Pizza Making Forum

Reviews & Opinions => Pizzeria/Restaurant Recommendations => Topic started by: norma427 on November 19, 2010, 01:51:52 PM

Title: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 19, 2010, 01:51:52 PM
I am going to NY tomorrow and want to try out Kesteís pizza and maybe other pizzas, if something doesnít happen in the meanwhile.  I might even go to DiFaraís.

I wondered if anyone wanted to take any specific pictures or if I get to talk to any pizza operators, if there are questions anyone wants me to ask?  I am only going to be in NY for a day, so I wonít be able to visit many places.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: JConk007 on November 19, 2010, 07:20:49 PM
Have fun Norma!! Great place to visit .
Lots of recommendations here in the restaurant section for your review you may be reading them until you go  :-D
John
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: scott r on November 19, 2010, 07:35:13 PM
Norma, Im so jealous!  Johns is across the street from keste and would offer a taste of coal oven style (keste is neapolitan style).    I like to get a pie from both and share if I have time.    Also close by are some really good slice joints like Joe's.   

Difara's is a good haul from Keste.   If you do get all the way out there make sure you visit the collucio store for ingredients as its very close to Difaras.  Try their olive oil if you go there.   Great tomato/cheese/meat selection as well and they sell san felice flour.     
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 19, 2010, 07:40:38 PM
Have fun Norma!! Great place to visit .
Lots of recommendations here in the restaurant section for your review you may be reading them until you go  :-D
John

John,

Thanks for saying have fun.  :)  I do really like NY, but I wouldn't want to live there.  I did read so many different places to eat pizza, but I am only going for one day.  I will eat a slice for you.  ;D

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 19, 2010, 07:49:29 PM
Norma, Im so jealous!  Johns is across the street from keste and would offer a taste of coal oven style (keste is neapolitan style).    I like to get a pie from both and share if I have time.    Also close by are some really good slice joints like Joe's.   

Difara's is a good haul from Keste.   If you do get all the way out there make sure you visit the collucio store for ingredients as its very close to Difaras.  Try their olive oil if you go there.   Great tomato/cheese/meat selection as well and they sell san felice flour.     

Scott,

Thanks for telling me Johnís is right across the street from Kesteís.  I might also try Johnís.  I wonít be able to eat too much pizza in the short time I have to spend in NY. 

I know DiFaraís is a long haul from Kesteís.  I am not sure if I will get over there or not.  My daughter is driving and we are going to park in Astoria, Queens and then take the subway to Manhattan.  I know the subway system okay, itís just if they changed schedules on the weekends sometimes that gets me fouled up.  If I get to DiFaraís I will try to check out  Collucioís Store.
Thanks for giving me that advise.  I also will eat a slice for you.  :-D

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: scott r on November 19, 2010, 08:28:36 PM
oh...your parking in queens.    I would have a very tough time not getting some indian food over there too.   Some of the best I have had (and i've spent a decent amount of time in london).   I love eating my way through NY!   
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 19, 2010, 08:41:38 PM
oh...your parking in queens.    I would have a very tough time not getting some indian food over there too.   Some of the best I have had (and i've spent a decent amount of time in london).   I love eating my way through NY!   

Scott,

Yes, we are going to park in Queens.  We will probably get the subway either at 46th and Steinway or Broadway.  How much do you think I can eat in one day.   :-D  You will have to give me the names of places to eat Indian food for the next time I visit NY.  I would like to try out some good Indian food.  I never tried Indian food. 

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: scott123 on November 19, 2010, 08:58:29 PM
Also close by are some really good slice joints like Joe's.

Norma, if you get a chance, try a slice from Joe's.  You won't have much of a wait and you'll be able to get a single slice so it won't contribute much to your pizza overload. Since you're a slice purveyor yourself, you really should try a decent slice place like Joe's. As far as Manhattan goes, Joe's is up there, although it's probably lost some luster since I was there last (about 8 years ago). I've never been to Mack's, and I'm not much of a cheddar believer, but I still get the feeling Mack's is probably a few notches above Joe's. As you leave Manhattan, one finds a lot of places better than Joe's.  Since you'll be in the neighborhood, though, you should try a slice.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 19, 2010, 09:13:12 PM
Norma, if you get a chance, try a slice from Joe's.  You won't have much of a wait and you'll be able to get a single slice so it won't contribute much to your pizza overload. Since you're a slice purveyor yourself, you really should try a decent slice place like Joe's. As far as Manhattan goes, Joe's is up there, although it's probably lost some luster since I was there last (about 8 years ago). I've never been to Mack's, and I'm not much of a cheddar believer, but I still get the feeling Mack's is probably a few notches above Joe's. As you leave Manhattan, one finds a lot of places better than Joe's.  Since you'll be in the neighborhood, though, you should try a slice.

scott123,

If I get a chance I will also try Joeís.  There are so many pizza places to try in NY.  I had a lot of decent pizza in NY before, but I canít remember all the places I went.  Most of the pizzas I have tried were really greasy, but good.  My youngest daughter lives in Brooklyn, so I have tried many places there.  I also will eat a slice where ever I go for you.  Thanks for your recommendation.  :)

Mackís pizza is just different from any pizza I did try in NY.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Trinity on November 20, 2010, 07:56:13 AM
If I was going to NY,NY, I'd have to stop by Katz's Deli and get their reuben or pastrami on rye. Or at least bring home a gift package.

  Just look at this baby!!!  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Katz's_Deli_-_Lunch.jpg
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 20, 2010, 08:15:10 AM
Within blocks of Keste:

Bleeker Street Pizza -- nonna slice is good
Keste
John's of Bleeker
Joe's on Carmine Street -- slice with fresh mootz
Pizza Box -- 3 blocks East of Joe's, across 6th ave on Bleeker Street b/t MacDougal & Sullivan. Solid NY Style

ASTORIA, QUEENS
Sac's Place on Broadway at 29th I think (Broadway stop on N&Q lines) makes decent coal fired pizza

In the northern part of Brooklyn, not too far from Astoria
G Train takes you to Paulie Gee's in Greenpoint (Greenpoint Ave stop) and Motorino Brooklyn (Metropolitan Ave stop)

Since you are doing Keste, if you can get over to Motorino East Village, you'll have an awesome 1-2 punch of Neapolitan style pizza. Both places are killer (Brussels Sprouts & Pancetta pizza at MEV is a head turner)

DiFara on a Saturday afternoon is likely gonna be a time killer (both subway time and waiting on-line), unless you arrive about 30 mins before DeMarco opens (which I recommend heartily) so you can get in and out without burning 2 hours on-line.

I second Indian food. Flushing, Queens has some very good Indian food...and a life without good Indian food is a little bit sadder indeed.

HAVE A GREAT AND FUN DAY!!
  ;D
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 20, 2010, 08:20:46 AM
Oh yeah (if you even check here before venturing out for the day)....beware Murray's Cheese on Bleeker Street, which is very close to Keste, John's and Joe's.

Avoid peeking inside of here.....unless you want to get drawn into an excellent selection of hard to find cheeses from all over the world and other lovely food items in here. It's easy to get spellbound in such places and watch an hour of time just zoom by while gazing and tasting like a kid in a candy store!  Luv it ;)
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 20, 2010, 08:39:38 AM
If I was going to NY,NY, I'd have to stop by Katz's Deli and get their reuben or pastrami on rye. Or at least bring home a gift package.

  Just look at this baby!!!  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Katz's_Deli_-_Lunch.jpg

Trinity,

Thanks for your suggestion.  :)  Katz's reuben or pastrami on rye looks delicious.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 20, 2010, 08:49:43 AM
Oh yeah (if you even check here before venturing out for the day)....beware Murray's Cheese on Bleeker Street, which is very close to Keste, John's and Joe's.

Avoid peeking inside of here.....unless you want to get drawn into an excellent selection of hard to find cheeses from all over the world and other lovely food items in here. It's easy to get spellbound in such places and watch an hour of time just zoom by while gazing and tasting like a kid in a candy store!  Luv it ;)
Within blocks of Keste:

Bleeker Street Pizza -- nonna slice is good
Keste
John's of Bleeker
Joe's on Carmine Street -- slice with fresh mootz
Pizza Box -- 3 blocks East of Joe's, across 6th ave on Bleeker Street b/t MacDougal & Sullivan. Solid NY Style

ASTORIA, QUEENS
Sac's Place on Broadway at 29th I think (Broadway stop on N&Q lines) makes decent coal fired pizza

In the northern part of Brooklyn, not too far from Astoria
G Train takes you to Paulie Gee's in Greenpoint (Greenpoint Ave stop) and Motorino Brooklyn (Metropolitan Ave stop)

Since you are doing Keste, if you can get over to Motorino East Village, you'll have an awesome 1-2 punch of Neapolitan style pizza. Both places are killer (Brussels Sprouts & Pancetta pizza at MEV is a head turner)

DiFara on a Saturday afternoon is likely gonna be a time killer (both subway time and waiting on-line), unless you arrive about 30 mins before DeMarco opens (which I recommend heartily) so you can get in and out without burning 2 hours on-line.

I second Indian food. Flushing, Queens has some very good Indian food...and a life without good Indian food is a little bit sadder indeed.

HAVE A GREAT AND FUN DAY!!
  ;D


pizzablogger,

Thanks for all of you suggestions, also!   :)  I printed all your suggestions out and will see where I have time to visit.  I also want to stop at Sullivan St. Bakery.  There is just too much to do in NY for a day.  I am soon ready to leave so I will take plenty of pictures and report back what I got to do.  All depending on how bad traffic is going, before going into NYC, will also tell what time I have to do what.  Sometimes it only takes 2 1/2 hrs. to get there and sometimes 3 1/2 hrs or more.  Also it will depend on if any accidents are along the way.  At least it is a nice day and I will get to see my other daughter and grandson.  :)  I know my legs will be tired when I return home.  Some of those subway steps are killers.  :-D

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 20, 2010, 09:17:26 AM
At least it is a nice day and I will get to see my other daughter and grandson.  :)

Sounds like a winner....whatever else happens!

Norma, are you done for the winter season at Roots Market or are you still there most weekends?

Thanks --K
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Ev on November 20, 2010, 09:00:53 PM
Since Norma is not home from N.Y. yet, I'll go ahead and answer. Root's is a Tuesday only market, open year round.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 01:44:21 AM
Sounds like a winner....whatever else happens!

Norma, are you done for the winter season at Roots Market or are you still there most weekends?

Thanks --K

pizzablogger,

I did have a good time in NY.  I will report today what I got to do.  Steve is right, market is open all year long and it is only Tuesdays.  It has been that way since 1928. 

Thanks,

Norma
Since Norma is not home from N.Y. yet, I'll go ahead and answer. Root's is a Tuesday only market, open year round.

Steve,

Thanks,  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:32:30 AM
If anyone is interested, this is how my one day trip to NYC was yesterday. 

My daughter and I left yesterday morning and headed to NYC.  The traffic was fine, until we got closer to NYC.  When we are almost near NYC, we usually take the Pulaski Skyway to get near the Holland Tunnel.  Every time I go to NYC, I still marvel at the tunnels that can take you into NYC.  I canít believe they built these so many years ago and how they have lasted all these years.  Both the Holland and Lincoln tunnels are only two lanes.  When we were getting near the Holland Tunnel, there were signs saying the Pulaski Skyway was closed.  We had a GPS and could have went another way, but it said we could follow a detour.  We decided to try the detour.  That was a mistake.  There were some disabled cars along the detour and had traffic backed-up for a long while.  I posted in my one post that it can take anywhere from 2 Ĺ hrs to around 3 Ĺ hrs. for us to drive to NYC, from our area.  Well yesterday because of the Pulaski Skyway being closed it took us more than 4 hrs. to get to NYC.  I have posted pictures in order of what we had time to do for the day.  I will try to explain in order what we did.       

