is 0-13000-57270-5. Heinz item number is 57270.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on February 08, 2012, 04:26:18 PM
Lightmeter

Thanks for the pic, it helps to have a confirm and it list spec. grav.

hay all, I've decided to post this here since it's the only recently active Shakeys thread.

current dough sheeting from Shakeys - access full arcticle here : http://nrn.com/article/franchisee%E2%80%99s-ideas-improve-shakey%E2%80%99s-efficiency#ixzz1dz75HZDb (http://: http://nrn.com/article/franchisee%E2%80%99s-ideas-improve-shakey%E2%80%99s-efficiency#ixzz1dz75HZDb)

Quote
June 15, 2008 To master Shakey’s thin-crust pizza, Hunter sent his managers to several weeks of intensive training in California.
The process involves mixing and proofing the dough and rolling it through a dough sheeter 12 to 14 times. Bubbles that form in the crust as the pizza travels through the conveyor oven have to be tapped down with a metal implement.
When you do this properly, the dough separates by layers and makes a very light and very crispy crust,” Hill said.
He noted that thin-crust pies account for about 60 percent of pizza sales in Southern California, the rest come from pan pizza.

Here is a vid from Mexico (NO sound) you can see how thin the dough is and how craggy the edges are. It's a DRY dough. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGpFs4QXEg




Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 09, 2012, 09:16:46 AM
I've fixed the two non-working links in Lydia's post above:

http://nrn.com/article/franchisee%E2%80%99s-ideas-improve-shakey%E2%80%99s-efficiency#ixzz1dz75HZDb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGpFs4QXEg

Here is an interesting food archeology question: What brands/types of canned tomato puree were available to food service operators in Central California in 1954?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Tscarborough on February 09, 2012, 11:19:04 AM
That $4.95 Shakey's favorite equates to $20.90 today, so it wasn't real inexpensive.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on February 09, 2012, 01:34:46 PM
I've fixed the two non-working links in Lydia's post above:

http://nrn.com/article/franchisee%E2%80%99s-ideas-improve-shakey%E2%80%99s-efficiency#ixzz1dz75HZDb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGpFs4QXEg

Here is an interesting food archeology question: What brands/types of canned tomato puree were available to food service operators in Central California in 1954?

Thanks for fixing those links.

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 09, 2012, 10:02:34 PM
Is there more than one official bag-in-box Shakey's sauce being produced right now? And how often do they change the formula?

Back on November 21, 2005, elsegundo posted the ingredients declaration of Shakey's sauce here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2157.msg18924.html#msg18924

Tomato puree from vine ripened tomatoes
Dextrose
Salt
Spices
Garlic powder
Citric acid
Maltodextrin
Natural flavor
Sodium citrate

Then on January 5, 2011, Jet_deck posted another ingredients declaration of Shakey's sauce here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12688.msg122425.html#msg122425

Tomato puree (water, tomato paste)
dextrose
salt
dried onions
spices
garlic powder
citric acid
natural flavors.

Then in this thread on February 7, 2012, Jet_deck posted another ingredients declaration under this message ID:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,518.msg171015.html#msg171015

Tomato Puree (Water, Tomato Paste)
Spice Blend (Dextrose, Salt, Spice, Garlic Powder, Not more than 2% Silicon Dioxide, Soybean Oil, Spice Extractive)

Contains Less Than 2% of: Sugar, Dehydrated Onion, and Citric Acid.

These two recent ingredient declarations lead one to question if there are two versions of the sauce in use, which is of interest in cloning efforts. I know of one quick service restaurant chain that purchases their custom-manufactured signature ingredient from two sources for business continuity purposes. It would be interesting to know if anyone spots cartons of Shakey's sauce with the ingredients declaration of January 2011 on them.

Finally, some folks like lightmeter might be interested in cloning the version that was in use in his or her local Shakey's back in the day. Of the people who used to work in a Shakey's and posted lists of the tomato products they used, we have in the list Hunt's tomato puree, Hunt's tomato sauce, and Heinz tomato puree. These issues should be kept in mind when trying out the sauce recipes posted here.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on February 13, 2012, 09:18:13 PM
I had some downtime to ponder it this weekend, so I’m posting the following “toppings” details. If you ever wondered why people have such a fond recollection of Shakey’s pizza, it’s here. The ingredients were fresh and top grade. Papa John’s would be seriously challenged to say better ingredients compared to this. Enjoy.

Note: This is provided purely as an archive for Shakey’s on the Rockville Pike (Rockville, MD), circa 1975, and isn’t claimed to be “the” recipe for all stores/franchises. These are the ingredients we used for the menu I presviously posted. The sauce and dough recipes on this forum continue to be in-progress and are clearly a store/franchise-specific thing. Same is true for topping menu items. Also, Shakey’s didn't precook sauce or ingredients - or any of the menu items.
We didn't have a food processor or chopper of any kind. We had a Hobart slicer, Hobart mixer/grinder and a knife.

Once again – not too bad for 30 years later, eh?…

Grotto, Dynadeuce, Joel – please weigh in. We seem to be on the same wavelength recipe-wise and prep-wise.

Sauce:
Sauce was wire whipped in the Hobart mixer to combine purée, water and spice mix, stored in 35 gallon+ Rubbermaid cans, two large batches per can. Sauce was spread on each pizza using a horsehair paintbrush (yes – you heard me), spread to the very edge each of each skin, and sometimes beyond. Sauce was not weighed. When pizzas were ready for the oven, each pizza was scraped with a painters putty knife around, and just under, the circumference edge before giving the peel a final wiggle to verify that the finished pizza was freely rolling on the corn meal base and ready for sliding off the prep peel into the oven. For a batch, we used three (3) cases of Heinz puree per batch, six #10 cans per case, plus 1 can water per case (adding water was a cost-wise thing that allowed us to add a small amount of water to each empty can to wash out any remaining puree). I’ll need to correct my previous post that stated water was added in equal amounts. That’s not correct.

Cheese:
Kraft mozzarella, provolone and cheddar. Parmesan was kept in shaker jars at each make-station of which a light dusting was added as a final topping just prior to baking. The same parmesan shakers were available for patrons to take to their tables for addition after pizzas were cooked.  Crushed, dried, red pepper flakes were also available to patrons to take to their tables. The three cheese mix was ground on premise in the Hobart grinder. The three cheese mix was supposed to be stored in covered bus tubs in the cooler, (everything in the cooler is required to be covered) but it was well known how much easier it was to prep pizzas with a slightly dry, crumbling mixture versus a freshly ground, wet mix, so the dehydrating effect of the cooler was allowed to dry the mix, otherwise the cooks complained - lots. When the Shakey’s cops showed up on occasion we knew to scramble to cover the bus tubs. So, at this store, on this date, there were no seven cheese pizzas at this store, only four. Cheese was weighed and spread on each pizza to within one-half inch of the edge. Proportions are a bit fuzzy. Mad _Ernie says 70% mozz, 15% prov, 15% cheddar which isn’t right. Cheddar was the least proportion. When I see posters with pictures of pizzas with orange cheddar spread on top, or burned cheddar pizzas, I know they’re off. Cheddar was just a small component. I’d estimate mozz/prov/ched something on the order of 80:15:1. Cheddar was a piece of the flavor/color profile, but not much.

Olives:
#10 cans, whole black olives, cans opened on bench opener, drained and sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Free toss on each pizza.

Green Peppers:
Fresh produce delivered daily, provided whole, stem core popped with a smack of the palm, or a jab of a knuckle, deseeded by pulling the stem core out with as much of the seeds attached as possible, a quick shake to get any additional loose seeds out, then sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Free toss on each pizza.

Onions:
Fresh produce delivered daily, whole white onions, soaked in a sink of water, then hand prepped by slicing caps off, then one slice down from top to bottom to release skin, peel skin and discard, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Free toss on each pizza. I can't remember if we diced the onions or used sliced onions on the pizzas. I do remember diced onions on the steak sandwiches though so we likely hand chopped enough for the sandwich make table. Perhaps we ran onions through the slicer twice? Anyone recall?

Pepperoni:
Hormel sticks provided in a cardboard case, est 24 per case, 3 feet long, each wrapped in deli wax paper casings, paper was sliced long-wise with box cutter razor and then peeled off, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler, slices were placed edge to edge on each pizza.

Lean Beef:
Fresh ground Hamburger delivered daily, mixed with ground black pepper, allowed to dry uncovered using the dehumidifier effect of the walk in cooler, hand mixed after drying, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Weighed for each pizza size, spread evenly. There may have also been a Shakey’s bag added here too. I don’t think so, I just don’t recall. I’m also not perfectly sure that we didn’t grind our own hamburger, but I don’t think so.

Italian Sausage:
Fresh never frozen thick sliced pork chops, delivered daily, low grade, high fat, ground on premises in Hobart grinder, mixed with bagged Shakey’s seasoning mix, hand mixed, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Much wetter than the beef mixture, the Italian sausage was weighed for each pizza and then small bits were pinched from the weighed mass and placed evenly on the pizza. Weighed for each pizza size, spread evenly.

Salami:
Hard Genoa, delivered in deli wax paper casings, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Slices placed evenly, edges close or touching.

Canadian Bacon: 
Hormel brand, delivered in plastic sleeves, high quality, est 4 inches diameter by 3 feet long, appearance of a nice canned ham, high fat, high water content, sliced on premise in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. Slices placed evenly, edges close or touching.

Eastern Polish Sausage:
Hmmmm, I forgot we had that, rarely sold other than the Captains Delight menu item, delivered as links, sliced on premises in Hobart slicer, stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler. I don't recall how it was measured for each pizza.

Anchovies:
The menu says they're sourced from Lisban. I believe it. Provided in steel cans, kept under lock and key until opened, cans opened with bench opener or old style "twist key" (really can't remember), very expensive, imported. One can was stored in one make station and returned to cooler each night.

White Mushrooms:
I can't say enough about the produce we got, mushrooms were beautiful fresh white mushrooms, est 2-4 inches avg, some larger, soaked in the prep sink full of water to remove dirt, sliced caps and stems on premise in Hobart slicer. (...and all this from someone who doesn't like mushrooms), stored in covered bus tubs in walk-in cooler, free toss on each pizza.

If the above are all considered toppings then corn meal must be included as the bottomings: each pizza was prepared on a healthy dusting of very fine yellow cornmeal. Provided in 25# bags, stored in rolling plastic food bins.

