Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Focaccia Style => Topic started by: Antilife on December 10, 2015, 11:59:02 AM

Title: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 10, 2015, 11:59:02 AM
Hi  Guys,
this is my last Teglia alla Romana:

30% Semola Senatore Cappelli
70% Pivetti Flour ( Girasole W350)
75% Hydration
0,7% Compressed Yeast
3% Trapani Salt

48h of Maturation (44 Controlled Temp +4 18 grades C )

F1 p134h  10 minutes at 310 grades C
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Jon in Albany on December 11, 2015, 08:45:19 AM
That looks delicious.  Nice job.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 11, 2015, 08:50:46 AM
Thanks Jon! I' m trying to do better
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on December 14, 2015, 06:19:41 PM
they look great. nice crumb!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 14, 2015, 07:11:35 PM
Thanks Pizapizza!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pizza Baker on January 14, 2016, 04:13:49 PM
Beautiful looking pizzas!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: misterschu on January 14, 2016, 05:01:47 PM
Wow, looks great.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: norcoscia on January 15, 2016, 05:00:04 AM
Love that crumb!!!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: misterschu on January 15, 2016, 11:40:09 AM
What's the hydration percentage?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 15, 2016, 11:56:04 AM
75% there's in receipt
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on January 15, 2016, 02:42:03 PM
beautiful pizzas
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 15, 2016, 04:24:25 PM
Thanks hotsawce!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Simone on January 18, 2016, 09:55:36 AM
Bravo!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on January 24, 2016, 01:26:05 PM
Antilife,

did you proof in the pan once stretched or did you do these pies Bonci style, IE stretch the skin, place in the unoiled pan, top then bake?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 24, 2016, 11:38:27 PM
Hotsawce , this is a bonci style! stretched and moved on the pan, first topping and 4 minutes in the oven, after second topping and other 4 minutes in the oven and in the last 2 minutes with mozzarella
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on February 29, 2016, 08:00:28 PM
Hotsawce , this is a bonci style! stretched and moved on the pan, first topping and 4 minutes in the oven, after second topping and other 4 minutes in the oven and in the last 2 minutes with mozzarella

So the sauce is on for the first part of the bake, correct? What would a good thickness factor be to figure out a dough for this in the calculator? How's .15?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 01, 2016, 02:58:39 AM
You can choose..... focaccia style, sauce in second part, pizza in the first. For know right wheight for dough you can use the Area system of the pan . bxh/2   30x40/2
Title: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 09, 2016, 02:58:55 PM
Teglia alla Romana ML 2.0

30% Tritordeum Uniqua Green Flour
70% Dallagiovanna Nobilgrano 0R Green
80% Hydro
0,7% Fresh Yeast
2,5% Salt

48h CF
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 09, 2016, 03:22:30 PM
The crumb almost looks like the inside of a Neapolitan cornicione. Im guessing you used a scissors or a scalpel? to cut it without crushing the crumb?
Title: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 09, 2016, 03:32:35 PM
Pizza alla Romana is a crunch pizza, but i prefer cook it more soft. I use always scissors for cut Pizza. Teglia alla Romana is different from Teglia Classica... it's most technical to lead at end .... prefer Classic but if you want impress a baker cook a Teglia alla Romana!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 03, 2016, 09:16:11 AM
Great One To One with Gabriele Valdes, a friend expert in  Roman Teglia.  After a trip in Rome , a great days to exchange experiences  and eat pizzza!!

65% Vigevano Flour Costa
15% Senatore Cappelli durum
25% Durum 5Stagioni

80% Hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% EVO

48h(44+4) CF
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on October 03, 2016, 06:44:40 PM
Dang!  It reminds me of some of the pizzas that Johnny The Gent used to post here. 
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 03, 2016, 06:59:04 PM
Yes, I searched that user. it's very similar but i think his technic is focaccia style, (balls and fermented in pan). teglia alla romana is fermented in balls for hours... stretch/topped  and baked in the final 5/10 minutes.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on October 04, 2016, 06:21:35 PM
I think he did both styles, Johnny was pretty inspired by Bonci at one point if I remember correctly. He did post beautiful pizzas. These look great, too Antilife. Thanks for sharing. Your pizza consistently looks solid, I appreciate your passion and dedication to the craft.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 05, 2016, 12:17:23 AM
Thanks invertedisdead!!world of pizza is extremely beautyful with amateur people, but professional side here in italy is an hard field... a real war. So i decided to remain an amateur and not follow step of my parents.
Title: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 10, 2016, 02:59:23 AM
25% Marino Senatore Cappelli
25% Uniqua Blu
50% Pivetti Girasole
80% Hydros
0,5 % Fresh Yeast
0,5% Sugar
2,5% Salt
52h (48CF+4RT).
I was wrong putting less yeast.... the right % is 0,7.
One of my best Teglia... but Bonci is Far!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on October 10, 2016, 10:00:38 AM
Lovely!!   :chef:
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 11, 2016, 08:33:14 AM
Thanks Invertedisdead!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 14, 2016, 04:36:28 PM
Mulino Vigevano Costiera 70%,
Marino Durum Senatore Cappelli 30%
Hydro 80%
0,7% Fresh Yeast
0,5% Sugar
2,5% Salt
60h(55TC+5TA).
Costiera is fantastic but is too weak (W280) and the envelope of gluteen is low... but rest one of my bestest pizza in teglia .
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on October 14, 2016, 07:41:03 PM
Great, what is the dough weight/ length of the pizza? Trying to understand how big it is. Really like the ciliegino.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 14, 2016, 08:33:48 PM
30x40cm (the big) 600gr each loaf, 15x40 the little ones...300gr . Dream Team is our Pizza Facebook Group,  Onion Cream, sausage, gorgonzola and Fiordilatte.... but you can add a personal ingredienrt. This is with Pomodorini DAtterini
Title: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 22, 2016, 08:50:16 AM
33% Marino Manitoba
33% Marino Senatore Cappelli
33% Marino  Buratto
85% Hydro
0,5% Sugar
0,7% Fresh Yeast
3% Salt
60h(48+12 CF)4RT final

Finnaly i taste the Famous Buratto... great flour!!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on October 22, 2016, 10:22:48 PM
Beautiful crumb, looks very light!

Can you remind me your bake time and temp for these?
I notice you experiment with flour a lot, are you a big follower in the theory of much of the flavor coming from the flour itself?

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: corkd on October 23, 2016, 12:09:49 PM
Fantastic looking pizze- i am inspired!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 24, 2016, 02:51:14 AM
Beautiful crumb, looks very light!

Can you remind me your bake time and temp for these?
I notice you experiment with flour a lot, are you a big follower in the theory of much of the flavor coming from the flour itself?
Thanks Invertedisdead, baking time is 10 minutes and temp of 310/320 grades.
I use a lot kind of Flour, and I felt difference between them (kind and brand) , i don't like for pizza use  big % of Integral or semi-integral. For Romana i use max a 50% of TIPO1 (semi-integral)an i never use semi-integral for Neapolitan......I use TIPO1 Very Strong only for preferment like Biga/poolish and SD.

Fantastic looking pizze- i am inspired!
Thanks Corkd!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Simone on November 13, 2016, 01:57:19 AM
belle complimenti :chef:
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 13, 2016, 02:35:04 PM
Grazie Pizza Party 😉
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on November 13, 2016, 06:27:47 PM
no oil?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 13, 2016, 08:48:36 PM
It's a choise, this is Marco Lungo 2.0 receipt.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 17, 2016, 06:02:38 AM
50% Molino Gatti Vmp
50% Pivetti Girasole
83% Hydro
0,7% Fresh Yeast
3% Salt
48h (45CF+5RT)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 12, 2016, 03:50:38 AM
Dough 1:
33% Marino Senatore Cappelli
33% Molino Gatti Vecchia Macina Plus
34% Pivetti Girasole
80% Hydros
0,5% Sugar
0,7% Fresh Yeast
2,5% Salt
62h (57TC+5TS25)
Dough 2:
33% Marino Senatore Cappelli
33% Uniqua Yellow
34% Pivetti Girasole
82% Hydros
0,5% Sugar
0,7% Fresh Yeast
2,5% Salt
53h (48TC+5TS25).
Durum give more structure than 100% Wheat Flour. Toppings are more importants in Teglia alla Romana.
Fast Forward
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 12, 2016, 03:51:57 AM
Other Photos
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jeff v on December 12, 2016, 08:31:00 AM
Fantastic looking pizza! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Swinger-mike on December 12, 2016, 09:40:23 AM
Again they look just perfect!!

I would be super intersted in all working steps.

how much more do you ferment your dough for focaccia compared to napoletana pizza?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on December 12, 2016, 10:12:45 AM
Very nice sir! Are you adjusting salt for fermentation control or flavor? I noticed your last was 3% and this one is 2.5%

Title: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 12, 2016, 10:27:41 AM
Thanks guys, it's a different recipe than Neapolitan. Here i need to give greater thrust from yeast. More yeast, less Salt(so balance taste for topping too) , and more and more hydros with Streght Flours.
After mix , one hour at RT and fridge for 57h (maturation)  . Balls ,and RT for 5/6 hours ( next time i will give more  hydros)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 31, 2016, 08:27:52 PM
Pizza Romana for Last Year:
16% Semolina
33% Vecchia Macina Plus Tipo1
51% Pivetti Girasole
85% Hydros
0,5% Sugar
0,7% Fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
48h (43CF+5RT)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 21, 2017, 03:50:41 PM
10% Tritordeum Uniqua Green
35% Vecchia Macina Plus
55% Manitoba Marino
80% Hydro
0,7% Fresh Yeast
2,5% Salt
48h (43CF+5RT)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete-zza on January 22, 2017, 08:59:20 AM
For the convenience of our members and to preserve the photos should the links in the last post no longer work:

Peter
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete-zza on January 22, 2017, 09:00:23 AM
The rest:

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 22, 2017, 09:27:22 AM
Thanks Pete-zza.. with Tapatalk doesn't works and with PC others problems!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pizza Baker on January 23, 2017, 07:36:52 AM
What type of pans do you use for this style? Type of metal? Where can they be purchased? Thanks. Jim
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 23, 2017, 08:01:56 AM
Pizza Baker i use Blue Iron pans 30cmx40cm
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on January 23, 2017, 12:57:58 PM
nice crumb
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: justazaguy on February 07, 2017, 10:19:04 PM
Antilife, your pizza looks incredible!!! I'm going to try to make some pizza alla romana for the first time. Do you mind explaining your dough making process? Do you use a poolish? How much yeast do you use in it? Do you include that in your ferment time? Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 07, 2017, 11:06:21 PM
Antilife, your pizza looks incredible!!! I'm going to try to make some pizza alla romana for the first time. Do you mind explaining your dough making process? Do you use a poolish? How much yeast do you use in it? Do you include that in your ferment time? Thanks!
Thanks justazaguy,
No preferments, dough is a simple direct. Pizza alla Romana is the most complicated pizza can do causes high hydros and amount of yeast (7gr/kg of fresh yeast or 3,5gr/kg of ADY) . You need a fridge dedicated to dough that real reach 4/5 grades without lose of temperature.  I mix the first ingredients with 80% of water and in the last i add salt and rest of water. When dough is done ( at temperature of 22/24) i leave at RT for 1 hours to activate yeast. After mass in frigde for a lot  of time(48h minimun). every 24h in fridge i rigenerate  the mass and put again in fridge.5 hours before baking i do balls and leave at RT. When all balls are proofed , i stretch in pan and put in oven at 310 grades. Search Videos of Pino Arletto.... the real best Pizzamakers for Pizza alla Romana
 https://youtu.be/4u8bIf0-e1I  (https://youtu.be/4u8bIf0-e1I)

on 4th Feb in italy we make a course for Teglia alla Romana with Gabriele Valds where i supported him and 12 Pizzamakers, making dough for course and support group during it (in the last i baked Neapolitan Pizza too)

http://www.pizza-root.com (http://www.pizza-root.com)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pizza Baker on February 08, 2017, 07:50:35 AM
Great video.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 08, 2017, 07:53:44 AM
What is the dough weight for that size pan?
600 gr
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: justazaguy on February 11, 2017, 03:18:00 AM
Thanks justazaguy,
No preferments, dough is a simple direct. Pizza alla Romana is the most complicated pizza can do causes high hydros and amount of yeast (7gr/kg of fresh yeast or 3,5gr/kg of ADY) . You need a fridge dedicated to dough that real reach 4/5 grades without lose of temperature.  I mix the first ingredients with 80% of water and in the last i add salt and rest of water. When dough is done ( at temperature of 22/24) i leave at RT for 1 hours to activate yeast. After mass in frigde for a lot  of time(48h minimun). every 24h in fridge i rigenerate  the mass and put again in fridge.5 hours before baking i do balls and leave at RT. When all balls are proofed , i stretch in pan and put in oven at 310 grades. Search Videos of Pino Arletto.... the real best Pizzamakers for Pizza alla Romana

Antilife - thank you for your help! I tried to make my first pizza alla romana tonight, and i wouldnt characterize it as a success. It was a challenge working with such a wet dough, and I may have been too rough with the dough trying to fold it and shape it on day 1, and the day 2 reshaping. In the end the dough never really rose in the oven. There was no oven spring really, and the pizza cooked as thin, dense bread. I did 48hrs CF, using .075% ADY, and 80% hydration. I will keep trying, as I strive to make something like you're making!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 11, 2017, 04:18:40 AM
Antilife - thank you for your help! I tried to make my first pizza alla romana tonight, and i wouldnt characterize it as a success. It was a challenge working with such a wet dough, and I may have been too rough with the dough trying to fold it and shape it on day 1, and the day 2 reshaping. In the end the dough never really rose in the oven. There was no oven spring really, and the pizza cooked as thin, dense bread. I did 48hrs CF, using .075% ADY, and 80% hydration. I will keep trying, as I strive to make something like you're making!
Pizza alla Romana is only manuallity and  dough management... try and try and Pizza will be better. You are right... it's a challange
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on February 11, 2017, 08:27:09 AM
Antilife - thank you for your help! I tried to make my first pizza alla romana tonight, and i wouldnt characterize it as a success. It was a challenge working with such a wet dough, and I may have been too rough with the dough trying to fold it and shape it on day 1, and the day 2 reshaping. In the end the dough never really rose in the oven. There was no oven spring really, and the pizza cooked as thin, dense bread. I did 48hrs CF, using .075% ADY, and 80% hydration. I will keep trying, as I strive to make something like you're making!