After all the traffic-back ups, going into the Holland Tunnel wasnít too bad.  We then went though a small part of Tribeca, until we arrived at Canal St. in Chinatown.  From there we proceeded to the Williamsburg bridge to take us to Woodside, Queens.  Next to Woodside is Astoria Queens.  We parked near 46th St. and Broadway.  At 46th and Broadway with took the R train to Times Square, Manhattan.  Those trains (subways) still amaze me also, especially the one that are built underground.  If anyone hasnít ever been on a subway they would be in for a treat.  They can go very fast and when going around corners they sound like they are going to jump the tracks.  The first time I ever took a subway, I fell into the lap of a woman went it took off from a dead start. They also take off very fast and if you arenít used to riding the trains, you better hold on.  Many times hen I was on a train there are various people that try to perform for money.  They donít usually bother anyone, and some of them are good.  Yesterday there was an older man that said he was homeless and was singing ďUnder The BoardwalkĒ and other songs.  He just went on his merry way with a hat stretch out if anyone wanted to donated money to him. 

We arrived in Times Square and 42 nd St. and left the train there.  We then went above ground.  The day in NYC was beautiful.  It wasnít too windy or cold.  We then walked to Sullivan St. Bakery, that is owned by Jim Lahey.  I didnít want to eat too much there because we still had the rest of the day to eat in NYC.  My daughter had a piece of Pizza Bianco and I had a piece of Pizza Cavoltiore.  My piece of Pizza Cavoltiore was delicious.  I didnít want to purchase too much there because I would need to carry it around all day, but I did purchase a loaf of Walnut Raisin Bread. 

Then we walked back to Port Authority to meet my youngest daughter.  When in NYC, you can purchase a one day train MTA card for 8.25 to ride limitless on the train for all day.  You just swipe them at each station before getting on the train. 

We all then proceeded to go towards Kesteís on A train.  After we got off the train we went by Joeís pizza.  We arrived at Kesteís and it looked full inside, but there was a table for us.  I asked the waiter if I could take pictures.  He said I could.  After we ordered, I asked the waiter if I could take pictures of the oven.  He said I could.  I then talked to Roberto Caporuscio.  He was very nice and explained some things about his pizzas and oven temperatures.  He also held up his dough balls for me to take a picture.  I told him I also made pizzas and had a small market stand that I only operated one day a week making pizza.  I was also amazed of how fast his oven baked the pizzas.  After we were finished eating, I went back and thanked him for how delicious his pizzas tasted.  He gave me one of this business cards and said to call him, if I needed help.  I asked him what kind of flour he used to make his pizzas.  I told him my oven wouldnít get high enough to use the flour he used.  I told Roberto, I was on pizzamaking.com and was going to post the pictures I took, if he didnít mind.  Roberto said that was okay to post pictures.  He is very passionate about making pizza and could make pizzas very fast. The one picture is of my grandson with some of Roberto sauce around his mouth.  We were lucky we arrived when we did.  When we left there were people waiting outside to get into Kesteís.

I then wanted to try a pizza at Johnís, but the line was too long and my 2 Ĺ year old grandson, would of had a hard time waiting in such a long line.  Johnís will have to wait until another day.

We then proceeded to walk back to Joeís pizza.  I had also wanted to try Joeís pizza.  I just bought one slice. 

We stopped at a couple different places in the area and try out some popsicles at popbar, right next to Joeís.  They also were very good. 

By then it was time to take the train back to Port Authority.  We could have taken the R train when we arrived there, but decided to go above ground and look around some more. Sometimes when you are going from one place to get another train underground there are performers.  Sometimes they are also good.  Yesterday there were a group of performers near Times Square underground.  They were good.   I saw this one pizza place near Times Square that sold pizzas for .99.  We walked the streets near Times Square and went into a couple of shops.  We then took the R train back to Astoria, Queens.  I took a few of pictures at Astoria Park, of the city, looking across the East River.  It was then back on the journey home.  That was my trip for one day.

I had a good time in NYC yesterday and did get to taste some delicious pizza.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:35:36 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:38:51 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:41:24 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Matthew on November 21, 2010, 10:44:30 AM
more pictures

Norma

Where's my buddy The Naked Cowboy?
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:45:09 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:47:15 AM
Where's my buddy The Naked Cowboy?

Matt,

The Naked Cowboy wasn't there yesterday, but the Cookie Monster, Elmo, Minnie and Mickey were there.  :-D

I did take pictures of the Naked Cowboy on another trip to NY.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:49:45 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:53:25 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:56:08 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:59:41 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:06:20 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:09:58 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:14:01 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Trinity on November 21, 2010, 11:23:19 AM
Wow!!! Fantastic pic's Norma! :)

 Any more info on those fullsheet bakery pizzas?
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:30:20 AM
Wow!!! Fantastic pic's Norma! :)

 Any more info on those fullsheet bakery pizzas?


Trinity,

Thanks for saying you like the pictures.  :) I still have some more to post.  I don't have anymore information on those fullsheet bakery pizzas at Sullivan St. Bakery, but I also would like to make some pizzas like those.  They were nice and crunchy on the bottom and delicious in taste.  If I had more time, before I left NYC, I would have bought more of them, but they weren't open when I left.  I wish someone could help make this kind of pizza.  I never have tried anything like them before.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 21, 2010, 11:31:46 AM
Amazing write up and pics Norma! Sounds like you had a great day.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:35:41 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
Amazing write up and pics Norma! Sounds like you had a great day.

Paul,

Thanks for saying you like the write-up and pictures.  :)  I did have a great day, but wish I had more time to be in NYC.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: BrickStoneOven on November 21, 2010, 11:39:57 AM
Where's my buddy The Naked Cowboy?

He is running for the President...I'm not joking.lol
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:41:48 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:45:18 AM
He is running for the President...I'm not joking.lol

BrickStoneOven,

Are you kidding?   :-D  That is way to funny if the naked Cowboy would be running for anything. If I ever find where I have the pictures I took of the Naked Cowboy, I will post them under this thread.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:49:57 AM
more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:53:48 AM
more pictures, some with star hung on 57th street

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:58:44 AM
end of pictures.  I wonder why the Empire State Building was light up like a Crayola Crayon last night.  ??? It was more colors than I have ever seen before.  It was lite up in all the primary colors. 

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Matthew on November 21, 2010, 12:13:33 PM
He is running for the President...I'm not joking.lol

The last I heard, he had filed a multi million dollar lawsuit against Hershey's for copyright infringement.  Maybe he won the lawsuit & is laying in his underwear playing his guitar on his own private island.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 12:34:42 PM

If anyone is interested the UNICEP Snowflake on Fifth Avenue and 57th Street in New York in the two pictures I posted marks the beginning of the holiday giving season and exists as a beacon of hope, peace and compassion for children around the world. The New York Snowflake, donated by the Stonbely family, was engineered and entirely handcrafted by designer Ingo Maurer and his team in Germany, and is 23 feet in diameter, over 28 feet in height, weighs more than 3,300 pounds and uses 16,000 Baccarat crystal prisms.

Sorry, I didnít get a better picture of the UNICEP Snowflake, but we were driving in the car.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 21, 2010, 12:40:29 PM
Thanks for the pictures and recap Norma.....some good snaps in there as well. Always love seeing pics of NYC and hearing more stories....they never get old.

FYI, next time you are going to Queens, more often than not taking the Holland or Lincoln and cutting across the city are not your best bet.

Taking either the Outer Bridge Crossing (from NJ) to the Verrazano Brigde or using the Goethels Bridge (from NJ) to get to the Verrazano Bridge and then using the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway (BQE) is often the faster option. If you must get to Queens via cutting across Manhattan, the Queens-Midtown Tunnel can be a good bet.

Don't know if you utilize them, but on the AM dial of the radio you should pre-set both 880 and 1010 into your AM dial. 880 does traffic on the eights and 1010 on the tens of every minute. By exit 9 or 10 on the NJ turnpike, I religiously work these stations back and forth. Traffic into NYC can change at a moments notice, and these two stations have saved me from more than one backup due to an accident.

Sounds like a great day. Thanks again for sharing! --K  :)
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 01:05:41 PM
Thanks for the pictures and recap Norma.....some good snaps in there as well. Always love seeing pics of NYC and hearing more stories....they never get old.

FYI, next time you are going to Queens, more often than not taking the Holland or Lincoln and cutting across the city are not your best bet.

Taking either the Outer Bridge Crossing (from NJ) to the Verrazano Brigde or using the Goethels Bridge (from NJ) to get to the Verrazano Bridge and then using the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway (BQE) is often the faster option. If you must get to Queens via cutting across Manhattan, the Queens-Midtown Tunnel can be a good bet.

Don't know if you utilize them, but on the AM dial of the radio you should pre-set both 880 and 1010 into your AM dial. 880 does traffic on the eights and 1010 on the tens of every minute. By exit 9 or 10 on the NJ turnpike, I religiously work these stations back and forth. Traffic into NYC can change at a moments notice, and these two stations have saved me from more than one backup due to an accident.

Sounds like a great day. Thanks again for sharing! --K  :)

pizzablogger,

Thanks for saying you liked some of the pictures and recap.  I never get tired of NYC, even though I donít get there very much. 

My oldest daughter did live in Queens for awhile and came back home many times.  She has tried different ways of going back and forth, and usually it doesnít take as long as yesterday to get to NYC.  She drives up 78 from Allentown.  That is about the shortest way from our area.  We did take the NJ turnpike different times and that way is longer for us.  We even tried to come back to our area from Brooklyn, down though Staten Island and that took longer and then we also had to pay the toll for Verrazano Bridge, plus the tolls for the turnpike. 

Thanks for telling about what channels to use on the radio dial. 

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 21, 2010, 01:53:57 PM
Norma, great pictures.
The photo of Carnegie hall brought back great memories for me, my wife and I stayed right across the road in May 2005 @ the Salisbury hotel for our honeymoon.
The first time we went to NY was Christmas 2003, NY is a magical place at Christmas.

Paul
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Tscarborough on November 21, 2010, 01:56:10 PM
Thank you Norma, I feel like I visited the city myself.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 02:31:19 PM
Norma, great pictures.
The photo of Carnegie hall brought back great memories for me, my wife and I stayed right across the road in May 2005 @ the Salisbury hotel for our honeymoon.
The first time we went to NY was Christmas 2003, NY is a magical place at Christmas.

Paul

Paul,

Thanks for saying the pictures were great.  I only have a Sony cheaper Cyber-shot camera and wish I could take better pictures.  There are so many pictures to be taken in NY.  I looked into many pizza businesses and just wanted to see what their pizzas looked like. 

Glad to hear the photo of Carnegie Hall bought back memories for you.  :)  They are doing construction there now. You are right that NY is a magical place at Christmas.  I might get to go to NYC again before Christmas and if I do I will take some more pictures of pizza places I can visit and also how NYC looks at Christmas.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 02:33:11 PM
Thank you Norma, I feel like I visited the city myself.

Tscarborough,

Your welcome.  I will post more pictures on this thread when I get to visit New York again.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Pete-zza on November 21, 2010, 02:35:49 PM
Norma,

I hope you like the walnut raisin bread from Jim Lahey's bakery. For many years I spent Thanksgiving in NYC and would stop by the bakery before heading for the airport to buy that particular bread. It was one of my favorites.

You didn't say all that much about Joe's pizza. Can you critique it for us, and also compare it with your own NY style pizzas?

You grandson is a handsome lad.

Peter
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: andreguidon on November 21, 2010, 03:09:34 PM
wow Norma !! that bulk dough pic is worth $$$ !! very nice recap, thanks for all the details... ill be in FL from the 22DEC to 09JAN, if i get a good deal for tickets i am dying to go to NY... you just made me want to go even more....
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 03:22:53 PM
Norma,

I hope you like the walnut raisin bread from Jim Lahey's bakery. For many years I spent Thanksgiving in NYC and would stop by the bakery before heading for the airport to buy that particular bread. It was one of my favorites.

You didn't say all that much about Joe's pizza. Can you critique it for us, and also compare it with your own NY style pizzas?

You grandson is a handsome lad.

Peter

Peter,

I do really like the walnut raisin bread from Jim Laheyís bakery, but I think the loaf I purchased was baked a little  too much.  Did your bread you purchased ever look as dark as the picture I posted.? I sliced the walnut raisin bread this morning and had some slices.  This is a picture of the slices.  Do you have any idea how Jim Laheyís bakery makes their pan pizzas?  They were delicious and so crunchy on the bottom.  I never experienced a pizza like that before.

