What does 0.07g of IDY look like?

Started by matermark, March 20, 2023, 06:25:10 PM

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matermark

Quote from: scott r on March 21, 2023, 06:11:23 PM
To me this sounds like a lot of mixing for a dough at this hydration.   I think it would be good for what you are used to (doughs in the 70's) but for doughs in the 60's for hydration they usually need less mixing.   Could be a clue to some of the problems... carry on!
Scott, this dough at 65% felt much different than the full 00 dough. I think the KABF totaled more than 60% in this recipe. I started adding the remaining flour from a ziploc bag before I noticed I was pouring KABF, not 00! I poured exactly 190g and then I pour everything into the poolish bowl. I already had a bag of 211g Anna and 289g KABF, so the KABF totaled 479g. I thought about dumping the 190g but I poured it into the remaining water & yeast, so I just decided to go ahead with it, the totals weren't affected, and next time I'll try at least 60% Anna 00, but you can feel the gluten of the KABF. I haven't kneaded dough in a long time! I used to just use the Kitchen Aid and dump it into a baking sheet. I have diabetic neuropathy and losing strength in my right hand so this is the most work I've done in a long time--I haven't made pizza dough in YEARS!

Do you have anything to say about Anna/Cento 00? It was around $15 for the 11lb bag and was covered by EBT so I took a chance. The only other 00 I own is KA. Thanks for your wisdom/help.

scott r

I used that Anna flour one or twice many years ago.  Its been too long for me to comment, but I honestly believe that just about any flour is going to work fine if you ferment it and mix it properly. 

Im a big fan of KAAP flour for my pizzas that I make at home and its usually easily accessible anywhere.  It might be worth it to just stick with that in the future, as I have made really great pizza of many different styles with it from fluffy light Sicilian to bar pizza to thin and crispy to Neapolitan to Neo Neapolitan to NY style.  For me it can do it all... but I feel that way about most flours.

matermark

I don't ever remember using KAAP! I've even used their white whole wheat but not their AP.
The last batch I couldn't even do this, it seemed lifeless but better than the KA00:


https://youtu.be/fAOkbTN3bFI?t=350

I don't know this guy, maybe he's a member here, he's in the UK I believe. I was watching some of his videos over the weekend and I couldn't believe how much he was folding & stretching his dough, doing the window pane test, throwing it down again, stretching it again & again. Window pane, stretching...

That's why I took some extra stretches on this dough. I rolled it into a log and tried cutting it into 5 pieces. There was no bulk fermentation, just the poolish and mixing in the remainder and kneading I did. I'm going with whatever they do in their own containers. I took one out of the fridge about an hour ago and I'll see how easy it is to stretch and if I can get over 10 inches I'll make it tonight.

matermark

I just checked the one I pulled an hour ago...

scott r

Ouch.  You might still be able to get a decent pizza out of that tonight but it wont be good by tomorrow.  Its likely too far gone already.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


matermark

Quote from: scott r on March 21, 2023, 08:31:55 PM
Ouch.  You might still be able to get a decent pizza out of that tonight but it wont be good by tomorrow.  Its likely too far gone already.
I don't understand... there's just 1-1.75g of yeast for (5) 262g doughballs and the poolish was hardly any bubbles! How can it be too far gone? It didn't even rise yet!

scott r

The poolish is providing you with dough that has already fermented.  Have you been monitoring your finished dough temperature after mixing?

matermark

#27
No, I have not monitored temps.

This pizza was the most workable so far. I was able to open it up with my fingertips and spread it out and even use the Neapolitan slap!

It's the largest diameter I ever made too.

I just ate the whole thing!

REALLY!

I usually don't eat just cheese, this is pepperoni country, but I wanted to take pics barebones. I also forgot the garlic.