Pretty low yeast amount, Did it not rise because it was way underfermented?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 11, 2017, 10:59:42 AM
Antilife - thank you for your help! I tried to make my first pizza alla romana tonight, and i wouldnt characterize it as a success. It was a challenge working with such a wet dough, and I may have been too rough with the dough trying to fold it and shape it on day 1, and the day 2 reshaping. In the end the dough never really rose in the oven. There was no oven spring really, and the pizza cooked as thin, dense bread. I did 48hrs CF, using .075% ADY, and 80% hydration. I will keep trying, as I strive to make something like you're making!
justazaguy, close to you can you find fresh yeast. Fresh yeast is perfect for Pizza alla Romana, because have more envelope than ADY. This receipe converted for ADY ..use 0,35%
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: justazaguy on February 11, 2017, 12:58:27 PM
Pretty low yeast amount, Did it not rise because it was way underfermented?

justazaguy, close to you can you find fresh yeast. Fresh yeast is perfect for Pizza alla Romana, because have more envelope than ADY. This receipe converted for ADY ..use 0,35%
you both are right!!! I must have miscalculated my yeast significantly. This explains A LOT! I'll try it again now.

Do you try to reshape/fold the dough every 24 hours? I did that each day, but after a few minutes the skin would break and then would become unmanageable. Maybe I should've worked it less.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on February 11, 2017, 06:03:22 PM
Nice work, Antilife!  You are inspiring me to try this style again :o
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 11, 2017, 06:47:25 PM
you both are right!!! I must have miscalculated my yeast significantly. This explains A LOT! I'll try it again now.

Do you try to reshape/fold the dough every 24 hours? I did that each day, but after a few minutes the skin would break and then would become unmanageable. Maybe I should've worked it less.
This is my friend Gabriele, each 24h.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-f9e-EOGItRRXZMOURvZXJBMFk/view?usp=drivesdk (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-f9e-EOGItRRXZMOURvZXJBMFk/view?usp=drivesdk)

Nice work, Antilife!  You are inspiring me to try this style again :o
Thanks Parallei. I think this kind of pizza is the most artistic and deep in fact of studies concerning doughs and toppings
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pizza Baker on February 13, 2017, 07:44:24 AM
Antilife, What is the protein % of the various flours you use? I'm trying to find comparable USA flours. Do you add oil to the dough? Thanks Jim
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 13, 2017, 07:48:59 AM
13/13,5 and for real pizza alla romana you MUST use about 2% of oil EVO
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on February 13, 2017, 05:41:21 PM
Pizza Baker i use Blue Iron pans 30cmx40cm

600 gr

I was wondering too.  That is a TF of 0.5g/cm2 or 0.11oz/in2
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: justazaguy on February 17, 2017, 01:43:49 AM
Antilife - Ok, I saw significant improvement on my 2nd pie (which is great!), but still didn't get nearly the rise you're getting. Additionally, I'm not getting my air pockets looking anything like yours. I'll switch to fresh yeast next time.

When I saw CF originally, i thought you meant a cold ferment, so I've been fermenting in my refrigerator which is 36F/2C. Am I understanding correctly that you're actually using CF to signify a controlled ferment at 18C/64F, and never really dropping much lower temperature than that? If so, that is probably a huge difference maker. Thank you again!!! I'm really enjoying trying to learn this process.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 17, 2017, 02:18:35 AM
Antilife - Ok, I saw significant improvement on my 2nd pie (which is great!), but still didn't get nearly the rise you're getting. Additionally, I'm not getting my air pockets looking anything like yours. I'll switch to fresh yeast next time.

When I saw CF originally, i thought you meant a cold ferment, so I've been fermenting in my refrigerator which is 36F/2C. Am I understanding correctly that you're actually using CF to signify a controlled ferment at 18C/64F, and never really dropping much lower temperature than that? If so, that is probably a huge difference maker. Thank you again!!! I'm really enjoying trying to learn this process.
Justazaguy, my dough rest all time at 4/5c  in refrigerator (white) and only in the last hours i put in my WineBar (black) at 18/20c. Remember that Teglia Romana is management and mannuality. One of the most critical step is the passage in pans and stretching.... exercise yourself in that step and the result will be better!!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 18, 2017, 06:14:07 PM
50% Pivetti Girasole 00
40% Denti InFibra Tipo1
10% Semolina Agiugaro
80% Hydros
0,7% Fresh Yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h (44CF+4RT)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on February 18, 2017, 09:24:37 PM
Those look great!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 19, 2017, 08:31:09 AM
Thx Invertedisdead  😉
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on February 22, 2017, 10:40:18 AM
Bonci, Lungo, Valdes, Arletto e Antilife: il pantheon dei grandi pizzaioli italiani :chef:.  Forse conosci anche Mirko Rizzo per caso?  Molto bravo anche lui.  Sono curioso: Marco Lungo non raccomanda i rigeneri per la teglia e insiste che gli alveoli devono essere ben rotondi come indicazione di una corretta lievitazione.  Cosa ne pensi? 

Complimenti, le tue pizze sono meravigliose...mi fanno venire l'aquolina in bocca :drool:

Saluti,

Rolls

(For those who don't understand italian, I'm asking Antilife about the correct crumb structure for "pizza in teglia".  There seems to be diverging opinions about this among some of the notable pizzamakers in Italy whom he has cited in this thread)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 22, 2017, 11:40:32 AM
Thanks Rolls.Yes , i know Mirko. (In next my travel on 17 March , I will try his Pizza). I talk with a lot of this Pizzamakers for long time (Valds and Lungo in Primis) and each one has his own concept of Pizza and crumb structure... Remember that the real Creator and Innovator of teglia alla romana is Angelo Iezzi.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on February 22, 2017, 12:44:36 PM
Thanks for mentioning Angelo Iezzi - it's not a name I recognize.  Please report back on the pizza & fritti at Pommidoro when you visit Mirko.  It was always a pleasure reading his posts and watching his videos at Profumi Dal Forno.  You certainly rub elbows with some of the top pizza guys in Italy.  Wish I also had the chance to learn from them in person like you!

Take care.


Rolls
I really miss Italy :'(

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 22, 2017, 01:01:47 PM
Rolls...in this moment , i'm watching working Andrea Boscolo at his Pizzeria Antichi Sapori in Chioggia(VE). I'm learning how work a pizzeria in teglia and workflows. One of the best pizza Romana in North Italy
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on February 22, 2017, 01:13:59 PM
Now I am even more jealous!  I will have to visit Antichi Sapori next time I'm in Italy. My family is from the Veneto region.


Rolls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 26, 2017, 09:03:21 AM
60% Pivetti Girasole,
30% Denti InFibra Mix W340
10% Senatore Cappelli Marino
80% Idro
0,7% Lbf
2% Evo
3% Salt
Carbonara 3.0
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on February 26, 2017, 09:18:03 AM
I could drive a car through those holes!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 26, 2017, 09:30:16 AM
Tha jsaras.... remember Security Belt 😊😊
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on February 26, 2017, 10:23:02 AM
Do you think there's anything to improve? They look as good as the pros to me. Great job!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on February 26, 2017, 01:09:06 PM
 :chef: :chef:

Very nice!

Gabriele Bonci used to give a class in Rome.  I looked recently thinking I might do it as an excuse to travel to Italy again.  It does not look like he does them anymore.  At least I couldn't find it if he does. :(
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 26, 2017, 02:10:19 PM
Do you think there's anything to improve? They look as good as the pros to me. Great job!
I ll Never stop to improve and try undestand how work this dough ... is really complex from beginning... and the path is long. Another  critical are Topping.. each topping reclaim a kind of baking.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on February 26, 2017, 03:59:27 PM
I ll Never stop to improve and try undestand how work this dough ... is really complex from beginning... and the path is long. Another  critical are Topping.. each topping reclaim a kind of baking.

The topping combinations of this pizza style are very interesting. It would be nice if you posted them with your pizzas. Your toppings always look interesting and good but I can't always tell what's on the pizza.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 26, 2017, 04:29:04 PM
The topping combinations of this pizza style are very interesting. It would be nice if you posted them with your pizzas. Your toppings always look interesting and good but I can't always tell what's on the pizza.
You are right invertedisdead:
Carbonara:
Eggs (only the Yellows)
Bacon
Scamorza and Mozzarella

Onion
Friggitielli (little green pepper)
Datterini Gialli
Scamorza

Sausiges
Porcini
mozzarella
Parmisan Cream

Piennolo Tomatoes
Mozzarella
Conciato Romano (the oldest Pecorin in the world)

Base Tomatoes
Mozzarella
Spicy Salami
Stracchino
Spicy Evo
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 26, 2017, 04:59:39 PM
:chef: :chef:

Very nice!

Gabriele Bonci used to give a class in Rome.  I looked recently thinking I might do it as an excuse to travel to Italy again.  It does not look like he does them anymore.  At least I couldn't find it if he does. :(
Bonci courses are only for home users, with low professional course. If you wanna do a real course for Teglia you can find Pino Arletto at Coquis or Gabriele Valds at Makeatpizza.... all in Rome
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on February 26, 2017, 06:47:00 PM
Bonci courses are only for home users, with low professional course. If you wanna do a real course for Teglia you can find Pino Arletto at Coquis or Gabriele Valds at Makeatpizza.... all in Rome

Well, I am a home pizza maker....... ;D

I will check out your suggestions!  It would be great fun to get a group of people from the U.S.A. and Europe for a class, and a few days of baking/cooking/drinking an eating.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 26, 2017, 06:58:39 PM
Well, I am a home pizza maker....... ;D

I will check out your suggestions!  It would be great fun to get a group of people from the U.S.A. and Europe for a class, and a few days of baking/cooking/drinking an eating.
😃😃😃 Right !!! Say me when you will organize this Pizza travel that i come in Rome to meet you. Modena is far but one time each month i travel to Rome or Naples for taste pizzerias and sharing with professional PizzaMakers
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on February 27, 2017, 10:45:01 AM
You are right invertedisdead:
Carbonara:
Eggs (only the Yellows)
Bacon
Scamorza and Mozzarella

Onion
Friggitielli (little green pepper)
Datterini Gialli
Scamorza

Sausiges
Porcini
mozzarella
Parmisan Cream

Piennolo Tomatoes
Mozzarella
Conciato Romano (the oldest Pecorin in the world)

Base Tomatoes
Mozzarella
Spicy Salami
Stracchino
Spicy Evo

Excellent, thank you!!  :chef:
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on March 02, 2017, 11:34:45 PM
do you use a cold ferment?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 03, 2017, 12:05:37 AM
Yes. 48h (43CF+5RT)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 23, 2017, 03:56:10 AM
Personal Receipt:
50% Denti Anima verace
40% Denti InFibra
10% Semolina
75% Hydros
0.7% Fresh Yeast
2% EVO
2,5%  Salt

I used Weak Flour (Anima Verace) so i decided less hydratation.
more photos at: http://www.pizza-root.com/2017/03/23/vulga-display-of-power/ (http://www.pizza-root.com/2017/03/23/vulgar-display-of-power/)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 23, 2017, 04:03:06 AM
THIS IS REAL 😂😂😂
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Jon in Albany on March 23, 2017, 09:35:33 AM
Looks great!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: norma427 on March 23, 2017, 11:24:34 AM
Looks great!

 ^^^ :drool:

Norma
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on April 07, 2017, 09:31:08 PM
Pizza Romana to empty the fridge.
60% Denti Anima di Grano 002
30% Mix Denti InFibra w340
10% Semolina
80% Hydros
0.7% Fresh Yeast
2% Evo
2.5% Salt
Blood Simulation 😂😂😂
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on April 08, 2017, 04:48:02 PM
great crumb!


Yes. 48h (43CF+5RT)
is there a reason you do a cold ferment?
ive always done a rt ferment. i believe bonci does a cold ferment too.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on April 08, 2017, 05:01:37 PM
Pizapizza thx. I use strong flour , so  i need long maturation. Romana use a big amount of yeast and high hydratation so RT is not possible for long time.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on April 19, 2017, 09:56:08 PM
Test High Hydros, fast maturation and Weak Flour. I tested a receipt of my friend Andrea Boscolo... in this period he use weak flour so he can accelerate the maturation of flour. 
65% Spadoni Pulcinella (W220 weak flour)
15% Denti Infibra w300 ( semi whole grain)
20 % Semolina
80% Hydros
0.7% CY
2% Evo
2.5% Salt
24h (20CF+4RT)

Great Taste.... but really difficult to mix , manage and manipulate.

more photos at: http://www.pizza-root/2017/04/20/brevi-lievitazioni-ad-alta-idratazione-con-farine-deboli/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on April 25, 2017, 06:37:34 AM
Teglia Romana and Classic Teglia(focaccia Style with levitation in pan).
Romana:
90% Nobilgrano 0/1R Verde
10%Semolin
80% Hydros
0,7% Fresh Yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
40h(36CF+4RT)
Classic Teglia:
75% Spadoni Pulcinella
25% Denti InFibra W300a
70% hydro
1% Fresh Yeast
3% Lard
3% Salt
30h (15 minutes Bulk Mass, 1h Rest, in pan and after 24hCF, 5h RT).
More photos at: http://www.pizza-root.com/2017/04/25/mare-e-pizza/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 22, 2017, 04:15:08 AM
Impasto1:
60% Denti 002
30% infibra MixW340
90% hydros
0,8% fresh yeast
2%Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(45CF+3RT)

Impasto 2:
90% 0R Verde
10% Semolina Agugiaro
80% hydros
0.7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2.5% Salt
42h(38CF+4RT)

More photos and toppings at:

http://www.0059.it/2017/05/22/prove-di-toppings/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 26, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Tying to make a 87% percent double hydrated dough right now and this is NOT easy in a kitchen aid. I got a smooth and not sticky dough at 70% on the first mix...tried to not let the dough break on the second mix but it looks like batter right now. Letting it rest and will go at it again and hopefully I can get some more gluten development
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 27, 2017, 03:14:03 PM
For anyone making at home, this is a nice visual guide here for the double hydration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2gRMWXh0u0

I don't speak italian but it's pretty self explanatory and you can see what the dough should look like at different stages. I'd recommend using the paddle instead of the hook as he is in the video
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 27, 2017, 06:05:46 PM
I always used this old video of Mirko Rizzo 
https://youtu.be/j2L3JOOeevc
In my own opininon that hydros is useless because:
1) Planetary don't give enough strength to dough
2) more hydros don't means more structure.....
3) In Roman Pizzeria standard hydros is 75%.

Reach high level of hydros is only a challange with yourself....
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 27, 2017, 07:30:19 PM
There certainly seem to be limitations with planetary mixers. I'm going to try a paddle attachment in the future. But so far...two attempts and unusable dough. I had been gravitating towards really letting the mixer rip and mix fast, so it's nice to see that confirmed by the two videos.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 28, 2017, 04:35:14 PM
Question:

How do you get this dough to not bake and adhere directly to the pan with this kind of a hydration? Is there a trick to it?

Bonci uses no fat in the pan. Most al Taglio seems to use an un-oiled pan. My dough was half decent but it glued itself to the pan during the bake, which is unfortunate.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 28, 2017, 05:40:48 PM
Question:

How do you get this dough to not bake and adhere directly to the pan with this kind of a hydration? Is there a trick to it?