Enjoy - Lightmeter





Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 14, 2012, 01:43:31 AM

4. They add three pounds of spices to each batch of sauce, but don't give the size of the batch. If they puree fresh onions and add sugar or dextrose to the sauce, that would account for most of three pounds.



How certain are you this is the amount used? Where did you get this info?

If true, the rough amount of spices to tomato puree can be determined using the information provided by lightmeter. For the calculation I assume roughly 3T per oz of spices:

3 lbs spices x 16 oz/lb x 3T/oz = 144T spices.
3 cases puree x 6 cans/case = 18 cans puree + ~3 cans water = 21 cans x 10lb/can = 210 pounds of tomato sauce

Therefore 144T spices/ 210 pounds of tomato sauce = 0.685 T/lb of sauce. Or roughly 0.5-1 T per 16oz of tomato sauce.

Does that sound about right for this sauce? Seems a bit on the light side to me, but then again I don't have a good recollection of Shakey's sauce. This also assumes the "batch size" hasn't changed over time.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on February 14, 2012, 09:48:55 AM
Dan
I this is what I have from some of my OLD notes;

Quote
They used puree as their sauce with loads of spices in it....oregano onion & garlic powder parsley salt & pepper as well as a hint basil. An institutional size can of puree to 1/2 cup spice mixture.

It appears to have come from another chat or message board, but couldn't even begin to guess from where. Other stuff within those notes indicate that is may have been just prior to or in the beginning of Jacmar ownership.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on February 14, 2012, 10:27:33 AM
Here is an interesting food archeology question: What brands/types of canned tomato puree were available to food service operators in Central California in 1954?

Zing,
 
I don't know who had tomato puree in '54 but the big brands that processed tomatoes here were; Hunt's, Heinz, DelMonte/Contadina, Escalon, Stanislaus and Campbell's.  Any food service pamphlets I might have would be from the 60-70's. There may have been others in the more southern part of the central valley. In the upper part there is Sacramento Tomato. They may be worth looking into, but I think that current operations is solely manufacture of tomato juice. I also have no idea who Sysco has ever contracted with for any of their private label stuff.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on February 14, 2012, 08:44:08 PM
DNA Dan, My last post was meant to specify #10 cans, not ten pounds per can. Sorry. In fact, #10 cans (and Heinz puree cans) are 6 lb, 9 oz per can, not ten pounds. See my previous picture post of Heinz cans. i.e.  6 lb, 9 oz = 105 oz per #10 can (by weight)
I'm lovin’ the math. Here's mine for compare.

The following “oz” measures are by weight.
•   6 cans puree*105 oz per can = 630 oz puree
•   x 3 cases puree per batch = 1890 oz puree per batch
•   and
•   3 cans water = 300 oz water per batch (est 100 oz water per can)
•   = 2190 oz Shakey’s Sauce per batch
•   = 137 lb Shakey’s Sauce per batch

The following “oz” measures are by volume.
•   16 cups (volume) = 1 gallon (volume)
•   one #10 can = 13 cups (volume) – I measured it
•   18 cans of puree + 3 cans water = 21 cans per batch
•   21 #10 cans * 13 cups per can = 273 cups (volume)
•   = 17 gallons Shakey’s Sauce per batch

This makes perfect sense to me. We filled large Rubbermaid plastic cans with 2 batches per day and stored them in the cooler, which means the Rubbermaid cans had to hold the two batches, or 34 gallons. Many typical trash can sizes are in the 35 gallon range.
 ;D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 15, 2012, 04:18:29 PM
How certain are you this is the amount used? Where did you get this info?


I got the information from the website of Boulevard Pizza in Sparks, Nevada, just outside of Reno:
http://boulevard-pizza.com/thincrust.html

I decided to look for the website after user go4x4it posted at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,518.msg146573.html#msg146573

that Boulevard Pizza is one of the many stores that dropped the Shakey's franchise and went independent but made essentially the same pizza. Some travelers may be interested in former Shakey's restaurants that still serve similar pizza, Mojo potatoes, etc.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 15, 2012, 04:19:08 PM
Excellent~!

I think the volume measurement makes more sense for proportioning since the solids content can have a significant effect on the weight.

So is the 3lbs of spices a dry measurement? Or is that a 3lb liquid slug? It seems like there is confusion here with new stores just diluting down a concentrated stock.

3lbs is ~48oz, so 48oz/17gallons = 2.82 oz of spice for every gallon of sauce.

That sounds like a better ratio to me.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 15, 2012, 09:41:38 PM
Zing,
 
I don't know who had tomato puree in '54 but the big brands that processed tomatoes here were; Hunt's, Heinz, DelMonte/Contadina, Escalon, Stanislaus and Campbell's.  Any food service pamphlets I might have would be from the 60-70's. There may have been others in the more southern part of the central valley. In the upper part there is Sacramento Tomato. They may be worth looking into, but I think that current operations is solely manufacture of tomato juice. I also have no idea who Sysco has ever contracted with for any of their private label stuff.

Shakey's first store was opened in Sacramento in 1954. Just like the former employees who posted here that they made the sauce from canned tomato products, the original Shakey's must have also made sauce from #10 cans of tomato product. Unfortunately, the folks who made that sauce are probably no longer with us. But knowing who was canning tomatoes helps narrow down the foodservice purees to try out.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 17, 2012, 01:55:54 PM

"Here is a vid from Mexico (NO sound) you can see how thin the dough is and how craggy the edges are. It's a DRY dough. "

Lydia, this is an interesting observation that I have been ruminating on for a few days now. The dough does look dry, however it's very extensible. Look at how the folds do not "crack" from the dryness, they just curve up. It's almost as though these cracker styles have a low hydration but are spiked with a dough conditioner or something to improve the slackness of the dough. I will have to explore this further. Thanks for the observation and the link. I am shocked at how the dough performs on the sheeter given it's apparent dryness. If I make a dry dough, it does not perform like that on my sheeter, regardless of how thin I make it. Interesting.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 17, 2012, 09:20:09 PM
This thread says sauce, but in reviewing Shakey's crust, I highly recommend the following discussion threads:


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10557.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10557.0.html)


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10707.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10707.0.html)

Some highlights from forum alum elsegundo (notice the mention of the die cut method as seen in the video Lydia provided, as well as the <2% ingredients that include dough conditioners and soybean oil):

Part one: ingredients of premix flour, shortening, sugar, salt, yeast
 
1.   Weigh 9 pounds water at 95 degrees and add to mixer bowl.
2.   Open bag of Shakey’s Thin Crust 25# bag and pour into bowl.
3.   Attach dough hook to mixer, raise bowl.
4.   Mix on speed #1 for 7 minutes.
5.   Remove dough from bowl and place in 2 tubs and cover.
6.   Punch dough down when doubled in size.
7.   Place covered tubs immediately in cooler.

Premix:
Enriched flour
Partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil
Sugar
Salt
Yeast
Less than 2 percent:
Ammonium sulfate – dough conditioner, yeast food – nitrogen source
Calcium sulfate – dough conditioner, yeast food – raises pH
Dextrose – yeast food
Soybean oil – emulsifier, softener, relaxer

Part two:

mix 25 pounds of premix with 9 pounds water at 95 degrees for 7 minutes

Finally, Secret part.
Shakey's uses a die cut method, which means they take a prepared dough sheet and cut out circles.  What they do with the scraps is important.  They save them for the next day.

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on February 18, 2012, 11:19:35 AM
Dan, this one is for you and those who have been blessed with dough sheeters.

I found general instructions for sheeting the "old dough" into the new dough from one of the premix companies.
I revisited the  "The Great American" pizza blend that Elsegundo listed as one of the premix makers for the "California 3" many moons ago. Note that the formula has changed since his posting. Their current formula includes cornmeal. I would venture to say that this is most likely the current Shakey's mix. It's been a good handful of years since I've come across this premix, and I never tried it when it was on the shelves, but I will make sure I do grab some if it shows up again.

What I really liked about this find, was that it confirms that scrap dough is expected as part of the formula/procedure for the thin crust.

http://pizzablends.com/pdf/dry-mix.pdf (http://pizzablends.com/pdf/dry-mix.pdf)
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on February 18, 2012, 11:31:50 AM
My link isn't working again. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 18, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
My link isn't working again. Anybody know what I'm doing wrong?

Your pdf link worked for me, Lydia.

Thanks,

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Jet_deck on February 18, 2012, 02:10:11 PM
Does not work for me.

--Jet
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on February 18, 2012, 09:45:49 PM
What I really liked about this find, was that it confirms that scrap dough is expected as part of the formula/procedure for the thin crust.
http://pizzablends.com/pdf/dry-mix.pdf (http://pizzablends.com/pdf/dry-mix.pdf)

Lydia,

I can't argue with the conclusion that scraps are an expected part of the procedure - but only for cost saving reasons. I wouldn't agree that they are a required ingredient producing a specific Shakey’s characteristic. I've rolled skins with scraps, without scraps, old scraps and fresh scraps.

At the Rockville store, trainees were always taught to include scraps from the previous loaf cuttings, 10% per loaf but no more. The logic was that there was 10% scrap left from each loaf, but that wasn't really the case. For the entire shift, cuttings tended to be just over 10% and so the scrap pile over the course of the shift accumulated, and some dried out, particularly at the periphery of the pile. At the end of the shift there was usually a bus tub of scrap left. We trashed it at the end of the shift.

If a reused piece of scrap was too dry, the next loaf ran the risk of chunks of dried dough being dragged through the rollers like hard play doh. If the roller caught a chunk, the dough would rip, or best case there would be bits of dried dough crushed into in an otherwise smooth skin - not a desired characteristic. Considering the dehydrating effect of the cooler, we never reused the previous day's scraps in the next day's first loaves. The best skins were always from the first rolled loaf of the day when zero scraps were used. In all, we saved by reuse, but only to a point.

Lightmeter
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on February 18, 2012, 10:25:23 PM
Here's a puzzle... When we mixed Shakey’s dough using bulk flour, water, cake yeast and solid vegetable shortening I’ve previously guessed that our batches were something on the order of 35 pounds. I don't recall the weights of flour or water that went into it, but we cut the loaf into 5 pieces and placed them into 5 bus tubs, or 7 pounds per bus tub – I think. Seeing that Shakey’s went to a 25# premix bag plus 9 pounds of water results in 34 pounds per batch - and means I may be close in my recollections.