Scott, how much should the doughballs rise in the fridge over the next 48 hours or couple days? I'll keep an eye on the rest. If that doughball didn't have that bubble, would you still feel it's over-fermented? It may have been the way I rolled & balled it since I was cutting slices off a log of dough like the way deli meats are cut & piled. I'll check every few hours or so...

scott r

Looking at the bubble I thought your dough had fermented a good amount, probably mostly in the poolish form, explaining why there has not been a lot of rise.  When you use a decent amount of poolish in a recipe there isn't a need for a lot of rise in the dough. 

Its making a great looking pizza! 

How long it will stay making pizzas this good is hard for me to tell because I have been having a tough time following your recipe.  Typically when I see a dougball that looks like the one you pictured it needs to be used right away and can not last for many days in the fridge.  If there is a healthy amount of yeast in your recipe it will not be this good for long.  If there is very little yeast you might still get a decent pizza in a few days, but again... I don't love the look of that bubble.   I do love the pizza though, nice work!

matermark

Thanks! I just woke up I didn't  decide if today's pizza will be for lunch or dinner! I'll check the other dough balls when I get down there, hope they aren't blown up!

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


matermark

#30
My Doctor's gonna kill me! This is like 7 out of 8 days eating pizzas.

Here are some pics. The dough has lots of tiny bubbles. I never measured inches but the containers have sides that have a lip, like a swerve in the plastic to use as a guideline...

I was hungry and made it for lunch! I'll try to save the other half for dinner, but I just cannot guarantee anything!

Mark

matermark

Yesterday after balling, and today...

matermark

OK, here's day 3...

I missed it, felt everything went great but when I opened the door to turn it, something happened... see it?


scott r

This series of bakes shows a really good example of a dough progressing through being fully fermented (first bake), and then going too far on subsequent days.  Im sure the pizza was still tasty, but notice how pale the crust is compared to the cheese as the days go on.  This shows how the natural sugars have been all used up in the dough.  Ill bet the dough got less crispy and light as the bakes went on as well.  It probably became more gummy.  Of course, you lose the char flavor too, which is a huge component of the overall flavor of the pizza.

matermark

Scott, what should I be looking for? I don't know if it's the tiny bubbles, crust color, dough height in the container, etc.

I tried for 90 seconds but this one tore. I have otherwise had my 2 best yesterday and today. I stretched them easily by knuckles, I don't have spinning down yet, only a couple inches above 2 hands of knuckles as well as gravity. I don't have the guts yet to toss it up in the air... I'm confined to a 15" x 15" area on the table!

OK, please explain what to look at/for. Thanks.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Howitzer21

Look at the sides of the crust where you have the most uniform color. See how on Mar 21st pizza it's more a rusty brown, but then todays is much more pale, with yesterday's pizza somewhere in the middle? That's what Scott is referring to. The stretching seems pretty good, the color difference is a function of the chemistry in the dough as the fermentation continues to "consume" the simple sugars in the dough.

I think Scott pointed it out as it's a common discussion about balancing long fermentations (for better flavor) with peak fermentation (for browning). Everyone has a different preference and your experiment gives you good information for you to find your preferred bake.

Pizzas look good, nice work!
-Zack

matermark

#36
Quote from: Howitzer21 on March 23, 2023, 10:18:32 PM
Look at the sides of the crust where you have the most uniform color. See how on Mar 21st pizza it's more a rusty brown, but then todays is much more pale, with yesterday's pizza somewhere in the middle? That's what Scott is referring to. The stretching seems pretty good, the color difference is a function of the chemistry in the dough as the fermentation continues to "consume" the simple sugars in the dough.

I think Scott pointed it out as it's a common discussion about balancing long fermentations (for better flavor) with peak fermentation (for browning). Everyone has a different preference and your experiment gives you good information for you to find your preferred bake.

Pizzas look good, nice work!

But today's bake was 90 not 120-150 like the other bakes.
OK, tomorrow's bake I'll try to do 2.5 minutes like the older ones.
Oh, and I just ordered a digital scale that does g to 0.01 and oz to 0.001. I'll have it Saturday.

Finally, I'd like to know if anyone has experience with a specific flour, I need to find where to put it.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T