Bonci uses no fat in the pan. Most al Taglio seems to use an un-oiled pan. My dough was half decent but it glued itself to the pan during the bake, which is unfortunate.
You can find a lot of video of Pino Arletto about stretching in pan (after leaving in balls). Always oil in pan
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 28, 2017, 05:50:33 PM
Bonci does not use oil

You can find a lot of video of Pino Arletto about stretching in pan (after leaving in balls). Always oil in pan
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 28, 2017, 06:14:24 PM
Ok 😂😂😂😂 you are right. Bake in pan without oil
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 28, 2017, 06:57:24 PM
You don't have to be a jerk  ::)

If you don't have valuable input someone will. Bonci doesn't use oil in the pan with his 90% hydration dough. It's a fact. Oil changes the texture of the finished product. That's a fact.

Ok 😂😂😂😂 you are right. Bake in pan without oil
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on May 28, 2017, 07:06:28 PM
.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 28, 2017, 07:20:14 PM
I'm well aware. Oil is not used for pans in his bakery.

Oil leads to a significantly different bottom crust texture.

His book, albeit for home bakers like myself, says to use an oiled pan.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on May 28, 2017, 09:15:42 PM
I'm well aware. Oil is not used for pans in his bakery.

Oil leads to a significantly different bottom crust texture.

O.K. then, I deleted my post!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 29, 2017, 01:08:33 AM
https://youtu.be/sKotvbfWdU4 This is Bonci. Check the pan......he say that don'use oil in pizzarium but I know and work with many people who have worked with Bonci(Jacopo Mercuro e Luca Pezzetta).... Pizzarium use two kind of pans, bake on blu iron pans (with oil) and after bake they use steel pans to show to customer ..... This for HACCP and hygene reasons
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Matthew on May 29, 2017, 07:04:22 AM
You don't have to be a jerk  ::)

If you don't have valuable input someone will. Bonci doesn't use oil in the pan with his 90% hydration dough. It's a fact. Oil changes the texture of the finished product. That's a fact.


Lou,
I have adapted the same method as Bonci with great success and never any issues.  The semola (on both sides) during pre-shaping and well seasoned blue steel pans are key. As a general rule of thumb, if the dough sticks to your hands it will stick to the pan when no oil is used.  You are bang on that adding oil to the pan totally changes the undercarriage.  I personally never use any oil.  It can be noted though that many pizza makers brush a tiny bit of oil around the perimeter of the pan as it helps hold the dough in place.


Matt
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 29, 2017, 01:59:03 PM
Teglia Romana Course Level advanced:
Jacoopo Mercuro , Me and Special Guest: Andrea Boscolo
Dough1:
10% Semolina Durum
90% Dallagiovanna 0/1R Verde
75%Hydros
0,7% Fresh Yeast
2 % Evo
2.5% Salt

Dough2:
10% Semolina Durum
10% Spelled
20% Denti Infibra Mix W340
60% Denti 002
75% Hydros
0,8% Fresh Yeast
2% Evo
2.5% Salt

More photos at: http://www.0059.it/2017/05/28/corso-teglia-romana/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on June 02, 2017, 12:22:38 PM
Bonci recommends oil for his class and book; it's for the home cook. It's stripped down to be easy.

He does NOT use oil in his pans in the restaurant. That's a fact. He's said it in numerous interviews. If you want more evidence of that, watch the Lucky Peach video. No oil.

https://youtu.be/sKotvbfWdU4 This is Bonci. Check the pan......he say that don'use oil in pizzarium but I know and work with many people who have worked with Bonci(Jacopo Mercuro e Luca Pezzetta).... Pizzarium use two kind of pans, bake on blu iron pans (with oil) and after bake they use steel pans to show to customer ..... This for HACCP and hygene reasons
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 02, 2017, 03:48:30 PM
Yes hotsawce. I ask to Luca Pezzetta (first pizzaiolo of Bonci) and he confirm this info
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 05, 2017, 09:20:42 AM
Dough1:
10% Semolina Durum
20% Denti InFibra Tipo1
70% Spadoni Pz4
80%Hydros
0,8% Fresh Yeast
2 % Evo
2.5% Salt

More Photos and Infos:
http://www.0059.it/2017/06/05/spizzo-o-non-spizzo/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on June 05, 2017, 02:57:07 PM
Love your topping combinations Stefano.

This one sounds great - "Cipolla Marinata, Salsiccia di Norcia, Pecorino Romano e Crema di Zucchine"
And this one "Pomodorini Confit, Pancetta Magretta, Mozzarella di Bufala Campana ed Erba Cipollina"

I wish I had access to some of these awesome ingredients you are using. Which style is your preference, Romana or Neapolitan?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 05, 2017, 03:27:59 PM
Thanks inevertedisdead! Your question is really difficoult 😂😂😂 . I think that every style have pros and versus.... I would melt these styles. Target: Neapolitan pizza with  toppings of Teglia Romana ... Now i'm try to improve manuality and use of ingredients.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on June 05, 2017, 05:22:17 PM
Thanks inevertedisdead! Your question is really difficoult 😂😂😂 . I think that every style have pros and versus.... I would melt these styles. Target: Neapolitan pizza with  toppings of Teglia Romana ... Now i'm try to improve manuality and use of ingredients.

No doubt they each have their pros, I was just wondering if there was one you liked to bake more. I know you have said you like the technicality of pizza alla Romana. It must be a lot of work to prep all these toppings! It's all very impressive.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 05, 2017, 05:34:30 PM
Yes. But at this moment i think that real difficult is manage perfectly a Neapolitan Oven. In this period I'm using some Neapolitan fire ovens and the extreme heat make impossible  manage pizza without right experience and manuality. My focus is to improve this aspect
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 10, 2017, 04:40:34 AM

10% Semolina Durum
10% Spelled
20% Denti Infibra W380
60% Spadoni Pz4
80% Hydros
0,8% Fresh Yeast
2% Evo
2.5% Salt

More photos at: http://www.0059.it/2017/05/28/corso-teglia-romana/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on June 10, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
great crumb as usual!  :drool:
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 11, 2017, 09:11:15 AM
Thanks PizaPizza...... Tomatoes Confit, Tropean Onion and Stracciatella was Incredible!! ;)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 19, 2017, 06:45:47 PM
After my last travel in Paris I melt Le Croque-Monsieur with Italian Crostino and Saltimbocca. Le Croque-Italien is born.

Usual:
70% Spadoni Pz4
20% mix infibra 340
10% semolina
80% Hydros
0,7%  Fresh Yeast
2% Evo
2.5%Salt
48h(45+3RT)

More photos and infos at:  http://www.0059.it/2017/06/19/le-croque-italien/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on June 19, 2017, 07:09:17 PM
Fantastic!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: csnack on June 20, 2017, 05:19:59 AM
That's a cool shirt.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 20, 2017, 08:30:27 AM
Fantastic!
That's a cool shirt.

Thanks, especially for the shirt !!   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 24, 2017, 05:34:23 PM
Real Focaccia "Zozza Napoletana"

33%Spadoni Tipo1 W200
64% Denti anima verace
65% hydros
1% Fresh yeast
3% Lard
3% salt
Immediatly in balls 1RT + 33CF in pan , 2,5h a TA.
 Yellow Datterini and Peppered Salami was Fantastic!!

More photos and infos at: http://www.0059.it/2017/06/24/da-al-tramezzino-40-anni-dopo/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on June 29, 2017, 01:49:17 PM
Grandi capolavori, as usual, Antilife!

I was wondering if you could explain the difference in texture between Teglia Romana, Teglia Classica and Focaccia. Are you using the same type of steel pan for all 3?

Also, I'd be curious to know if you ever met up with Mirko Rizzo in Rome? Any word on his pizza and fritti?



Rolls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 29, 2017, 02:24:38 PM
Thanks Rolls,
Teglia Classica and Focaccia use the same method of leavening in a pan, while Teglia romana leavening in Ball, but the stretch and baking occur immediately. Mirko is  one of the greatest Pizzamaker of Teglia Romana in the world, and he is also a friend who i estimate a lot. When traveling to Rome we always try to arrange some tasting together with a new pizzeria, together with Jacopo Mercuro and Gabriele Valds when he lived in Rome.

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on June 29, 2017, 02:42:12 PM
^^ the Mount Rushmore of Pizza in Teglia ^^


I agree about Mirko. Learned so much from him...... and Gabriele Valds too.

Thanks for the pictures.


Rolls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 29, 2017, 02:49:15 PM
Great People,  Jacopo Mercuro is a great Pizzamker too. One of my prefered topping is created by him,  Marinated Onion, Confit Tomatoes and Roman Pecorino.......Simple but effective and tasty
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 29, 2017, 05:42:23 PM


First Test for new dough with rye flour
85% Dallagiovanna 0R Verde
5% Rye Flour Mulino Marino
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% EVO
2,5% Salt
Less structure than usual;The rye flour has less gluten and I have to understand better how to work it.
More photos and infos to: http://www.0059.it/2017/07/29/nuovi-impastiingredienti-e-km-0/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on July 30, 2017, 10:00:30 PM
where else do you go for pizza in roma?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 30, 2017, 10:14:31 PM
Here all my personal reviews of Pizzerias. Search in Rome that with more points.

http://www.0059.it/pizzerie/

Pizzarium, Pommidoro, osteria del borgo,pizza zaza.... The firsts to visit
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 31, 2017, 06:31:41 PM

First Test for new dough with rye flour
85% Dallagiovanna 0R Verde
5% Rye Flour Mulino Marino
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% EVO
2,5% Salt
Less structure than usual;The rye flour has less gluten and I have to understand better how to work it.
More photos and infos to: http://www.0059.it/2017/07/29/nuovi-impastiingredienti-e-km-0/

As always, looking VERY good.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 31, 2017, 06:33:35 PM
Thx parallei
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 31, 2017, 06:35:49 PM

First Test for new dough with rye flour


As always, looking VERY good.  May I ask what toppings you used on the pizza below?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 31, 2017, 06:49:31 PM
As always, looking VERY good.  May I ask what toppings you used on the pizza below?
Mix of sweet Peppers and Frggitelli, Mozzarella,Speck and Zucchini/Basil/walnuts Pesto
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 31, 2017, 07:33:02 PM
Mix of sweet Peppers and Frggitelli, Mozzarella,Speck and Zucchini/Basil/walnuts Pesto

Thanks!  I can't figure out what Frggitelli is!  I'm liking the thought of a pesto with Zucchini.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 31, 2017, 08:30:11 PM
Here friggitelli.... Peppers ,but bitter and no sweet https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170801/96b11a672dab81695d052b59ffa9ea92.jpg

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 31, 2017, 09:36:11 PM
Here friggitelli.... Peppers ,but bitter and no sweet

Got it.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 03, 2017, 02:28:23 PM
Test personalized strong flour ( in italy dust 0 W340 P/L 60)
70% New Flour
20% Mix infibra Tipo1 w340,
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(45CF+3RT)

First test with EVO and Cipro Salt
Second Test with Mozzarella and Sage (to simulate ingredients)

Good Taste, but i need to change some stats. In mix i see some problems.

More infos and photos to:
http://www.0059.it/2017/08/03/il-massimo-dal-km-zero/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 13, 2017, 01:33:00 AM
2nd Test with rye flour dough
85% Dallagiovanna 0R Verde
5% Rye Flour Mulino Marino
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% EVO
2,5% Salt
I work around the mix goving more strength to dough ,improving gluteen bonds.
I think my best structure.
More photos and infos to: http://www.0059.it/2017/08/13/e-segale-sia/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on August 13, 2017, 07:47:21 PM
2nd Test with rye flour dough

Beautiful. :chef:

You realize, of course, that most of can not purchase those flours here in the old U.S.A.!! :( :(
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 13, 2017, 07:56:41 PM
???? Really??? In USA you can't find rye flour?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on August 13, 2017, 10:45:41 PM
???? Really??? In USA you can't find rye flour?

Of course we can find rye flour!!! ::)

I was thinking more like:

- Dallagiovanna 0R Verde
- Tipo1 w340
- Denti Infibra W380
- Spadoni Pz4
- Nobilgrano 0/1R Verde
-  Denti Anima verace
- Denti InFibra

What the heck are those? :-D

You pizza is great!

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 14, 2017, 03:51:12 AM
Thanks Parallei, these brands are simple wheat flours. In italy 00 is flour with 0,55 of ash, 0 with 0,65 and Tipo1 with 0,8 of ash. This link explain the  differences http://www.cooksinfo.com/italian-flours
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 20, 2017, 03:51:57 PM
Second Day of Course 'One to One' with an Austrian.

90% Dallagiovanna 0R Verde
10% Semolina
75% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% EVO
2,5% Salt

More Info and photos at:
http://www.0059.it/2017/08/20/e-poi-teglia/
https://i0.wp.com/www.0059.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/wp-image-1986203244.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/www.0059.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/wp-image-333964231.jpg
https://i1.wp.com/www.0059.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/wp-image-1903729993.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/www.0059.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/wp-image-275343765..jpg
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 11, 2017, 04:11:38 AM
Event for 80 persons
22 pans of Teglia Romana for 11 Toppings
80% Dallagiovanna 0R Verde
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% EVO
2,5% Salt
I had anemy on the top of the  pizza because the oven not always at higher tamperature. For time issues i had to bake in any condition.

