Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Sicilian Style => Topic started by: Santo on March 08, 2022, 11:41:14 PM

Title: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: Santo on March 08, 2022, 11:41:14 PM
I really like what happens to my cheese melt when i cook it at about 425 - 450. Any good recipes at this range? I'm cooking in the 14x14 lloyds sicilian pan. I have my eye on Hans' Detroit style pizza. I want to do a par bake and i want to do cheese on top.

I want a crispy bottom but i want a light inside.

Btw my wife says she wants a dense pizza. Any idea what this even means? Lol. Any examples of a dense sicilian? Thanks.
Title: Re: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 09, 2022, 10:00:01 AM
My guess is that she is looking for something like the first picture below as opposed to the second. I would agree for Sicilian.

With a par-bake, you can have your pizza and eat it too, so to speak. Par-bake at a higher temp, and finish at a lower to get the cheese melt you want.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=69420.0
Title: Re: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: Santo on March 09, 2022, 11:31:08 AM
My guess is that she is looking for something like the first picture below as opposed to the second. I would agree for Sicilian.

With a par-bake, you can have your pizza and eat it too, so to speak. Par-bake at a higher temp, and finish at a lower to get the cheese melt you want.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=69420.0

Great idea. Your pics are spot on and i am going to do the high temp par bake. My issue is almost always that my undercarriage gets brown, sometimes even bordering on black, but it often manages to be too soggy for my tastes at the same time. In order to rectify this, i am considering trying out crisco to lightly coat the bottom of my pan instead of olive oil, and/or parbaking the pie on a stone toward my bottom element with the high temp. I'd prefer to leave the stone out of this since i view sicilian as something i can make faster than my NY round pies, not having to heat the stone for an hour, etc. I keep seeing everyone say that the higher the temp, the better, but even with my lloyds pan, i get the dark color but without the lasting crispiness.

I've also tried using extra amounts of olive oil, so i can achieve that frying effect. Is it better to go with crisco for that? Or should i stick with the par bake, remove the pizza from the pan, and then put in a lot of oil before putting the shell back atop the oil for the oven-fry second bake, dressed?

I am amazed by the pics in the thread you sent and i watched the videos, and read Andrew's process. So would you suggest parbaking the crust and then putting it in the preheated lloyds pan that contains olive oil which is smoking? Is it better to use an oil with a higher smoke point? And since i plan on doing my parbake on high , but my second stage bake at 425-450, would this be hot enough to achieve that frying effect if i preheat the pan with the oil inside?

Lastly, i am interested in making this a same-day dough. I have read your thread on your Sicilian pies and i was amazed by your pies. I bought the ldmp. But i am not sure if i'm using it properly. i'm using gold medal bread flour and the Hoosier Hill Farm LDMP from amazon. What does the LDMP achieve? I've read some people saying it makes the dough crispier, and i saw another great pizza maker on this board mention that it makes the pizza softer (This is contradicting what i thought i knew about ldmp.)

When i have used it, i feel like i believe it makes my pizza  (and bread) softer in an undesirable way. Perhaps it wasn't the ldmp that caused this, i am not yet certain. But from your thread, if i am understanding it correctly,  im getting is that it helps develop flavor without having to do the longer cold ferment. Of course i want to make sicilian pizzas within 3-5 hour range for so many reasons.

Title: Re: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: scott r on March 09, 2022, 11:35:34 AM
Im not sure if you were referring to me with my recent comments on the other thread about LDM making pizza floppier (if so thank you!).  Im not saying it makes the dough softer per se.  What happens is that LDM makes your crust brown faster.  That in turn forces you to pull the pizza sooner, and that is why it was contributing to the floppy dough problem in the other thread.
Title: Re: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 10, 2022, 08:52:06 AM
I'd try several oils in the hot pan. I'd probably use olive oil, but I'd heat the pan then put oil in the hot pan rather than the other way around.

The Hoosier Hill Farm LDMP is 3X (60 vs 20) stronger than the LDMP I use, so if you were following my recipe you'd only use 1/3 as much. The softness you experienced may be exactly what Scott described. In my experience, it does make pizza a bit crisper, all other things being equal.

The LDMP accelerates the process of breaking starch down to sugars and to a lesser extent, proteins into peptides and amino acids. When I first started using LDMP, I thought it only had amylase enzymes that work on the starch. Scott123 thought it contained proteolytic enzymes as well. I ended up testing it, and he was right. LDMP may have some effect of accelerating fermentation, but I think it's also mimicking some of biochemical activities which is the main driver of the accelerated flavor development.
Title: Re: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: 9slicePie on March 10, 2022, 10:24:52 AM
I'd probably use olive oil, but I'd heat the pan then put oil in the hot pan rather than the other way around.

Wouldn't that pose a problem when placing dough in to a hot pan with pre-heated oil in it?  (ie: crazy sizzling)
Title: Re: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 10, 2022, 10:36:52 AM
Wouldn't that pose a problem when placing dough in to a hot pan with pre-heated oil in it?  (ie: crazy sizzling)

I've never tried it. I don't think it would be a problem. It sounds like it works for Andrew.
Title: Re: Best recipe for low temp 425-450 sicilian cook?
Post by: Pizza-Face on March 19, 2022, 03:34:38 PM
Great idea. Your pics are spot on and i am going to do the high temp par bake. My issue is almost always that my undercarriage gets brown, sometimes even bordering on black, but it often manages to be too soggy for my tastes at the same time. In order to rectify this, i am considering trying out crisco to lightly coat the bottom of my pan instead of olive oil, and/or parbaking the pie on a stone toward my bottom element with the high temp. I'd prefer to leave the stone out of this since i view sicilian as something i can make faster than my NY round pies, not having to heat the stone for an hour, etc. I keep seeing everyone say that the higher the temp, the better, but even with my lloyds pan, i get the dark color but without the lasting crispiness.

Have you tried moving your bake to the top rack, or maybe second from top?