I didnít post much about Joeís pizza because it tasted just like any average pizza I can buy around my area.  As can be seen on the pictures I posted the crust is more dense and bready.  In my opinion the crust had a slightly sweet taste to it.  The cheese and mozzarella on the slice I purchased were just average.  I like a better mozzarella and sauce.  I find with each pizza I taste, they all taste a little different.  As far as comparing it to the pizzas I make at market, I like the Preferment Lehmann dough a lot better.  There were people inside of Joeís purchasing pizza.  There are so many pizza places in NYC to try.

Thanks for saying my grandson is a handsome lad.  He is all boy and wants to keep on the go.  I think we would have stood in line at Johnís to try their pizza, but I know my grandson wouldnít have been that patient.  It is something about his strawberry blonde hair color.  Only my grandfather, then me and now my grandson have that color of hair.  No one else in our entire family have that color of hair.  My hair now is almost white, but it was his color at one time.  My grandsonís parents both have really dark hair. 

I didnít post this other picture before, but we also purchase steak on a stick from street vendors in  Astoria, Queens.  In my opinion their steak on a stick with lemon is really good.  I brought home 5 steak on sticks.  There were from outside Greek vendors.

Norma

Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 03:34:14 PM
wow Norma !! that bulk dough pic is worth $$$ !! very nice recap, thanks for all the details... ill be in FL from the 22DEC to 09JAN, if i get a good deal for tickets i am dying to go to NY... you just made me want to go even more....

andreguidon,

I was also surprised how Keste's dough looked.  I could have taken more pictures, but they were busy, and I didn't want to bother them any more. Roberto was very nice and answered any questions I asked.  His pizzas were amazing in the taste of the crust and the dressing he used.  I would have like to tried more of his pizzas, but I had to save room to eat other things.

I hope you get to visit NYC.  :) It is an amazing place and they do have so many pizzas to try.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Pete-zza on November 21, 2010, 03:48:58 PM
I do really like the walnut raisin bread from Jim Laheyís bakery, but I think the loaf I purchased was baked a little  too much.  Did your bread you purchased ever look as dark as the picture I posted.? I sliced the walnut raisin bread this morning and had some slices.  This is a picture of the slices.  Do you have any idea how Jim Laheyís bakery makes their pan pizzas?  They were delicious and so crunchy on the bottom.  I never experienced a pizza like that before.

Norma,

The crusts of the walnut raisin breads that I purchased from Jim Lahey's bakery were on the dark side but not quite as dark as yours. At one point after one of my visits to NYC, I attempted my own version of a Sullivan Street walnut raisin bread, as I discussed at Reply 56 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4114.msg42660.html#msg42660. Unlike the Lahey bakery, that uses some commercial yeast for their sourdough products, I use only a natural preferment.

If you ever find yourself going to the Sullivan Street bakery in a future visit, you might also pick up some H&H bagels from their bakery (http://www.hhbagels.com/) that is only a few blocks away from the Sullivan Street bakery. That was my other stop before heading for the airport.

I do not have any idea as to how the Sullivan Street bakery makes its pan/sheet pizzas.

Peter
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 04:25:32 PM
Norma,

The crusts of the walnut raisin breads that I purchased from Jim Lahey's bakery were on the dark side but not quite as dark as yours. At one point after one of my visits to NYC, I attempted my own version of a Sullivan Street walnut raisin bread, as I discussed at Reply 56 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4114.msg42660.html#msg42660. Unlike the Lahey bakery, that uses some commercial yeast for their sourdough products, I use only a natural preferment.

If you ever find yourself going to the Sullivan Street bakery in a future visit, you might also pick up some H&H bagels from their bakery (http://www.hhbagels.com/) that is only a few blocks away from the Sullivan Street bakery. That was my other stop before heading for the airport.

I do not have any idea as to how the Sullivan Street bakery makes its pan/sheet pizzas.

Peter
Peter,

Thanks for referencing the link to where you made your own version of Sullivan St. Walnut raisin bread.  Your walnut raisin bread looks delicious.  I will try your formula sometime.

Thanks also for telling me where to find some good bagels, when I have time to visit NYC again.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 21, 2010, 04:36:24 PM
A couple of the pics brightened up a little and sharpened.

In a car in bad light and they still came out as good as they did? Not a bad camera at all.....and a good steady hold.  :)

Loving the under the bridge shots too!
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: scott r on November 21, 2010, 05:52:42 PM
aaah,  street meat, so yummy.    I miss NY so much, and your photos made me feel like I was there.   Thanks Norma!   
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Jet_deck on November 21, 2010, 08:42:33 PM
Thank you Norma, I feel like I visited the city myself.


+1 For me also!
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: JConk007 on November 21, 2010, 08:57:49 PM
I may go to NYC  for the holidays ( only 20 min for ME to the bridge) again this year.  after seeing those great pics Thanks Norma! and what kind of Keste pie was that that blogger touched up? I am drooling!!
Great work ! Have a great thanksgiving!! Very Cute Grandson too he must have been fascinated!
John
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cornicione54 on November 21, 2010, 08:58:30 PM
wow Norma !! that bulk dough pic is worth $$$ !! very nice recap, thanks for all the details... ill be in FL from the 22DEC to 09JAN, if i get a good deal for tickets i am dying to go to NY... you just made me want to go even more....
@andre
I think the pic of the Keste dough is proofed dough balls (judging from the faint lines that show between "squares" of dough).

@Norma
Thanks for the pics and write-up. Fantastic!
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 09:23:11 PM
A couple of the pics brightened up a little and sharpened.

In a car in bad light and they still came out as good as they did? Not a bad camera at all.....and a good steady hold.  :)

Loving the under the bridge shots too!

pizzablogger,

Thanks for fixing up the pictures.  ;D The picture of Robertoís white pizza with that creamy cheese makes me want to have more. That was Kesteís special. It was delicious and so different than any other pizza I have ever tasted. The cheese was delightful. The one picture I took of Kesteís pizza on the upshot had dishes I also would like to find. I also like how you fixed up that fire truck, with the Canal St. on it. When we were in front of Port Authority, there were many Fire trucks going by.  That is also another thing that makes NYC so interesting.  The sights and sounds of NY.  I also love to see all the different people and hear the different languages.  We saw a couple of bag women, when we went to Sullivan St. Bakery on some of the less travel streets.  It is hard to believe how they must live.  The one woman had a cart and three big some kind of carts.  She went to one end of a short block and pushed her grocery cart, then kept going back to get her bigger carts. I couldnít ever imagine living that way.

When we were going back to our area in our car after going over the other bridge, we saw the tram car that goes to Roosevelt Island.  I did go on that tram car different times.  The east side of Manhattan is also very interesting.  I didn't have time to go there yesterday. NY is a photographers dream, with so many shots to be taken.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 21, 2010, 09:26:28 PM
@andre
I think the pic of the Keste dough is proofed dough balls (judging from the faint lines that show between "squares" of dough).

@andre I agree with you. Looks like individual panetti, which have relaxed by quite a bit and will need to be cut out to make individual pizza (a usual event). I see some definite big bubbles here and am wondering what time of the day Norma was there....looks like the dough is potentially getting near the end of its optimal window of usability?
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 09:34:36 PM
aaah,  street meat, so yummy.    I miss NY so much, and your photos made me feel like I was there.   Thanks Norma!   

Scott,

The street meat is really yummy.  When my oldest daughter lived in Queens she always went to two different Greek men that sold the yummy street meat.  The one man was who we purchased the street meat from, was one of her favorites.  I like to visit NY, but my daughter that lived there also really misses NY.  She is used to the aggressive driving and can mange to get us anywhere in no time at all.  I also like to travel on the trains.  I am glad I made you feel like you were there.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 09:36:19 PM

+1 For me also!

Jet_deck,

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 09:42:15 PM
I may go to NYC  for the holidays ( only 20 min for ME to the bridge) again this year.  after seeing those great pics Thanks Norma! and what kind of Keste pie was that that blogger touched up? I am drooling!!
Great work ! Have a great thanksgiving!! Very Cute Grandson too he must have been fascinated!
John

John,

I hope you can get to NY for the holidays.  I am not sure what that pie was that pizzablogger fixed up, but think it might have been the Burata.  There are so many kinds of different pies at Kesteís to choose from.  I am not used to all those different names.  I would have liked to try each one.  Your welcome, anytime.  You have a great Thanksgiving also.  :)  Thanks for saying my grandson is cute.  He lives in Brooklyn, so he is used to everything in NY.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 09:46:39 PM
@andre I agree with you. Looks like individual panetti, which have relaxed by quite a bit and will need to be cut out to make individual pizza (a usual event). I see some definite big bubbles here and am wondering what time of the day Norma was there....looks like the dough is potentially getting near the end of its optimal window of usability?

pizzablogger,

I am not exactly sure what time of the day we went to Keste's, but it had just gotten dark, so it must have been a little after 5:00 pm.  I couldn't believe how Keste's dough looked either, but it sure was flavorful when baked into a pizza.

Norma

Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:16:43 PM
These are the two business cards I got while I visited NY yesterday.  The one from Sullivan St. Bakery, I just picked up from the counter.  The other business card from Kesteís is the one that Roberto handed to me. On the other side of the business card, is Roberto's other information. Roberto took the time to show me a picture of an oven that he had just placed in a pizza business somewhere.  He also told me I could bake the kind of pies he does in my oven at market.  I said I had tried baking pies with Caputo flour in my oven at market, and my oven temperatures didn't really get high enough in my opinion to bake the kinds of pies he baked.  Roberto also asked me where I lived.  I told him in Pa.  He said he operated a pizza business in Pittsburgh at one time. Does anyone know what pizza business he operated?

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cornicione54 on November 21, 2010, 10:44:04 PM
Roberto also asked me where I lived.  I told him in Pa.  He said he operated a pizza business in Pittsburgh at one time. Does anyone know what pizza business he operated?

Norma

From Slice: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/03/keste-pizza-vino-roberto-caporuscio-greenwich-village-manhattan-nyc.html

Prior to Kestť, Caporuscio was the founding pizzaiolo of A Mano in Ridgewood, New Jersey, which he came to in 2007 after opening and running two restaurants in PittsburghóRegina Margherita and Roberto's.

Here are links to some (old) reviews of the respective pizzerias:

http://www.post-gazette.com/dining/20020517dinec5.asp
http://www.lindystoast.com/2006/07/pizza_at_robert.html

Oven-spotting note: both pizzerias appeared to house Gianni Acunto ovens which explains this comment Roberto made in 2007:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5099.msg43748.html#msg43748

Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 10:50:46 PM
From Slice: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/03/keste-pizza-vino-roberto-caporuscio-greenwich-village-manhattan-nyc.html

Prior to Kestť, Caporuscio was the founding pizzaiolo of A Mano in Ridgewood, New Jersey, which he came to in 2007 after opening and running two restaurants in PittsburghóRegina Margherita and Roberto's.




cornicione54,

Thanks for the link and posting where Roberto had two restaurants in Pittsburgh.  :)  I am glad you like the pictures and write-up.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: scott123 on November 21, 2010, 11:27:02 PM
I didnít post much about Joeís pizza because it tasted just like any average pizza I can buy around my area.  As can be seen on the pictures I posted the crust is more dense and bready.  In my opinion the crust had a slightly sweet taste to it.  The cheese and mozzarella on the slice I purchased were just average.  I like a better mozzarella and sauce.  I find with each pizza I taste, they all taste a little different.  As far as comparing it to the pizzas I make at market, I like the Preferment Lehmann dough a lot better.  There were people inside of Joeís purchasing pizza.  There are so many pizza places in NYC to try.

Thanks for your thoughts on Joe's Norma.  It appears that the dreaded restaurant apathy monster has finally reared it's ugly head and plunged Joe's into an oblivion of mediocrity.  During the decade or so that I was going there, it hadn't dropped too much in quality, but that was before they were featured in the movie Spiderman.  I'm guessing that with that much publicity, apathy was inevitable.

The interior photo was very telling.  It may seem like a decent amount of customers, but, compared to it's heyday, that's downright empty.  For the most part (DiFara's is one notable exception), you can pretty much always judge the quality of pies a pizzeria is putting out by the number of customers it has.