Photos ,Infos and Toppings on my site: http://www.0059.it/2017/09/10/la-visione-0059/
Facebook Site: www.facebook.com/pizzaprincipiumest

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on September 11, 2017, 09:57:11 AM
Spectacular!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 11, 2017, 03:04:26 PM
Thanks Jsaras!!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on September 13, 2017, 10:07:29 PM
Much respect!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 14, 2017, 12:43:20 AM
Thanks invertedisdead!!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 27, 2017, 04:04:31 AM
Flour Test:
90% Denti 002
1% Denti Infibra Viva (only Bran and Grain germ)
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% EVO
2,5% Salt

44h(40CF-4RT)
satisfied with the result

More infos and photos: http://www.0059.it/2017/09/27/corsi-finiscono-test-no/
FAcebook Page:  www.facebook.com/pizzaprincipiumest
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 05, 2017, 06:38:15 PM
Another Test , but with a new weak flour prepared for me by Molino Denti

70% W240 Denti
20% Infibra W300 Tipo1
10% semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
30h (26CF+4RT)
Next Time with weak flour is better add more yeast

More infos and photos: http://www.0059.it/2017/10/05/ed-ora-tocca-alla-breve-lievitazione/
FAcebook Page:  www.facebook.com/pizzaprincipiumest
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: trosenberg on October 05, 2017, 07:51:26 PM
Some how I missed this tread.  These are works of art.  Beautiful!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 06, 2017, 02:39:44 AM
Thanks Trosenberg!!! I hope enjoy you. Try these receipt
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 15, 2017, 05:35:12 PM
My last Pubblic Event in Modena (Italy)
18 Pans of Teglia Romana

2 Doughs:

90% Denti 002
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(45CF+5RT)

70% Dallagiovanna 0N Blu
20% Infibra Tipo1 W380
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(45CF+4RT)

I used all strong flour and long maturation to have the most simple and light dough.
A great Degustation of my prefered toppings:

Peccati di Gola: Yellow Datterini,smoked pork pillow,barricade honey and almond grain
Oro degli Dei : Tropea onion marinated in juniper berries,Grilled Eggplant ,Cherry Tomato Confit and solid smoked ricotta cheese
Sole D'Estate : courgette flowers, Yellow datterini, Mora Romagnola Sausiges and traditional vinegar of Modena

more infos at:  http://www.0059.it/2017/10/15/degustazioni-modenesi/
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli



Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Satyen on October 16, 2017, 01:31:16 AM
Bellissimo
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 16, 2017, 01:47:39 AM
Bellissimo
Thanks Satyen
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 22, 2017, 06:32:18 PM
Shots from last course of Teglia Romana at Rome (location Colosseum)

90% Denti 002
10% Semolina
75% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
24h(20CF+4RT)

the classmates hand mixed, prepared the balls, stretch in pan and baked his own Pizza in Teglia.
the participants from all over Italy brought products from their territory to taste

More infos and photos: http://www.0059.it/2017/10/22/corso-al-colosseo/
Facebook Page:  https://www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: invertedisdead on October 23, 2017, 11:30:12 AM
Very cool! I bet your class is a great course!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 24, 2017, 12:37:38 AM
Very cool! I bet your class is a great course!
Thanks invertedisdead.... A lot of pizza disappared
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: chrisf on October 27, 2017, 05:09:26 PM
Hi

What kind of mixer are you using for your strong flours?

thanks,
chris
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 27, 2017, 05:20:14 PM
Hi

What kind of mixer are you using for your strong flours?

thanks,
chris
Hi chrisf, i use Spiral Mixer both for strong or weak flour
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Swinger-mike on October 28, 2017, 03:54:14 AM
What are your work steps of mixing high hydration dough?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 28, 2017, 04:08:13 AM
What are your work steps of mixing high hydration dough?
65% of hydratation at beginnig and after the salt the remaining water (to reach 80%) one at a time...in the last EVO
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Swinger-mike on October 28, 2017, 04:42:17 PM
interesting!

what do you think about disolving all salt in the water? or do you use fine salt and add that?

do you pure the water then all at once or little bit at a time after u reached the 65%?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 28, 2017, 05:14:43 PM
interesting!

what do you think about disolving all salt in the water? or do you use fine salt and add that?

do you pure the water then all at once or little bit at a time after u reached the 65%?
Little bit after reach 65%. I prefer not dissolve salt because solid salt give 1 celsius to dough and i'm sure that i will dissolve the salt throug mixing
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 08, 2017, 03:13:28 PM
Testing the new Moretti oven at DentiLAB with my new Denti flours. for 2 different doughs....... keep in touch!!

Pizza in Pala:
100% New Denti Flour W250 (mid streght)
72% hydros
0,35% ady
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
6h(1+5) All RT

Teglia Romana:
90% New Denti Flour W340 (strenght)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h(43CF+5RT)

Great Oven....i changed baking temperature and times understanding how this Moretti works.

More infos andh photos at: http://www.0059.it/2017/11/08/dentilab-un-laboratorio-svezzare/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli/


Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 25, 2017, 03:19:55 PM
Presentation of my new flours  Zero+ W250 (Weak) and Zero+W340 (Strong) created by the mill DENTI. A mix of products with % of Buckwheat ,Rye,seeds and broken grain.

Teglia romana:
10% Semolina
90% Denti Zero+ W340 (strong)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h(43CF+5RT)

Pala Romana with Buckwheat and Chia Seeds:
10% Semolina
10% Buckwheat and Seeds
80% Denti Zero+ W340 (strong)
75% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h(43CF+5RT)

Pala Romana with Broken Grain:
10% Semolina
10% Broken Grain
80% Denti Zero+ W250 (weak)
75% hydros
0,9% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
24h(19CF+5RT)

Focaccia with rye and Seeds:
50% Rye
50% Denti Zero+ W250 (weak)
65% hydros
1%  Ady
2% Salt
2% Lard
7 (1+6) All RT

For now, they have been submitted to agents, but in January they will start distributing

More infos andh photos at: http://www.0059.it/2017/11/25/zero-nuove-farine-un-concetto-pizza/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: norma427 on November 25, 2017, 05:31:44 PM
Cicca,

Very nice!

Norma
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 25, 2017, 05:33:54 PM
Cicca,

Very nice!

Norma
Thanks Norma
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Dangerous Salumi on November 29, 2017, 08:07:31 PM
Looks so good.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Dangerous Salumi on November 29, 2017, 08:09:58 PM
Works of art. All of them.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 29, 2017, 08:52:55 PM
Works of art. All of them.
Thanks Dangerous S. ... This is only a commercial test, i hope to use soon these flours in my classroom with real toppings
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on November 30, 2017, 09:54:56 PM
Ciao Antilife,

I read all the thread and I like your work. You don't really talk about it but the key to have such a comb in a crust is the double hydration ("bassinage" in francese). Do you make an autolyse before ?
Anyway, I created a new thread but didn't have any reply yet, I think YOU ARE the guy who could help me  ::)
I experience some trouble when I use the 50L spiral dough mixer even at 2nd speed... Can't get high hydration...
If you have time, can you check this ? https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50378.msg506632#msg506632 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50378.msg506632#msg506632)

Grazie mille ;)

BTW I was in Roma last month  :drool:
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 01, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
Ciao Antilife,

I read all the thread and I like your work. You don't really talk about it but the key to have such a comb in a crust is the double hydration ("bassinage" in francese). Do you make an autolyse before ?
Anyway, I created a new thread but didn't have any reply yet, I think YOU ARE the guy who could help me  ::)
I experience some trouble when I use the 50L spiral dough mixer even at 2nd speed... Can't get high hydration...
If you have time, can you check this ? https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50378.msg506632#msg506632 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50378.msg506632#msg506632)

Grazie mille ;)

BTW I was in Roma last month  :drool:
I don't use Autolyse. Planetary like kitchen-aid reach high hydratation but gluteen structure is really poor. Spiral mixer make a better structure but need to understand how work.every spiral is different from others.the best practice is use a rich/noble gluteen flour (in USA this problem doesn't exist) , the right amount  of flour in the spiral,start at 65% hydratation and in a lot steps add tha other % of water.  If you have problem with spiral try the autolisys technic with the 55% of water. Remember that high hydratation is a mental state, a senseless concept. Structure and final product is the focus. Better a good 75% than an Horrible 90%
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on December 01, 2017, 07:21:07 AM
Antilife,

Thank you for your reply. Next time I'll try the autolyse.
Yeah I know that all the dough mixer could be different, but I don't have enough experience on this equipment to tell. What I know is that no matter which one I used, I had similar results  :-D
The one we use now is like a simple basic one.

I totally agree on the high hydration, but as we say in French, "one can the most, one can the less", meaning if you can do big things, you can also do small things, whereas the contrary doesn't work ^^
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Ogwoodfire on December 03, 2017, 03:55:59 PM
Anti,

Do you ever make this style with Lievito Madre? If so what is your workflow and starter%? I have been making this style on off days and really enjoy it but want to try with SD.

Thanks,
Jay
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 03, 2017, 04:12:48 PM
Anti,

Do you ever make this style with Lievito Madre? If so what is your workflow and starter%? I have been making this style on off days and really enjoy it but want to try with SD.

Thanks,
Jay
Teglia Romana is impossible to make with sourdough. % of sourdough must be so high to belong the final product bad of taste. I work on final product and i think that sourdough is fantastic only for some specific product. Here in italy is a fashion to use the sourdough..... And laughing when i see some people move the sourdough dough in the fridge in maturation. SD is perfect for classic or neapolitan pizza all RT( i make a dough some days ago), bread and panettone-Style. The real masters of sourdough are German Bakers
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Ogwoodfire on December 03, 2017, 10:54:47 PM
Interesting. I thought Bonci made some of his pizzas with Lievito Madre but I could be wrong. Its been a long time since I studied this style, I need to brush up on it. Thank you for the reply, very informative as usual.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on December 04, 2017, 08:35:47 PM
I don't use Autolyse. Planetary like kitchen-aid reach high hydratation but gluteen structure is really poor. Spiral mixer make a better structure but need to understand how work (...)

Hi Antilife,

Can you develop this please ? Don't be afraid to go in the details, we want to learn a lot !   ;D
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 05, 2017, 01:16:46 AM
Hi Antilife,

Can you develop this please ? Don't be afraid to go in the details, we want to learn a lot !   ;D
I give you all informations to develop your manual experience.
If you need to improve yourself for knowledge, you can do a lot of tests wasting doughs.Instead If you do it for commercial purposes I suggest you work with a consultant in your area that can show you manually how to work with high hydrations:time is money.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on December 05, 2017, 07:37:13 AM
I can also buy the flour of my friend and he gives me a free training for pizza pala.

Bonne continuation toi
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: surgtech2006 on December 08, 2017, 05:29:49 PM
I can also buy the flour of my friend and he gives me a free training for pizza pala.

Bonne continuation toi
Yael, which flour is your friend using? It would be great if you would start a thread that would help those of us trying to figure out the techniques used for Romana. I have several flours I'm waiting to try, but nothing solid on workflow at this point.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on December 08, 2017, 08:48:00 PM
Yael, which flour is your friend using? It would be great if you would start a thread that would help those of us trying to figure out the techniques used for Romana. I have several flours I'm waiting to try, but nothing solid on workflow at this point.

Hi Surgtech,

I think that you can use almost whatever flour you want, the technique is more important (as said Varasano, I totally agree on that). The answer's also in this very topic, Antilife's tests have almost same results while he's testings tens of flours. You can have look on my new post here (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50472.new#new), if I can help I will.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on December 10, 2017, 07:37:00 AM
Dough for Pala alla Romana.
Mid Hydratation 

90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
75% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(44CF+4RT)

Purple Potatoes ,Black Datterini,Mora Romagnola Lard
Gorgonzola di Novara, Porcini Mushroom, Cook smoked speck, Honey Mustard

more infos and photos at:  http://www.0059.it/2017/12/10/sviluppo-pale-romane/
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: surgtech2006 on December 21, 2017, 10:39:54 PM
Hi Surgtech,

I think that you can use almost whatever flour you want, the technique is more important (as said Varasano, I totally agree on that). The answer's also in this very topic, Antilife's tests have almost same results while he's testings tens of flours. You can have look on my new post here (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50472.new#new), if I can help I will.
Yael, thanks for the info. I've been too busy at my job to make pizzas at home, hopefully next week I can get back to it!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 01, 2018, 03:49:37 PM
3 Days of Neapolitan Pizza, Panettone and Teglia Romana

Usual Teglia Romana Dough for last year's party:
90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(44CF+4RT)

for Neapolitan Pizza you find in "Neapolitan Style"
Giorilli recipe for Panettone

All photos and info at: http://www.0059.it/2018/01/01/2930-31-auguri/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Dangerous Salumi on January 04, 2018, 06:54:13 PM
Awesome as usual there Antilife (Stefano)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 04, 2018, 07:09:23 PM
Awesome as usual there Antilife (Stefano)
Thanks Dangerous!!! You are always very kind!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 29, 2018, 03:57:40 PM
A week of Courses, Event and Personal Pizza.

I used this dough for a big event in Modena where Daniele Reponi (a famous TV panino maker) and Davide Scappini challange each other with gourmet ingredients using my Teglia Romana

90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
75% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(44CF+5RT)

All photos and info at: http://www.0059.it/2018/01/29/settimana-dantesca/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on January 30, 2018, 06:43:42 PM
I'm going to give your formulation a try fairly soon. It looks fabulous
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on January 30, 2018, 09:12:11 PM
looks great!  :drool: is that moretti electric?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 30, 2018, 09:48:50 PM
Thanks pizapiza and jsaras. That is the Moretti installed in  DentiLab
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on February 10, 2018, 08:39:11 PM
Stefano,

Help me please!  My latest attempt at 75% HR,  14% protein flour, 2% OO, 2.5% salt, and .3% IDY dough.  48 hr cold fermentation.  So how can you help?  This fall, do a class for us pizamaking.com folks.  In Modena!

Paul
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 11, 2018, 05:32:31 AM
Stefano,

Help me please!  My latest attempt at 75% HR,  14% protein flour, 2% OO, 2.5% salt, and .3% IDY dough.  48 hr cold fermentation.  So how can you help?  This fall, do a class for us pizamaking.com folks.  In Modena!

Paul
Teglia Romana is really hard cause the critical points are "Make the Balls" and strecht in pan. After these points the need is to know your oven and how use ingredients in bakin. Your teglia is not bad.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on February 11, 2018, 10:21:40 AM
Teglia Romana is really hard cause the critical points are "Make the Balls" and strecht in pan. After these points the need is to know your oven and how use ingredients in bakin. Your teglia is not bad.

I've watched the videos you've posted about mixing and opening the dough balls.  I still get some unwanted stretch when transferring the opened dough ball to the pan.  At least I can now do the "flip the dough on to the arms" thing. :-D
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 11, 2018, 11:59:31 AM
Dough 1:
90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(44CF+5RT)

Black Dough:
100% Denti Nerissima (mix of rye, vaious seeds and wheat)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(44CF+5RT)

I love the Black dough Toppings need to be simple.

All photos and info at: http://www.0059.it/2018/02/11/t-ingredienti-top-assoluti/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on February 11, 2018, 12:41:28 PM
Antilife,

Have you ever visited the cantine where they age the Culatello di Zibello?

Beautiful teglie, as usual.


Rolls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 11, 2018, 01:16:14 PM
Antilife,

Have you ever visited the cantine where they age the Culatello di Zibello?

Beautiful teglie, as usual.


Rolls
Thanks Rolls, never visited, but i think is a wonderful experience. If you will  return in Italy i can will give some addresses to visit (my address too) 
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on February 11, 2018, 02:25:47 PM
Thanks Rolls, never visited, but i think is a wonderful experience. If you will  return in Italy i can will give some addresses to visit (my address too) 

Thank you Antilife, you are very kind.  Currently, I am unable to travel for health reasons, but I am determined to go back to Italy as soon as I am able. Would love to meet you and learn more about l'arte bianca.

Saluti,


Rolls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: surgtech2006 on February 11, 2018, 05:39:39 PM
Dough 1:
90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(44CF+5RT)

Black Dough:
100% Denti Nerissima (mix of rye, vaious seeds and wheat)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(44CF+5RT)

I love the Black dough Toppings need to be simple.

All photos and info at: http://www.0059.it/2018/02/11/t-ingredienti-top-assoluti/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Just amazing Antilife, amazing!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on March 12, 2018, 07:14:41 PM
Would you recommend the first recipe for a same-day variation on this Roman dough? Did it stretch to size easy enough?

I assume with this recipe you dissolved the active dry yeast in 80% of the water, mixed, and added the remaining 20% of the water?

Testing the new Moretti oven at DentiLAB with my new Denti flours. for 2 different doughs....... keep in touch!!

Pizza in Pala:
100% New Denti Flour W250 (mid streght)
72% hydros
0,35% ady
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
6h(1+5) All RT

Teglia Romana:
90% New Denti Flour W340 (strenght)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h(43CF+5RT)

Great Oven....i changed baking temperature and times understanding how this Moretti works.