I won't swear to any of this, but it kinda makes sense, because I could grab one of those 1/5 pieces in one hand and slam it into a bus tub. However, reading a previous post by El Segundo, using the 25 pound premix bag plus 9 pounds of water, the resultant batch was cut into two pieces, and then placed into two bus tubs. That makes 17 pounds in each bus tub, equivalent weight to three one-gallon milk bottles, and I doubt I could have one-handed one of those into a bus tub.

There’s a huge difference in rising 17 pounds of dough in one bus tub versus 7 pounds in one bus tub.
I’m trying to back into the batch weights we used and this is stumping me. Anyone have any additional recollections that would resolve this difference?

Thanks - Lightmeter <<<< Since posting this, I've reconsider my 35 lb batch weight. It was likely much more than 35 lbs and so 17 lb per bus tub may indeed be correct. Read on>>>>>>
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 19, 2012, 07:30:00 PM
Does not work for me.

--Jet

It's not working for me, now, too.  I wonder what happened?

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: buceriasdon on February 19, 2012, 08:11:26 PM
They are on to us ::)

It's not working for me, now, too.  I wonder what happened?

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: norma427 on February 19, 2012, 08:39:32 PM
I copied and pasted Lydia’s link into my browser and it worked for me.  I did print out the page.  If I am allowed, and anyone wants me to, I can scan the sheet and post it here as a picture.

Norma
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 19, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Thanks Lydia. I am quite familiar with this company and product. Actually it was one of the first threads I started back in 2006 here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3588.0.html It looks like they just "freshened" up the brand a bit.

Man that brings back some memories of just how far my pizza skills have come. Elsegundo is also familiar with it as you can read in the thread. Unfortunately at the time I did not have a sheeter nor the foresight to realize just how far I would be taking this hobby seriously :chef:. At the time I had a neighbor who owned his own restaurant and he bought 3 bags of it for me. It used to be at smart and final or cash and carry type stores prior to 2005-ish but is practically vanished shortly thereafter. Anyway I remember I had some that was about 2 years old and I tried it sometime in 2008 before I left California. The dough would not rise once I mixed it. I guess the yeast had expired in it. I tried 2-3 pizzas on a couple different occaisions and it let me down. So assuming it had spoiled I threw out the last bag I had.

At the time I had contacted pizzablends on several occaisions but they would not sell retail to me. They would only sell through foodservice. I don't have a restaurant, so I pretty much gave up on it. It would be nice to try this again with my shiny new (used) sheeter  >:D  Perhaps pizzablends has changed their tune? I should try them again. I still have not seen it at any retail outlets.

Anyway....we should limit the crust talk here to the Shakey's crust thread. Lightmeter I am going to post a question in there for you next, so I hope you catch it. The party's moving.....
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 23, 2012, 02:44:46 PM
There’s a huge difference in rising 17 pounds of dough in one bus tub versus 7 pounds in one bus tub.
I’m trying to back into the batch weights we used and this is stumping me. Anyone have any additional recollections that would resolve this difference?

The problem is that elsegundo did not specify the size of the tub they were using. If you google restaurant bus tubs or restaurant dish boxes, you will find them available in several different sizes.

Also, back in the day, flour was most often sold in 50 and 100 pound bags. This adds one other unknown if the flour was first transferred to bus tubs.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Old Shakeys Cop on February 25, 2012, 11:53:49 AM
@ lightmeter:

My recollection of the sauce recipe was: 6 cases of puree and 2 1/2 bags of spice blend. Hand mixed with a large wire wisk. We never recommended doing it in the mixer because the acidity of the tomatoes was hard on the mixing bowl and would leach the metal taste to the sauce. Also, on the pepperoni, we used Swifts Premium Pepperoni. It was a natural casing pepperoni which was much smaller around, much redder in color and spicier than the Hormel.  It was also greasier, but the payoff in flavor was well worth it. I loved the flavor and texture of the pie when we used corn meal as well. I was sad to see the switch to baking papers. They were cleaner, required less oven maintenace, but the product lost something because of it. There was also a spice blend for the beef as well as the black pepper. The cheese blend 80/10/10 and the sausage and beef were much easier to apply if the product was fluffed occasionally in the walk-in after prepping.  It's amazing how much of this stuff stays with you after all these years. Your memory is pretty darn good!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Old Shakeys Cop on February 25, 2012, 12:05:03 PM
The Shakey's dough recipe for thin crust was:

42 lbs of flour
2 bags of dough blend
1 3/4 lbs of shortening
1 lb block of yeast
7 1/2 - 8 qts of water
mix for 8 - 10 minutes

put the water in first, it mixed better from the bottom up and there was no unmixed flour left at the bottom of the bowl. place mixed dough into a 35 gal nsf approved container and cover and allow to rise several times, then refrigerate for use later. ( and don't breathe in the fumes when you punch it down  :-)
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 25, 2012, 07:19:35 PM
The Shakey's dough recipe for thin crust was:

42 lbs of flour
2 bags of dough blend
1 3/4 lbs of shortening
1 lb block of yeast
7 1/2 - 8 qts of water
mix for 8 - 10 minutes

put the water in first, it mixed better from the bottom up and there was no unmixed flour left at the bottom of the bowl. place mixed dough into a 35 gal nsf approved container and cover and allow to rise several times, then refrigerate for use later. ( and don't breathe in the fumes when you punch it down  :-)

Any idea of the weight on the "2 bags of dough blend"? I assume this was a powder?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 25, 2012, 07:22:02 PM
The Shakey's dough recipe for thin crust was:

42 lbs of flour
2 bags of dough blend
1 3/4 lbs of shortening
1 lb block of yeast
7 1/2 - 8 qts of water
mix for 8 - 10 minutes

put the water in first, it mixed better from the bottom up and there was no unmixed flour left at the bottom of the bowl. place mixed dough into a 35 gal nsf approved container and cover and allow to rise several times, then refrigerate for use later. ( and don't breathe in the fumes when you punch it down  :-)

Excellent!  Thanks OS Cop!

In addition to what Dan asked, was the dough blend some kind of dough relaxer + enhancer?

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Old Shakeys Cop on February 25, 2012, 07:29:49 PM
On the dough blend the bags were not very big, maybe 1 1/2 lbs ea. and as to the ingrediants...really have no idea, it was never discussed. Kinda like the secret recipe for Coke.............Sorry.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: pizzaneer on February 25, 2012, 08:49:53 PM
Hi-

I'm going by the post title, and kinda coming out of left field a little.  I enjoyed Shakey's during the 70's and the 80's, and halfway :( through the 90's. 

My best approximation of the Shakey's sauce yet has been thus:

All from Aldi-
1 can tomato paste
1/2 jar tradtional spaghetti sauce
1/4 cup mild salsa.

on reading the ingredients list for all of these, there are no weird chemicals, preservatives, etc.  Just tomato puree in various concentrations + other stuff.

I add a little garlic, but thats to our taste.

Please give it a try - see what you think.  I admit I'm coming at the reverse-engineering backwards (making it "reverse-reverse engineering?), but I feel I have a really close taste and feel to the original.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 26, 2012, 10:26:16 AM
Welcome, Old Shakey's Cop!

I've been working with a California native to clone Shakey's pizza on the east coast for about 14 months now. Part and parcel of the search for the recipe is a search for sources of the (generally foodservice grade) food required to bake these pizzas.

There are a number of threads in both this section and the Cracker Style pizza section about cloning Shakey's pizza. One of the best posts is this one which gives an insight into to what was in those mysterious bags that were added to foodservice products:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12688.msg122425.html#msg122425
My own research has me convinced that there was and still is quite a bit of variation in the final product from store-to-store, due to different franchisees using different brands/types of the various foodservice ingredients.

I do have a few questions about the flour, cheese, and yeast. Was the flour all purpose, bread, or high gluten? Also, was it bromated? Information gleaned at several locations of franchisees who are "rolling their own" as well as at stores that dropped the franchise indicates they are presently using high gluten flour such as Pillsbury Balancer or General Mills All Trumps. Was the low moisture mozzarella whole milk or part skim? Also, was the cake yeast baker's yeast or brewer's yeast?

Did the Shakey's Cops enforce the same recipes all across the country, or were there regional differences?

MODIFIED to add question about cheese.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Old Shakeys Cop on February 26, 2012, 11:23:25 AM
Hi ZING.

The only specific I can remember about the flour for the thin crust is that it was NOT high Gluten. The high gluten flour was used for making the thick crust dough. Yes, the recipes were supposed to be the same system wide. When I went to Shakey's University ( and yes, there really was one) back in the 70's in Lakewood, Colorado, there were no variances offered for regional taste differences. I'm sorry, I don't remember the specifics on the yeast.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 26, 2012, 12:41:51 PM
I went to Shakey's University ( and yes, there really was one) back in the 70's in Lakewood, Colorado, there were no variances offered for regional taste differences.

I was suddenly reminded of this movie from my youth !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9521kXLAL2w&feature=related

OSC - You are a huge bank of information! I hope you continue to stick around on the forums. Do they ever have class reunions for SU alumni?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 26, 2012, 01:04:04 PM
These are photos of a Shakey's thin crust pepperoni pizza bought from a corporate store in early 2012. The wording on one edge of the box reads "100% Whole Milk Mozzarella Cheese". This weasel-wording does not preclude other cheeses blended in with it, and to my taste buds it is indeed a blend. The pictures were taken just before the pies were wrapped up in order to smuggle them to the east coast. I had to apply Auto Brightness Correction to the photos.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 26, 2012, 01:42:33 PM
That's a dead ringer for Round Table pizza. I wonder if these guys all ripped each other off? The histories on Round Table and Straw Hat pizza both date their existence to 1959. Shakeys however goes back to 1954. I think it's clear that Shakeys was making this style before the other two. They just didn't have as much brand recognition as Round Table. Straw Hat is probably the least known among the three. Dang Zing, now I have to go make some dough for tomorrow. :chef:

Comparable shots of the same pie from Round Table can be seen towards the bottom on Page 3 of the RT thread here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1911.40.html The first few shots are pictures of their deep dish, which is a completely different animal.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Old Shakeys Cop on February 26, 2012, 03:46:33 PM
No, never any reunions sadly. Me-N-Eds was an off-shoot of Shakey's. It was started by Ed Plummer, Shakey Johnson original partner. As for Round Table, I never really researched it, but the urban myth back in the day was that it was started by former employees of Shakey's which would account for the similarities. I agree though, when I can't find Shakey's, Round Table seems to be the next best thing. I've been sad for many years about Shakey's. I truly believe that the chain was destined for greatness, but due to corporate mismanagement and greed over the years they managed to all but kill the chain. The people who own the chain now are REAL pizza people and have been franchise owners for 35 - 40 years that I know of. If that chain has ever had a chance to revitalize, it's NOW under their leadership. I wish them all well and look for to a vital new Shakey's.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 26, 2012, 10:00:59 PM
That's a dead ringer for Round Table pizza. I wonder if these guys all ripped each other off? The histories on Round Table and Straw Hat pizza both date their existence to 1959. Shakeys however goes back to 1954. I think it's clear that Shakeys was making this style before the other two. They just didn't have as much brand recognition as Round Table. Straw Hat is probably the least known among the three. Dang Zing, now I have to go make some dough for tomorrow. :chef:

Comparable shots of the same pie from Round Table can be seen towards the bottom on Page 3 of the RT thread here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1911.40.html The first few shots are pictures of their deep dish, which is a completely different animal.