Edit: Btw, there's lot's of info on making Sullivan St. Bakery's pizza at home. Lahey even has the recipe in his book.  I believe it's his typical high hydration/no knead process. Lahey (and Bittman) put no knead on the map.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 21, 2010, 11:46:52 PM
Thanks for your thoughts on Joe's Norma.  It appears that the dreaded restaurant apathy monster has finally reared it's ugly head and plunged Joe's into an oblivion of mediocrity.  During the decade or so that I was going there, it hadn't dropped too much in quality, but that was before they were featured in the movie Spiderman.  I'm guessing that with that much publicity, apathy was inevitable.

The interior photo was very telling.  It may seem like a decent amount of customers, but, compared to it's heyday, that's downright empty.  For the most part (DiFara's is one notable exception), you can pretty much always judge the quality of pies a pizzeria is putting out by the number of customers it has.

Edit: Btw, there's lot's of info on making Sullivan St. Bakery's pizza at home. Lahey even has the recipe in his book.  I believe it's his typical high hydration/no knead process. Lahey (and Bittman) put no knead on the map.

scott123,

It is a shame if Joeís pizza used to be as good as you remember.  I didnít know Joeís pizza was featured in Spiderman.  That is interesting to know.  I wanted to taste Joeís pizza, since I was in the area. I have experienced many pizza businesses even in my own area that have gone downhill. It cracked me up when I saw all those ďadult toyĒ shops right near Joeís.  I have never been that area of the village before.  I want to go back and try Johnís pizza and also go back to Kesteís. 

Thanks for telling me about Jim Laheyís recipe being in his book.  :)  I will have to try that recipe someday or the one that is here on the forum. The pizza at Sullivan St. Bakery was also very good.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: andreguidon on November 22, 2010, 03:49:00 AM
@cornicione54, for sure individual dough balls, they are so proofed that they almost came together... still a $ shot !!

Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cornicione54 on November 22, 2010, 04:02:14 AM
@cornicione54, for sure individual dough balls, they are so proofed that they almost came together... still a $ shot !
Very much agreed. Great shot. Conveys a feeling of how soft and stretchable that dough is.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 22, 2010, 04:25:28 AM
Norma,

In one of the photos you took from Keste, a guy is spreading a bright yellow sauce-type 'thingy'  :-D on a dough, do you know what that was? Looks interesting.

Paul
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: andreguidon on November 22, 2010, 04:37:41 AM
i think that is butternut squash...
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 22, 2010, 06:38:40 AM
Norma,

In one of the photos you took from Keste, a guy is spreading a bright yellow sauce-type 'thingy'  :-D on a dough, do you know what that was? Looks interesting.

Paul

Paul,

When I was talking to Roberto, I was so in awe of how fast his pizzas were coming in and out of the oven and of him making the pizzas.  I did ask him what dressing he was putting on that one skin, but now I forget what he said.  I was watching how fast his hands made pizzas also.  This is the menu from Kesteís. http://kestepizzeria.com/menu.html  and a slideshow from Kesteís
http://kestepizzeria.com/menu.html  I asked Roberto if he ever heard of pizzamaking.com and he said yes, he did look at pizzamaking.com.  I also asked him how hot his oven was and he said usually around 900-950 degrees F.  I asked him if he always kept it at that temperature and he said when they are busy.  As I posted before he was very gracious.  We were seated at the second table in front of the prep area, so I did get to watch Roberto make pizzas. I believe I finally got to try a real Neapolitan pizza, at its best.  This was something I was waiting for awhile.  The flavor, texture, smell and feel of the pizzas were all great.  Robertoís pizzas were awesome. 

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 22, 2010, 06:56:41 AM
Thanks Andreguidon. I just checked their menu and one of the pizzas says 'butternut squash cream' so it looks like you were right.

Norma,

Thanks for that info, I bet it was great sitting so close, watching an expert doing his thing.
I have just looked at the menu and it's huge! There are a fair few on that menu that I would demolish! haha.

Paul
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: andreguidon on November 22, 2010, 07:04:14 AM
it was not by eye... i remembered that i saw this in a video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XegkkElTiLA&feature=related
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 22, 2010, 07:07:23 AM
Haha, I thought you had the most incredible eye for ingredients ever!  :-D

I can't view that video from work but I will check it out when I get home.

Paul
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: andreguidon on November 22, 2010, 07:09:10 AM
 :-D :-D i could get some right... but not that good.....
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 22, 2010, 07:23:26 AM

Norma,

Thanks for that info, I bet it was great sitting so close, watching an expert doing his thing.
I have just looked at the menu and it's huge! There are a fair few on that menu that I would demolish! haha.

Paul

Paul,

I was lucky to be seated that close and be able to watch Roberto. If you watch the video Andre posted you can see where we were seated on the right along the wall.  Roberto is an expert in every way. From his handling of the soft dough, to putting the dressing on his pies, is amazing.  ;D  I could have also demolished and tried many of his pizzas, but I had wanted to have room to try other foods in NY.  I will go back to Keste's someday.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 22, 2010, 07:24:43 AM
:-D :-D i could get some right... but not that good.....

Andre,

You are becoming an expert in your own right.  You make delicious looking pizzas also.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: andreguidon on November 22, 2010, 07:53:31 AM
thanks Norma !
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: scott r on November 22, 2010, 10:32:02 AM
the squash pizza is AMAZING, by the way!    Way better than I thought....totally addictive.   
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 26, 2010, 10:27:17 AM
Where's my buddy The Naked Cowboy?

Matt,

I am still looking for the pictures of the ďNaked CowboyĒ.  I know I have them somewhere, or have even given them to my granddaughter.  I have so many pictures taken in NY, but they were taken on my Canon camera, before I had a digital camera. 

These are a few of pictures from NY I found.  The one is of the Statue of Liberty, another taken from the top of the Empire State Building, showing the World Trade Centers, and the last one was taken while visiting the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. You can also see the World Trade Centers on that picture. I also have pictures that were taken when all the flowers and memorials were near the little church near where the Twin World Trade Towers were.  I will keep looking for the ďNaked CowboyĒ pictures.

Norma

I have been thinking about the pizzas I had at Kesteís.  As I posted before they were so much different than any other pizzas I have tasted.  They were billowy and something like a pillow.  The crust wasnít crisp on the bottom.  I couldnít taste the char, from the pizzas being baked in the oven.  As I also posted before the crust had an amazing taste.  The slices were foldable.  I am wondering if anyone else has noticed this if they have been to Kesteís or even if someone has made pizza like Kesteís or maybe tried some pizzas like this in Italy.  It makes me wonder if this is how some pizzas taste in Italy.  I havenít ever been there, so I have no idea of how pizzas taste in Italy.  If anyone knows, I would appreciate their comments.

Pictures below

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 26, 2010, 08:08:15 PM
Hi Norma,
I just checked back in on your day in NY story.  I grew up there and was a NYC fireman near Canal Street many years ago.  The reason I have been making pizza for thirty years is I could never get a decent pie anywhere I lived.  Your pictures brought back memories.  Thanks! 
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 26, 2010, 08:49:50 PM
Hi Norma,
I just checked back in on your day in NY story.  I grew up there and was a NYC fireman near Canal Street many years ago.  The reason I have been making pizza for thirty years is I could never get a decent pie anywhere I lived.  Your pictures brought back memories.  Thanks! 


Cranky,

Wow, I didnít know at one time you were one of the bravest and what they called the  ďfinestĒ people of NY.  I bet you could tell a lot of stories about your years of being a member of the FDNY.  I congratulate you on doing a job like that in NY.  :) :chef: I heard all those fire trucks whizzing by with their sirens on.

Itís also interesting you started making pizzas, because you couldnít find any decent pizzas where you lived.  Since you lived in NY awhile ago, do you remember anything about how pizzas were made then?  Were they made with fresh yeast?  I think commercial yeast just came into existence not too many years ago for making pizzas.  I also wonder how you remember previous pizzas, from the time you lived in NY.  Do you remember what the best pizzerias were to buy pizzas when you lived in NYC?

Glad to hear I bought back memories for you.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 26, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
I donít really know if Roberto Caporuscio uses fresh yeast in his pizza dough, but think he might use olive oil in his pizza dough, by this post at Slice http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/07/how-to-make-neapolitan-pizza-crust-from-keste-pizzeria-vino-nyc-manhattan-roberto-caporuscio.html and maybe fresh yeast from this article http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/123063-keste-pizza-vino-271-bleecker-st/   In this second article people discuss different ways they like Robertoís pies.

It still intrigues me how soft Robertoís pizza was at Kesteís last week.  Does anyone know if Roberto uses fresh yeast in his dough?  The taste of the crust was just right in my opinion.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 26, 2010, 11:38:56 PM
Cranky,

Wow, I didnít know at one time you were one of the bravest and what they called the  ďfinestĒ people of NY.


For accuracy's sake, the NYC cops are called the Finest and the firemen are the Bravest.  I can tell lots of stories.  It was a great adventure.  When you are in the middle of it you don't realize how unique the situation is, running the streets day and night in the Big Apple, doing things that can't be captured in movies.  I saw some very amazing acts of bravery, comedy and tragedy.  It was one chapter in life that is now past, until I come upon a car wreck, or fire and I feel 21 again. 

 
Quote
Since you lived in NY awhile ago, do you remember anything about how pizzas were made then?  Were they made with fresh yeast?  I think commercial yeast just came into existence not too many years ago for making pizzas.
 

Sorry, I was a pizza eater then, not a maker.  I do remember enjoying watching the pizzas be made.

Quote
I also wonder how you remember previous pizzas, from the time you lived in NY.
 

Are you kidding?  I can still taste them.
Quote
Do you remember what the best pizzerias were to buy pizzas when you lived in NYC?

I grew up on Staten Island in the 50s.  There was no bad pizza then.  It was all NY style.  I remember Deninos, Polizanos, Joe and Pats, Nunzios, The Surf Club, Pal Joeys, on SI.  There was a guy named Benny who had a few places.  He was always moving.  His final place was in Stapleton on Broad Street or Canal.  He did not even have a sign outside.  In Brooklyn it was Queen Pizza near Borrough Hall, and a place in Bay Ridge that was great and a guy in Coney Island who had a coal fired oven.  In Manhatten it was Goldfarb's (no kidding).  But there were lots of good places.

Here is an FDNY pizza story.  One night we were returning from a fire.  I worked in Man.  The Lieutenant wanted a pizza from a place in Bklyn near where he used to work.  He had us drive over the Bklyn Bridge, breaking all regulations, figuring if there was a fire we would hear it on the radio.  We got in an accident with a beer truck and it was our fault.  The driver was a fireman from NJ moonlighting.  He said if the cops came and filed a report he would be fired.  We went back to the firehouse and spray painted the bumper.

Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 12:08:13 AM
Cranky,

I will always call you the ďbravestĒ and the ďfinestĒ, because you put your life for others to help keep them safe.  ;D I know the NY police are called ďfinestĒ because they do protect, also.  I really donít care about accuracy. 

I loved your story you told about when you were a fireman.  :-D  I had to almost fall off my chair laughing.  That was really a good story.  Did you ever get the pizza?  I am sure you have many more stories to tell.

Good to hear you do remember all the previous pizza you ate.  I guess most of them arenít in business anymore.  That Goldfarb name for a pizza business is interesting. 

Thanks for the laugh and all the other information you gave.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 27, 2010, 07:36:26 AM
I donít really know if Roberto Caporuscio uses fresh yeast in his pizza dough, but think he might use olive oil in his pizza dough, by this post at Slice http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/07/how-to-make-neapolitan-pizza-crust-from-keste-pizzeria-vino-nyc-manhattan-roberto-caporuscio.html and maybe fresh yeast from this article http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/123063-keste-pizza-vino-271-bleecker-st/   In this second article people discuss different ways they like Robertoís pies.

Norma, that article on Slice focuses on how the home pizza maker can make Keste-ish pizza in a standard pizza oven. Caputo 00 pizzeria flour does not fare too well when cooked at the 500 to 550įF temps most kitchen ovens max out at. Olive oil in the dough can assist in this regard.

For pizzas made in shop, Keste is using fresh yeast and is not using olive oil in their dough.

Quote
It still intrigues me how soft Robertoís pizza was at Kesteís last week.  Does anyone know if Roberto uses fresh yeast in his dough?  The taste of the crust was just right in my opinion.

Norma

His crusts are indeed soft. The flour itself plays a role in that, but the mixing, kneading, fermentation, handling and method of cooking are critical as well.