More infos andh photos at: http://www.0059.it/2017/11/08/dentilab-un-laboratorio-svezzare/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli/
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 12, 2018, 08:35:15 PM
Would you recommend the first recipe for a same-day variation on this Roman dough? Did it stretch to size easy enough?

I assume with this recipe you dissolved the active dry yeast in 80% of the water, mixed, and added the remaining 20% of the water?
You can use this dough in Pizza in pala because the envelope of dough is poor in only 6houra. If you try to usee this dough in Teglia Romana your pizza will be a terrible structure and taste.Pizza in pala is more simple to use
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 18, 2018, 11:54:38 AM
A long week with two students for a complete course of General Bakery ang.Kneading, doughs and baking  all types of pizza during this week and on Friday an Event of Teglia Romana. These are  some Teglie Romane during the week

10% Durum Durum
90% Denti Zero+ W340
80% hydro
0,7% fresh yeast
2% EVO
2,5% salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

More informations and pizza photos at: http://www.0059.it/2018/03/18/formazione-e-pizza-a-360/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on April 02, 2018, 12:39:03 PM
Dough 1:
90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

Black Dough:
100% Denti Nerissima (mix of rye, vaious seeds and wheat)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(42CF+6RT)

All photos and info at: http://www.0059.it/2018/04/01/feste-e-tavola/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Matthew on May 06, 2018, 05:31:42 AM
Great One To One with Gabriele Valdes, a friend expert in  Roman Teglia.  After a trip in Rome , a great days to exchange experiences  and eat pizzza!!



I am with Gabriele 1st week of June.  Looking forward to it.

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 08, 2018, 05:53:44 AM
Week of Events, Neapolitan and Teglia Romana.

Usual dough for Teglia Romana:

90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/05/08/fine-stagione-1/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli



I am with Gabriele 1st week of June.  Looking forward to it.

Give my greetings to Gabriele. Tell him that the beard without tattoos has no value
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Matthew on May 08, 2018, 06:24:42 AM

Give my greetings to Gabriele. Tell him that the beard without tattoos has no value


Will do.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 22, 2018, 05:38:00 AM
Last Mix created with Molino Denti for Pizza in Pala:

100% Denti Crokkia
75% hydros
0,8% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

Test pre-course of 26th of May "Pizza in Pala" and "Neapolitan Metro"
100% Denti Zero+ W340
75% Hdros
0,1% fresh yeast
3% Lard
3% Salt

All photos and info at: http://www.0059.it/2018/05/21/scaramanzie-pale-panettoni/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Matthew on June 07, 2018, 07:48:58 PM
Great One To One with Gabriele Valdes, a friend expert in  Roman Teglia.  After a trip in Rome , a great days to exchange experiences  and eat pizzza!!

65% Vigevano Flour Costa
15% Senatore Cappelli durum
25% Durum 5Stagioni

80% Hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% EVO

48h(44+4) CF


I'm going to miss this guy!  It was an absolute pleasure to spend the week with a true master.

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 08, 2018, 01:40:35 AM

I'm going to miss this guy!  It was an absolute pleasure to spend the week with a true master.
Gabriele is a real Master, and a Great friend. Try to understand and follow his concepts and your pizza will become a great pizza.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Matthew on June 08, 2018, 06:01:11 AM
Gabriele is a real Master, and a Great friend. Try to understand and follow his concepts and your pizza will become a great pizza.


He certainly is & his pizza was fantastic. 



Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: woodfiredandrew on June 11, 2018, 12:53:59 PM

He certainly is & his pizza was fantastic.

Does Gabriele hold a class? if yes can you provide details? i would appreciate that......
Andy   
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 11, 2018, 01:00:03 PM
Does Gabriele hold a class? if yes can you provide details? i would appreciate that......
Andy
Too late, he is coming back three days ago. He told me about the consulting and. course
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 11, 2018, 04:05:52 PM
Testing my new Lab Oven.


90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/06/11/test-one-teglia-romana/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Matthew on June 11, 2018, 04:32:46 PM
Does Gabriele hold a class? if yes can you provide details? i would appreciate that......
Andy


I have a video of our VIP event where Gabriele was the headliner.  I would be happy to share it once it has been edited. 


Matt
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: woodfiredandrew on June 17, 2018, 05:19:08 PM
Can't wait ..
Thanks Matt
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 18, 2018, 06:18:39 AM

I have a video of our VIP event where Gabriele was the headliner.  I would be happy to share it once it has been edited. 


Matt
Matthew have you ask to Gabriele if you can share this video? I worked with Gabriele and we always permit to record without sharing online. Ask him before sharing please
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Makeatpizza on June 18, 2018, 06:55:59 AM

I have a video of our VIP event where Gabriele was the headliner.  I would be happy to share it once it has been edited. 


Matt

Hi Matthew , nice to meet you here :)
Stefano told me about the video, if you talk about the official video ( edited by the videomaker ), ask first to Francesco, for me thats no problem
Ciao! Gabriele
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 18, 2018, 07:33:11 AM
Hi Matthew , nice to meet you here :)
Stefano told me about the video, if you talk about the official video ( edited by the videomaker ), ask first to Francesco, for me thats no problem
Ciao! Gabriele
The BarbedBear pure qua
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Makeatpizza on June 18, 2018, 08:25:57 AM
The BarbedBear pure qua

Smettila subito 😂
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 29, 2018, 03:49:03 PM
Sorry for the absence ,i was on vacation

This is the most difficult dough to manage but has the result of a 48 hours in 12h


First Dough(100% Biga):
100% Infibra W380
45% Hydros
0,5% Fresh yeast

9 hours all RT  (my SummerBiga 30 grades)

Second Dough:
to 75% Hydros
1% Diastasic Malt
2,5% Salt
2% EVO

1 in mass  and 2 in balls all RT

Don't Try this at Home  ;)

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/07/29/casa-dolce-casa/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli






Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Piezone on July 29, 2018, 07:35:32 PM
Sorry for the absence ,i was on vacation

This is the most difficult dough to manage but has the result of a 48 hours in 12h


First Dough(100% Biga):
100% Infibra W380
45% Hydros
0,5% Fresh yeast

9 hours all RT  (my SummerBiga 30 grades)

Second Dough:
to 75% Hydros
1% Diastasic Malt
2,5% Salt
2% EVO

1 in mass  and 2 in balls all RT

Don't Try this at Home  ;)

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/07/29/casa-dolce-casa/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli

Did you simply add water, salt, malt and EVO to the biga to make the second dough or was there additional flour?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 30, 2018, 02:48:50 AM
Did you simply add water, salt, malt and EVO to the biga to make the second dough or was there additional flour?
No additional flour. Only the other iingredients
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: vtsteve on July 30, 2018, 12:02:11 PM
Bassinage ad absurdum -- I like it! Is there enough initial hydration to show gluten development/rise in the first 9 hours, or does it all happen when you add the final 30% of the total water?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 30, 2018, 03:41:05 PM
Bassinage ad absurdum -- I like it! Is there enough initial hydration to show gluten development/rise in the first 9 hours, or does it all happen when you add the final 30% of the total water?
Biga must be raw mixed enough not to permit the gluten development
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 06, 2018, 02:15:49 PM
Test Pala Romana for a consulting

100% Denti CROKKIA
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+3RT)


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/08/06/pale-e-panettoni-grandi-acclamazioni/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 19, 2018, 09:41:55 AM
90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/08/19/ferragosto-tra-lievito-di-birra-e-madre/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on September 11, 2018, 08:01:27 PM
I'm still working on it!

Your 48 hour method:

100% King Arthur Bread Flour
75% HR
2.5% Salt
2.0% EVOO
0.3% IDY

It worked better for me this time.  I think the stretch and folds at the 24 hours point make a positive difference.  I'm still struggling to get the dough even in the pan!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 11, 2018, 08:04:22 PM
 ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ !!! Great Job Parallei
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on September 11, 2018, 08:29:09 PM
^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ !!! Great Job Parallei

Grazie, Stefano!

I plan to work on this style this fall/winter......we will see. ;D
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: StateofMind on September 12, 2018, 12:28:46 AM
Ive been working on some pizza in teglia style pies lately. Very mixed results buts its fun trying something different.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 21, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

Exploring Toppings


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/10/21/3392/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on October 28, 2018, 08:03:10 PM
I'm still working on this. :(

This dough was made with Kyrol Flour, about 14% Protein.  75% HR, 2.5% Salt, 0.5% IDY, and 2% EVOO. Twenty hours in the fridge and four hours at room temp. 
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: norcoscia on October 28, 2018, 08:27:20 PM
Wow, perfect - time to drop the mic parallei......
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on October 28, 2018, 08:40:21 PM
Wow, perfect - time to drop the mic parallei......

Thanks Norm.  Repeatability is an issue!

I think, maybe, I discovered something for myself yesterday.  I use a Bosch Universal Pro and it does a pretty good job with higher hydration doughs.  In an effort to keep finished dough temps down, I've taken to using fridge temp water (36F in my case).  Yesterday, I used fridge temp water and roughly mixed all the flour and 90% of the water and popped it into the fridge for 30 mins before continuing.  This cold rest seemed to really make incorporating the rest of the water much easier.

I'll try it again next week.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on October 28, 2018, 11:40:48 PM
Thanks Norm.  Repeatability is an issue!

I think, maybe, I discovered something for myself yesterday.  I use a Bosch Universal Pro and it does a pretty good job with higher hydration doughs.  In an effort to keep finished dough temps down, I've taken to using fridge temp water (36F in my case).  Yesterday, I used fridge temp water and roughly mixed all the flour and 90% of the water and popped it into the fridge for 30 mins before continuing.  This cold rest seemed to really make incorporating the rest of the water much easier.

I'll try it again next week.

Yes that's what I've been thinking as well, keep it "cold". Recently when I tried high hydration dough with my home mixer, the result wasn't good and the finished dough temp was quite high (26-27C), resulting in a dough that was too soft. Needs to be stiffer. Thank you for sharing your tips.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on October 29, 2018, 10:34:10 AM
I'm still working on this. :(

This dough was made with Kyrol Flour, about 14% Protein.  75% HR, 2.5% Salt, 0.5% IDY, and 2% EVOO. Twenty hours in the fridge and four hours at room temp.

Looks like you got it worked out to me!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on October 29, 2018, 10:58:37 AM

Looks like you got it worked out to me!

jsaras - your PM inbox is full! I want to pm you about your camera recommendation.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: norcoscia on October 29, 2018, 11:43:31 AM
I don't know if you have seen it but I have a dough, sauce and cheese online calculator (link below). At some point I would like to add an example page that displays photos of the various styles of pizza.

It will be a while before I can get that part working but I would like to use your last picture as an example of a Pizza alla Romana pie.

If OK with you, could you send me a high resolution version of that photo?

www.mypizzamaster.com
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 03, 2018, 01:04:09 AM
I'm still working on this. :(

This dough was made with Kyrol Flour, about 14% Protein.  75% HR, 2.5% Salt, 0.5% IDY, and 2% EVOO. Twenty hours in the fridge and four hours at room temp.
Take careful while stretching! How many grams of dough for pan? Remember that the formula is the Area/2! 
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on November 03, 2018, 09:27:31 AM
jsaras - your PM inbox is full! I want to pm you about your camera recommendation.

Ill get right on that!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on November 03, 2018, 11:20:16 AM
Take careful while stretching!

I'm trying, I'm trying! ;D

How many grams of dough for pan? Remember that the formula is the Area/2! 

600g in my 30 cm x 40 cm, Paderno blue steel pan.  Just like you, the man, say!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: norcoscia on November 03, 2018, 11:39:27 AM
I'm trying, I'm trying! ;D

600g in my 30 cm x 40 cm, Paderno blue steel pan.  Just like you, the man, say!

Thats is -- Dough TF = (0.1198) - no pencil and paper necessary - www.mypizzamaster.com
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 07, 2018, 03:51:30 PM
100% Denti Nerissima (Rye base)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on November 07, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
100% Denti Nerissima (Rye base)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

I didn't think that was possible with rye flour.  Outstanding!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 08, 2018, 12:40:59 PM
I didn't think that was possible with rye flour.  Outstanding!
Thanks jsaras, Nerissima is a mix of flour, rye, wheat and seeds, is really hard to reach high hydros, but is possible. Whit 100% Rye is impossible
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Dangerous Salumi on November 15, 2018, 08:24:19 PM
100% Denti Nerissima (Rye base)
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

 Very cool
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Dangerous Salumi on November 15, 2018, 08:25:22 PM
90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

Exploring Toppings


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/10/21/3392/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli

Yum and yum again
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Dangerous Salumi on November 15, 2018, 08:29:32 PM
Next time we were in Avignon we are going to have to take a trip over to try some of these beautiful dishes you are making.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 16, 2018, 04:05:26 PM
Avignon-Modena is really far, but you are welcome
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Dangerous Salumi on November 16, 2018, 06:39:39 PM
Avignon-Modena is really far, but you are welcome

470 miles with a stop in Monaco depending on the route.
Sounds like big fun. Ill bring it up with my wife tonight.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: faksimile on November 25, 2018, 04:47:53 PM
Hi all,

I am struggling to obtain a decent teglia and the reason might be that i am using the wrong flour.
I am living in belgium so that's the "best" flour I've found so far

I am mixing 60% Surprima, 30% manitoba and 10% semolina with 75% hydration. Even if I am using a kitchen-aid style dough mixer, I've trouble to "close" the dough as seen in some of the videos in the thread.  I add 60% water at the beginning + 10% with CY after 6 min + 5% with salt after approximately 8 min. After the mixing, the dough is super wet, not elastic (the gluten structure break down super easily) and it does not come together. Not sure if i am not mixing it enough (i am using spiral for about 13-15 min in total), the flour used is too weak or the hydration is too high.  Any advice is welcome!

Many thanks


Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 25, 2018, 06:42:16 PM
try to mixx using one hour of autolyse.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 26, 2018, 12:49:07 AM
100% Denti CROKKIA
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

after a wonderful Panettone Course

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/11/26/panettoni-veneziane-e-pale/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: faksimile on November 26, 2018, 06:00:17 AM
try to mixx using one hour of autolyse.

Thanks for the suggestion! Will try in the next batch. Just a quick question: do you think that the flours that i am using are "too weak". Should i look for something with more proteins?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on November 26, 2018, 10:49:14 AM
after a wonderful Panettone Course

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2018/11/26/panettoni-veneziane-e-pale/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli

Antilife,

I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your blog entry on the panettone course.  You are as talented a writer as you are a baker.  Good luck at the Laboratorio.  I really wish I could participate in these events.


Rolls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on November 30, 2018, 12:54:37 AM
It's tough to get the style right. I've actually seen a few bread bakers making amazing Al Taglio - and I think that's because both bread dough and al taglio dough are similar. Highly hydrated, gently handled, baked at a lower temp for a longer period of time, but also that the Al Taglio is usually topped midway through or at the end of the bake.