Dan, you bring up something that I have wondered about for years, as well, at least certainly between Round Table and Shakey's, and both of them starting off in California.  To my recollection, I never had a Straw Hat pizza, although there were at least a couple locations here in town in the 70's (one of them has been a BBQ restaurant now for >30 years).  Happy Joe's Pizza is a local chain in Iowa that also "borrowed" alot from Shakey's (the founder was a former Shakey's franchisee).  As you can see from the photos below, like RT and Shakey's, they all possess a similar thin crust, as well as taking the sauce right to the edge, along with a similar blend of cheeses.  As OSC mentioned, I would not be surprised if at least one of the founders of Round Table was a former Shakey's employee.

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 27, 2012, 11:28:41 AM
What is that last pizza? Taco salad? Looks pretty darn good to me. Do they use tomato sauce on it or some spicy salsa type sauce?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 27, 2012, 08:09:49 PM
What is that last pizza? Taco salad? Looks pretty darn good to me. Do they use tomato sauce on it or some spicy salsa type sauce?

Good eye, Dan.  Yes, it is a Taco pizza.  That is supposed to be Happy Joe's claim to fame (they claim to have invented it).  I think they do use some kind of salsa on the pizza instead of regular pizza sauce.  That craze came after I stopped frequenting HJ's in the 80's and then they left town.  There is a former HJ's franchisee who opened his own place in Independence, MO and it is more like the original Happy Joe's pizza than the real HJ's today.  Sort of like when former Shakey's franchisee's broke away or stayed open and kept the original recipes going after the management at Shakey's started driving the business into the ground.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: SquirrelFlight on February 28, 2012, 10:53:24 AM
I've been trying to replicate a taco pizza for years.  I have no idea who actually "invented" it, I just know that you can get them all over in Oregon where I grew up.  And that they aren't to be had anywhere in the Phoenix area (at least I haven't been able to find one).

The desire to have a taco pizza is what brought me to pizzamaking.com in the first place!  I think it may be time to give the Shakey's crust clone a try...
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 28, 2012, 10:27:30 PM
For more on Happy Joe's and their taco pizza, check out here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sXt-apYdqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sXt-apYdqo)

here

http://www.happyjoes.com/menu.php?category=3 (http://www.happyjoes.com/menu.php?category=3)

and here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Joe%27s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Joe%27s)

You can also find various taco pizza recipes on the internet fairly quickly by just using a standard search engine.  Here are a couple examples:

http://sweetiepetitti.blogspot.com/2011/04/happy-joes-taco-pizza.html (http://sweetiepetitti.blogspot.com/2011/04/happy-joes-taco-pizza.html)

http://www.tastebook.com/recipes/2268561-Happy-Joe-s-Taco-Pizza (http://www.tastebook.com/recipes/2268561-Happy-Joe-s-Taco-Pizza)
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on February 29, 2012, 11:09:29 AM
 I would suggest the little corn chip "strips" you get in a taco salad over the crumbled chips. Just seeems like such a choking hazard with pieces that big. Then again I eat pizza fast.  :-D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: SquirrelFlight on February 29, 2012, 04:08:44 PM
In my experience, the lettuce and tomatoes are messy enough to really preclude eating it fast   :D

Thanks for the links, ME, but the toppings really are straight-forward.  In fact, I've been working on frying my own beans since you can get pounds of dried pinto beans for the same price as a small can.  The taco pizzas I liked best were the seasoned the beans (no "pizza" sauce underneath - the seasoned beans *are* the sauce), but left the ground beed unseasoned.

The part that is still eluding me is the perfect crust to put it on.... which maybe I've found  ;D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Extra Cheese on January 19, 2014, 06:50:03 PM
I hope this is the best place to post this tidbit.  I introduced myself to the forum with this in my post:

"I had a boyfriend in the late 70's/early 80's that worked as an assistant manager at Shakey's while we were in college.  Sometimes I would help him close up so that he could get out in time to study or have fun. 

I tried to figure out what was in that sauce back then and found one very unusual ingredient on the spice pack's list. 
I remember them mixing up the sauce at closing time in a "bucket" and they would let it sit at least overnight, sometimes longer.  Most of the ingredients were generic and the pack said "spices".  There was one standout ingredient that I noticed.  I'm here to share that info.  I read the entire sauce thread and didn't see it listed.  It appears that there were some changes to formulations over the years.  I guarantee that this ingredient adds ZING!"


Well, that ingredient that surprised me was mustard.  So, I use Coleman's dry mustard in many of my sauces to add a bit of zing to my sauce.  It seems to help round out the flavor.  You just need a tiny bit.  It is an ingredient in many traditional American Chinese restaurant mustards too.
(Not the vinegary mustards that are in packets.) 

I hope this tip helps! 

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 19, 2014, 10:42:24 PM
Welcome, EC!

Thanks for your contribution. Elsewhere on this forum is a photograph of the cardboard box today's fully prepared Shakey's pizza sauce is shipped in. There is currently no mustard listed on the ingredients declaration. I will add some mustard to my next batch of sauce.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: yonkiman on February 05, 2014, 08:55:43 AM
So, after almost 10 years of recollections and discussion, does anyone feel they have a dough/sauce recipe that really nails that original 70s Shakey's flavor?  Have we converged on a final recipe?

In my mind 70s/early-80s Shakey's is still the perfect pizza.  Would love to see a complete recipe someone like I (not a natural in the kitchen) could follow.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 05, 2014, 10:39:01 PM
No, we have not converged on a final recipe. There are a number of reasons for this, mostly because there was quite a bit of variation from franchisee-to-franchisee and from one section of the country to the other, partly because they were buying ingredients from different foodservice distributors. So the question becomes, "which particular Shakey's"? Other reasons are that none of the previous posters who worked for Shakey's ever wrote down details. Back in the 70's, franchisees were already used pre-packaged add-ins to the flour and tomato puree or other tomato product they were using. Also, food service cheeses may not be the same as back then. Sadly, interest is waning just like interest in the Howard Johnson chain has waned. I myself am concentrating on the current product as sold in Southern California. My memory and senses are not good enough to know if I nailed the recipe from, say, the Washington, DC area, correctly.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Skinny on April 08, 2014, 02:53:59 PM
This thread brings back memories! As a kid we used to eat at one of the original Shakey's. It was somewhere near Walnut Creek California. The waiters wore straw boater hats and red and white striped shirts. They had an old player piano playing ragtime music.  Dad and mom would have a pitcher of beer and us kids would have a pitcher of orange soda. That was my first memories of eating pizza. That was over 50 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday. :D
Clayton
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Old Shakeys Cop on July 04, 2014, 02:39:37 PM
Nice post Lightmeter, it takes me back. By the way the Cheese mix was supposed to be 80/10/10. Keep the memories alive!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: billbird2111 on August 21, 2014, 02:45:01 PM
So, after almost 10 years of recollections and discussion, does anyone feel they have a dough/sauce recipe that really nails that original 70s Shakey's flavor?  Have we converged on a final recipe?

In my mind 70s/early-80s Shakey's is still the perfect pizza.  Would love to see a complete recipe someone like I (not a natural in the kitchen) could follow.

I think Shakey Johnson may have taken that original recipe to his grave. If anyone really had it, it probably would have been revealed by now. The fact that it hasn't tells me something. I've seen lots of employee comments about big cans of tomato sauce mixed with big spice packets. That came about after Shakeys had grown into a very large franchise -- probably right about the time that Shakey Johnson sold out.

I remember doing the same type of mixing for another, competing, pizza chain called Rico's Pizza, which also got its start in Sacramento and is still here. The franchise owner's name was "Mickey." One night, while mixing an emergency round of dough, Mickey asked a nearby employee to check on it. The unnamed employee stuck his finger in the dough and yelled out: "IT'S STILL STICKY, MICKEY."

That employee was fired that night as I recall. I would follow him out the door a few weeks later. I had a hard time learning how to properly toss pizza dough. In fact, many of my large pizza creations came out shaped like footballs. While that may be a great skill for today's market -- it didn't work in 1979.

Shakeys was already a big deal by the time I came of age in Modesto (near Sacramento) in the 1970's. As a kid, there was no finer treat than going to Shakeys Pizza Parlor, which was built to resemble an old farmhouse type shack. I always wondered why they didn't have a nicer location until I got around to visiting other restaurants and found the locations to be exactly the same! Today, that old Shakeys location still exists. I'm not sure what place calls it home now, but it's probably nothing like Shakeys!

I've found the notations about the addition of citric acids and mustard to be quite interesting. I love spicy sauces that carry a special "ZING" to them. There aren't many of them left.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: billbird2111 on August 21, 2014, 02:48:12 PM
One thing I forgot to add is the neon sign for the original Shakeys pizza parlor still exists. It's been preserved in a local watering hole in East Sacramento. It's a beautiful thing to look at. It's quite old -- and a little marked up -- but still lights up just as brightly as it ever did.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on August 22, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
Hi Billbird


Hello from a Modesto native (now in Alabama). Welcome to the forum.  :D


Rico's is still in the area but "nothing"... not even a hint of being the same pizza. Boy do I miss those monster sized party pizzas. :drool:


So, if you have any insider info, I'd of course appreciate it.  :angel:


I spoke with one of the current Ricos owners at the Turlock location. He said that their family took over all the Ricos and that they also own the "Strings Italian Restaurants" that have shown up in the central valley in the last decade or two.  He said they are actually a Greek family.




_______________________________


Speaking of sauces and acids.... My Dad and I (both super-tasters) would go round and round about whether or not Shakey's sauce had vinegar in it. This was actually a strange event. My dad loved vinegar and I can only tolerate it under special conditions, so if it "was" vinegar we should have been in agreement.  ???


