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Author Topic: Modernist Pizza  (Read 12986 times)

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #140 on: November 20, 2021, 11:46:33 AM »
Could you elaborate on these vast differences?

This could be a long one: but let me start out with some brief points:

1. Editing
The pizza book is concise and well-organized, while the bread one is repetitive and disorganized as if the goal was to pad the content to reach the desired page count. Minor topics are covered in great detail, while important ones (like sourdough) are glossed over in the bread book

2. Photos
The photos in the pizza book are breathtaking; many of the photos in the bread book are boring and add little, as if they are padding the page count.

3. Content
Bread has been an integral part of our culture since it was discovered that soaked, fermented grains could be cooked to sustain us and contribute to our success as a species. Tens of thousands of years have gone into developing the ingredients, grain varieties, growing, harvesting, milling technologies, baking, packaging, distribution .....etc. There is relatively new under the sun when it comes to baking bread. Much of the content in the bread book has been extensively researched elsewhere, and much of it is well-known or of trivial importance to bread enthusiasts. There are precious few "modernist" techniques in the book that result in a better outcome.

I'm still absorbing the content of the pizza book. Even though the authors are the same, the topic is very different (please shoot me now if this devolves into a "pizza is not bread" debate.) with countless ideas for improving my pizzas. Today is "toppings" day: I'm making Genovese Pizza inspired by Pietro Parisi (il Cuoco Contadino) with French onion sauce and braised short ribs. Also making a pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce for a different pizza. This is great fun! Maybe I'll have time to post photos.

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #141 on: November 20, 2021, 11:56:27 AM »
So I believe thatís just me taking the sauce closer to the edge. When the crust puffs up, it brings some sauce with it, thereby keeping it wet/moist in the oven on the inside rim and then the outer crisps up.

All of those were made with an Ooni Koda 16 btw. Should have said that I guess. Those Neapolitans were made with Caputo Nuvola.
I'll be baking some pizzas in my Ooni Pro, with dough made with 65% Nuvola/30% durum/5% rye, in less than an hour. I like the Nuvola better than any "00" type of flour I've ever used. That's interesting about the rim. Those lines look so clean.
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Offline Robenco15

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #142 on: November 20, 2021, 12:33:10 PM »
This could be a long one: but let me start out with some brief points:

1. Editing
The pizza book is concise and well-organized, while the bread one is repetitive and disorganized as if the goal was to pad the content to reach the desired page count. Minor topics are covered in great detail, while important ones (like sourdough) are glossed over in the bread book

2. Photos
The photos in the pizza book are breathtaking; many of the photos in the bread book are boring and add little, as if they are padding the page count.

3. Content
Bread has been an integral part of our culture since it was discovered that soaked, fermented grains could be cooked to sustain us and contribute to our success as a species. Tens of thousands of years have gone into developing the ingredients, grain varieties, growing, harvesting, milling technologies, baking, packaging, distribution .....etc. There is relatively new under the sun when it comes to baking bread. Much of the content in the bread book has been extensively researched elsewhere, and much of it is well-known or of trivial importance to bread enthusiasts. There are precious few "modernist" techniques in the book that result in a better outcome.

I'm still absorbing the content of the pizza book. Even though the authors are the same, the topic is very different (please shoot me now if this devolves into a "pizza is not bread" debate.) with countless ideas for improving my pizzas. Today is "toppings" day: I'm making Genovese Pizza inspired by Pietro Parisi (il Cuoco Contadino) with French onion sauce and braised short ribs. Also making a pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce for a different pizza. This is great fun! Maybe I'll have time to post photos.

Thanks so much! I think Iím definitely going to get Mod Bread even with everything youíve said. Appreciate the reply!

And please post pictures or your pizzas! They sound INCREDIBLE!

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #143 on: November 20, 2021, 07:40:51 PM »
Here is a quick snap of the Parisi Genovese (sorry for the shallow depth of focus): French onion sauce, braised brisket point (recipe called for short rib, but I had a nice brisket point in the freezer.) Beef cooked sous vide because braising at high-altitude is problematic. The crust was from a sourdough prepared by a friend. The combination was perfect. Other similar pizzas which were topped with cheese, mushroom sauce, etc. weren't as good as this simple pizza with just two toppings.  The pressure caramelized mushroom sauce was silky and delicious, but really didn't belong in a 900F oven. I'm thinking of using the leftovers for a savory crepe filling. The French onion sauce is a winner!