Glad you got to Keste, which I feel is among the best Neapolitan pizza I have yet to try. Motorino is slightly different, with the crust having more of an outer snap and more prominent char, but is also quite delicious as well. As far as crust flavor, I am lamenting how far I have to travel to taste Mangieri's pizzas again.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 08:20:37 AM
pizzablogger,

I thought that Kesteís wouldnít use olive oil in their dough.  Thanks for confirming that the article on Slice was just for home pizza makers.  Thanks for also confirming that Kesteís does use fresh yeast in their dough.  I wonder what kind of fresh yeast Kesteís uses.  I have access to fresh yeast from my distributor, but I would need to buy 24 1 lb. blocks. It is only 22.00 to purchase 24 1 lb. blocks. I donít know if the fresh yeast could be frozen or not, but my distributor said customers do freeze the fresh yeast, but they donít recommend that.  I am going to try and purchase some fresh yeast from one of the bakeries at market, if one of them still uses fresh yeast.  I know the shelf life of fresh yeast is usually only around 2 weeks.  Since reading different posts here on the forum, I think fresh yeast does give better gas formation in pizza dough.

I can still taste exactly how Kesteís pizza was, when I ate it last week.  It is still haunting me how wonderful those pies were.  I see some people did post on the other link I provided that the crust became soggy, but the pies I had werenít that way at all. 

I understand that Caputo flour in any form should be baked in a higher temperature oven. I have used Caputo flour in my friends Steveís (Ev) oven and can see the difference between my deck oven and Steveís WFO.  I might try a blend of Caputo with KASL and try to turn my deck oven up in temperature, if I get some fresh yeast. 

I also can understand that mixing, kneading, fermentation, and handling all come into play when making any dough.

When I get to visit NY again I will try to make it to Motorinoís.  Their pizza sounds delicious, too.  I also want to visit Kesteís again.

I know I will never get to try Mangieri's pies. Hope you get to go to San Francisco to eat his pies again.

Thanks for your help,  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 08:27:51 AM
Norma, supermarkets in england give fresh yeast away for free from their bakery departments  so maybe if you only want to try a small amount the supermarkets near you might do the same?

Paul
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 08:43:47 AM
Norma, supermarkets in england give fresh yeast away for free from their bakery departments  so maybe if you only want to try a small amount the supermarkets near you might do the same?

Paul

Paul,

It may be different where Norma is but in the U.S. most supermarkets in major markets that bake things receive the dough pre-prepared from commissaries. Some supermarkets do make dough from scratch but the one near me that does uses dry yeast, not fresh yeast. The pizza operators in the U.S who use fresh yeast are almost always volume producers. For them, fresh yeast is the cheapest form of yeast. Fresh yeast has a short shelf live so it can't be held for long before it starts to go downhill.

Peter
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 08:54:10 AM
Thanks Peter, when I worked in a family bakery they made me work for a week in a supermarket bakery to see how things were done in a different style of bakery, at the supermarket they got in sacks of flour that had all the dough conditioners etc etc already in, all we had  to do was dump the sack into the mixer and add the recommended yeast and water amount and turn that bad boy on to mix. I think most UK supermarkets do it the same way.

The family bakery where I worked used only fresh yeast for both their warm and cold rise doughs. We had problems with the yeast not being fresh enough at times.

Paul
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 09:31:57 AM
Paul,

The kind of yeast I can purchase at my local supermarkets is cake yeast, but that isnít the same as fresh yeast.  I am not sure if some of the bakeries at market still use fresh yeast or not, but I am friends with them, so I can ask.  Some of them also have stores and do bake their own bread.  I donít think any of my local supermarkets still baked their baked goods with fresh yeast, as Peter stated above.

At least you have a understanding how to use fresh yeast if you ever want to try fresh yeast in a test pizza dough. Since you have worked in a bakery, you could try some with your flour is you want.  I can understand there can be problems with fresh yeast not being fresh enough.  Good to know that fresh yeast can be used in cold fermented and room temperature fermented doughs.  If I can get my hands on some fresh yeast, I was also thinking about trying the fresh yeast with the flour you sent me.

Thanks for your help,

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 09:46:36 AM
No problem Norma. I hope you get to try cake/fresh very soon.
Paul

*Norma, I just did a Google image search and cake yeast looks the same as the fresh yeast we get in England. What is the difference? I don't think cake yeast is available over here.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 09:56:58 AM
The kind of yeast I can purchase at my local supermarkets are cake yeast, but that isnít the same as fresh yeast.

Norma,

Unless I misunderstood your comment, cake yeast sold in supermarkets is fresh yeast. It may not be the same as what bakers might order in bricks, and may not be quite as fresh, but the two forms of yeast are the same.

Peter
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 10:04:31 AM
*Norma, I just did a Google image search and cake yeast looks the same as the fresh yeast we get in England. What is the difference? I don't think cake yeast is available over here.

Paul and Norma,

See http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6179&p=38688&hilit=#p38682. Tom perhaps should have added cake yeast to his list. It was perhaps an oversight. Red Star makes the connection at http://www.redstaryeast.com/lessons/yeast_types__usage/cake_yeast.php.

Peter
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 10:11:45 AM
Thanks for clearing that up Peter.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 27, 2010, 12:23:44 PM
Norma,

Glad you liked the fire story.  You don't want to encourage firemen storytelling.  There is lots of laughter as well as grief in the job.  I think the propensity to create humor is probably a way of coping or dealing with involvement in tragedy.   There were guys who were genius at creating practical jokes.  It was an outlet.  My daughter is a high risk labor delivery nurse and on bad days she goes home and hugs her little boys until they tell her to stop.   

I have used dry yeast, cake yeast, sourdough, and dry yeast with sourdough to make pizza dough.  The cake yeast turns out the best crusts.  I bought it in small quantity at a local supermarket and it cost a lot.  Second best is dry yeast in very small quantities with long fermentations.  Maybe sourdough starters would be also good if they were managed properly, but that is beyond my skill.  Bake shops can pay attention to their leavens and starters every day.  The home baker can't.   

I don't know anything about how fresh or cake yeast is prepared, but would guess it is the same organism that is in dry yeast.  What I wonder is if it is possible to grow yeast from dry, and make your own fresh.  If that is the case, and it is not too much trouble, a home baker could do that and use it and be done with it and not have to worry about managing starter every day. 

The other thing I wonder is if cake or fresh yeast has such a short life, how can they sell it in supermarkets where it surely sits for weeks or months in the distribution channels and on the store shelf and at home before it is used.  There must be a way they keep it vital.


Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PizzaHog on November 27, 2010, 12:33:09 PM
Great post Norma!  I finally had time to read thru it all and look at all the pics.  Dang, now my stomach is growling and I am remembering my last visit there which was too long ago.
I was blown away by Motorino back then and now Keste's is a must visit for my next trip, plus at least one steak on a stick or two.
Thanks for sharing!
Hog
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 27, 2010, 12:52:44 PM


The other thing I wonder is if cake or fresh yeast has such a short life, how can they sell it in supermarkets where it surely sits for weeks or months in the distribution channels and on the store shelf and at home before it is used.  There must be a way they keep it vital.

Speaking only from my local experiences here in Baltimore, the only places which sell fresh cake yeast do daily baking inside the store. The fresh cake yeast itself is not an "on the shelf" item, but something one has to ask for at the bakery counter....and you can only get it if there is enough left over after satisfying that day's in store baking schedule. So the yeast being sold to an individual is usually no older than a day or two.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 27, 2010, 01:00:46 PM
With much of the Neapolitan focus in NYC on Keste, Motorino EV and Paulie Gee's, the word about Donatella has yet to really hit hard. Three friends who have eaten Neapolitan pizza all over the place have now individually been there and all three say Donatella is now their favorite Neapolitan pizza in NYC. Interesting.

I have a few upcoming trips to NYC and am eager to try Donatella. But an entire day devoted to just visiting NYstyle pizza joints comes first.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 03:49:51 PM
Paul and Norma,

See http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6179&p=38688&hilit=#p38682. Tom perhaps should have added cake yeast to his list. It was perhaps an oversight. Red Star makes the connection at http://www.redstaryeast.com/lessons/yeast_types__usage/cake_yeast.php.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for clearing up that fresh yeast is the same as brick yeast, compressed yeast and cake yeast.  I somehow thought that commercial brick yeast was different.  I have access to Fleichmann's cake yeast at the supermarket, so I guess I could give that a try.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 04:03:54 PM
Norma,

Glad you liked the fire story.  You don't want to encourage firemen storytelling.  There is lots of laughter as well as grief in the job.  I think the propensity to create humor is probably a way of coping or dealing with involvement in tragedy.   There were guys who were genius at creating practical jokes.  It was an outlet.  My daughter is a high risk labor delivery nurse and on bad days she goes home and hugs her little boys until they tell her to stop.   

I have used dry yeast, cake yeast, sourdough, and dry yeast with sourdough to make pizza dough.  The cake yeast turns out the best crusts.  I bought it in small quantity at a local supermarket and it cost a lot.  Second best is dry yeast in very small quantities with long fermentations.  Maybe sourdough starters would be also good if they were managed properly, but that is beyond my skill.  Bake shops can pay attention to their leavens and starters every day.  The home baker can't.   

I don't know anything about how fresh or cake yeast is prepared, but would guess it is the same organism that is in dry yeast.  What I wonder is if it is possible to grow yeast from dry, and make your own fresh.  If that is the case, and it is not too much trouble, a home baker could do that and use it and be done with it and not have to worry about managing starter every day. 

The other thing I wonder is if cake or fresh yeast has such a short life, how can they sell it in supermarkets where it surely sits for weeks or months in the distribution channels and on the store shelf and at home before it is used.  There must be a way they keep it vital.




Cranky,

I can only imagine how much grief there is while being a fireman.  I can also believe creating humor would be a way of dealing with being involved in tragedy. 

I have also used ADY, IDY, different sourdoughs, but not too much cake yeast. I think I only did one experiment with cake yeast and didnít let that dough ferment long enough.  Right now I like the flavors of using natural starters, but will experiment more with cake yeast to see what kind of results I can achieve.  Natural starters really arenít that hard to use.  The dough just has to be watched over time.  Good to hear you had good results using cake yeast. I really donít know how cake yeast, brick yeast, or compressed yeast is prepared either.  I might have to study that more.

The cake yeast I can buy in our local supermarkets do have a shelf date, which isnít too long, but I also wonder how it can stay fresh and when the optimal time to use cake yeast is.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 04:06:49 PM
Great post Norma!  I finally had time to read thru it all and look at all the pics.  Dang, now my stomach is growling and I am remembering my last visit there which was too long ago.
I was blown away by Motorino back then and now Keste's is a must visit for my next trip, plus at least one steak on a stick or two.
Thanks for sharing!
Hog


Hog,

Glad you enjoyed the posts.  :)  I would like to try Motorino's pizza.  Those steaks on a stick are good.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 04:10:35 PM
With much of the Neapolitan focus in NYC on Keste, Motorino EV and Paulie Gee's, the word about Donatella has yet to really hit hard. Three friends who have eaten Neapolitan pizza all over the place have now individually been there and all three say Donatella is now their favorite Neapolitan pizza in NYC. Interesting.

I have a few upcoming trips to NYC and am eager to try Donatella. But an entire day devoted to just visiting NYstyle pizza joints comes first.

pizzablogger,

That is interesting that three of your friends have eaten at Donatellaís and found their pizza to be the best Neapolitan, in NYC.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 27, 2010, 04:56:16 PM
Cranky,

   Right now I like the flavors of using natural starters, but will experiment more with cake yeast to see what kind of results I can achieve.  Natural starters really arenít that hard to use.  The dough just has to be watched over time.   Norma

How do you manage your starter and prepare the leaven?
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 06:09:10 PM
Cranky,

I did use the Ischia starter for awhile after I had activated it.  The Ischia starter was then fed until it looked active enough to be made into a poolish.  If you are interested in looking at the thread where I used the Ischia starter this is the thread to see what I did. Near the end of the thread is where I was having the best results using the Ischia starter. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11700.0.html 
                           
Right now I am using the milk kefir poolish in a Lehmann dough.  If you are interested in those experiments the thread is http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12173.0.html  The best results are also near the end of that thread, also.  I am now trying to get the crust to brown more, as of this week. The milk kefir is a little more complicated than using the Ischia starter, but you can also use the milk kefir to drink.  Milk kefir is supposed to be high in probiotics.  I am also experimenting when the best time to use the milk kefir in a poolish is.  Milk kefir can be used to leaven pizza dough, bread or bagels.  The milk kefir grains are fed milk.  If you want to know more about either of these threads you can post under the last posts and I would be happy to answer your questions.