So, all these years I've been operating under the assumption that maybe the pepperoni was "old-world style" that was made with vinegar, and that might have been what he was tasting.


Now, I am currently working on a Tapatia sauce clone. When you smell this sauce you'd swear it had vinegar...the aroma and the nose tingle...but "when I taste it", it clearly isn't vinegar. Vinegar isn't even an ingredient, it only has acidic acid. I thought "yes"!!! That would explain Everything   :o [size=78%]   [/size]


So I've made a note to try it first when I take on this sauce again and its on my list to order online.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on August 22, 2014, 02:16:12 PM
I have another treat for the shakeys fans out there.


I came across this on a search binge and what a find  :chef:


I tried attaching this a link but got an error message  ???  so try cut and paste in browser window.


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19881215&id=paNRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nhIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5888,4081280 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19881215&id=paNRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nhIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5888,4081280)


Its a recipe given Milwaukee Sentinel December 15, 1988 by the one and only Tom Miller, former legacy owner of the Shakeys in West Ellis.  They annually make the mojo potatoes for the state fair.


Quote
Tom Miller, owner sent the recipe. Although the breading recipe, a seasoned flour that lightly coats the chicken is secret, Miller gave the marinade ingredients and directions on how to prepare the chicken at home.


Shakey's Golden Fried Chicken


3 T beef bouillon
3 T oregano
3 T black pepper
3 T garlic powder
6 T salt
1/2 gallon cold water
8-9 piece chicken, cleaned
Seasoned flour to coat


Combine seasoning and mix with water to make a marinade.
Marinate chicken 24-36 hours in refrigerator.
When ready to cook, rinse off marinade and discard.
Coat chicken with seasoned flour mixture and deep fat fry in 325 degree oil for 11 minutes.






makes 4-5 servings




Lydias Notes:


* I do recall seeing beef boullion next to the Lawry's food service bucket of seasoning (Modesto, McHenry Ave location), but I assumed this was for the spaghetti sauce not the chicken  :-\
* 9 piece cut would be the vintage KFC cut. The keel is separated from the chicken breast.
* I've seen mentioned that the "Kentucky Colonels" is the right breading but I've tried it a couple of times and it wasn't right.
* For mojos GM AP was perfect but had to use fine popcorn salt.
* 11 minutes tends to indicate pressure frying times
* Henny Penny pressure fryers were used by Shakeys restaurants.


In addition to that I thought I might mention that the The Millers have another business, Baker’s Quality Pizza Crusts in Waukesha, which began as the commissary supplying crusts to the numerous Shakey’s restaurants in the area but now supplies other restaurants. Also, they expect to return yearly to State Fair to sell Mo-Joes and pizza.


But to my knowledge current shakeys out west use Pizza blends, now owned by C&H Gunther and White Lily flour.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: amiart on October 04, 2014, 12:34:05 AM
Attached is an original menu from Shakey's on the Rockville Pike (Rockville, MD), circa 1975 (from my own collection of crap). Check out those prices  :o

I've also just learned that the building was finally demolished a few week ago.  :'(

Enjoy the menu.
Page 1 of 2

If it matters, There is a tiny bit of possibly helpful information.. on this menu ?
It states from the Giant 750 degree ovens.. Is that bit of information helpful in anyway ?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on October 06, 2014, 11:37:40 PM
If it matters, There is a tiny bit of possibly helpful information.. on this menu ?
It states from the Giant 750 degree ovens.. Is that bit of information helpful in anyway ?
That line about "from the 750 degree" ovens appears in a lot of vintage Shakey's advertising. I even have a picture of a oven used in a Shakey's franchise in the Midwest somewhere where that 750 degree number was painted on the oven. They certainly are not using that temperature today; present conveyor ovens run about 475 degrees Farenheit. I don't recall what people who worked at Shakey's 30-40 years ago said about baking temperature, but 750 sounds kind of high. The ovens may have been able to reach 750 degrees F, but that is not to say they were set to that figure on the thermostat.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on October 07, 2014, 02:00:57 PM
That line about "from the 750 degree" ovens appears in a lot of vintage Shakey's advertising. I even have a picture of a oven used in a Shakey's franchise in the Midwest somewhere where that 750 degree number was painted on the oven. They certainly are not using that temperature today; present conveyor ovens run about 475 degrees Farenheit. I don't recall what people who worked at Shakey's 30-40 years ago said about baking temperature, but 750 sounds kind of high. The ovens may have been able to reach 750 degrees F, but that is not to say they were set to that figure on the thermostat.

I echo those comments.  I have seen that 750 degree oven temperature on a number of Shakey's advertising, mainly from the 60's.  After that it seemed to go away.  They were using either Blodgett or Baker's Pride deck ovens back then, as most pizza restaurants did.  I am sure the methods and formulas of the original Shakey's recipes have been tweaked and modified over the years.  My most recent visit to a Shakey's was this past June in Anaheim, CA, and they, too, were using the conveyor ovens, which I typically am not fond of.  They don't generate the heat of a good deck oven (as evidenced by the final product) but they do makes things quicker and consistent, which is what chains typically value more than quality.
The Shakey's in Oroville, CA still uses a traditional deck oven (or at least they did in 2010 and 2012 when I visited there).

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: marc999 on November 15, 2014, 09:43:19 PM
As of June 2014, Oroville, CA was still using deck ovens.

I worked in the Terra Linda / San Rafael Shakey's in California about 1972.

Dough - "punching the dough" and "dough hits": proof positive that humans will always find ways to distort reality. CO2 and ethanol.

Our dough was mixed in a Hobart and 1 batch, when risen, would fill a plastic trash can sized food container.

How do they make matzoh?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on November 18, 2014, 12:30:16 AM
Martha Stewart once did a feature on how matzos are produced at the Streit plant in lower Manhattan. It can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTGd8gMKHbs
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on September 04, 2016, 01:57:27 PM
Shakeys Sauce
It’s amazing that this topic was started in 2004, and was still going strong until early 2014 when the chatter stopped. It’s equally amazing that as I return in 2016, to have a peek at progress, there still isn’t a confident result of what a Shakeys Sauce recipe is... So, in the chance that some of the early contributors can be coaxed back, I'm posting this recipe as a base case. It has ample room for refinement, but working from a base recipe, others can tweek the individual ingredients up or down as needed. The Shakeys Pizza Sauce Calculator for the base recipe allows experimentation, repeatability and scalability. https://personal.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8d6e638c58666fb2a1a9 (password: SOTRP)

Having re-read the entire topic a couple of times, this post brings forward my conclusions drawn from my personal experience plus what I consider to be the more credible posters, and includes my confidence on each ingredient, and ultimately my best guess base recipe. This recipe and my assumptions are an attempt to reverse engineer the sauce recipe for Shakeys on the Rockville Pike, Maryland (SOTRP), circa 1975. Other contributors likely have other memories based on other store recipes, years or region.

This recipe is inspired in part by considering “What would Sherwood ”Shakey” Johnson have done?”. Sherwood was not a scientist. Calcium water treatment? I doubt it. Aggressive food additives? I doubt it. Expensive and complex flavor additives? I doubt it. Bulk dried herbs, salt and sugar is like any other packaged pizza sauce. Keep it simple. Don’t over think this. It’s not difficult to imagine Sherwood’s recipe originating from a family spaghetti recipe or something he brought home from Europe after the war. Consider the 50s in which he worked. Fresh out of the war, running a bar. Consider the technologies of the day. Consider the lack of government food safety. I admit that my recipe quantities still lack evidence leaving my recipe wide open to refinement. Bring forward your own assumptions and conclusions.

Assumptions:
There was no wine or (soybean) oil added to the SOTRP sauce. The puree was not cooked on-site prior to use. There was no red pepper or mustard seed in the recipe. Confidence 99%.

As an anti-caking agent, Silicon Dioxide is not needed for a home recipe. Confidence 100%.

2 ½ bags of ingredient mix was added to each 1,890 oz batch of puree. The ingredient bags were comprised mostly of green herbs and dry ingredients as in those listed here. Confidence 95%.

I estimate each ingredient bag was 16 oz (by volume) and 32 oz (by weight). Ingredient bags used by SOTRP were not loose packed, but also not tightly compressed, i.e. they did not exhibit any settling. As such I estimate 80 oz dry ingredients (by weight) were added to each 1890 oz batch of puree (eighteen #10 cans of Heinz puree), or 4.23% dry ingredients to puree (by weight). Confidence 60%.

Tomatoes were from Heinz Puree (Water and Tomato Paste), 1.06 SG. Salt was not an original ingredient listed on the puree cans. Current cans include salt. Be careful not to double up. Confidence 100%.

One #10 can of Heinz puree = 13 cups (by volume) = 105 oz (by weight). Confidence 100%.

SOTRP added 105 oz water (by weight) to each eighteen can batch of puree, i.e. water weight = 1/18 puree weight. Confidence 100%.

Early on, Sherwood would not have had FDA rules. However, the use of citric acid could be a result of later franchise packaging, or possibly an artifact of early canning recommendations. In either event, it is a very strong flavor ingredient and so I included it at half of today's recommended canning requirement. Confidence 50%.

I have no idea if, or what, any additional “Natural Flavor” ingredients are, but I suspect it may just be referring to the Citric Acid. Confidence 30%.

I decided on a Basil to Oregano ratio of 3:1. Confidence 10%.

Table sugar (glucose) is not listed in the following recipe since the posted ingredient lists specify dextrose. As such, I’ve not added more sweetness via table sugar. I suspect the reason sugar is listed in more recent ingredient lists is that sugar exists as one ingredient in an otherwise multi-ingredient packing preserver that may also include the silicon dioxide and acetic acid. I may be wrong on this one since Dextrose is about 25% less sweet than table sugar, and since table sugar includes the sweeter fructose element it may indeed be an intended element of the recipe. Regardless, I’ve excluded it. Confidence 50%.

To experiment, refer to the included download link for my Sauce Calculator. The link is active for 1 year from 9/5/2016.

Enjoy - Lightmeter

Shakeys Pizza Sauce Recipe (all measures are by weight)
Wet Ingredients
•   Tomato Puree (Water+Tomato Paste) = 20 oz.
•   Water = 1.11 oz
Dry Ingredients
•   Dextrose = 0.40 oz
•   Salt = 0.27 oz (exclude if the puree lists salt)
•   Dried Onion = 0.05 oz
•   Dried Basil = 0.05 oz
•   Dried Oregano = 0.02 oz
•   Garlic Powder = 0.04
•   Citric Acid = 0.02
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on September 04, 2016, 02:01:25 PM
... and for reference, I measured the following weight to volume conversions. They’re approximations.
      