Ive been working on some pizza in teglia style pies lately. Very mixed results buts its fun trying something different.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 08, 2019, 09:03:36 PM
Antilife,

I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your blog entry on the panettone course.  You are as talented a writer as you are a baker.  Good luck at the Laboratorio.  I really wish I could participate in these events.


Rolls
Thanks Rolls, I hope to see you soon
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 08, 2019, 09:25:29 PM
New Year Pizza......

90% Denti Zero+ W340
10% Semolina
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

he balls needed more time but I had to stretch and bake with dough not ready

More photo and infos: http://www.0059.it/2019/01/04/nuovo-anno-vecchie-tradizioni/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Jackitup on January 08, 2019, 10:29:37 PM
Your pies are consistently freaking spectacular, simply amazing!!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on January 09, 2019, 12:13:46 AM
Next time we were in Avignon we are going to have to take a trip over to try some of these beautiful dishes you are making.

Do you often go to Avignon? My hometown is not far away ^^
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on January 10, 2019, 03:12:18 PM
Hi Antilife,
your pizze are real masterpieces. Could you please tell me what`s the temperature of your CF?
Kind Regards
Peter
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 10, 2019, 03:25:43 PM
Hi Antilife,
your pizze are real masterpieces. Could you please tell me what`s the temperature of your CF?
Kind Regards
Peter
Thanks Pete, my CF is 3C.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on January 11, 2019, 07:45:00 AM
Thanks Pete, my CF is 3C.
Thank you very much! Temp in my fridge is about 7; Ill try to follow your recipe with a little bit less yeast then.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matthew_man93 on January 21, 2019, 05:04:18 PM
Thanks so much for sharing your expertise and experiences on making better pizza's :-)

Your pictures struck me, they look fantastic. You can almost taste them :-D

On your website you're recommending a 10/30/60 distribution of semolina, soft wheat (high W) and soft wheat 0/00, as a general rule, right?
In the Netherlands I have access to flours like Girasole W320-360, Caputo Rossa W300-320 or Spadoni PZ4 for example. Are these recommendable high W flours?
For semolina grana tenero I've found MOLISANA Semola di grano duro rimacinata. Have you tried this semolina flour?
And lastly for a soft wheat flour could I also use Caputo Pizzeria?

Sorry for so many questions, but I'd love to learn about this style!

Thanks,
Matthijs
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 21, 2019, 05:08:59 PM
Hi Matthew, i tryed all these flours.
PIVETTI Girasole is fantastic... The best ot three. Molisana semolina is right, you can use without problem.
Thanks for your words.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matthew_man93 on January 22, 2019, 07:47:34 AM
Thanks for the advice.

So for example 10% Molisana; 60% Girasole; and 30% soft wheat flour?
Any recommendations for soft wheat? Could I use Caputo Pizzeria 00? Or do you only advise to use "typo 0" or typo 1"?

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 22, 2019, 08:09:03 AM
PIVETTI Girasole is soft wheat.
You can use :
10% Semolina
70/80% PIVETTI Girasole
10/20 Caputo Tipo1.... Not 00
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matthew_man93 on January 22, 2019, 09:22:06 AM
I was wondering why you choose for tipo 1 instead of tipo 0/00? Does it give the dough more structure?
Hope I'll can find some. Otherwise I'll try to find the french or german version (type 65 in France or type 812 in Germany).

Kind regards

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 22, 2019, 12:32:38 PM
Not Caputo 00..... PIVETTI is a 00
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matthew_man93 on January 22, 2019, 02:15:27 PM
10/20 Caputo Tipo1.... Not 00

Hm ??? But why do you choose for tipo 1? Does it give better taste or crumb?

sorry for the confusion  ::)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 22, 2019, 02:42:18 PM
Rustic Flavos
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 28, 2019, 07:56:06 PM
100% Denti CROKKIA
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

after a Neapolitan Course, Pala Romana is perfect

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2019/01/29/le-mille-sfaccettature-della-pizza/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matthew_man93 on January 29, 2019, 11:24:10 AM
Thanks for all the help, it's fascinating to learn about all the variables which lead to great pizza :-)

Regarding ovens, do you think there's much difference between an electric pizza oven and a (professional) convection oven?

And you start out with about 65% hydros + all flour and fresh yeast? And you add salt & olive oil later?

Regards
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 29, 2019, 11:35:37 AM
Thanks for all the help, it's fascinating to learn about all the variables which lead to great pizza :-)

Regarding ovens, do you think there's much difference between an electric pizza oven and a (professional) convection oven?


Baking in a convection oven is another kind of baking.....in italy we  say : is another world. I used in some consultings and i changed some variables of baking. Rotor and other kind of convection change completly while baking pizza.

And you start out with about 65% hydros + all flour and fresh yeast? And you add salt & olive oil later?

Regards
yes, salt ,other part of water and oil
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on January 30, 2019, 04:49:01 AM
Salve Antilife,

I dont think it can`t get any better. Fantastic looking pizze again.
Do you use Autolyse, and if, for how long? Do you let the dough rise for a while at room temperature before you put it in the fridge?

Kind Regards
Pete
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 30, 2019, 05:05:38 AM
Hi Pete, i don't use autolyse because flours that i use doesn t need of this technic. After the mix I  leave mass at RT for 1 or 2 hour(winter)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on January 30, 2019, 07:00:41 AM
Thank you very much for your answer! Saw pictures of your other pizzas on your website. Amazing!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matthew_man93 on January 31, 2019, 09:11:24 AM
So much to learn and see! Your work is impressive and consistent.. especially those airholes :) so airy and large. Very nice indeed.

So I sent a local bakery a question regarding W-value of flour (for the W320-W360 Tipo 1 flour) and they told me "W-value" is only used in Italy.
They said I should look for high protein wheat flours (+- 15%). They said its comparable.

Would you agree?

Thanks

EDIT: It isn't "Tipo 1"  flour, but would Manitoba flour tipo 0 also work? For example the ones from Pivetti or Spadoni.

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 31, 2019, 11:21:17 AM
So much to learn and see! Your work is impressive and consistent.. especially those airholes :) so airy and large. Very nice indeed.

So I sent a local bakery a question regarding W-value of flour (for the W320-W360 Tipo 1 flour) and they told me "W-value" is only used in Italy.
They said I should look for high protein wheat flours (+- 15%). They said its comparable.

Would you agree?

Thanks

EDIT: It isn't "Tipo 1"  flour, but would Manitoba flour tipo 0 also work? For example the ones from Pivetti or Spadoni.


Yes  Matthew, W-value is only used here in Italy, but i think that this value is senseless because every flour need to be understended and knowed. In really case is usefull, because here in italy exist some weak flours, but with an high % of protein  .....i.e.  W70 - protein 14%.
Anyway every flour with W 320-360 is perfect for Teglia Romana 48h.
I used for long time high % of manitoba flour. If you find a Manitoba with a good taste use it without problem. In my own opinion more flour is clean and the better it is to taste .......often added gluten, and other improvers make the flour more anonymous
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete-zza on January 31, 2019, 02:48:05 PM
Matthew,

I agree with Antilife, but as a generalization the W value tends to rise with the strength of the flour. See, for example, Reply 15 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4986.msg42545#msg42545

Peter
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 31, 2019, 03:06:18 PM
This "famous" Italian value Table is one of the most stupid Table ever created. W-value is useful only to choose a kind of Flour i need, as you out of italy use % of protein
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 10, 2019, 06:05:40 PM
10% Semolina
70% Denti Zero+ w340
10% Denti Zero+ w250
10% Denti Infibra Tipo1  w380
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

proof of Toppings for our resale

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2019/02/10/la-qualita-in-produzione/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matthew_man93 on February 11, 2019, 07:01:04 PM
Great bake!  I was wondering about Teglia/Romana in general: Is there usually a crispy bottom? And how long do you bake it?

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matheusamorim on February 11, 2019, 10:48:25 PM
Hi folks!
All the evo, yeast, salt and sugar percentages are related to flour, water or the entire receipt? Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 12, 2019, 01:35:10 AM
Great bake!  I was wondering about Teglia/Romana in general: Is there usually a crispy bottom? And how long do you bake it?

Thanks :)
Yes Mathew,crispy bottom is important in teglia romana
I bake total 11/12 minutes
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 12, 2019, 01:35:23 AM
Hi folks!
All the evo, yeast, salt and sugar percentages are related to flour, water or the entire receipt? Thanks!
Yes Matheus
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Liornfib on February 14, 2019, 06:09:54 AM
Such an amazing post! Thanks for all who take part.

I had my try with a taglia pizza. Tried it with t550 German. Came out nice and chrispy, but not open enough crumb.

Will look further for the correct flour, will opt my hydration and technic and try again with all I have learned here.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 14, 2019, 06:32:55 AM
Such an amazing post! Thanks for all who take part.

I had my try with a taglia pizza. Tried it with t550 German. Came out nice and chrispy, but not open enough crumb.

Will look further for the correct flour, will opt my hydration and technic and try again with all I have learned here.
Managing the dough and correct phases balls and stretching are really important
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matheusamorim on February 14, 2019, 10:00:07 PM
Yes Matheus

hahaha i'm sorry, i did not express myself properly.
What i tried to ask was:
How do you calculate percentages?
It's based on:

1) Flour?
2) Water? or
3) Entire receipt?

I want to share my experience and don't know how.
Sorry and thank you!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 15, 2019, 01:04:24 AM
hahaha i'm sorry, i did not express myself properly.
What i tried to ask was:
How do you calculate percentages?
It's based on:

1) Flour?
2) Water? or
3) Entire receipt?

I want to share my experience and don't know how.
Sorry and thank you!
My %s are based on flour
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: ira on February 15, 2019, 07:41:25 PM
hahaha i'm sorry, i did not express myself properly.
What i tried to ask was:
How do you calculate percentages?

Everything is listed as the percentage weight of flour, so if you use 1 kilo of flour and 600 grams of water, flour is listed as 100%, water as 60%.

Ira
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matheusamorim on February 17, 2019, 12:07:09 AM
Everything is listed as the percentage weight of flour, so if you use 1 kilo of flour and 600 grams of water, flour is listed as 100%, water as 60%.

Ira

Ok, understood!
Thank you!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 03, 2019, 06:07:14 PM
Usual dough...... test on toppings

Finally we are ready to build our first Teglia Romana reseller. The name is FERMENTUM that mean Sourdough in latin

10% Semolina
90% Denti Zero+ w340
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2019/03/04/siamo-tutto-un-fermentum/

here you can find some photos during my last Teglia Romana course:  http://www.0059.it/2019/02/25/consulenzecorsi-e-pizza/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: medium.rare on March 14, 2019, 01:37:21 PM
Antilife, your Pizze look gorgeous!
I recently bought a P134H LE and when I saw this thread yesterday I immediately bought a fitting sheet pan. I have to give this a try over the weekend  ;D
When do you put the tomato sauce on the dough? Before baking or after a couple of minutes?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 14, 2019, 01:47:36 PM
Antilife, your Pizze look gorgeous!
I recently bought a P134H LE and when I saw this thread yesterday I immediately bought a fitting sheet pan. I have to give this a try over the weekend  ;D
When do you put the tomato sauce on the dough? Before baking or after a couple of minutes?
Tomatoes before baking. After the first baking, add mozzarella and finish baking for 3/4 minutes
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on March 14, 2019, 08:49:43 PM
Antilife,

I've got a question, and I think you'll be able to give me a reply. Well, a couple of questions, about pala and teglia style.

I read before in this very thread that you said there were "teglia a la romana", and "teglia classica". Can you describe the difference(s)?
Are there the same classification with pala ? "Pala classica" and "pala a la romana"? Because I already read "pizza pala a la romana" in some Italian website.

And basically, my main question, is there a difference in the dough between pala and teglia?? You made pizza pala in this thread before, and the dough formula and procedure was the same as when you make teglia.
When I make these styles, I also make the same dough, and I just bake it differently.

Why these questions, because some of my friends told me those 2 styles pala/teglia were totally different, l'impasto was different. And I think it's not. Let me know what you think about it, thanks a lot.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 15, 2019, 01:09:44 AM
Antilife,

I've got a question, and I think you'll be able to give me a reply. Well, a couple of questions, about pala and teglia style.

I read before in this very thread that you said there were "teglia a la romana", and "teglia classica". Can you describe the difference(s)?
Are there the same classification with pala ? "Pala classica" and "pala a la romana"? Because I already read "pizza pala a la romana" in some Italian website.

And basically, my main question, is there a difference in the dough between pala and teglia?? You made pizza pala in this thread before, and the dough formula and procedure was the same as when you make teglia.
When I make these styles, I also make the same dough, and I just bake it differently.

Why these questions, because some of my friends told me those 2 styles pala/teglia were totally different, l'impasto was different. And I think it's not. Let me know what you think about it, thanks a lot.
Difference are really simple;
Exist Teglia Clsssica,Teglia Romana and Pizza in Pala.
TR and PP use similiar high hydros dough but are baking differently...PP is baking like Neapolitan but at 310 degree,These dough levain in balls, stretch fast and baked. TC is completly different because the balls phase is short and levain all the timein the pan, using a low hydros dough similar to neapolitan dough.you can find rhese difference reading previous post in this thread
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Yael on March 15, 2019, 01:38:54 AM
Difference are really simple;
Exist Teglia Clsssica,Teglia Romana and Pizza in Pala.
TR and PP use similiar high hydros dough but are baking differently...PP is baking like Neapolitan but at 310 degree,These dough levain in balls, stretch fast and baked. TC is completly different because the balls phase is short and levain all the timein the pan, using a low hydros dough similar to neapolitan dough.you can find rhese difference reading previous post in this thread

Ok that confirms what I thought, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 17, 2019, 06:29:50 PM
Pala Romana in Double Dough:

100% Denti CROKKIA
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(42CF+6RT)

100% Denti Mammm
85% hydros
0,8% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(42CF+6RT)

Pizza is SlowFood

More photos and infos: http://www.0059.it/2019/03/17/new-bakery-lab-e-fermentum/

Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: matheusamorim on March 18, 2019, 12:53:52 PM
Antilife, i have some questions:

- All your pala / teglia pizzas are baked in two phases?
- After these two phases, is it possible to warm a slice without losing quality?
- Do you put toppings like spinach or parma (which is usually served raw) on slice warm up?

I'm asking all these because i see many places selling teglia / pala in showcases, already fully mounted, and they still put the slice in the oven when you buy.

Thank you!


Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 18, 2019, 02:30:07 PM


Antilife, i have some questions:

- All your pala / teglia pizzas are baked in two phases?
- After these two phases, is it possible to warm a slice without losing quality?
- Do you put toppings like spinach or parma (which is usually served raw) on slice warm up?

I'm asking all these because i see many places selling teglia / pala in showcases, already fully mounted, and they still put the slice in the oven when you buy.

Thank you!

1) yes ,  i bake teglia/Pala always in 2 phases
2)pala and teglia are better eated warmed after a lot of hours.
3) when i warm the slices, I remove each problematic ingredient like Parma and reuse after warming
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on April 26, 2019, 03:45:45 PM
Salve Antilife,

can you please tell me what the semolina is good for in the dough.
Does it help to bind the water or does it make the crust crunchier?