I like a naturally leavened dough better than the Preferment Lehmann dough I now use at market.  The Preferment Lehmann dough also uses a poolish.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 07:04:48 PM
Norma, picture 100.jpg that you took from the Empire State reminds me so much of my time in NY so thank you! some amazing deli's around the Empire State building too.

Paul
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 07:13:18 PM
Norma, picture 100.jpg that you took from the Empire State reminds me so much of my time in NY so thank you! some amazing deli's around the Empire State building too.

Paul

Paul,

I am glad that the picture from the top of the Empire State Building does remind you of the time you spent in NY.  I have so many pictures that were taken from other trips to NY.  I didnít know anything from making pizza back then.  I just ate slices or whole pies different times I visited NY.   :-D

I have tried different foods in NY and most of them were good.  Good to hear you liked the Deliís around the Empire State Building.  What was the most memorable food you ate in NY?

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 07:20:22 PM
Paul,

I am glad that the picture from the top of the Empire State Building does remind you of the time you spent in NY.  I have so many pictures that were taken from other trips to NY.  I didn't know anything from making pizza back then.  I just ate slices or whole pies different times I visited NY.   :-D

I have tried different foods in NY and most of them were good.  Good to hear you liked the Deli’s around the Empire State Building.  What was the most memorable food you ate in NY?

Norma

Pigs intestines in China town! lol
Was......strange...

I have a picture of when my wife and I met Sly Stallone @ a book signing on 5th AVE, I will post it here when I find it......that was a better memory than the pigs guts...  ;D
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 07:48:54 PM
Pigs intestines in China town! lol
Was......strange...

I have a picture of when my wife and I met Sly Stallone @ a book signing on 5th AVE, I will post it here when I find it......that was a better memory than the pigs guts...  ;D


Paul,

Pigs intestine in Chinatown is funny!  :-D  I have never eaten pigs intestines, but in our area we do make pigs stomach filled with hamburg, sausage, potatoes, celery, and onions.  It is good.  At market they do sell many things related to pigs, but not intestines.

Here are few more pictures that are on my computer, from past visits to NY.  I have so many, it would take me too long to post them all.   :-D  If you find the picture of when you and your wife met Sly Stallone, I would like to see it. 

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 07:52:41 PM
a few more pictures

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 07:56:19 PM
Amazing pictures Norma, your dinner sounds a bit like haggis, have you tried that?

Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 08:00:11 PM
Amazing pictures Norma, your dinner sounds a bit like haggis, have you tried that?



Thanks for saying you liked the pictures.  I have many more on my computer and also ones that I would have to scan into my computer.

I don't know what haggis is.  Could you explain what it is?

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: PaulsPizza on November 27, 2010, 08:02:04 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haggis enjoy. lol
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 08:07:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haggis enjoy. lol

Paul,

I did enjoy reading about haggis.  It sounds something like Hog Maw (Pigs Stomach), but a little different.  People in our area do eat souse and pigs feet, too, but not me.   :-D

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 27, 2010, 10:01:04 PM
Paul,

I did enjoy reading about haggis.  It sounds something like Hog Maw (Pigs Stomach), but a little different.  People in our area do eat souse and pigs feet, too, but not me.   :-D

Norma

Norma,
I knew you were much too civilized to eat hillbilly vittles.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 10:04:35 PM
Norma,
I knew you were much too civilized to eat hillbilly vittles.

Cranky,

I am not that civilized.   :-D  I do eat Hog Maw and now drink milk kefir, even if it sits out for a week.  At least so far nothing has made me sick.  I prefer pizza though.  :angel:

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 27, 2010, 10:18:05 PM
Cranky,

I am not that civilized.   :-D  I do eat Hog Maw and now drink milk kefir, even if it sits out for a week.  At least so far nothing has made me sick.  I prefer pizza though.  :angel:

Norma

Norma,
Kefir is a delicacy.  Hog Maw on the other hand is something you should not admit to eating in polite company, especially when you visit NY.  NYers will look down on you and think the barbarians have invaded.  Some things like this are best kept secret. 


Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 10:27:53 PM
Norma,
Kefir is a delicacy.  Hog Maw on the other hand is something you should not admit to eating in polite company, especially when you visit NY.  NYers will look down on you and think the barbarians have invaded.  Some things like this are best kept secret. 




Cranky,

I didn't know milk kefir was a delicacy. I am Pa. Dutch and that is the kind of food people eat in our area.  I have eaten many different things in my life and I am not ashamed of trying different foods.  One time when I went to Smithsonian Institute, I ate fried grasshoppers dipped in chocolate.  If NY people look down on what I eat, it doesn't matter to me.  I have developed a tough skin.  I wonder how fried grasshoppers would taste on a pizza.  :-D

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 27, 2010, 10:38:34 PM
Cranky,
   I have developed a tough skin.  I wonder how fried grasshoppers would taste on a pizza.  :-D

Norma

Probably like chicken.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 27, 2010, 10:40:51 PM
Probably like chicken.

Cranky,

You are probably right.  :)  I forget at this time, how they tasted.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 27, 2010, 11:32:06 PM
Cranky,

You are probably right.  :)  I forget at this time, how they tasted.

Norma

I wouldn't put chicken on pizza either.  No bugs or birds.  Pig is good, but it has to be civilized pig, like pepperoni and Italian sausage.  No hog maw.   
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 28, 2010, 06:20:43 AM
Pig cheeks (guanciale) have gained some popularity as a pizza topping.....although I'm curious how chocolate lab or rottweiler would work as well >:D
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 28, 2010, 07:39:38 AM
I wouldn't put chicken on pizza either.  No bugs or birds.  Pig is good, but it has to be civilized pig, like pepperoni and Italian sausage.  No hog maw.   

Cranky,

This is what Hog Maw looks like.  A nice crispy skin and delicious ingredients inside.  ;D http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4138603398/   Now donít you think those insides of the Hog Maw would go great on a topping for pizza?  People use sausage, hamburg, onions, bacon and celery on pizzas, so why not Hog Maw. The crispy pig stomach skin tastes like bacon.  Donít you even like any kind of chicken on a pizza?  I really like Buffalo Chicken Pizza.  That is one of my favorites.  I have made Buffalo Chicken pizza with Frankís Hot Sauce many times.  Maybe I can persuade you to try different dressings on a pizza.   :-D

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 28, 2010, 07:41:30 AM
Pig cheeks (guanciale) have gained some popularity as a pizza topping.....although I'm curious how chocolate lab or rottweiler would work as well >:D



pizzablogger,

Pig cheeks sound good to me to try on a pizza.  ;D  Here is a picture of a pizza made with clams, pig cheeks and tongue.  http://www.alwayshungryny.com/reviews/frannys/   That pie looks very appetizing to me.  I like clams, and tongue, so why not pig cheeks, too.  My father and I used to eat tongue luncheon meat all the time.  Never tried this combination on a pizza though.  You do come up with interesting combinations for dressings on a pizza.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 28, 2010, 09:01:47 AM
Cranky,

This is what Hog Maw looks like.  A nice crispy skin and delicious ingredients inside.  ;D http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4138603398/   Now donít you think those insides of the Hog Maw would go great on a topping for pizza?  People use sausage, hamburg, onions, bacon and celery on pizzas, so why not Hog Maw. The crispy pig stomach skin tastes like bacon.  Donít you even like any kind of chicken on a pizza?  I really like Buffalo Chicken Pizza.  That is one of my favorites.  I have made Buffalo Chicken pizza with Frankís Hot Sauce many times.  Maybe I can persuade you to try different dressings on a pizza.   :-D

Norma

Dear Norma,

Most people when they get old get set in their ways.  There is a right way to do everything and a wrong way, even though there often isn't.   Remember that I said I grew up in NYC in the 50s and started making pizza, because I could not buy a good pizza where I moved.  So driven by nostalgia I am searching to recreate my youth.  We won't discuss anything here about my youth other than the pizza I longed for.  Bacon, celery, onion and hamburger have no place on my pizza, neither does Canadian bacon, pineapple, bbq chicken, bbq sauce, bell pepper, or kale.  Why not put rutabagas and cabbage, peas and carrots on top?  Good grief!  My wife and I went on vacation a few years ago to an island in the Caribbean.  Everyone said we had to try the conch pizza.  We did, and controlling my gag reflex in the restaurant was challenging.  That was and will be a last.  Never again.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.  If you have found perfection there is no point in changing anything.  Perfection is always simple.  All you really need is great crust, tomatoes and cheese, a little olive oil, oregano and basil.  If those things go together right it is done.  Toppings are an attempt to make up for messing up the basics.  By the way, my favorite ice cream is vanilla.   Regarding the right and wrong of it, nostalgia rules for old guys. 


Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 28, 2010, 09:27:01 AM
Dear Norma,

Most people when they get old get set in their ways.  There is a right way to do everything and a wrong way, even though there often isn't.   Remember that I said I grew up in NYC in the 50s and started making pizza, because I could not buy a good pizza where I moved.  So driven by nostalgia I am searching to recreate my youth.  We won't discuss anything here about my youth other than the pizza I longed for.  Bacon, celery, onion and hamburger have no place on my pizza, neither does Canadian bacon, pineapple, bbq chicken, bbq sauce, bell pepper, or kale.  Why not put rutabagas and cabbage, peas and carrots on top?  Good grief!  My wife and I went on vacation a few years ago to an island in the Caribbean.  Everyone said we had to try the conch pizza.  We did, and controlling my gag reflex in the restaurant was challenging.  That was and will be a last.  Never again.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.  If you have found perfection there is no point in changing anything.  Perfection is always simple.  All you really need is great crust, tomatoes and cheese, a little olive oil, oregano and basil.  If those things go together right it is done.  Toppings are an attempt to make up for messing up the basics.  By the way, my favorite ice cream is vanilla.   Regarding the right and wrong of it, nostalgia rules for old guys. 



Cranky, my friend,

I am older too, but I would try almost anything on a pizza.  I like to be adventurous.  I am not set in my ways.  It is a good thing, that driven by your nostalgia, you are searching for your youth.  That is great in my opinion.  I also vacationed in the Caribbean different times years ago, and I did like Conch, but didnít try it on a pizza.  I still have a Conch shell I brought back from one of those visits.  I donít think there is any right or wrong toppings on a pizza.  It is up to each individual what he or she likes.  I also like a simple pizza with plain cheese and sauce as dressings.  The first pizza I ate at Kesteís was delicious.  That pizza did have the basic toppings, but the toppings were top notch in my opinion.

I am glad you found perfection in creating your pizzas.  :)  Did you ever get to try Les's sauce?  That is a simple pizza sauce that does have good flavor.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 28, 2010, 10:38:25 AM
Cranky, my friend,

I am older too, but I would try almost anything on a pizza.  I like to be adventurous.  I am not set in my ways. 

Back to pizza perfection.  For some people it is something in memory and for others it is sometihng they have not yet found.  That is the difference between the pizza nostalgic and the adventurous.  Either way its fun.   


Quote
It is a good thing, that driven by your nostalgia, you are searching for your youth.  That is great in my opinion.  I also vacationed in the Caribbean different times years ago, and I did like Conch, but didnít try it on a pizza.  I still have a Conch shell I brought back from one of those visits.
 

I stopped at a roadside stand where a guy was making conch salad.  It might have been the best tasting thing I ever ate in my life.  There was a line of local school kids waiting for his work.  All he sold was conch salad.  His stand was a homemade little table covered by a beach umbrella.  His ingredients were in buckets.  He stood there chopping away.  He charged the kids $2 and me 8.  I gave him 10.  Nostalgia says this guy reached perfection.  The conch pizza is another story.

Quote
I donít think there is any right or wrong toppings on a pizza.  It is up to each individual what he or she likes.


Sure!  We know what we like.  After I moved to Oregon and could not gag down the pizza, people I knew moved back to NJ.  After a year they came back to visit family.  I asked them how they liked living in NJ.  They said it was fine, but the one thing they missed most about OR was pizza.  People in NJ just don't make good pizza.  Wow!