                                               Weight/Volume

Table Sugar/Dextrose, average   5.50   oz/cup
Water   8.00   oz/cup
Salt   0.60   oz/Tbs
Dried Basil   0.05   oz/Tbs
Dried Onion   0.30   oz/Tbs
Dried Oregano   0.05   oz/Tbs
Garlic Powder   0.40   oz/Tbs
Citric Acid   0.46   oz/Tbs
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on September 09, 2016, 11:06:35 PM
Funny how I also got curious this week to see if there was any activity on the Shakey's threads. This was after watching several videos on Shakey's Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/shakeyspizzaparlor
The CEO is again trying to expand the chain. There is also a video of a blogger being shown how to make a Shakey's pizza.

I find lightmeter's project interesting. I think his recipe is very close. While I did eat at the Rockville Pike location several times ~30 years ago, there is no way I would know when I got the sauce right; I just can't remember. I agree there was no wine used in the Shakey's in the Washington, DC area. We are attempting to clone what is sold in the corporate-owned restaurants at the present time on the west coast. I always noticed the sauce in west coast restaurants tasted different from that used in east coast restaurants.

On the wine issue, Tierial did ascertain that at least one parlor used wine:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=27341.msg334757#msg334757
It is certainly possible that some Shakey's are still adding wine to the bag-in-a-box sauce after opening the bag.

My interest has waned slightly, as we are waiting for a big break, like someone confessing what was in the bags of sauce spice mix and dough conditioner mix. We are happy with the sauce recipe I posted earlier in this thread, as it is better than anything used around here. But we now think Shakey's is using cheese from Leprino or a similar frozen cheese supplier. Also, the sauce probably uses industrial flavors such as used by manufacturers of jarred pasta sauce. Both items cannot be obtained in small quantities and at a reasonable price by the average home cook here. I don't have the skill to make these ingredients or to figure out what supermarket items will take the place of these food ingredients. In other words, they beat us.

I also find it interesting that no current Shakey's employees have ever commented here. I'm also looking forward to see how many people will try to recreate the sauce from the era of packages of dry sauce spices and dough conditioner mixes.

EDITED to correct the link to Tierial's post.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on September 10, 2016, 08:56:23 AM
Hey Guys

Glad to see this topic spark!

The big reveal?

Keep an eye out for a topic started by me in the near future. I'm pretty excited about it, I've gotten a hold of "official" info for Shakeys and ME n Eds. It going to take me a bit to finish sifting through the irrelevant info and condensing it into a more user friendly format for the forum. I've been working on it for a few weeks already.

Although there isn't a reveal for whats in the sauce for either place, what can say, is that the fermentation method for the skins is definitely contributing a tangy wine like flavor to the sauce. It's also comes off as what I would call "zippy" and it instantly made me think of your handle "zing". It was something that actually surprised me, I had never experienced a dough fermentation that contributed anything to the sauce itself.

And I've found a pic of an old goody bag for the Shakey's dough. The ingredients are illegible but the supplier is clear and still in business.

So, just give me a bit of time to finish up and I'll get things posted.

lightmeter
I only have experience with California locations, and I'm so glad to see you're still around and contributing. It's greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on September 10, 2016, 08:22:01 PM
Thanks Lydia, glad to see you and zing pop back to up. Stealing a quote here... John Belushi " I'm putting the band back together."  "You'll never get Mad Earnie and fabulous DNA Dan out of them high-payin' gigs."

Looking forward to your reveal!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: DNA Dan on September 11, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
Fabulous? Bah. Although thanks for the compliments. I'm still around lurking on the board now and then. Been cranking out pretty good crackers for party after party over summer. Also traveling quite a bit with the family. I got the chance to meetup with John (aka Fazzari) back in August which was a blast. Those guys have killer pizza. No wonder the place was packed on an evening during the week.

As for Shakeys - I am still interested in *THAT SMELL*. Perhaps Lydia's fermentation secret will reveal new insights. You're killing us now Lydia! I don't get the Cali much anymore but wonder if *THAT SMELL* is still present in their product? Perhaps you regular connoiseurs  can chime in.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on November 16, 2016, 11:22:08 AM
I just bought a copy of Burt Wilson's 2001 book "Shakey and Me", his memoir of the times he spent with business associate Sherwood Johnson and comments about the Shakey's chain. I now have a better idea of why the chain flourished in the 50's and 60's. I used to work with a Scottish woman who would have called some of the main characters in this book "nut jobs". It certainly is a good read.

I wanted to mine this book to try to find an answer to Lightmeter's question “What would Sherwood ”Shakey” Johnson have done?”. Since this book is only a memoir and not scholarly research, I can't vouch that what is in this book is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Burt writes that Shakey and Ed first tasted pizza at the El Chico restaurant in Sacramento, where Italian cook Aldo (who Shakey's later hired) made the pizza. Burt further states that Shakey's Swedish mother received many recipes from many of the housewives in the predominantly Italian neighborhood of East Sacramento. Burt writes:

".....So Shakey and Ed then set up a kitchen in Shakey's garage and began to experiment with every kind of concoction, using all the ingredients they could think of. Soon they hit on a particularly flavorful blend of 37 different herbs, oils and spices which they immediately labeled their "secret sauce" - long before McDonald's ever classified their hamburger sauce as "secret". With the pizza ingredients now in place, Shakey and Ed each put up $850 and with the promised additional credit and support of the local Lucky Lager Beer distributor, the two young entrepreneurs were ready to go into business."*

*Burt Wilson, Shakey and Me, (Sacramento: Paloria Press, 2001), 9-10.

I don't doubt that Shakey's first sauce had a lot of ingredients in it. Just take a look at the huge list of ingredients used in preparing supermarket frozen entrees today. However, restaurateurs have been known to lie about what is in their food. I very much doubt today's Shakey's bag-in-box sauce contains 37 ingredients.

Shakey's did a lot of advertising back then. The May 12th, 1969 issue of Broadcasting Magazine reported Shakey's was the 49th largest advertiser on network radio in 1968, sandwiched between Curtis Publishing (Ladies Home Journal, Saturday Evening Post) and RCA Consumer Electronics. Page 28 at:
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-BC/BC-1969/1969-05-12-BC.pdf

Burt Wilson posted his 2004 video about the Silver Dollar Jazz Band on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZMPdVjWI-M
It is notable because it includes footage of Shakey Johnson from 1994 on the 40th anniversary of Shakey's at the 7 minute 47 second point. The entire second half of this video discusses jazz musicians playing at Shakey's.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on November 16, 2016, 02:11:01 PM
Awesome find! Thanks for the youtube link. Everytime I think I've seen everything, there's always something else.  :D




Pardon my West Coast pizza History Intermission:


I had read that about Chico's and was pretty surprised by what I came up with a few weeks back. I found these


http://midlifecrisishawaii.com/memories/chicos-pizza-revisited-with-wes-ralph-popham (http://midlifecrisishawaii.com/memories/chicos-pizza-revisited-with-wes-ralph-popham)


Especially note how the menus are nearly identical to vintage "shakeys" menus


http://www.pnwvhfs.org/photos/2013/full/2013-10-11-conference-05078.jpg (http://www.pnwvhfs.org/photos/2013/full/2013-10-11-conference-05078.jpg)


And note the revolving pizza oven. I haven't seen one of those in decades.


https://www.zomato.com/moses-lake-wa/chicos-pizza-parlor-moses-lake/menu (https://www.zomato.com/moses-lake-wa/chicos-pizza-parlor-moses-lake/menu)


A couple of youtube vids.


The process might as well be Shakeys or Me N Eds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T96Z4OXVLwk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T96Z4OXVLwk)


Just watch them load that baby up! And BTW their cheese blend sounds like Me N Eds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7bYjQaWW9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7bYjQaWW9Q)



I just knew this place had to be connect to Shakeys I just hadn't found it yet. Until I stumbled on this. Which still isn't the real connection I am expecting to find.


http://www.chicospizza.net/about (http://www.chicospizza.net/about)


Love the beer tap pic, so iconic!


Quote
Pop Zornes brought his family to the Pacific Northwest to work as migrant workers picking apples. His son, Mel Zornes stayed in Moses Lake and opened a number of businesses over the years including Mel's Tavern, Cascade Dine and Dance and The Basin Street Inn. Cascade Dine and Dance was purchased from Mel and turned into a Shakey's Pizza.  Shakey’s Pizza was not a thriving business so in an effort to find a better product he started looking at different pizza parlors. In 1958, Mel finally found Chico's Pizza Parlor and said “it's the best he ever tasted”. Chico's was a franchise out of Portland, Oregon and at its peak had California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Hawaii under its belt. Over time the founders decided to get out of the pizza business which leaves only three locations left, Lynwood, California, Seaview, Washington and Moses Lake, Washington.


Edited to show it's a quote
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on November 16, 2016, 02:17:11 PM

".....So Shakey and Ed then set up a kitchen in Shakey's garage and began to experiment with every kind of concoction, using all the ingredients they could think of. Soon they hit on a particularly flavorful blend of 37 different herbs, oils and spices which they immediately labeled their "secret sauce" - long before McDonald's ever classified their hamburger sauce as "secret". With the pizza ingredients now in place, Shakey and Ed each put up $850 and with the promised additional credit and support of the local Lucky Lager Beer distributor, the two young entrepreneurs were ready to go into business."*


I can't imagine trying to use 37 ingredients period. The last sauce I worked on has a something like 13+ and thats not including salt and sugar and it's pretty complex! Awesome "west coast flavor" but man.. weighing out all those ingredients is a "Chore".  :chef:
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on November 16, 2016, 02:30:35 PM
As for Shakeys - I am still interested in *THAT SMELL*. Perhaps Lydia's fermentation secret will reveal new insights. You're killing us now Lydia!


Folks, I'm still working on this. There's "alot" of information to sift through and clean-up, as well as plenty training vids to share as well.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on November 16, 2016, 07:50:00 PM
Those Chicos' are certainly copycats of Shakey's. Burt's book credits Shakey Johnson with coining the term "pizza parlor".
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on November 16, 2016, 08:52:26 PM
Zing


I don't know that this Chicos is even related to El Chicos that was in Sac.





