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Author Topic: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures  (Read 72477 times)

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Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1140 on: November 13, 2017, 10:42:15 PM »
Well after a good week starting at page 1 I finally got to page 31 and found the recipe and methodology there.  So I did my utmost best to follow it.  Thanks for all your efforts.  I will report back and what luck I have with the Page 31 Recipe....
Awesome! I can't wait to hear and see how it comes out for you.  8) 

The method on page 31 was great when it worked, but has absolutely no margin for error. The one on page 54 is "Roy-proof", more versatile and makes a much better NY Street Slice style crust.   

Offline Fiorot

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1141 on: November 13, 2017, 11:10:58 PM »
Awesome! I can't wait to hear and see how it comes out for you.  8) 

The method on page 31 was great when it worked, but has absolutely no margin for error. The one on page 54 is "Roy-proof", more versatile and makes a much better NY Street Slice style crust.
Well Roy when I get to page 54 I will try that.   What fun this is and thanks again for your expertise but also your writing skills are entertaining too.

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1142 on: November 14, 2017, 11:31:25 AM »
Well Roy when I get to page 54 I will try that.   What fun this is and thanks again for your expertise but also your writing skills are entertaining too.
Thank you for the very kind words. I think I would readily substitute stubborn pig-headedness in the place of expertise.  :-D 

It is indeed a good bit of fun, though I did let things get to me for too long earlier in the year.  :-[   Getting to page 54's results from page 31's results was quite a trip. A balancing act and vast amounts of luck in addition to fun and good eats. 

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1143 on: November 14, 2017, 01:16:18 PM »
This is a day-2 bake from the next batch of the low Litner LDMP. This time 50%. I had a similar set of temps to work with except I have gotten my garage fridge up to 35.5F. The one other adjustment I made was the post-kneading BF was done at RT instead of fridge. These  two adjustments gave me better early development and allowed me to resume my bake-day protocol. Actually, I hedged my bet a little bit and added 15 minutes to the warm up, though I probably should not have.

The stretch was closer to normal. Nice to know I have that tighter stretch in my bag of tricks, though. I'll fiddle with some on purpose and see where it goes from there, maybe after I figure out the little bit of rim browning thing I'm chasing.

The bake itself was done at a higher temp, probably 525F - 530F, which was too much for my intentions of a 15" street style. It ended up with a fairly thick and crunchy bottom crisp layer. Toasted malt has it's merits, though, and it was still much nom nom. It did not win the battle of the browning, though there were some spotty successes. I may have to cave and send a it more air out to the rim, but that is last resort. I still have some room to go with this new malt, though, as long as I don't launch near 525F and expect a near 10-minute bake to not get too browned on the bottom.

Speaking of outer rims, my whole strategy when forming them is to not form them. I simply do not tough the outer edge and press a bit of air out there and hope it's enough to keep the juices off the stone. Perhaps I should actually form them? 

Oh well, today's pics.

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1144 on: November 16, 2017, 05:53:48 PM »
And now for some good 'ol family fun.

What we have here are my Son's first 3 pies. He's got a presentation at skool and he chose pizza. He's a Semester away from finishing his 2-year EMT (Medic) degree, which was a 3 year thing for him as he took all his non-curriculum requirements the year before.  So why a presentation on pizza? No clue, but what the heck, right?

Anyhow, it's in either 2 or 3 weeks. He's going to load up my car (bigger than his) with all my stuff and bring it to skool and start the oven up a couple hours before he is to do his thing. He's going to give a bit of a talk and then do the pie(s). I knew of this last week and have been thinking about how best to give him launching practice and to hedge my bets that he would not ruin my stone. I decided that I would give him a short term dough on the strong side with lots of proofing for the first one. I also decided I would show and have him do a sizable outer rim on the first one in hopes it would increase chances of toppings staying on.

He did very well on the launch practice. On to the pie making, I showed him th first little bit of each step and had him finish, guiding and advising along the way. He did OK. It's the cheese pie, which I think there are 3 slices in the pic below. I just stood back and watched for the second pie, offering bits of guidance as needed. I don't think I touched it. I had him build the rim up a little less. The only goof was averted as I caught him right before the first spoon of sauce was about to hit the skin. He had not moved the skin to the peel yet. After that, he did fine and I watched him from a distance as he operated the launch with ease.