Quote
I am glad you found perfection in creating your pizzas.  :) 


It's all in my head.  I am not trying to make something new.  I am trying to remake a memory.  My kids, now hitting middle age, and grandkid's pizza memories are being shaped by the smells, flavors, and fun of being at Papa and Nana's house eating my pizza.  Wherever they go it is not as good as Papa's.  Everyone's mother or grandmother made the best turkey stuffing, lasagna, stuffed cabbage.

Quote
Did you ever get to try Les's sauce?  That is a simple pizza sauce that does have good flavor.

Norma

[

Not yet, but I will.  Been pretty busy at work to find time for cooking.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 28, 2010, 11:21:25 AM
Cranky,

I agree with you about pizza perfection.  You are right when you posted that for some people it is about memory or other have found what they really like in pizzas.  I am still on the adventure trying to learn about different flavors in the crust.  That is why I do experiments.  I donít think I will ever be able to make my perfect crust, but I will keep trying.  In my opinion the most important thing to me is the crust flavor.  Others might disagree with me on my thoughts, but that is okay with me. 

Good to hear you did really like conch salad. I also believe the guy that was making the conch salad had reached perfection.

I am glad your grandchildren are learning from you what a really good pizza is.  I am sure they wonít ever forget the smells, flavors, and the fun of being at Papa and Nanaís house for pizza.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 28, 2010, 04:25:33 PM
Cranky,

   I am still on the adventure trying to learn about different flavors in the crust.  That is why I do experiments.  I donít think I will ever be able to make my perfect crust, but I will keep trying.  In my opinion the most important thing to me is the crust flavor.  Others might disagree with me on my thoughts, but that is okay with me. 

 Norma

Pizza and pizza crust are kind of like wine.  There is no definition of the standard or ideal.  When you open a Coke, or can of V8 juice you know exactly what to expect.  It never varies.

How could I know what is the best pizza if I haven't tried them all?  So I never will.  My guess is that the best pizza is made in someone's home, maybe someone on this forum and only a relatively few people have tried it.  That person would not know their crust is the best, because they haven't tried all the others.   I rarely go out for pizza, because it is usually a disappointment, even when I am back in my home turf.  I surely don't make the best pizza in the country, but it is way better than average.  We keep learning, but at some point what we make is good enough.  Pizza is simple peasant food.  I am willing to grow my own tomatoes, but not willing to pay a fortune to ship a sack of flour across the country, or spend too much for tomatoes from Italy.  I might make fresh mozz, but will not buy bufalo from Italy.  I can afford that stuff, but pizza is pizza for goodness sake. 


Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 28, 2010, 06:40:04 PM
Pizza and pizza crust are kind of like wine.  There is no definition of the standard or ideal.  When you open a Coke, or can of V8 juice you know exactly what to expect.  It never varies.

How could I know what is the best pizza if I haven't tried them all?  So I never will.  My guess is that the best pizza is made in someone's home, maybe someone on this forum and only a relatively few people have tried it.  That person would not know their crust is the best, because they haven't tried all the others.   I rarely go out for pizza, because it is usually a disappointment, even when I am back in my home turf.  I surely don't make the best pizza in the country, but it is way better than average.  We keep learning, but at some point what we make is good enough.  Pizza is simple peasant food.  I am willing to grow my own tomatoes, but not willing to pay a fortune to ship a sack of flour across the country, or spend too much for tomatoes from Italy.  I might make fresh mozz, but will not buy bufalo from Italy.  I can afford that stuff, but pizza is pizza for goodness sake. 




Cranky,

I never will try all the pizzas either and am sure some of the forum members make better pizzas, than any that can be bought.  There many great pizza makers on this forum. I have tasted pizza baked in my friends WFO and they do taste different than any of my pizzas.  When I tasted the pizzas at Kesteís, they were the best pizzas I have ever tasted.  Other people that have also tasted Kesteís pizza might not agree with my tastes.  Everyone has their own tastes.  I donít think there is a wealth of information about making every kind of pizza anywhere in the world, except here on this forum.

I donít think I will ever stop learning about pizzas.  When I started experimenting with starters and then bread from the Tartine Bread book and eventually bagels, it opened my eyes and taste buds to a new level.  I havenít been on this pizza making journey for a long while, but can now see how bread making and pizza making almost go hand in hand or maybe they are one in the same.  I still havenít figured that out.  To watch how pizza dough leavens with a starter was something I wanted to do for awhile, but I didnít understand enough about starters to try them before.  I know pizza is peasant food and the way people years ago leavened pizza is different than most places leaven pizza doughs today.  I havenít tasted any pizzas from Italy, but could imagine when I was eating Kesteís pizza, it was something like I would be able to taste in Italy. I could be very wrong.  I am not an expert, this was just my opinion, because of what I have read about different pizzas in Italy. 

I appreciate all of your opinions.  :) I am always open to everyones opinions.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Jet_deck on November 28, 2010, 11:26:55 PM
  When I tasted the pizzas at Kesteís, they were the best pizzas I have ever tasted.  Norma

Norma, was it the taste of the toppings, taste of the dough, or texture of the pizza that made it the best you had ever had?  Thanks again for this post.
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 28, 2010, 11:45:42 PM
Norma, was it the taste of the toppings, taste of the dough, or texture of the pizza that made it the best you had ever had?  Thanks again for this post.


Jet_deck,

The taste of Kesteís pizza with the toppings were really good, in my opinion.  I usually taste a crust first, before I eat any of the pizza with toppings.  I really donít know if it was Kesteís formula for his dough, or how the dough in combination with the wood fired oven is what made me like the taste of the crust.  The pizzas baked very fast.  The crust was so airy and like a pillow.  I canít really explain it in the right words.  That is why I posted Kesteís was the best pizza I have ever eaten. 
I am not an expert though on pizzas. I haven't tasted any other Wood-Fired Oven pizzas from a commercial pizza business before.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: cranky on November 29, 2010, 06:33:48 AM
Cranky,

I never will try all the pizzas either and am sure some of the forum members make better pizzas, than any that can be bought.  There many great pizza makers on this forum. I have tasted pizza baked in my friends WFO and they do taste different than any of my pizzas.    

I wonder if it is temperature or the radiant heat from the wood coals.   Long ago my uncles told me that the best pizza they ever had in NYC was from coal fired ovens.  By the time I came along there might have been a couple left.  The guy who was left in Coney Island with a coal oven made what we now know as a Margherita, but then it was just another pizza.  He dealt out slices of fresh mozz.  There were also places that had giant balls of mozz in glass display refrigerators.  They did not buy pregrated plastic packages.  I don't know where that cheese came from.  The balls had to have been 3 or 4 lbs each.  They were considerably bigger than soft balls, maybe 2X, and not uniform in size.  One of the best pizza makers I knew told me he used only "real" cheese, not the cheap stuff.  He used those giant balls.  I don't know what he meant by that, but I never saw those balls in the store.  They must have been made by a small local maker.

Natural leaven is a big deal, but I don't know if a home baker can manage it well.  I for sure can't.   

My best pizza was made with a combination of aged and fresh cheese.  Flour is the same year round.  The flesh of garden tomatoes and home grown basil was the difference, because my winter and summer pizza are very different.  A commercial pizzeria can't turn out high volume with these ingredients even if they were not seasonal.  They have to rely on canned tomatoes of one sort or another.  Prepping fresh tomatoes takes a long time.  I also make my own sausage.  It is better than store bought.  It took years to figure it out.  It also takes a long time and would be cost prohibitive for a pizzeria.
 
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 29, 2010, 09:03:54 AM
I wonder if it is temperature or the radiant heat from the wood coals.   Long ago my uncles told me that the best pizza they ever had in NYC was from coal fired ovens.  By the time I came along there might have been a couple left.  The guy who was left in Coney Island with a coal oven made what we now know as a Margherita, but then it was just another pizza.  He dealt out slices of fresh mozz.  There were also places that had giant balls of mozz in glass display refrigerators.  They did not buy pregrated plastic packages.  I don't know where that cheese came from.  The balls had to have been 3 or 4 lbs each.  They were considerably bigger than soft balls, maybe 2X, and not uniform in size.  One of the best pizza makers I knew told me he used only "real" cheese, not the cheap stuff.  He used those giant balls.  I don't know what he meant by that, but I never saw those balls in the store.  They must have been made by a small local maker.

Natural leaven is a big deal, but I don't know if a home baker can manage it well.  I for sure can't.   

My best pizza was made with a combination of aged and fresh cheese.  Flour is the same year round.  The flesh of garden tomatoes and home grown basil was the difference, because my winter and summer pizza are very different.  A commercial pizzeria can't turn out high volume with these ingredients even if they were not seasonal.  They have to rely on canned tomatoes of one sort or another.  Prepping fresh tomatoes takes a long time.  I also make my own sausage.  It is better than store bought.  It took years to figure it out.  It also takes a long time and would be cost prohibitive for a pizzeria.
 

Cranky,

Although I havenít tasted any other pizza from a pizzeria with a wood-fire oven, I had been waiting for awhile to even taste any pizza from any wood-fire oven.  My pizza making buddy Steve (Ev), built his own wood fired oven this past summer, brick by brick.  He invited me to his home to bake some of my formulas (with starters) and some of his formulas (some with cake yeast) in his wood fired oven.  That is what opened my taste buds and eyes to how a wood-fired oven bakes and makes a pizza taste different.  I had used the one same formula I was experimenting with at market.  If you are interested in seeing the pizzas baked in the wood-fire oven, in how different they look, this is the thread. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11887.0.html  The pizzas baked in Steveís WFO were the best pizzas I tasted until Kesteís.  Steve was kind enough to invite me different times to his home to bring some of my doughs along to try, but different times I was busy.  Steve showed me some pictures of pizzas baked in his wood-fired oven with cake yeast, and although I couldnít taste them, they sure looked delicious.  He is learning how to manage his WFO and also trying different formulas.

I visited Coney Island about 7 years ago, but I wasnít making pizzas then.  If I would have been making pizzas, I sure would have tried Totonnoís http://www.totonnos.com/Aboutus.html    There was a fire at Totonno's in March 2009  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/nyregion/16pizza.html  If I ever visit Coney Island again, I want to taste Totonnoís pies.  Since you have lived in NY, I am sure you already know how long it takes on the train (subway) to get from Manhattan to Coney Island.  It takes a long while in my opinion.  New York City is really big, as you already know.  I wonder if Totonnoís is where your uncle ate some of his best pies. 

I also think many pizza places in NYC went downhill over the years. Your posting about the large mozzarella balls in glass display refrigerators is interesting.  :) I donít know either if mozzarella balls then were made in NYC or shipped from Italy.  Kesteís cheese was also the best cheeses I have ever tasted on any pizza.  The two pizzas I purchased had two different kinds of cheeses on the different pies. I donít buy imported cheese.  I have only tried Grande balls of mozzarella, that were purchased near where I live.  They were about 13.00 for a big tub of smaller balls. 

With all your experience in making pizzas, natural leavening isnít really a big deal. I was helped though this process here on the forum, by many other members. The only thing with natural leavening is letting the dough bulk ferment, then you can cold ferment and if the dough still isnít ready, you can let the dough sit at room temperature again, until it looks ready to use. This is called a 3 stage protocol. You can even let the naturally leavened dough sit at room temperatures until it is ready to bake. It does take some understanding, but I am sure you could use starters in a dough, if you want to try them.  I could send you some dried out starters if you want to try to use them.  I will help you though the process, if you want.  Using natural leavening is the way pizzas were made many years ago, before commercial yeast, even in Italy.

The best pizzerias do use high quality ingredients, which then makes their pizzas better. 

I know you use your fresh from the garden vegetables on your pizzas in the summertime.  I also use my fresh vegetables at home in the summertime.  I also agree that fresh vegetables can make some of best tasting sauces in my opinion.  I have frozen many containers of Lesís sauce, that I made this summer.  Lesís sauce is better in my opinion than any other fresh sauce I can make in the summer. Even out of the freezer Lesís sauce is still very good.

