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Offline 9slicePie

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Smoke problem
« on: November 20, 2022, 05:40:12 PM »
When making Sicilian/Grandma style pan pizza, almost ALWAYS the kitchen/apartment gets filled with smoke.

The culprit is the cheese making contact with the sides/base of the pan.

Let me elaborate a little before you guys give your input.

I spread the dough on the pan, put mozarella slices on, then sauce, then pieces of fresh mozarella on top. It seems to me that when the pizza is baking in the oven, the expanding/rising dough is “pushing” the cheeses “out and away” towards the edges of the pan.  This, combined with the corners of the dough “pulling away” from the corners of the pan, is causing the cheeses to make contact with the pan and essentially burning the cheeses, which in turn, causes a white smoke EVERYWHERE.   

You may say, “Don’t put the cheese too close to the edge of the dough”.  But if I do that, then there is too much of a “barren”/exposed crust layer with no cheese or sauce. 

The only way I seem to be able to prevent this is if I take out the pan from the oven after a certain while and push the cheeses away from the edges with a knife.  But that’s an extra step to do which I’d like to eliminate. 

OCCASIONALLY, I DON’T get the smoking happening; but I’d like to know how to avoid it.

Offline Ovenray

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2022, 05:47:16 PM »
Is it an idea to use parchment paper between the sides of the pan and the dough, to prevent direct contact between the cheese and the pan once it rises?
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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2022, 06:07:04 PM »
Is it an idea to use parchment paper between the sides of the pan and the dough, to prevent direct contact between the cheese and the pan once it rises?

Hmmm. Never thought of trying that.  But I have 2 hesitations about doing that:

1) Again, that’s an extra step (I try to minimize the # of steps whenever possible).   Having said that, I am not totally averse to possibly trying it because this smoke issue is pretty significant.

2) I also coat the bottom of the pan with olive oil which leads to a little bit of frying of the undercrust (which is important for this pizza).   If I put parchment paper, will it interefere/negatively affect that sought-after frying effect?

Offline Ovenray

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2022, 07:04:50 PM »
Hmmm. Never thought of trying that.  But I have 2 hesitations about doing that:

1) Again, that’s an extra step (I try to minimize the # of steps whenever possible).   Having said that, I am not totally averse to possibly trying it because this smoke issue is pretty significant.

2) I also coat the bottom of the pan with olive oil which leads to a little bit of frying of the undercrust (which is important for this pizza).   If I put parchment paper, will it interefere/negatively affect that sought-after frying effect?

1) It might be unavoidable and isnt too much trouble allthough it would have been better if it wasnt necessary at all I agree.

2) It probably isnt necessary to put any parchment paper under the crust, only to cut some strips for the sides of the pan. Once the side of the pan is (minimally) coated with oil those will adhere to the sides easily. That's another step I guess but a requirement just like the parchment paper itself.
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Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2022, 07:08:22 PM »
Hmmm. Never thought of trying that.  But I have 2 hesitations about doing that:

1) Again, that’s an extra step (I try to minimize the # of steps whenever possible).   Having said that, I am not totally averse to possibly trying it because this smoke issue is pretty significant.

2) I also coat the bottom of the pan with olive oil which leads to a little bit of frying of the undercrust (which is important for this pizza).   If I put parchment paper, will it interefere/negatively affect that sought-after frying effect?

2: There's a tik-tok video of some lady frying chicken in a pan lined with parchment paper, so I'm gonna say no?

Another idea is trying an oil with a higher smoke point maybe? Rice bran oil may be the king, though it's not on this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Smoke_point_of_cooking_oils
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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2022, 10:17:29 PM »
Thanks for the responses, guys.


2: There's a tik-tok video of some lady frying chicken in a pan lined with parchment paper, so I'm gonna say no?

Another idea is trying an oil with a higher smoke point maybe? Rice bran oil may be the king, though it's not on this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Smoke_point_of_cooking_oils

I hear what you’re saying about the smoke point of oils but, I think this is more of an issue of the cheeses making contact with the hot pan.

Offline Ovenray

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2022, 04:26:50 AM »
2: There's a tik-tok video of some lady frying chicken in a pan lined with parchment paper, so I'm gonna say no?

So what happens?
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Offline Papa T

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2022, 02:19:51 PM »
When making Sicilian/Grandma style pan pizza, almost ALWAYS the kitchen/apartment gets filled with smoke.

At what temperature are you baking? I've never had an issue with smoking and I've literally made hundreds of Sicilian and grandma pizzas in cake pans, quarter and half sheet pans, and Lloyd pans. The cheese will spill over and char, especially if you intend for it to do so like when making Detroit style, but I've never had it smoke. I bake those kind of pizzas at 450-475F.
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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2022, 03:13:42 PM »
At what temperature are you baking? I've never had an issue with smoking and I've literally made hundreds of Sicilian and grandma pizzas in cake pans, quarter and half sheet pans, and Lloyd pans. The cheese will spill over and char, especially if you intend for it to do so like when making Detroit style, but I've never had it smoke. I bake those kind of pizzas at 450-475F.

520 or 525 F,, I forgot which one the highest setting is in my oven.   But as I said, I've baked these pizzas with NO smoke, too.   Just trying to pinpoint how I can consciously/knowingly avoid it.

Offline gcpizza

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2022, 03:59:30 PM »
How much of this post of yours from last year is still relevant to your current technique/workflow?