Cheers
Peter
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on April 26, 2019, 10:20:33 PM
Help the inner strutture, and keep the dough less boubled. In my own opinion, semolina is the Flour more important for Teglia Romana, and i need of the best Semolina that i find
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on April 27, 2019, 03:17:13 AM
Help the inner strutture, and keep the dough less boubled. In my own opinion, semolina is the Flour more important for Teglia Romana, and i need of the best Semolina that i find
Thanks for your answer and your explanation. I have Divella Semola rimacinata. Would that be o.k.? We dont have a big choice of semolina in Germany, but do you have any recomendations? I might look for it on our next trip to Italy.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on April 27, 2019, 12:20:11 PM
Yes, is good
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: schneich on June 02, 2019, 04:21:19 PM
hi Antilife,

I posted this in a wrong part fo the forum, someone pointed me to you :-)


after many endeavors into pizza Napoletana I am going to do a pizza al taglio concept.
I have several questions going more into the operations side of this pizza style:

I would like to know what the shelf life of a baked and dressed pizza in the display case usually is?

do you know if the best taglio places in Rome also always offer to reheat the pieces?

do you know any new taglio chains that are starting up at the moment in the US?

what do you think of triple beam pizza, and would you think it qualifies as pp ?



cheers from cologne, Germany


torsten
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 02, 2019, 08:45:51 PM


hi Antilife,

I posted this in a wrong part fo the forum, someone pointed me to you :-)


after many endeavors into pizza Napoletana I am going to do a pizza al taglio concept.
I have several questions going more into the operations side of this pizza style:

I would like to know what the shelf life of a baked and dressed pizza in the display case usually is?

do you know if the best taglio places in Rome also always offer to reheat the pieces?

do you know any new taglio chains that are starting up at the moment in the US?

what do you think of triple beam pizza, and would you think it qualifies as pp ?



cheers from cologne, Germany


torsten

1) 8/12h at RT, but every Toppings change the shelf life

2) In my own opinion best pizza al taglio are Bonci ' Pizzarium and Mirko Rizzo' Pommidoro

3)No, i don' t  know, i know Bonci  Pizzarium open 2 Pizzerie

4)I don't know Triple Beam Pizza. Is really difficult that i follow pizza not made in Italy
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: schneich on June 03, 2019, 06:46:19 AM
hi, thanks for your answers but let me specify:

what du you think for example how long the shelf life for a bufalina topped with fresh buffalo mozzarella, cherry tomatoes and fresh basil is?

and for a pizza topped with prosciutto di parma or salame or mortadella ?

at what % a normal running al teglio shop throws pizza in the garbage ??


cheers

t.

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 04, 2019, 02:37:04 PM
hi, thanks for your answers but let me specify:

what du you think for example how long the shelf life for a bufalina topped with fresh buffalo mozzarella, cherry tomatoes and fresh basil is?

and for a pizza topped with prosciutto di parma or salame or mortadella ?

at what % a normal running al teglio shop throws pizza in the garbage ??


cheers

t.

It's really Simple... Toppings withmeat and fish has a short shelf life. You can use a fridge display case to gain more hours
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: tfox39 on June 15, 2019, 11:48:31 AM

10% Semolina
90% Denti Zero+ w340
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)


What specific kind of semolina are you using here?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 15, 2019, 12:48:10 PM
A Good 'Semola Rimacinata'
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: tfox39 on June 20, 2019, 06:01:56 PM
Flour 100% 335g (301g of caputo, 34g of semolina rimacinata)
Water 80% 268g
Salt 2.5% 8.375g
EVOO 2% - 6.7g
IDY 0.4% 1.34g
Total 619.415
Ended up with a 24 hr CF and 2 hr RT

I tried doing a test batch with the above formula (first Taglio attempt) with some leftover chef's flour that I had. The pizza actually tasted fine to me, but there's obviously much to work on with it being only the first bake. After mixing the dough, I left it out at room temp for an hour and it was already very active (many visible air pockets under the mixing bowl). Maybe I should have cut the time or IDY % down because it is about 85f/29c here. Or would leaving it in the fridge for an hour be better? I want to try pushing it to a 48hr CF. Would it be best to just start with cutting the IDY in half with the temperature we are having here? Or should I be more concerned about the stretching/folding in such a high temp that I should cut it down further?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 20, 2019, 11:57:40 PM
You Need to give more time to RT so the ball lose  tenacity to stretch. For the fist time is a good test..... Remember that a Teglia with tomatoes and mozzarella is really hard to grow
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: tfox39 on June 21, 2019, 09:56:21 AM
You Need to give more time to RT so the ball lose  tenacity to stretch. For the fist time is a good test..... Remember that a Teglia with tomatoes and mozzarella is really hard to grow
But you wouldn't cut down IDY to stretch my CF? Also, what is a good starting point for trying sourdough yeast for 48hr CF? Does around 7% seem right? (Basing that off a recipe calling for 15% or so for 24hr CF).

I did leave off the mozzarella until the last few minutes, but I'm sure between the weight of the sauce and also my uneven stretching, it didn't help the growth of the pizza. Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 21, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Sourdough is not good for teglia romana. You need of power and balance of taste
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on June 22, 2019, 07:46:54 AM
You could try making a biga a day or two ahead. Use that together with some yeast to get more flavour and good rising power.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on August 24, 2019, 08:53:10 PM
Stefano, when you make these beautiful Pizza in Teglia's, and you ferment the bulk for 48 hours in the fridge, are you looking for the bulk dough to double in the fridge, or increase by 20%, 30%, or does it not matter?

How about when you make 48 hour fridge doughs for Pizza Napoletana?

The reason I ask, is that my fridge tends to run quite cold - closer to 0 to 2C, and sometimes the bulk dough stops rising completely. Wondering if that's normal, or if I should really make sure I am at 4C exactly.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 25, 2019, 09:07:50 AM
From 30% to double
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 25, 2019, 11:05:54 AM
You could try making a biga a day or two ahead. Use that together with some yeast to get more flavour and good rising power.
There's my 100% biga that i love, but is an emergency dough. When i have no time or space in fridge
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: tfox39 on August 25, 2019, 12:59:22 PM
Could you post a photo of what your dough looks like when you take it out of the fridge to sit at room temp?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on August 26, 2019, 12:22:18 PM
From 30% to double

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 30, 2019, 05:46:18 PM
Could you post a photo of what your dough looks like when you take it out of the fridge to sit at room temp?
Here one photo of my new doughs... Before balls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on September 05, 2019, 01:06:40 PM
Looks amazingly puffy! Stefano, I tried this recipe from your website and was very happy with the results! I used 90% Caputo Cuoco and 10% Caputo Semola. Thanks for sharing:

http://www.0059.it/teglia-romana-48h/

Question: For pizza in pala, have you ever tried mixing wheat flour, rice flour, soy flour and dry sourdough to emulate Pinsa Romana? If so, how do you like it? I read on other posts that a few folks have tried to add soy flour to their dough and it ended up smelling weird, so I'm wondering if it's even worth trying. Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 05, 2019, 01:36:16 PM
With Molino Denti we creating CROKKIA mix for Pala Romana and Pinsa, using rice Flour and dried sourdough but with out soy because is an allergen and in the future probably will be unused.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on September 05, 2019, 01:46:04 PM
Makes sense to me. What % rice flour would you recommend adding to a pizza in pala flour blend as a starting point? I was thinking 15% based on this recipe, just not sure how accurate the recipe is:

https://www.silviocicchi.com/pizzachef/impasto-pizza-tipo-pinsa-romana/?lang=en
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on September 05, 2019, 02:23:53 PM
If I understood correctly the rice flour gives mostly starches, and the soy flour gives gluten?  I saw a similar dough made by the brotherhood and it was incredibly strong even at very high hydration.  Was quite amazing!  Can't remember it smelling strange, but not sure I smelled the dough itself..
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 05, 2019, 02:27:11 PM
Makes sense to me. What % rice flour would you recommend adding to a pizza in pala flour blend as a starting point? I was thinking 15% based on this recipe, just not sure how accurate the recipe is:

https://www.silviocicchi.com/pizzachef/impasto-pizza-tipo-pinsa-romana/?lang=en
Douuball, your taste is the best  councilor. Try it with 10 and after 15
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on September 05, 2019, 03:18:27 PM
Thanks Stefano!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on September 14, 2019, 03:01:31 AM
Antilife,

Im trying to learn how to make both Teglia and Pala. I am hand mixing, and am not exceeding 75% total hydration based on your recommendations for hand mixing.

I noticed, most of your fermentation seems to involve a long cold ferment component. Im looking to do these with minimal cold ferment (maybe overnight) but ideally, same day.

So I think these questions seem relevant for someone like me, who wants to do these same day or room temp.

1. What volume increase are you looking for in the bulk dough before dividing and shaping? Double? 50%? 20% to 30%? I feel like this might be a good way for someone like me to judge when to shape. For example, I think I shaped a batch too early last time and it flattened out in my trays.

2. What volume increase are you looking for in the dough ball before stretching? Double in size? As puffy as possible? Id imagine, the more air in the dough at this stage the more holes in the finished crust.

3. Finally, would these principles apply to both teglia and pala style pizzas, or do you look for different things in these doughs?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on September 15, 2019, 09:29:49 AM


Antilife,

Im trying to learn how to make both Teglia and Pala. I am hand mixing, and am not exceeding 75% total hydration based on your recommendations for hand mixing.

I noticed, most of your fermentation seems to involve a long cold ferment component. Im looking to do these with minimal cold ferment (maybe overnight) but ideally, same day.

So I think these questions seem relevant for someone like me, who wants to do these same day or room temp.

1. What volume increase are you looking for in the bulk dough before dividing and shaping? Double? 50%? 20% to 30%? I feel like this might be a good way for someone like me to judge when to shape. For example, I think I shaped a batch too early last time and it flattened out in my trays.

2. What volume increase are you looking for in the dough ball before stretching? Double in size? As puffy as possible? Id imagine, the more air in the dough at this stage the more holes in the finished crust.

3. Finally, would these principles apply to both teglia and pala style pizzas, or do you look for different things in these doughs?

1) 30 to 50%
2) as poofy as possible
3) doughs are really similar (big difference is rice flours). The baking make the difference between pala e teglia
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on September 16, 2019, 12:12:05 AM
Thank you! I'm finding this a fun style to learn. Now, shaping the balls for me is a totally different story. They don't look nearly as smooth or tight as Bonci's dough but that likely comes with practice.


1) 30 to 50%
2) as poofy as possible
3) doughs are really similar (big difference is rice flours). The baking make the difference between pala e teglia
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on October 18, 2019, 07:42:22 PM
Antilife,

Your tips have helped me a lot and my pala style pies are getting much better.

I had a question about how long you keep the dough in balls. Some places, like Roscioli and Sullivan Street Bakery seem to form balls 10 to 30 minutes before use. Other places, like Bonci, seem to form balls and will hold them for a while.

Which method do you prefer and why?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 18, 2019, 08:29:30 PM
Antilife,

Your tips have helped me a lot and my pala style pies are getting much better.

I had a question about how long you keep the dough in balls. Some places, like Roscioli and Sullivan Street Bakery seem to form balls 10 to 30 minutes before use. Other places, like Bonci, seem to form balls and will hold them for a while.

Which method do you prefer and why?
I give 5 hours RT to ball before baking
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on October 18, 2019, 09:43:13 PM
This is pretty much right on with my timeline given the stage of the bulk - thanks! (Have been holding the bulk cold for logistical reasons so I'm forming the balls cool - it takes about 5 hours for them to fully warm and expand a bit.)

That being said, the bake on my pizza bianca has been somewhat uneven - mostly some thin bubbles, runaway bubbles, or uneveness. I think it may be due to my dimpling of the pizza - should the dimpling be relatively light, or pretty forceful and a lot of dimples?

I've been doing very gentle dimples and just enough to get it to size.

I give 5 hours RT to ball before baking
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on November 01, 2019, 10:22:59 PM
Does anyone uses malted flour for this style, or is it typically unmalted flour?

I had caputo red flour and since its higher protein I thought Id give it a shot. It was really pale and not great compared to the KABF Ive been using.

Does anyone have any thoughts on malted vs unmalted flour for Taglio/Pala/Pinsa?

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 02, 2019, 03:27:44 AM
Does anyone uses malted flour for this style, or is it typically unmalted flour?

I had caputo red flour and since its higher protein I thought Id give it a shot. It was really pale and not great compared to the KABF Ive been using.

Does anyone have any thoughts on malted vs unmalted flour for Taglio/Pala/Pinsa?
I use Diastasic Malt when i make Teglia with 100% Biga to compensate the long hours of fermentation.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: readefoong on November 06, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
Hi Antlife,

Can you or anyone explain the difference between Pizza alla Romana, foccacia and sfincione please?

Your pizzas look great, love the crumb structure 😁
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on November 06, 2019, 07:41:54 AM
Hi Antlife,

Can you or anyone explain the difference between Pizza alla Romana, foccacia and sfincione please?

Your pizzas look great, love the crumb structure
Hi readefoong,
Differences are really simple.
Pizza alla romana levain in ball, after stretch in pan and bake while focaccia and sfincione levain directly in pan.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: kaham47 on January 09, 2020, 12:53:52 PM
Hi,

Most of the dough formula for pizza alla romana I see here seem to call for 0,7% yeast, no matter what the (cold) fermentation time is. Does it not matter ?

Thank you for your insight.

KH
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on January 09, 2020, 07:31:06 PM
Hi,

Most of the dough formula for pizza alla romana I see here seem to call for 0,7% yeast, no matter what the (cold) fermentation time is. Does it not matter ?

Thank you for your insight.

KH
Yeast is calculated on fermentation at RT. In my opinion COLD Fermentation is maturation of dough and yeast need to stay in Stasis Mode, with a low progression ( very low) of fermentation.


Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: kaham47 on January 11, 2020, 01:10:39 PM
Yeast is calculated on fermentation at RT. In my opinion COLD Fermentation is maturation of dough and yeast need to stay in Stasis Mode, with a low progression ( very low) of fermentation.

