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Offline ose

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rise again after freezing ?
« on: June 17, 2022, 05:11:29 PM »
Hi I tried this:
Ingredients- 00 Flour 618g
                      water 383g (62%H)
+the other ingredients which produces 2 doughballs 18 oz each.
First I made a biga (pinch of instant yeast) for over night in the refrigerator, after 1 hr. on counter first.
next day I mixed the adjusted remaining amounts of ingredients (salt, oil, and .247g instant yeast).
after approx 2 hrs I  refrigerated the dough for overnight again (double ferment). Next morning I made two doughballs, bagged and froze one ball. I made an excellent pizza later that day with the other ball (550F oven).

5 days later I, at night moved the frozen ball to the refrigerator in a nice container, the next day I put the container out in a 75degree environment with intentions of it rising again. It didnt. I waited for 4 or 5 hrs and then made a pizza.
Not very good.

Misconceptions?:
I thought I could double ferment a pizza dough
I thought I could re-rise a pizza dough after freezing.
I am out of control. I was just experimenting with what you can do (or Not do)
I would appreciate advice
Ose


         
« Last Edit: June 17, 2022, 05:57:47 PM by ose »
Ose

Offline foreplease

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2022, 07:53:19 AM »
One fact is that if you are using it 5 days after you froze it, it could have safely spent that entire time in the refrigerator. That is not helpful answering your question about dough rising after being frozen though.


You use a seemingly very low amount of yeast. I’m all for that but there has to be some time at warmer temperatures for the yeast to resume its job. I don’t know how much flour you are using but I guessed at 450 g for 2 pizzas. That results in a 0.0005 x your flour weight or 0.05%, plus the small amount in the biga (which may not change the formula percentage if you used the same ratio of yeast to flour in the biga).


Frankly, I do it the way you do as far as thawing and letting it resume fermenting - and it works. Typically, I would use a higher percent of yeast in dough bound for the freezer - but I understand you want to make 2 balls, same formula, and freeze one.


Without forgetting that the 5 days could take place entirely in the fridge, with your low yeast amount I might try taking the dough out of the fridge in the morning, coat it with a thin film of oil, and cover it with a mixing bowl (upside down) on your counter and leave it all day. See if that gives you more activity than 4-5 hours. If not,you need more yeast IMO.
-Tony

Offline texmex

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2022, 10:26:38 AM »
The only factor I see missing from the equation is a reball of the fermented, then thawed frozen dough ball. It should have enough oomph left to get the 2nd rise if you reform the dough into a tight ball, then give it the RT treatment for those extra hours.
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Offline ose

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2022, 07:08:35 AM »
Thanks for that advice. I did actually reball that dough after thawing. I'm thinking now that I probably should have made more sure that I was using enough yeast to get the dough to re-rise . If not that, then just let is rise longer. At least Im hearing that it should work well if you want to freeze a dough .
Ose

Offline texmex

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2022, 07:23:21 AM »
I very often freeze half a batch of dough, in balls and C.F. the rest.  I try not to let my dough rise too much before balling it up and getting it into the freezer.  My yeast amount is .5%. You will get the hang of it!
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Offline ose

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2022, 05:51:31 PM »
I re-did my 2-17oz pizza balls. This time I opened a fresh pack of instant yeast for the biga (just a little more than last time, which was a little then.). A couple of hrs. on the counter helped the biga to get going before refrigerating. The next day I added the rest of the ingredients including a little more yeast than indicated. and after 3+ hrs., I balled 2 doughs, and refrigerated  one and froze the other.
 The next day I room temped the refrigerated one. I made the pizza when it looked like the dough was going to explode out of the container (5+hrs). It was the best pizza I made to date (half olive half pepperoni). very good crust.
I'll force myself to wait a week before refrigerating the frozen one overnight to make the pizza the next day As I did the first one. I think my problem was a too tiny amount of old yeast for the biga and not letting it stay in room temp long enough.
the pizza shown here -I used a fresh mozzarella this time because I had one . I usually use a low moisture mozzarella. 
Thanks for the feedback  and suggestions which really helps .
 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 05:53:39 PM by ose »
Ose

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2022, 10:55:50 PM »
Am I remembering that Tom mentioned that some yeast will die when you freeze dough, so you need to use MORE yeast that normal in frozen pizza dough?

I am sure Peter can locate that (assuming I am not losing my mind here).  :-D

P.S. I also think he mentioned that the frozen pizza that you buy, the stuff that is good for a year, is leavened with baking powder instead of yeast, so it will still rise after extended periods of freezing. Again... maybe I am imagining things, but if it wasn't Tom, I definately remember reading that somewhere.

Offline ose

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2022, 06:56:45 AM »
Wow that adds a whole new twist to the yeast situation. Not using yeast at all, but baking powder instead . I just read that too. I will have a better opinion on that after I un freeze the dough ball I have. If it re rises well then I wont try the baking powder alternative for now.
If it doesn't rise well then then I have to use more yeast to freeze a dough assuming some of the yeast doesn't reactivate after freezing. The baking powder switch does sound interesting though.
Ose

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 11:45:18 AM »
Here is a post, along with a link to other posts, that are directed to frozen doughs, including increasing the amount of yeast:

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=62336.msg618796;topicseen#msg618796

Peter

Offline ose

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2022, 07:53:44 AM »
thanks for the links. They are good info. I start to question why I feel I must be able to freeze dough. Its not that simple to get it right when you can just make a preferment the night before, and a great dough the next day.
Ose

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Offline stevenfstein

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2022, 08:53:49 AM »
so if I usually do a 3 day CF, what would be the better procedure for me. Ball after mix, freeze, thaw and let it continue to CF for the 3 days or CF for the 3 days, freeze, thaw and use?

Best... Steve

Offline texmex

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2022, 10:37:09 AM »
so if I usually do a 3 day CF, what would be the better procedure for me. Ball after mix, freeze, thaw and let it continue to CF for the 3 days or CF for the 3 days, freeze, thaw and use?

Best... Steve
I don't believe freezing a C.F. 3 day old dough will be ideal, but I have probably done it at some point.  ::)

I have great results balling the doughs immediately for freezing, then let them thaw out in fridge for a few days, or directly to a room temp rise.
The days thawing in fridge give a slight bump to depth of flavor not found in a strictly frozen dough ball that goes straight to RT ( in which I don't see a need for reballing). If frozen and then thawed in fridge, I will reball the dough for the hours long RT before baking, otherwise the dough becomes  unmanageable, as it is well on the way to blowing out after thawing out a few days.
Otherwise, I bulk C.F. a few days, then cut off enough dough for that bake, ball em up and use room rest a few hours to get the dough to rise again.
Even doughs that have been in C.F. for a week or longer have bounced back once reballed and allowed to get a 2nd rise at RT.
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Offline ose

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Re: rise again after freezing ?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2022, 11:27:57 AM »
That procedure sounds good. Im doing a two day CF dough right now from the freezer. I'll re ball that to do a RT for 4 hrs before making the pizza (or as long as it takes to rise well)
I think my only issue may be the amount of yeast I originally used. I've since learned that a little more yeast should be used if the intent is freezing. 
Any opinion on making a biga (CF 1or2 days) and then mixing all the rest of the ingredients and then CF that overnight. make pizza next day after enough RT. Is that double ferment really worth it?
Ose

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