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Author Topic: another cold fermented sour dough experiment  (Read 321 times)

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Offline fazzari

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another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« on: November 11, 2017, 12:50:45 PM »
I am fan of cold fermentation simply because of the flexibility it gives me for planning a bake.  To be able to introduce sourdough in any way would be a huge help to flavor.  In the past, I've experimented with adding cold starter in high percentages to my dough, and it comes out just fine.  This time I will incorporate full strength, recently fed room temperature starter and see what happens. 
The recipe I'm using is as follows:

flour  100   all trumps
water   62
yeast     .05
oil        2
salt       2.5

The sour dough (100% hydration) will make up 33% of the dough weight.  I am adding the smallest amount of yeast, because I need a starting point.

To the starter I add my other ingredients adjusted for the ingredients in the starter.  The dough is mixed about 5 minutes until it clears the sides of the bowl.  It is then placed on an unoiled plate, where it is stretch and folded twice in one hour.  The dough is then wrapped in a plastic bag, where it is fermented in the fridge, unscales and unballed.

By the way, in this month's Pizza Today, is an interesting article on preferments....it seems John Arena makes a dough very similar to what I'm experimenting on:
https://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/our-experts/knead-know-starting-starters/

My first dough was scaled and balled from the bulk dough about 32 hours after initial refrigeration...it was refrigerated for another 10 hours and then was taken out to warm up for 4 hours.  It was then baked

John




Offline TXCraig1

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 01:21:51 PM »
Nice looking crumb!
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 04:21:29 PM »
Ditto! Not much not to like there!
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Dangerous Salumi

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 06:54:17 PM »
Yum!
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

Offline fazzari

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 02:23:25 AM »
Thanks all!   The second dough was scaled and balled from the bulk dough which had been fermenting in the fridge for 44 hours.  It was then refrigerated for another 13 hours, taken out to warm up for 3 hours and baked.  Another excellent pizza.  Good flavor, good crumb, but an absolutely excellent bottom, with the eggshell thin crisp tender crust.

John


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Offline fazzari

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 01:41:13 AM »
My last dough of this batch was balled from the dough which sat in refrigeration for 68 hours, it was then refrigerated another 13 hours, and then taken out to warm for 3 hours prior to bake.  This dough is excellent to work with, tastes great and has as good a texture as I've ever had as far as crisp tenderness.

john


Offline hotsawce

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 10:52:12 AM »
33% of the total dough weight equates to what in flour weight? I, too, am pushing to see how much starter I can include for flavor before it adversely affects the dough.

Make sure you keep tabs on your inoculation percentage for the starter!

I am fan of cold fermentation simply because of the flexibility it gives me for planning a bake.  To be able to introduce sourdough in any way would be a huge help to flavor.  In the past, I've experimented with adding cold starter in high percentages to my dough, and it comes out just fine.  This time I will incorporate full strength, recently fed room temperature starter and see what happens. 
The recipe I'm using is as follows:

flour  100   all trumps
water   62
yeast     .05
oil        2
salt       2.5

The sour dough (100% hydration) will make up 33% of the dough weight.  I am adding the smallest amount of yeast, because I need a starting point.

To the starter I add my other ingredients adjusted for the ingredients in the starter.  The dough is mixed about 5 minutes until it clears the sides of the bowl.  It is then placed on an unoiled plate, where it is stretch and folded twice in one hour.  The dough is then wrapped in a plastic bag, where it is fermented in the fridge, unscales and unballed.

By the way, in this month's Pizza Today, is an interesting article on preferments....it seems John Arena makes a dough very similar to what I'm experimenting on:
https://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/our-experts/knead-know-starting-starters/

My first dough was scaled and balled from the bulk dough about 32 hours after initial refrigeration...it was refrigerated for another 10 hours and then was taken out to warm up for 4 hours.  It was then baked

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 12:32:01 PM »
This is the recipe I used for this particular exercise:

Total Formula:
Flour (100%):    510.5 g  |  18.01 oz | 1.13 lbs
Water (62%):    316.51 g  |  11.16 oz | 0.7 lbs
Salt (2.5%):    12.76 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.29 tsp | 0.76 tbsp
IDY (.10%):    0.51 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
Oil (2%):    10.21 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.27 tsp | 0.76 tbsp
Total (166.6%):   850.5 g | 30 oz | 1.88 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   283.5 g | 10 oz | 0.63 lbs

Preferment:
Flour:    140.33 g | 4.95 oz | 0.31 lbs
Water:    140.33 g | 4.95 oz | 0.31 lbs
Total:    280.67 g | 9.9 oz | 0.62 lbs

Final Dough:
Flour:    370.17 g | 13.06 oz | 0.82 lbs
Water:    176.18 g | 6.21 oz | 0.39 lbs
Salt:    12.76 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.29 tsp | 0.76 tbsp
IDY:    0.51 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
Preferment:    280.67 g | 9.9 oz | 0.62 lbs
Oil:    10.21 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.27 tsp | 0.76 tbsp
Total:    850.5 g | 30 oz | 1.88 lbs  | TF = N/A

John

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 12:02:02 AM »
Nice work, John!


A couple of questions. The formula in the initial post mentions .05 IDY, but in total formula in last post, it describes .1%.


You note you're using recently fed starter. Could you describe the process for preparing and fermenting your preferment? Also, what' the inoculation % of mother starter?  And is it  percent of preferment flour or total preferment weight?


Thanks!

Offline fazzari

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 11:25:15 PM »
I used .10% yeast for the dough calculator, which is about .02 ounces of yeast, but my scale goes in increments of .05,  so, I kind had to guess at this one...either way, very, very small amount of yeast.
I take my sourdough out of the fridge about 3 days before use (if it's been in there awhile), and feed equal parts of water and flour about every 8 hours.  By the third day, it's jumping out of my container.  It is after it has risen very quickly, that I take what I want to make dough.  I hope that answers your question....?

John

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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: another cold fermented sour dough experiment
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 10:19:02 AM »
Thanks John, yes that's great.

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