As Dads will do, I threw him in with both feet for the 3rd. I gave him the dough container and told him to have at it and took the dogs out back to play fetch. I wish the dogs would let me throw the ball for once, but that's a topic for another day.  ;D  Anyhow, after a while, I figured I would see him waltz out onto the deck with pie in hand. It didn't happen. He can be deliberate. I wonder where that comes from.   ::)   I go inside and he's just putting the last few pepperoni on. Looks pretty good, but also looked to be NOT on my peel. As luck would have it, I was having him us my dough board as that's what he would use at school. He got bummed really quick when I pointed out the goof. BUT, having done it before myself, I taught him how to launch a pie from a dough board to a peel. He was glad to know it had been done in our house before and finished the rest.

The final pie did not have great spring. part of it was extra time with sauce on it due to the extra time on the board. The other part was because I forgot to turn the oven up after he took the previous pie out. doh!!!  I remembered for the 2nd one. I even asked Mike Essen what he did with his oven for multi-bake days, what, yesterday? No harm, no foul. Too full anyhow. I ended up putting the last 6 of those slices on the screen and onto the cooling stone for 5 minutes, which helped.

And so it went all in all very well. His first everything with pizza making and he did alright. My stone is non the worse and he's got more confidence. Next week we practice again.  :chef:

More pics, too. Battery bit the dust.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 05:56:20 PM by rparker »

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Offline quietdesperation

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1145 on: November 17, 2017, 10:18:38 PM »
great stuff roy, congrats to your son (and you) on those first efforts!
"Pizza is a lot like sex. When it's good, it's really good. When it's bad, it's still pretty good." - Woody Allen

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1146 on: November 18, 2017, 09:34:57 PM »
great stuff roy, congrats to your son (and you) on those first efforts!
Thanks, QD!

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1147 on: November 20, 2017, 07:42:09 AM »
Man your pies rock.  Now make them with a strong fist and a same day dough like Frank Gaquinto.  Hit that dough, like you mean it with passion.
So, yesterday I made toast with pizza toppings on it. It was not intentional. To make matters worse, I baked a thicker pie, .093tf, with 389g cheese and 260g of sauce. My cheese/sauce boil thing did not do well, falling shy of the good flavor producing activity I require. This was on a 26-hour dough, which has been doing well for me. I am missing my mark on some of the heavier pies, and doing it with the same results. Toast bottom, light tops and under-done (to preference) cheese/sauce melge.

One common thread is the airiness in the bottom crust. You've mentioned quick little notes here and there, similar to above, about hitting it with some force. Slapping it while it's on the bench is that I assume you mean. I've done this with some force as late as this past summer and had some tough crust. Not good chew, but tough. There's a difference.

I will not give up my short term CF's. You've described that certain nutty flavor. I've called it "wheaty" before. A minimum short term CF helps me get this whereas before it took 4 or more days. One day isn't ideal, but at least it's not bland. Regardless of all that, I know that the longer this is in the fridge, the more liquid byproduct I will have to deal with in addition to the weakening gluten structure allows for more unwanted lift. Older doughs I can just go thinner and not worry about it so much.

All of that sort of leaves me in an iffy situation for my 1-2 day bakes. This is why I would like to hear your thoughts, strategies and adjustment points when it comes to degassing these things. If you only know from the short term, RT dough, that's good enough to start with. Any suspicions how to adjust for the next day dough is welcome.

This is an open question to anyone I guess. I've not been able to piece together any sort of consistent strategy with my degassing efforts.

Thanks in advance,

Roy

Offline jvp123

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1148 on: November 22, 2017, 05:05:18 PM »
Here's the next day bake from the really tough to chew batch. I had a couple thoughts about rescuing this with some warmth to loosen the gluten up some and posted a thread. Hermit and Mike offered a couple of thoughts and away I went.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=49725.0

So, this one was the biggest I've done to date. Just like the last one that was the biggest to date, I slammed it into the back oven wall.  :-[ :-[ 

The salvage turned out great. The crumb looked bigger than I would want it, but was soft and chewy enough to not matter. As I said in the other thread, it was easily the best IDY or ADY effort I've done.