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2021, 11:37:06 PM »
Here is a quick snap of the Parisi Genovese (sorry for the shallow depth of focus): French onion sauce, braised brisket point (recipe called for short rib, but I had a nice brisket point in the freezer.) Beef cooked sous vide because braising at high-altitude is problematic. The crust was from a sourdough prepared by a friend. The combination was perfect. Other similar pizzas which were topped with cheese, mushroom sauce, etc. weren't as good as this simple pizza with just two toppings.  The pressure caramelized mushroom sauce was silky and delicious, but really didn't belong in a 900F oven. I'm thinking of using the leftovers for a savory crepe filling. The French onion sauce is a winner!
By any chance, were there any ideas from the Modernist Pizza book that were incorporated into this bake?
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #145 on: November 20, 2021, 11:46:03 PM »
By any chance, were there any ideas from the Modernist Pizza book that were incorporated into this bake?
Of course; that is why I posted here. The entire Genovese pizza recipe from Parisi is in the book. The book calls for its "artisan dough", but I used the excellent sourdough a friend brought over. The recipes for the French onion sauce and the braised short ribs that are part of the Genovese pizza are from the book. Also the pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce which was used in another pizza is from the book. I didn't include a photo of it because I really didn't think it was something I want to use again in Neapolitan-style pizza. Maybe on a pan pizza or a savory crepe. 

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #146 on: November 20, 2021, 11:54:00 PM »
Of course; that is why I posted here. The entire Genovese pizza recipe from Parisi is in the book. The book calls for its "artisan dough", but I used the excellent sourdough a friend brought over. The recipes for the French onion sauce and the braised short ribs that are part of the Genovese pizza are from the book. Also the pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce which was used in another pizza is from the book. I didn't include a photo of it because I really didn't think it was something I want to use again in Neapolitan-style pizza. Maybe on a pan pizza or a savory crepe.
Now I feel like an idiot. For some reason, I was thinking I was looking at the 'post a pic of your pie' thread. Anyway, I've had the idea for a long time to do a French onion sauced pizza and incorporate some beef bone marrow somehow. I've never heard of anybody using beef bone marrow in a pizza, and I think it could work well, but maybe not with the French onion sauce. Those two ingredients together might be a bit too much. I also can see how either of those elements might work best without any kind of cheese, or maybe just a very light topping. I was thinking that the French onion sauce might be well complimented with some sort of bread crumb topping, probably post-bake. Your post has got me revisiting and reformulating these ideas.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #147 on: November 20, 2021, 11:57:45 PM »
Now I feel like an idiot. For some reason, I was thinking I was looking at the 'post a pic of your pie' thread. Anyway, I've had the idea for a long time to do a French onion sauced pizza and incorporate some beef bone marrow somehow. I've never heard of anybody using beef bone marrow in a pizza, and I think it could work well, but maybe not with the French onion sauce. Those two ingredients together might be a bit too much. I also can see how either of those elements might work best without any kind of cheese, or maybe just a very light topping. I was thinking that the French onion sauce might be well complimented with some sort of bread crumb topping, probably post-bake. Your post has got me revisiting and reformulating these ideas.

Somewhere on some forum in the distant past I posted about a pizza with bordelaise sauce. I used to have easy access to marrow without the bone. Maybe something I should revisit, too.

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #148 on: November 21, 2021, 12:11:02 AM »
Somewhere on some forum in the distant past I posted about a pizza with bordelaise sauce. I used to have easy access to marrow without the bone. Maybe something I should revisit, too.
I've never actually sourced bone marrow from anywhere, or even had it. It's just something that sounds good to me, and I think I've got at least some idea of what it should taste like. I would imagine any butcher shop should be able to provide at least the bones, but marrow without the bone? I don't know.
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Offline ptix

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #149 on: November 21, 2021, 03:24:15 PM »
As I understand it, there is a hardcover recipe book and a duplicate spiral softcover version - I would be interested in buying the spiral from someone here who ordered the set. 