I was reading this blog, posted by Caleb  http://pizzicletta.blogspot.com/2010/11/balance-of-great-neapolitan-pizza.html  If you or anyone else is interested in reading though his blog of his trip on bicycle though Italy, trying different kinds of pizzas and even being at the plant where they mill Caputo flours, http://pizzicletta.blogspot.com/2010/10/my-visit-to-molino-caputo.html anyone can see how he describes eating pizzas he tried. I think to be able to try some the pizzas made in Italy would really be interesting.  In my opinion Caleb does a great job in explaining how pizzas are in Italy.  Caleb is finished with his trip now, but I find how he explained everything in detail, is mouth watering.  ;D

Sorry this post is so long.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: pizzablogger on November 29, 2010, 10:46:01 AM

I want to taste Totonnoís pies.  Since you have lived in NY, I am sure you already know how long it takes on the train (subway) to get from Manhattan to Coney Island.  It takes a long while in my opinion.  New York City is really big, as you already know.  I wonder if Totonnoís is where your uncle ate some of his best pies.

Norma, agreed it takes a long time to take the subway out of Manattan to Coney. One reason it
is good to visit a few places deep in Brooklyn, since you are on the train for over an hour anyway.

The Q Train takes you from Manhattan to the Stillwater Ave (Coney Island) stop, which is a short walk from Totonno's Coney Island. That same train stops earlier at Avenue J, where DiFara is a literal stones throw from the elevated station.

On the way out of the Stillwater Ave/Coney Island stop, you can catch a train which drops you off close to L&B Spumoni Gardens for some good Sicilian and a tasty Spumoni Ice to cap off the pizza eating.

Totonno's is definitely worth a visit. No fancy bells and whistles, just really good, no nonsense coal oven pizza day in and day out. --K
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on November 29, 2010, 11:23:54 AM
Norma, agreed it takes a long time to take the subway out of Manattan to Coney. One reason it
is good to visit a few places deep in Brooklyn, since you are on the train for over an hour anyway.

The Q Train takes you from Manhattan to the Stillwater Ave (Coney Island) stop, which is a short walk from Totonno's Coney Island. That same train stops earlier at Avenue J, where DiFara is a literal stones throw from the elevated station.

On the way out of the Stillwater Ave/Coney Island stop, you can catch a train which drops you off close to L&B Spumoni Gardens for some good Sicilian and a tasty Spumoni Ice to cap off the pizza eating.

Totonno's is definitely worth a visit. No fancy bells and whistles, just really good, no nonsense coal oven pizza day in and day out. --K

pizzablogger,

Thanks for your help and telling me about more pizzerias in NY.  :) I understand the train system, but havenít visited any of the places you mentioned. I will copy your directions for the train, when I can visit some of those pizzerias. I might visit some of the places you mentioned next spring or summer when the weather is warmer.  I have tried many pizzerias in Brooklyn over the years, but canít remember their names.  Some were in the Bed-Stuy area of Brooklyn.  Those pizzas were really good when I tasted them, but now since I make pizza and have tasted Kesteís, I donít know if I would like them as much. 

I never tried any coal oven pizzas, and appreciate your advise on visiting Totonno's.  I would like to try coal oven pizzas. 

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2010, 11:10:33 PM
This was posted on Slice today about Jim Lahey making the kind of pizza my daughter and I tried at Sullivan Street Bakery.  I had really like this Pizza Pomodoro when I tasted it at Sullivan Street Bakery.

This video shows how Pizza Pomodoro is made.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/12/-ready-video-jim-lahey-making-pizza-pomodoro.html

Now to figure out what formula to use for Pizza Pomodoro.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Matthew on December 08, 2010, 06:08:24 AM
This was posted on Slice today about Jim Lahey making the kind of pizza my daughter and I tried at Sullivan Street Bakery.  I had really like this Pizza Pomodoro when I tasted it at Sullivan Street Bakery.

This video shows how Pizza Pomodoro is made.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/12/-ready-video-jim-lahey-making-pizza-pomodoro.html

Now to figure out what formula to use for Pizza Pomodoro.

Norma

Hi Norma,
I'm pretty sure that the formula is in the book.  If I get a chance I'm going to run into Chapter's & pick up a copy.  Because of course, you can never have to many bread books, right ??? ??? ???

Matt
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on December 08, 2010, 07:01:55 AM
Hi Norma,
I'm pretty sure that the formula is in the book.  If I get a chance I'm going to run into Chapter's & pick up a copy.  Because of course, you can never have to many bread books, right ??? ??? ???

Matt


Matt,

You are right that you canít ever have too many books about bread or pizza.  ;D  I just wonder if the real formula is in the book. 

I would be interested in hearing what kind of formula might be in Jim Laheyís book about Pizza Pomodoro.  That pizza was one of the most different pizzas I have ever tasted.  It was thin, but was crunchy on the bottom crust, as I posted first with pictures at Reply 20 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12388.msg117783.html#msg117783 and then again with the slice at Reply 22  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12388.msg117785.html#msg117785 and what my thoughts were about Jim Lahey's pizza at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12388.msg117797.html#msg117797

The crust also had a very good taste. 

From the video posted on Slice, I guess Jim Lahey does use a steel pan to create the Pizza Pomodoro.  The dough does look like a fairly high hydration, but I wonder why the crust had such a good taste.  Maybe if we both work on this, we could find a formula to try. 

Thanks for looking into this kind of pizza.  ;D

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on December 08, 2010, 01:43:03 PM
Matt or anyone else that might be interested.  I think this is the same video on the bottom of the first link, that slice posted.  I donít know if you or anyone else think this is a good starting point or not for a Pizza Pomodoro.

http://www.chewswise.com/chews/2010/01/really-easy-pizza-jim-lahey.html

These are also other links for a Pizza Pomodoro

http://www.lottieanddoof.com/2010/01/pizza-pulp-fiction-jim-lahey/

http://tfl.thefreshloaf.com/node/15877/jim-lahey039s-pizza-patate-quotmy-breadquot

http://rcakewalk.blogspot.com/2010/02/pizza-via-jim-lahey-where-have-you-been.html

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Matthew on December 08, 2010, 04:49:57 PM
Matt or anyone else that might be interested.  I think this is the same video on the bottom of the first link, that slice posted.  I donít know if you or anyone else think this is a good starting point or not for a Pizza Pomodoro.

http://www.chewswise.com/chews/2010/01/really-easy-pizza-jim-lahey.html

These are also other links for a Pizza Pomodoro

http://www.lottieanddoof.com/2010/01/pizza-pulp-fiction-jim-lahey/

http://tfl.thefreshloaf.com/node/15877/jim-lahey039s-pizza-patate-quotmy-breadquot

http://rcakewalk.blogspot.com/2010/02/pizza-via-jim-lahey-where-have-you-been.html

Norma
Norma,
This is the same recipe in his book which I just started to read & is quite good.  When are you going to make the Pizza Pomodoro?

Matt
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on December 08, 2010, 06:27:18 PM
Matt,

I might try to make Pizza Pomodoro over the weekend if you think one of these recipes are good.  I did taste the real Pizza Pomodoro at Sullivan Street Bakery, so I know how they should taste.  Right now I donít have a steel pan, but have a deep-dish pan I could try to use.  I did purchase a 17x1" steel deep-dish pan on Ebay last week to try Greek Pizza, but it hasnít arrived as of today.  The shape of the pan shouldnít matter.  I just would like to be able to create this kind of pie.  I also do have some heavy sheet pans, that I used before for Sicilian pies.  They did work okay. 

The one recipe in the one article is posted in grams. Do you know how to convert the recipe to bakerís percents so it is more accurate. 

Good to hear you purchased the book and you are enjoying reading it.  :) I have always been interested in no knead dough, but never tried any.  Do you have any idea when you might try the
Pizza Pomodoro?  If you try the recipe from your book, what kind of leavening system are you going to try?

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Matthew on December 09, 2010, 05:37:27 AM
Matt,

I might try to make Pizza Pomodoro over the weekend if you think one of these recipes are good.  I did taste the real Pizza Pomodoro at Sullivan Street Bakery, so I know how they should taste.  Right now I donít have a steel pan, but have a deep-dish pan I could try to use.  I did purchase a 17x1" steel deep-dish pan on Ebay last week to try Greek Pizza, but it hasnít arrived as of today.  The shape of the pan shouldnít matter.  I just would like to be able to create this kind of pie.  I also do have some heavy sheet pans, that I used before for Sicilian pies.  They did work okay. 

The one recipe in the one article is posted in grams. Do you know how to convert the recipe to bakerís percents so it is more accurate. 

Good to hear you purchased the book and you are enjoying reading it.  :) I have always been interested in no knead dough, but never tried any.  Do you have any idea when you might try the
Pizza Pomodoro?  If you try the recipe from your book, what kind of leavening system are you going to try?

Norma

Norma,
The Formula is bakers % is as follows:

Flour 100%
Water 60%
IDY 2%
Salt 1%
sugar .6%

I might make some next weekend for my son's birthday party.  I'll probably use fresh yeast, I'm not sure yet.  I am interested in what you think as you have tried the one from his baker.

Matt
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on December 09, 2010, 08:17:25 AM
Matt,

Thanks for figuring out what the formula is in bakerís percents.  :) I still have those darn problems with my math.  I had my oldest daughter trying to help me with math last week.  Maybe one of these days I will get it.   :-D

Great to hear you might try Pizza Pomodoro for your sonís birthday party next weekend.  If you want to start a thread about Pizza Pomodoro, that is okay with me.  I will also go on the journey to try and made a  Pizza Pomodoro. I only tried one slice at Sullivan St. Bakery and if I would have had time to go back before I left NY that day, I sure would have bought more. I know I donít know about every kind of pizza, but that slice I had sure was different than any other pie I ever made.  I really donít know how their bakers got the good flavor in the crust, but I think if we experiment enough, we might be able to recreate the Pizza Pomodoro.  The bottom crust was crunchy when I ate it.  The slice wasnít warmed, when I bought it from the bakery case, so it was just eaten cold, but still was excellent.  I donít know how they kept the crunch when it was cold.  Do you have any ideas on that?  My daughter just had the plain tomato sauce on her slice and also thought it was excellent and she isnít even a pizza freak like me.  I got her to taste my slice and she really liked it, but didnít want to eat too much, because mine had a really garlic taste, and she didnít want to get any stomach upset while in NY.  It is hard to find a bathroom while visiting and walking from place to place.  I also tasted her slice and it was also good, but I liked my slice better with the toppings. The pie really didn't bend, but still was somewhat moist inside. I don't know how their pies can be somewhat moist and still have the bottom crust crunch. Many other customers were coming into the Sullivan St. Bakery and buying many slices of Pizza Pomodoro.  When you look at all the kinds of pies that I posted pictures of, do you know why there are different names for the pies?  Is it the toppings that then give the pies the different names.  I am not good with Italian, so I donít know about that.  All the pies looked like they were about the same thickness factor.  Do you have any idea about what thickness factor to use?

Sullivan St. Bakery probably does use fresh yeast.  It seems to be the easiest way to go about recreating their pie.  I had wanted to purchase some fresh yeast for Paulís flour, but my local store was out of fresh yeast last week.  I might go again and see if they now have some in. 

If I have time this weekend I will give this a try.

Norma
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: Matthew on December 09, 2010, 10:32:22 AM
Norma,

The trick to maintaining a crispy bottom is to remove the pizza from the pan as soon as it's done & immediately place it on a cooling rack.  Jim's pizza's are named after their toppings, the base dough remains the same.  The thickness factor will be .0604.

Good luck!

 
Title: Re: New York for a day-suggestions
Post by: norma427 on December 09, 2010, 11:05:05 AM
Norma,

The trick to maintaining a crispy bottom is to remove the pizza from the pan as soon as it's done & immediately place it on a cooling rack.  Jim's pizza's are named after their toppings, the base dough remains the same.  The thickness factor will be .0604.

Good luck!

 

Matt,

Thanks for telling me what the trick to a crispy bottom is and also the thickness factor to try.  :)  I didnít understand why the pizzas were named different.  Thanks for explaining that also.  I wish I
now would have tried more varieties of Jim Laheyís Pizza Pomodoro and examined them more, but I needed to get back to Port Authority to meet my other daughter and family.  Wouldnít you know it, her trains were running bad and I had to then wait for her for over 45 minutes.  :-D

Best of luck to you too!

Norma