I don't have the book, but I was wondering if you might recall whether or not there is a mention of Shakey actually making pizzas at El Chico's. I read that in an article and assumed it was taken from Burt's book.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on November 16, 2016, 10:47:07 PM
According to the book, Shakey and Ed were doing what we do - watching the cook at El Chico, Aldo, make his pizza. El Chico had some sort of connection to Joe Marty's restaurant, which I guess is still around. Location listed in the book for that time period is inside the Tower Theater complex near 16th and Broadway in Sacramento.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on November 17, 2016, 07:50:44 AM
Zing, thanks so much for checking on that for me. :D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: stevenmhinde on November 30, 2016, 05:12:13 PM
Holy cow! I created this thread back in 2004.  I haven't checked in on it for many years.  I was shocked to see how much discussion has been generated!  So many great contributions to the quest for Shakey's sauce!  And crust!  And all things Shakey's!

Huge thanks to all who have brought it this far!

-Steve
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on December 04, 2016, 05:43:41 AM
Steven, I remember you posting that you wanted the recipe for the sauce used during the mid/late 80's. Of all the recipes posted here, I think you would be most interested in the one Lightmeter posted on page 8 of this thread.

When I first started trying to clone Shakey's pizza, I did a search on the Google and Yahoo search engines. I found all sorts of recipes, though none matched what was on current actual Shakey's slices. I did another search recently and found several recipe websites copied recipes originally posted to this thread!
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: carl333 on December 04, 2016, 06:44:11 PM

Folks, I'm still working on this. There's "alot" of information to sift through and clean-up, as well as plenty training vids to share as well.
Getting close Lydia?
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on December 04, 2016, 10:37:37 PM
Thanks Lydia, glad to see you and zing pop back to up. Stealing a quote here... John Belushi " I'm putting the band back together."  "You'll never get Mad Earnie and fabulous DNA Dan out of them high-payin' gigs."

Looking forward to your reveal!

Dan and I ain't dead yet!   ;)

I haven't had a Shakey's pizza since June of 2014 in Anaheim, but I am hoping to make it back to the one in Oroville, CA in March.  Last time I was there (2010) I spoke to one of the owners.  She was very nice.  She confirmed something I had heard a few days earlier from a Round Table Pizza franchise owner/manager who said they had recently gone to no trans fat dough recipe.  The RT guy said it actually made the dough rise to a greater extent without the fat.  The Shakey's in Oroville still used the old deck ovens and had more of that "smell" of Shakey's than the ones I have been to since then in Anaheim or on Oahu.

I am fascinated by this Chico's Pizza connection and what I have been able to find on the internet since I read the previous posts.  From the looks and sound of things, it appears they were definitely a close cousin to Shakey's, if not a sibling.

As for you, lightmeter: "Oh yeah? Well me and the Lord, we have an understanding." :-D

"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood Blues
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Lydia on December 05, 2016, 09:33:48 PM
Getting close Lydia?


Yes, close but there's a couple of SNAFU's.


Some of it has to do with access. I was intending to provide links but it seems to not be an option any longer. Although I have them, there's also an issue about posting those within the forum.


I was really hoping for feedback from forum members on the sheeting process. I'm also bummed about not being able to share the videos. They're not on youtube and are now password protected.


Overall, it's my opinion that the sheeting method unique to both places is irrelevant (Which I believe Dan has said a few times here and there) and that their similarities are actually more important. 


My feeling is that what we're really needing is the fermentation process, which is pretty cool. The 3 day process is working consistently with a reduced hydration on my RT Dough. Pushing into 4 days gets the parmesan-y cheese like flavors but with texture loss. It kinda reminds me of Better Cheddars.:drool:


So I was trying to rework the info. but if the consensus is that you all would be fine with just my "translation" of the information. I can start posting sooner.
[/size]
Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on December 06, 2016, 01:03:50 PM
First, some old business:

I just found this page from the Chico's in Moses Lake, Washington that gives some history of the chain:

http://heyevent.com/venue/b35m6oormbqzua

--
Edit December 7, 2016
When I clicked on that http://www.chicospizza.net/about link from Lydia's post of November 16, 2016, I found that the domain also expired November 16, 2016 and there is now a domain parking screen there. The archive showed that that page was also posted by the Chico's in Moses Lake, Washington. Back in 2001-2002, that domain was owned by another Chico's at 131 6th Street, San Francisco.
--

All three remaining Chico's have Yelp reviews, with one or more reviews of each noting a similarity to Shakey's pizza. I have not found out who started the Chico's chain in Portland, OR but I did find an old picture of a pizza box with the following addresses on it: 1919 SE 82nd, and 3011 North Lombard, Portland, Oregon.

My thoughts on Lydia's latest thread just above: I have had limited experience with the sheeting process, just using a rolling pin and sometimes a Marcato 6" pasta machine to make a "double wide" skin, which I used a 12" form with to cut out a round piece of dough. Storing and using a commercial sheeter is problematical for me. I have a lot of descriptions of Shakey's sheeting process both from this forum and from the facebook pages of various Shakey's franchisees. When the short-lived Shakey's in American Forge, Utah opened in May, 2011, a local Salt Lake City TV station did a story on them, including showing the sheeting process. That video is long gone from their website, however. On my old computer someplace, I have audio or text of an interview with one of the Shakey's CEO's, in which he described in general terms the Shakey's sheeting process. I have so much stuff now it takes me forever to find anything anymore.

Purchasing and learning expensive desktop publishing software, and renting professional-grade video equipment would entail quite a bit of effort and expense. It may just be more efficient to rewrite the materials as if they were going to be one of the recipes in a cookbook of pizza recipes. There have been many threads here on pizzamaking.com on how to make thin crust dough. Selecting one of these threads as a primer should cut down on the amount of time necessary to rework the information.

The manager of a foodservice cash-and-carry, who used to work as a chef, once told me he was not afraid to give people his recipes. He just didn't tell them the technique! I think we need to know both the technique and the exact ingredients used to replicate the formula in use at a particular time period.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on December 06, 2016, 09:53:05 PM
My feeling is that what we're really needing is the fermentation process, which is pretty cool. The 3 day process is working consistently with a reduced hydration on my RT Dough. Pushing into 4 days gets the parmesan-y cheese like flavors but with texture loss. It kinda reminds me of Better Cheddars.:drool:


So I was trying to rework the info. but if the consensus is that you all would be fine with just my "translation" of the information. I can start posting sooner.
[/size]
Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks


I say: Full steam ahead!!  :-D

Lydia, when you say you've been using a lower hydration of your RT dough recipe with a longer fermentation time, that intrigues me.  I have had great success with your RT dough recipe and I am curious as to what hydration you are using.  Based on previous attempts at a Shakey's dough recipe, my guess is it would be 37-40%.  Am I close?

Also, to Zing's point, the whole sheeting process just doesn't cut it with a rolling pin.  Many of us have tried.  You really need a true sheeter.  But your 3-layered cheater recipe manages to create an excellent facsimile of a sheeted dough, especially for the average home baker.  I would like to give any testing recipe a try with that method.

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: lightmeter on December 10, 2016, 05:14:52 PM
Whoa, the gang is back. Super~! ;D
The video Zing posted is awesome and I can't wait to read the book.
... and thanks Lydia - I look forward to a deep read of your posts over the holiday.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: cdoyle on January 13, 2017, 08:52:33 PM
Re-subscribing:
I really want to taste that pizza sauce I remember as a kid.    Can't wait to see the latest news.

 :pizza:
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jenosmaverick on February 23, 2017, 07:40:13 AM
Heya all!!newbie here and after looking for a sweet red sauce recipe with the search engine i found this one! Shakeys here in the PH can be found in almost any major city around here haha. Sadly the more branches popping up the quality deteriorates. But I still love em and prefer them over Pizza hut. Anyway hows the copy cat recipe going? And the dextrose is it powder? I'm just a newb here never used any chemicals of sorts in any food we made. Hope to learn more from you guys! Thanks :)

Kevin,
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 23, 2017, 11:25:15 PM
Dextrose is a white powder made from corn. It is a simple sugar. It is often sold in health foods stores in the USA.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Pete-zza on February 24, 2017, 08:31:30 AM
Dextrose is a very popular form of sugar for a vast array of applications. It is about 25% less sweet than ordinary table sugar (sucrose), as can be seen in the table at http://owlsoft.com/pdf_docs/WhitePaper/Rel_Sweet.pdf. It is also pure glucose, whereas sucrose is a di-saccharide composed of glucose and fructose. While no doubt there are applications where dextrose is a good choice, the cynical side of me leads me to believe that some food processors use dextrose because many, if not most, people do not know that dextrose is a form of sugar. So, they do not blink when they see it listed in an ingredients statement. From what I have read, dextrose costs much more than an equal weight of table sugar, so I would think that there must be benefits to justify the higher cost of the dextrose.

Peter
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jenosmaverick on February 24, 2017, 09:25:13 AM
thanks for the info zing and pete! Hmmmm so can i substitute sugar instead? I'll be trying this recipe tom. and i might try the red novermber recipe aswell i just don't have a micorwave to do the MAE procedure.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Pete-zza on February 24, 2017, 10:02:45 AM
thanks for the info zing and pete! Hmmmm so can i substitute sugar instead? I'll be trying this recipe tom. and i might try the red novermber recipe aswell i just don't have a micorwave to do the MAE procedure.
Kevin,

Yes, I believe that you can use sugar instead. Just use an amount of sugar that is about 25% more than the dextrose, by weight.

Peter
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jenosmaverick on February 25, 2017, 06:24:23 AM
While not 100% there yet, this is our in-progress recipe for a clone of the bag-in-a-box sauce currently in use at Shakey's:

20 oz (by weight) SuperDolce Super Sweet, Super Heavy Pizza Sauce (Stanislaus Food Products, Beautiful Downtown Modesto, CA)
1/2 teaspoon dried minced onion
1/2 teaspoon basil leaves
1/4 teaspoon ground oregano
1/4 teaspoon garlic powder
4 Tablespoons dextrose
3 Tablespoons Michele Chiarlo  Barbera D'Asti  Le Orme wine
1/8 cup water

The water, minced onion, basil and garlic are mixed in a saucepan and cooked until the dried onion is translucent. After letting the mixture cool, the wine, ground oregano, and dextrose is added and stirred. Finally, the pizza sauce is added to the saucepan and everything is thoroughly mixed. The mixture is then placed in a quart-size reclosable plastic storage bag and left in the refrigerator for two days, being periodically agitated by hand to mix the ingredients.