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Offline Robenco15

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #150 on: November 21, 2021, 04:46:25 PM »
As I understand it, there is a hardcover recipe book and a duplicate spiral softcover version - I would be interested in buying the spiral from someone here who ordered the set.

The Kitchen Manual is what youíre looking for. Check Ebay and Amazon. I was able to get the Modernist Cuisine Kitchen Manual last year. Would be surprised if the pizza showed uo so soon. Canít even find Mod Bread right now.

Offline Bengoshi

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #151 on: December 16, 2021, 01:37:13 AM »
Iím fortunate I have lots of excellent books on pizza, pasta, etc. my passions, Pizza Bible, Mastering, etc.  Modernist may not be perfect, nor Mhyrvold, but Iím frankly thrilled to have a Microsoft billionaire sink his fortune into investigating my hobby. Book 1 is worth it alone for an amazing in depth history of Apizza and of regional and national variations.  Thereís a lot of interesting and useful info. $400 is a lot, but life is short, this is what I love, and luckily I can afford to have this around to expand my collection. Itís easy to be hyper-critical - find whatís good, then offer useful feedback.

Offline bifi85

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #152 on: January 19, 2022, 03:31:52 PM »
Maybe it is a bit out of place, but one of the Modernist Cuisine Team created a new revolutionary cooking thermometer. The preorder starts at the end of this (January) month and people get 30% of the price, if they sign the newsletter before release. It looks very interesting and promising.

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #153 on: January 19, 2022, 03:54:50 PM »
Didn't see price anywhere.  I wouldn't pre-order without knowing the price first.
Lots of wireless thermometers out there.
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #154 on: January 19, 2022, 04:12:36 PM »
You donít pre-order by signing up for 30% off, you get a chance to pre-order with 30% off later in January. Thatís how I read it.

Will probably be pricey. They even say so themselves:

Quote
Because we want you to have the best cooking experience possible, weíre releasing the Predictive Thermometer & Timer together. They were designedófrom the startóto work as a team. No messiní around. Right out of the box. That makes the price look a little higher than some. But the results will be worth it.

If it works as they say it does, itís probably a nice gadget to have.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 04:26:34 PM by Heikjo »
Heine
Oven: Effeuno P134H

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #155 on: January 19, 2022, 04:55:03 PM »
Maybe it is a bit out of place, but one of the Modernist Cuisine Team created a new revolutionary cooking thermometer. The preorder starts at the end of this (January) month and people get 30% of the price, if they sign the newsletter before release. It looks very interesting and promising.

You should disclose that people signing up using your link above earn you an additional discount.

Offline artaxares

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #156 on: January 24, 2022, 08:03:22 AM »
Preorder seems good because it costs less but my advice is to never buy 1st generation of products like this. Multiple wireless sensors in a device that has to endure high fluctuations of temperature and humidity? You really want to see that tested by large number of people and then refined. Startups can't afford to test these products on a scale large enough and ensure that quality control is good enough. It will be expensive enough that you want to be sure it works well and that there is good product support, that is easily worth more than this discount.

Offline bifi85

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #157 on: January 25, 2022, 03:27:29 PM »
Preorder seems good because it costs less but my advice is to never buy 1st generation of products like this. Multiple wireless sensors in a device that has to endure high fluctuations of temperature and humidity? You really want to see that tested by large number of people and then refined. Startups can't afford to test these products on a scale large enough and ensure that quality control is good enough. It will be expensive enough that you want to be sure it works well and that there is good product support, that is easily worth more than this discount.
Yes, 1st generation has all kind of problems. I don't know why it doesn't has wlan. I hate blutooth never works great at home.

They released the price: $129 for the thermometer and $79 for the timer.

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #158 on: January 25, 2022, 03:29:49 PM »
I'll stick with my Thermoworks Timers and Remote Thermometers.
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline killerasp

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #159 on: March 06, 2022, 08:30:34 PM »
if anyone cares, yould should setup some price alerts using camelcamelcamel or keepa. i ended up getting the MP for $100 for a used version. it arrived with only some knicks and scratches but otherwise great condition.

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