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=70169.msg674326#msg674326

If you're still using 1/2 cup of oil at those temperatures,  that's your problem right there.  In fact back then I couldn't believe that you hadn't set your oven on fire. And if you're using EVOO, you're making the problem even worse.  You shouldn't need more than 1/4 cup or less of REFINED olive oil and a bake temperature of 450-475° F. If you're still using 525° F and that much oil,  the oil is just bubbling out of the pan and hitting the hot oven surfaces causing smoke and a fire hazard.  Cheese contacting the pan has nothing to do with it.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 04:04:00 PM by gcpizza »

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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2022, 05:35:38 PM »
How much of this post of yours from last year is still relevant to your current technique/workflow?

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=70169.msg674326#msg674326

If you're still using 1/2 cup of oil at those temperatures,  that's your problem right there.  In fact back then I couldn't believe that you hadn't set your oven on fire. And if you're using EVOO, you're making the problem even worse.  You shouldn't need more than 1/4 cup or less of REFINED olive oil and a bake temperature of 450-475° F. If you're still using 525° F and that much oil,  the oil is just bubbling out of the pan and hitting the hot oven surfaces causing smoke and a fire hazard.  Cheese contacting the pan has nothing to do with it.

Few points:
-I now use a Lloyd pan.
-not using EVOO (never did)
-It is the cheese contacting the pan.  I see it with my eyes; cheese oozing "out" from the corners (which have pulled away from the pan) and contacting the pan.  Happens with the side edges too sometimes.  It's from these points from which the smoke rises. 
-I MAY be using too much olive oil.
-haven't noticed any oil hitting the hot oven surfaces leading to the smoke.  The smoke only comes from the points of contact mentioned above.
-thanks for the input ::thumbsup::


PS:  This forum should have a thumbs-up emoji.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 05:51:31 PM by 9slicePie »

Offline HansB

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2022, 06:28:01 PM »
This is an odd one. I bake Detroit Style with cheese piled all along the edge of the Lloyd pan at 525° and don't get any smoke at all.
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Offline gcpizza

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2022, 06:41:25 PM »
Few points:
-I now use a Lloyd pan.
-not using EVOO (never did)
-It is the cheese contacting the pan.  I see it with my eyes; cheese oozing "out" from the corners (which have pulled away from the pan) and contacting the pan.  Happens with the side edges too sometimes.  It's from these points from which the smoke rises. 
-I MAY be using too much olive oil.
-haven't noticed any oil hitting the hot oven surfaces leading to the smoke.  The smoke only comes from the points of contact mentioned above.
-thanks for the input ::thumbsup::


PS:  This forum should have a thumbs-up emoji.

You might not "see" the oil hitting the oven wall as it will be almost an aerosol. You will see the smoke though.

In the above mentioned post you were pretty adamant about not par-baking the crust:

"NO PAR-BAKING FOR ME.  I refuse to parbake"

Is that still your position?  If so and your cheese is burning causing enough smoke to fill up your kitchen and apartment,  you're baking too long at too high of a temperature. For this style without par-baking you'll need lower temperatures and longer bake times. If you par-bake you might be able to use higher temperatures/shorter times to finish the crust and cook the toppings. Either way you probably don't need as much oil as you think you do.

Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2022, 10:58:44 PM »
This is an odd one. I bake Detroit Style with cheese piled all along the edge of the Lloyd pan at 525° and don't get any smoke at all.

So true.



You might not "see" the oil hitting the oven wall as it will be almost an aerosol. You will see the smoke though.

In the above mentioned post you were pretty adamant about not par-baking the crust:

"NO PAR-BAKING FOR ME.  I refuse to parbake"

Is that still your position?  If so and your cheese is burning causing enough smoke to fill up your kitchen and apartment,  you're baking too long at too high of a temperature. For this style without par-baking you'll need lower temperatures and longer bake times. If you par-bake you might be able to use higher temperatures/shorter times to finish the crust and cook the toppings. Either way you probably don't need as much oil as you think you do.


Much thanks for your input.  :handshake:

Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2022, 11:12:38 PM »
So what happens?

Works fine. *shrug*
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Offline Ovenray

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2022, 03:28:00 AM »
Works fine. *shrug*

Thus no reference and simply take your word for it.
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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2022, 08:00:36 AM »
Thus no reference and simply take your word for it.
That’s exactly what I am doing. This not being an academic or professional site, I figure my choices are agree, dispute, search/research, or discuss politely. You have some good ideas, people would like to engage with you. At times I feel like I agree with you at my own peril.
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Offline Timpanogos Slim

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2022, 10:48:39 AM »
Thus no reference and simply take your word for it.

I dunno what to tell you man. Anecdotes gonna be anecdotes.

Here's another:

Pepperoni is just American chorizo.
- Eric

Offline Ovenray

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2022, 12:06:56 PM »
That’s exactly what I am doing. This not being an academic or professional site, I figure my choices are agree, dispute, search/research, or discuss politely. You have some good ideas, people would like to engage with you. At times I feel like I agree with you at my own peril.

Although it's hard at times to have one's weaknesses pointed out I do appreciate the honesty, it provides me with a different outlook on myself. Thanks.
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Offline Ovenray

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Re: Smoke problem
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2022, 12:07:17 PM »
I dunno what to tell you man. Anecdotes gonna be anecdotes.

Here's another:



Thanks man.
EffeUno P134HA 509

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