Did this Shakey's copycat today and it went great! There's really a similarity betwwen the two! Though for me Shakey's here have a more saltier taste than the recipe we made. But then again the Sauce is really good and now will be ny go to Red Sauce! Many thanks to all those who contributed for this recipe :D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jenosmaverick on February 25, 2017, 06:34:39 AM
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/425x319q90/922/lgIYzp.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/239x319q50/924/bTeDx4.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/239x319q90/922/QGq9vG.jpg

Pics of the pizza we made. The crust still needs abit of adjustment need to lower our yeast and salt contents and it's good to go :D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: nsxbill on February 25, 2017, 09:19:31 PM
Here's a clone from BigOven
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jenosmaverick on February 26, 2017, 03:49:58 AM
Forgot to ask how long is the lifspan of the sauce? Wouldn't it be shorter since the sauce wasn't cooked? And is it better at the chiller or freezer? Thanks!

Kevin,
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on March 21, 2017, 03:56:33 PM
Well, as I stated in a post last year, I made a trip to Oroville, CA recently (March 12, 2017) and had some Shakey's pizza for the first time in almost 3 years.  This is my third time dining at this Shakey's, and of the 3 that I have visited in the last decade (this one, Anaheim, and Hawaii), this is my favorite.  Not only is the architecture and decor more reminiscent of the old-style Shakey's Ye Old Public House, they still use the original deck ovens to cook their pizzas, not the new conveyor ovens that every chain is so in love with. 

I tried to pay particular attention to the sauce flavor profile.  What stuck out for me were 3 things: garlic, black pepper, and red pepper.  The pizzas on this visit seemed sweeter than what I remembered from my last excursions, but I think that was coming more from the crust than the sauce.  However, I still think they probably use a fair amount of sugar or corn syrup in the current sauce.  As for red wine, I seriously doubt that is or ever was an ingredient.  Maybe there are some flavor notes that can be mimicked by using red wine in a home-made cheater's sauce, like  using semolina in a Chicago deep-dish dough to mimic certain characteristics of those recipes.  At any rate, I have never detected anything that would suggest a red wine flavor (and I doubt Shakey's would have let high school and college kids handle wine).

-ME
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Pete-zza on March 21, 2017, 05:01:12 PM
Enlarged photos of Shakey's pizzas.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on March 22, 2017, 01:27:41 PM
Enlarged photos of Shakey's pizzas.

Thanks Pete-zza!  ;D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: jenosmaverick on March 23, 2017, 09:47:32 AM
woah nice pics!! wish they served that kind of pizza here aswell haha.. the topping are huge  :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: cynara on June 20, 2017, 05:45:04 PM
Hi-- I'm new here, but old in real life. Shakey's was the first (restaurant) pizza I ever tasted. Back in late 60s/early 70s. I also worked there in the late 70s. I'm not going to be much help, I'm sure, but I do remember seeing huge cans of pizza sauce in the storeroom, labeled Hunts (not 100% sure--it could have been Heinz). Thing is, they were old sauces that were left over. They were labeled with the company's name, but under that they said "Shakey's Pizza Sauce #..." I'm pretty sure there was a #54 and maybe something in the 70s. The sauce changed many times over the years, but who knows--maybe the Hunts or Heinz company would be able to help.

Btw, the sauce I remember was sweeter--like a tomato paste-type sweet. Some of the sauces I've seen on this site and others kind of hit the mark for me.

What I've never come close to was the sauce for their Hero Sandwich--wow--every night after work, one came home with me, but not for long... :P
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Polka on July 19, 2017, 08:41:40 PM
Howdy all

I would like to add my two cents to this thread, if I may. 

I too have been looking for a great sauce that reeks of Shakey's.  I know that while making some sauce, I dropped some spice containers out of the rack.  While putting them away, the chili powder can had opened slightly--McCormicks.  The fragrance of this chili powder with the sauce on the counter led me to an "A Ha" moment, and so I added a bit, and it was certainly getting me close to what I remember. 

I looked at the container, and it recommended chili powder for spaghetti sauce.  I also know that fragrance is half of our tasting as smell and taste are closely related.

What do you think?  I like it when I add it to my sauce, about 1/2 tsp per 24 oz can of Hunts Traditional Spaghetti sauce.

Sure seems to give it that zing someone was talking about in the past.

Hope that I helped get closer to our goal.
Take care
Rex,
aka Polka
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: refdaddy on December 23, 2017, 10:37:40 PM
I managed a Shakey's that my brother owned from 1975 to 1978 in the suburbs of Washington, DC.  In spite of my addled memory, I distinctly remember the Shakey's brand bagged pizza sauce dry mix contained cracked/coarsely ground mustard seeds. 

That may be the secret 'tang' you have all been seeking.  Our sauce recipe was based on tomato paste and we scraped those #10 cans clean.  Waste not, want not!

Other tidbits:
Thin pizza crust was made with all purpose flour.  The Shakey's add-in was bromated and included barley malt and several dough conditioners.  We used a solid shortening in both thin crust and thick crust dough recipes.
Thick crust was mostly bread flour with maybe 1/3 ap flour.

I would die for the spice mix for both the beef topping and sausage topping.  We added a Shakey's brand spice mix to freshly ground beef and frozen pork butt strips run through the grinder attachment of our Hobart machine.  Pork was turned 2-3 times a day in the refrigerated bus pans till it was ready to serve after 24-48 hours.  Beef was ready after mixing and did not require any wait time.

Hope you guys and gals find the magic bullet to recreate Shakey's pizza. 

Even though I swore off pizza for years after leaving Shakey's, I do enjoy a good homemade pie.  I never fail to add a liberal dose of yellow mustard and some ground mustard seeds to my pizza sauce.  Gets raves all around.

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on December 24, 2017, 11:02:27 PM
Welcome, Refdaddy.

Thank you for your recollections. This is useful for people trying to clone the sauce used in that time period.

I myself am trying to duplicate the pizza currently served in corporate (Jacmar) owned locations in California. Someone earlier had posted here that they also had access to the spice packets back then and that it contained mustard. I have washed both sauce samples and baked sauce taken off slices brought back to me from California. I never did find any cracked or whole mustard seeds. After reading the first report of mustard in the sauce, I bought some Colman's mustard powder in a supermarket and added it to my sauce clone. If Shakey's is now adding ground herbs and spices to their bagged sauce-in-a-box, it can't be found by washing sauce samples. I had to try adding mustard powder and observing results, the only (affordable) way to check for ground herbs and spices. However, using various percentages of mustard powder in my sauce, it did not make the sauce taste any closer to the genuine sauce and pizza samples I had. Reading all these posts leads people to conclude the recipes changed over the years.

Everything I have read points to Shakey's now buying factory made ground beef and sausage topping. Over the past seven years, I have found different brands of pepperoni on the samples brought back to me from California, same with different brands of the crushed red pepper and grated parmesan packets handed out with whole pies. I guess if Jacmar's foodservice division is out of a particular brand, they will substitute something else. I myself would love to try make fresh ground beef topping and sausage from those spice mixtures.

The biggest stumbling block for me right now is the cheese. We have just repeated our comparison test between  the cheese currently used on Golden Corral's buffet pizza and current California Shakey's pizza, and the match is the closest we have found. Golden Corral uses frozen Leprino QLC pizza cheese.

Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on December 25, 2017, 11:59:07 AM
In his introductory post, Refdaddy indicated the pizza parlor he managed was in Woodbridge, VA. That reminded me of an interesting web page I found years ago by a gentleman named Peter Hirschberg. On it, he published full-size actual photos taken from a brochure of the interior of a typical Shakey's from back in the day. Seeing those photos really brought back memories:

https://www.peterhirschberg.com/toys/shakeys/index.htm

As an aside, he also talked about frequenting the Shakey's in Woodbridge, VA. He included photos from about 10 years ago. Current Google street views show the building is now gone, and the sign is hidden in the brush. If you Google 14240 Jefferson Davis Hwy Woodbridge, Virginia, you will find lots of realtor ads trying to sell that plot and the one next to it for $1.9 million dollars.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on January 17, 2018, 02:16:16 PM
I thought this might be an appropriate place to post a link to an essay on Shakey's Pizza that was published in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette on December 14th, 2010. I sometimes have to ask myself if I am trying to duplicate the pizza or just to relive the memories:

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2010/dec/14/pizza-it-was-cool/?print

As author Kane Webb sums up,

"So what did Shakey’s pizza taste like? How would it have fared in Sync’s pizza contest, which featured more than 40 pizza places in Central Arkansas?

Heck if I know. And I don't want to know. I'd rather savor my memories than any slice of pepperoni.

But I do know this: It would have been fun.

And loud."
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Mad_Ernie on January 17, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
Thanks, Zing.  That was a nice article.  I know how Kane Webb felt about Shakey's because it pretty darn close to how have felt.  It was not just about the pizza, it's about the memories.  The pizza was just an excuse, a catalyst, that accentuated a gathering of family and friends.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: landonspop on February 14, 2019, 01:04:12 AM
After reading many posts here, I have concluded that maybe, before Shakey's got strict with their franchisees, the owners added their own flavorings. Or, like many have said, they changed throughout the years, maybe to cut costs with replacements.

I ate there for many birthdays in the early 70's as a child. Then it was the piano player and party that was remembered. Then I found one in Beloit, WI. Wisconsin was still 18 to drink when IL was 21. Beloit was the weekend road trip senior year. Got to know the manager, but never thought to ask for recipes, as I thought they were going to be there forever.

I remember the cheddar cheese change and refused to eat it after that. I told the manager and he would make me pizza using just mozzarella. I boycotted Pizza Hut for this same reason. Cheddar just doesn't belong on pizza.

As much as I liked the pizza, my buddies and I loved the fried chicken and especially the MoJo's. I would be happy with the MoJo recipe. They were battered fried potato slices. A couple of pitchers of Old Style or Special Export got us ready for the night clubs.

I will keep watching this until the recipe is figured out.  ;D
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: Zing on February 16, 2019, 12:22:08 AM
I don't think we will ever be able  to determine the one recipe, for the reasons you just gave.     

It should be possible to clone the sauce recipe of a currently open store.
There is always the possibility that someone discovers the recipe of the spice packets sent to the stores to be mixed with canned tomato products.
Title: Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
Post by: pizzaChops on June 12, 2020, 10:36:32 PM
I have loved reading this Shakey's thread so much I just want it to keep going.  Has anyone figured it out completely?  I miss listening to the player piano there in the 80s.  Shakey's Bunch of Lunch!