Taste was incredible. I hit that special little combination of CF and LDMP. The sauce was my normal recipe except I went with 6-in-1's instead of 7/11's. 327g of cheese broken into 150g Grande PSLM, 100g Saputo Gold, 57g BH Fresh Moz and 20g of Cabot Extra Sharp cheddar. Normal food service edition of Hormel Pepperoni and some sausage they have at RD that begins with a "D" that is just scrumptious on a pizza. 552g dough, 17-inches at .086TF. I ate half the stupid thing and am in pain.

(mods - feel free to add that thread to this one if you want. I would not have mad a new thread except I got way behind on time. I didn't mean to clutter up the board.)

Roy, do you get your (white?) cheddar at RD?  I'm looking for a source to buy larger quantities. 
Jeff

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1149 on: November 23, 2017, 12:41:32 AM »
Roy, do you get your (white?) cheddar at RD?  I'm looking for a source to buy larger quantities. 
Jeff, I get the 2lb blocks, approximate weight, at BJ's. Their private label extra super aged sharp is pretty good, actually. I'm not sure what all RD sells for Cheddar. I got some private label James Farms to try. It's slowly getting used for other things these days. Mac & Cheese, etc.

Roy

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Offline norma427

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1150 on: November 23, 2017, 06:03:30 AM »

I got some private label James Farms to try. It's slowly getting used for other things these days. Mac & Cheese, etc.

Roy

Roy,

The Jack's Farm White Sharp cheddar purchased at Rest. Depot was very good mixed with the regular cheddar used at market along with Saputo whole milk mozzarella.  Posted a photo of the Jack's Farm white sharp cheddar along with the other cheeses at Reply 3203 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30641.msg496013#msg496013

Norma

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1151 on: November 23, 2017, 12:36:39 PM »
Roy,

The Jack's Farm White Sharp cheddar purchased at Rest. Depot was very good mixed with the regular cheddar used at market along with Saputo whole milk mozzarella.  Posted a photo of the Jack's Farm white sharp cheddar along with the other cheeses at Reply 3203 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30641.msg496013#msg496013

Norma
Thanks, Norma. I did do a significant portion of a 535F-ish bake using the James Farms cheddar, but I do not recall what I felt about it. I may try again now that my temp ranges and oven has changed. I was surprised to see nice comments about the Saputo Mozzeria. I did not like the one I got. I do not specifically recall which exact product it was.

I've been meaning to ask you. I looked in your thread and did not see it. Have you ever used lactose "powder" as a browning agent or flavor enhancer? I got some this week and mixed a batch yesterday. I think I try the first bake tomorrow. The reason I got it was because it was not fermentable, or whatever the term is when yeast will not use it. I replaced half the LDMP (low litner), but mixed in with sugar and dissolved instead of adding dry to the flour. 

Roy

Offline stamina888

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1152 on: November 23, 2017, 10:02:34 PM »
the pics here look excellent and much like the many slices i've had in ny. 

however one thing many of us (including myself for sure) can't get down to perfection is how to make the dough floppy enough (like Dumbo ears) so that the pizza is soft/chew and can bend with ease (while still having good structure).

how would i improve upon that

Offline norma427

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1153 on: November 24, 2017, 07:26:47 AM »

I've been meaning to ask you. I looked in your thread and did not see it. Have you ever used lactose "powder" as a browning agent or flavor enhancer? I got some this week and mixed a batch yesterday. I think I try the first bake tomorrow. The reason I got it was because it was not fermentable, or whatever the term is when yeast will not use it. I replaced half the LDMP (low litner), but mixed in with sugar and dissolved instead of adding dry to the flour. 

Roy

Roy,

Can't recall if I ever tried lactose powder, but did want to try dried dairy whey.  You can see what Peter had to say about dried dairy whey being the best know for its ability to contribute to crust coloration and also the “neat chart” he referenced for lactose content of many milk products at Reply 205 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12173.msg120403#msg120403

The “neat chart” reference link.

http://www.stevecarper.com/li/list_of_lactose_percentages.htm

For a reference what Peter told me about lactose see Reply 619

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg159012#msg159012

Norma

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1154 on: November 24, 2017, 09:46:54 AM »
Roy,

Can't recall if I ever tried lactose powder, but did want to try dried dairy whey.  You can see what Peter had to say about dried dairy whey being the best know for its ability to contribute to crust coloration and also the “neat chart” he referenced for lactose content of many milk products at Reply 205 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12173.msg120403#msg120403

The “neat chart” reference link.

http://www.stevecarper.com/li/list_of_lactose_percentages.htm

For a reference what Peter told me about lactose see Reply 619

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg159012#msg159012

Norma
Thanks for the links, Norma. Lots of good little tidbits in articles from the past.

I had been looking at this article posted by Peter from 8 years ago when I decided to try it.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8902.msg77167#msg77167

Launch in 2 hours.

Roy

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Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1155 on: November 24, 2017, 10:00:54 AM »
the pics here look excellent and much like the many slices i've had in ny. 

however one thing many of us (including myself for sure) can't get down to perfection is how to make the dough floppy enough (like Dumbo ears) so that the pizza is soft/chew and can bend with ease (while still having good structure).

how would i improve upon that
Stamina888, thanks for the kind words.  8)

Do you mean the big, floppy thin slices, like the .072tf or below that have gotten so popular all over.

I know the dough I would need for it is available. My oven management is the bigger challenge, and most of that may simply be my being stubborn. My refusal to incorporate a screen into the workflow is becoming more and more silly. Probably will try that next week. Basically, my top heat is not very good and my method to counter is not enough or consistent enough.

Roy

Offline norma427

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1156 on: November 24, 2017, 11:28:28 AM »

I had been looking at this article posted by Peter from 8 years ago when I decided to try it.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8902.msg77167#msg77167

Launch in 2 hours.

Roy

Best of luck on your experiment!  :)

Norma

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1157 on: November 24, 2017, 02:49:01 PM »
Best of luck on your experiment!  :)

Norma
Thanks, Norma. It's very obvious now that I need to manage the bake better on bigger pies, as in more faster on top and less and slower on bottom. I'm reverting to standard regimen and formula and focusing on my oven more before diving back into various browning elements.

There will likely be some positive comments on the Lactose, but anything now is premature. Same for the low Litner LDMP from NY Bakers. It's not the flavor I want at higher amounts, but lower amounts and the conditioning effects I'm seeing during the mix and knead process are impressive. Much more on all that after I solve the large pie and oven even baking issues.

Roy

Offline rparker

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1158 on: December 05, 2017, 12:55:58 PM »
Proud Daddy time!

My Son had his 'how to bake NY Style pizza' presentation at EMT(Medic) skool yesterday and it went very well by all accounts. It was his third time baking pizza and his first without dear old dad looking over his shoulder. We did have 3 practice sessions consisting of 7 pies total in preparation for this. Each somewhere between 15 and 15-1/2".

I sent him in with the three 2-day old dough balls, figuring on him baking medium-thin crusts around .085tf. 415g each about 15 to 15-1/2 inches. I sent in 260g moz and 155g sauce for each pie along with the oil drizzler and some granulated garlic. I prepped the 7/11's the night before and mixed the sauce at 6:30AM. He said it was still good at 11:00AM. Good to know. I don't like my sauce after it's set overnight, so it's nice to know I can ease my 2-3 hour restrictions.

He and a classmate/friend brought my oven and most of the rest of my pizza gear. Kind of a sad moment, but it all came back late in the day. He said he got several marriage proposals in addition to the standard issue "best pizza ever" type of  commentary. It was eagerly anticipated as 1/3rd of the class has been telling the others about it for a while.

One of his classmates promised me some pics sooner than later, but these kids all work 20-25 hour work weeks on top of skool, making free time a commodity. I'll make her send me some before she gets any more pizza here.   >:D   

Happy times!!!

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: rparker's NY Style Mis-adventures
« Reply #1159 on: December 05, 2017, 01:06:09 PM »
Great story. Glad the presentation went well.

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