It makes a lot of sense ! Thank you Antilife.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 11, 2020, 09:28:45 AM
Usual and simple dough that i make Every day in my Lab and Reselling

10% Semolina
90% Denti Zero+ w340
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)

https://www.facebook.com/0059fermentum/videos/1114889375520832/ (https://www.facebook.com/0059fermentum/videos/1114889375520832/)

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2020/02/02/ogni-maledetto-giorno/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on March 15, 2020, 02:44:49 PM
Pizza in Pala Romana

100 Denti Crokkia
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2020/03/15/alziamo-le-pale-e-combattiamo/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on May 21, 2020, 12:24:23 PM
Pizza in Pala Romana

100 Denti Crokkia
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(43CF+5RT)


More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2020/03/15/alziamo-le-pale-e-combattiamo/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli

Beautiful pizza as always. If you have 48h or longer to make Pizza in Pala, do you prefer a direct dough like this one, or do you prefer a biga based dough? I have seen a number of biga based doughs on your thread - seems like you mostly use them for shorter fermentation times? Thanks,

Alex
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 22, 2020, 12:31:06 AM
Beautiful pizza as always. If you have 48h or longer to make Pizza in Pala, do you prefer a direct dough like this one, or do you prefer a biga based dough? I have seen a number of biga based doughs on your thread - seems like you mostly use them for shorter fermentation times? Thanks,

Alex
Yes Doouball, i use preferments to accelerate doughs. If i have no time for usual 48h or no space in fridge i use preferments and RT to make pizza
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on May 22, 2020, 11:06:09 AM
Yes Doouball, i use preferments to accelerate doughs. If i have no time for usual 48h or no space in fridge i use preferments and RT to make pizza

Thanks Stefano! I have been enjoying using biga together with fridge ferment of the bulk and dough balls and it is definitely a bit harder because the dough blows up aggressively in the fridge, unlike direct dough, and I have to fold it to prevent it from exploding. Taste is nice though.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 19, 2020, 06:09:20 AM
Whole Wheat Pala Romana:

100% Denti Infibra+
85% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h(43CF+5RT)

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2020/06/19/integralismo-pala/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on June 19, 2020, 04:52:17 PM
Mannagia, 85% with whole wheat flour!  Congratulations!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 19, 2020, 08:14:18 PM
Mannagia, 85% with whole wheat flour!  Congratulations!
Mannaggia is fantastic ... Thanks
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pizza_Not_War on June 21, 2020, 04:39:17 PM
I attempted the whole wheat version with Bobs Redmill Organic WW. It was delicious, but really lacked the crumb structure on your pics. It was also really easy to handle for an 85% hydration. I suspect our WW is different than what you used.

Didn't think of pictures till it was gone and was a bit underwhelmed by the look of it.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on July 07, 2020, 12:26:31 PM
Antilife,

Do you have a thickness factor or doughball weight you like to use for a given size for taglio? I'm looking for a proper weight for a 12" x 18" sheet pan
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on July 07, 2020, 12:33:40 PM
I'd say that 700-750g of dough would be alright for that kind of pan.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on July 07, 2020, 02:17:15 PM
Antilife,

Do you have a thickness factor or doughball weight you like to use for a given size for taglio? I'm looking for a proper weight for a 12" x 18" sheet pan
The formula: area in cm : 2 = weight of the doughball in g. I usually add 10% on top.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Gene in Acadiana on July 07, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Antilife,

Do you have a thickness factor or doughball weight you like to use for a given size for taglio? I'm looking for a proper weight for a 12" x 18" sheet pan

Bonci states that the formula is pan length (cm) X width (cm) X .5 = dough ball weight in grams. This formula has worked fine for me.

So for a 12"x18" pan, Bonci's formula works out to be 697 grams.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 07, 2020, 05:16:39 PM
Antilife,

Do you have a thickness factor or doughball weight you like to use for a given size for taglio? I'm looking for a proper weight for a 12" x 18" sheet pan

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40750.msg468913#msg468913 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40750.msg468913#msg468913)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on July 07, 2020, 11:04:31 PM
Bonci states that the formula is pan length (cm) X width (cm) X .5 = dough ball weight in grams. This formula has worked fine for me.

So for a 12"x18" pan, Bonci's formula works out to be 697 grams.
That works out to be a thickness factor of 0.114
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 08, 2020, 07:46:25 PM
To the Moderators:

This thread has been read about 40k times. It contains the best information on this style of pizza and the original poster has been more than generous with sharing information. Please consider granting this thread "Sticky Status".
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete-zza on July 08, 2020, 08:04:14 PM
To the Moderators:

This thread has been read about 40k times. It contains the best information on this style of pizza and the original poster has been more than generous with sharing information. Please consider granting this thread "Sticky Status".
Paul,

I agree. Done.

Peter
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Redcrust on July 12, 2020, 12:09:23 AM
Thank you so much, Stefano! Your bread always looks amazing! :drool: You are so kind and so patient in answering all questions! Thanks for sharing so many recipes and details. I will be practicing with some 72 hr dough tomorrow. Wish me luck. Thanks again for helping everyone out. You're the best!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 12, 2020, 04:49:33 AM
Thank you so much, Stefano! Your bread always looks amazing! :drool: You are so kind and so patient in answering all questions! Thanks for sharing so many recipes and details. I will be practicing with some 72 hr dough tomorrow. Wish me luck. Thanks again for helping everyone out. You're the best!
Thanks for fantastic words. I understand the problems of amateur  pizzamakers, because first of all, despite now i m Professional I remain an amateur. Remember that all the informations are under our eyes... We need only to connect these informations
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on July 13, 2020, 11:49:40 AM
So I did 750ish grams for a 12 x 16. Tried a pizza bianca but I get huge runaway bubbles (see photo.) any idea why this is happening?

Edit: this was a 73 water + 2 oil dough - 48h cold + 24h cold. Balls were pretty chilly when I stretched and baked
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on July 13, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
I've had this happen a few times when I did the finger docking with too light of a touch. You really need to press hard enough to feel the surface under the pizza dough, but not so hard as to poke holes in the dough.

This can also happen if you forget to drizzle olive oil on top prior to baking. With nothing to hold the dough down, it sometimes develops huge pockets like this.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on July 13, 2020, 12:23:28 PM
I do a very light dimple so that makes sense. I worry about knocking the air out or messing up the crumb.

I've had this happen a few times when I did the finger docking with too light of a touch. You really need to press hard enough to feel the surface under the pizza dough, but not so hard as to poke holes in the dough.

This can also happen if you forget to drizzle olive oil on top prior to baking. With nothing to hold the dough down, it sometimes develops huge pockets like this.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on July 13, 2020, 01:28:35 PM
I do a very light dimple so that makes sense. I worry about knocking the air out or messing up the crumb.

The way I intuitively understand this process is that when you dimple, you essentially turn the large air pockets into a matrix of medium sized bubbles (maybe 1-3cm in size each). This way, you are managing the bubble structure and creating the hills and valleys of the final product. I'd like to see what Stefano has to say on this.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 13, 2020, 02:09:05 PM
So I did 750ish grams for a 12 x 16. Tried a pizza bianca but I get huge runaway bubbles (see photo.) any idea why this is happening?

Edit: this was a 73 water + 2 oil dough - 48h cold + 24h cold. Balls were pretty chilly when I stretched and baked
The problem is the stretching in pan. One of the most difficult step to learn. You need to try and try and obtain the right skill. I spet 2 years to try, every wednesday..
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 13, 2020, 02:18:11 PM
The problem is the stretching in pan. One of the most difficult step to learn. You need to try and try and obtain the right skill. I spet 2 years to try, every wednesday..

Stefano,

Don't you also let the dough rest at room temperature for a few hours after removing it from the refrigerator prior to stretching the dough?

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 13, 2020, 02:57:02 PM
Stefano,

Don't you also let the dough rest at room temperature for a few hours after removing it from the refrigerator prior to stretching the dough?
I move to RT, make immediatly balls and wait the leavening. After that, stretch ball in pan and bake
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: parallei on July 13, 2020, 03:16:58 PM
I move to RT, make immediatly balls and wait the leavening. After that, stretch ball in pan and bake

Thanks, that is what I remembered. Looking back, it seems I let my doughs sat at RT, after CF, for about three or four hours. My dough really improved when I started following your management method!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on July 13, 2020, 03:21:08 PM
My dough really improved when I started following your management method!

Same here.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on July 13, 2020, 03:50:18 PM
Looking back, it seems I let my doughs sat at RT, after CF, for about three or four hours.

I've been comparing the workflow of several well known makers of this style and they all form the balls once the dough mass has been removed from the fridge.  The appretto or final proofing stage takes place at room temperature and usually lasts between 3 and 4 hours.  This is also what is prescribed in the disciplinare for Pizza in Teglia alla Romana put out by the Confraternita della Pizza.


Rolls 
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on July 13, 2020, 03:54:41 PM
There is another current discussion about bubbles when baking thinner round pizza.  Someone said that it's the result of using dough that is too cold.

I'd also suggest more firm dimpling, some oil on top, and find some utensil to puncture the bubbles and to push them down.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 13, 2020, 04:04:37 PM
I've been comparing the workflow of several well known makers of this style and they all form the balls once the dough mass has been removed from the fridge.  The appretto or final proofing stage takes place at room temperature and usually lasts between 3 and 4 hours.  This is also what is prescribed in the disciplinare for Pizza in Teglia alla Romana put out by the Confraternita della Pizza.


Rolls
that document, like every disciplinare(neapolitan and teglia romana) are created only for business purposes... Remember my old words... NEVER TRUST TO. PIZZAIOLO .

Each times Caputo make a new Flour... AVPN add that kind of Flour to Disciplinare. The same Confraternita della pizza...they make disciplinare to sell their courses. Here in italy is always the same story...
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on July 13, 2020, 08:16:12 PM
that document, like every disciplinare(neapolitan and teglia romana) are created only for business purposes... Remember my old words... NEVER TRUST TO. PIZZAIOLO .

Each times Caputo make a new Flour... AVPN add that kind of Flour to Disciplinare. The same Confraternita della pizza...they make disciplinare to sell their courses. Here in italy is always the same story...

And here I was wondering why Denti Anima Verace wasn't required by the AVPN to make Neapolitan pizza :)
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on July 13, 2020, 10:33:45 PM
Thats why I created the Denominazione Di Origine Camarillo, the other DOC.  I create the rules!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Rolls on July 14, 2020, 12:26:14 AM
that document, like every disciplinare(neapolitan and teglia romana) are created only for business purposes... Remember my old words... NEVER TRUST TO. PIZZAIOLO .

Each times Caputo make a new Flour... AVPN add that kind of Flour to Disciplinare. The same Confraternita della pizza...they make disciplinare to sell their courses. Here in italy is always the same story...

But your own instructions for Teglia Romana say the same thing as the other pizzaioli and the disciplinare, so who am I supposed to trust?:-D

Bakery Lab 0059 ---->  "4 ore prima di cuocere stagliare a freddo e mettere a temperatura ambiente."


Rolls
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 14, 2020, 12:26:16 AM
And here I was wondering why Denti Anima Verace wasn't required by the AVPN to make Neapolitan pizza :)
DENTI Anima Verace is "AVPN approved" ...
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 14, 2020, 12:31:35 AM
But your own instructions for Teglia Romana say the same thing as the other pizzaioli and the disciplinare, so who am I supposed to trust? :-D

Bakery Lab 0059 ---->  "4 ore prima di cuocere stagliare a freddo e mettere a temperatura ambiente."


Rolls
Rolls... Doesn t exist rules.... Bakery concepts leads.
Modern Teglia Romana is created on beginning 1990 by great Pizzaiolo Angelo Iezzi..... Bonci after 15 years use this Pizza melting with some news toppings
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Adrien on August 20, 2020, 12:12:22 PM
Antlife...thanks for this thread! Love all your doughs and toppings keep them coming!

I have finally produced some nice sourdough pizza a taglio today..inspired by this thread and others!

70% strong white bread flour (shipton mill)
30% double milled durum semolina (gilchester organics)
80% hydration
15% starter, 100% hydration
2% salt
5% olive oil

Made a biga, then finished dough in machine to full development - fridge for 72h. Then very light shaping before waiting for it to double again. I adapted the following recipe and technique for sourdough - https://profumodilievito.blogspot.com/2009/11/la-pizza-in-teglia-croccante.html?m=1&fbclid=IwAR3bcx9KXsWl3uuvVvS91QCVAAxbkW3Hp6eV05Q4PFzfjjc4Fmwi_Uv9k64

Cooked the first tray on bottom oven just with tomato sauce from my homegrown tomatoes,  then added buffalo mozzarella and some parmesan and 5 minutes on top oven - was a little too thick but still delicious!

The second tray I topped from beginning buffalo mozzarella, anchovy and fiori di zucca from my garden also and cooked this on the bottom of oven for 10 minutes then 5 minutes on top also. This one was a little too thin but still delicious!

Need to work on keeping the dough homogenous throughout, but otherwise pretty happy with this!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 25, 2020, 08:02:02 AM
Return to Home Teglia Romana. Turn on again my p134h

10% Semolina
90% Denti Zero+ w340
80% Hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h (43CF+5RT)

This simple dough always works well

More photoshop and infos: http://www.0059.it/2020/08/25/ritorno-alle-origini/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Instragram:  sc0059
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on August 25, 2020, 11:38:27 AM
Stefano, gorgeous pizzas as always! I noticed that most Italian pizzaiolos making this type of dough tend to add the salt to the spiral mixer either

1)right after the pumpkin is formed but before adding the rest of the water or
2)after all the water has been added, in the last 1-2 minutes of mixing.

Which method do you prefer, and why? Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on August 26, 2020, 04:17:57 AM
Stefano, gorgeous pizzas as always! I noticed that most Italian pizzaiolos making this type of dough tend to add the salt to the spiral mixer either

1)right after the pumpkin is formed but before adding the rest of the water or
2)after all the water has been added, in the last 1-2 minutes of mixing.

Which method do you prefer, and why? Thanks!!!

Thanks Doouball, i prefer add salt when the  Pumpkin is ready. After adding salt i finish with the last water. Is not important when add salt, the real point is make a good  glutinic mesh, and for this the time of mixing and  the when adding ingredients are the key
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on August 27, 2020, 03:23:27 PM
Thanks Stefano!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on October 01, 2020, 11:52:27 AM
Hi there,

i wanted to try baguette with sourdough biga the other day, inspired by this recipe: https://brotokoll.com/recipe-archiv/il-baguettino-italian-baguette-with-pasta-madre-biga/?lang=en
Since i forgot to subtract the water in the biga for the final dough, i ended up with a hydration over 80%. The dough was very wet and so i decided to use it for pizza in teglia instead.
I guess it was the lack of semola, that it wasn`t as crispy as usual on the bottom, but otherwise i was quite happy with the result. The biga (33%), only with sourdough (refreshed), worked pretty well.
I`ll definetely give it another shot, also for baguette with the right amount of water ;D
Here some pictures....

Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on October 01, 2020, 01:35:03 PM
One of the big mistake is thinking that semola give crispiness to dough. The truth is that semola give softiness and tenacity to dough. Focaccia Barese is 100% Semola but is not crispy or Crunchy. Semola have short gluteen and over baking brake gluteen matrix giving crispy effect (like Altamura bread). The effect of tenacity give a better structure within the Teglia. In my own opinion sourdough is not the best levain for Teglia Romana.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pete_da_Bayer on October 01, 2020, 01:57:16 PM
One of the big mistake is thinking that semola give crispiness to dough. The truth is that semola give softiness and tenacity to dough. Focaccia Barese is 100% Semola but is not crispy or Crunchy. Semola have short gluteen and over baking brake gluteen matrix giving crispy effect (like Altamura bread). The effect of tenacity give a better structure within the Teglia. In my own opinion sourdough is not the best levain for Teglia Romana.
Thanks for the explanation, Stefano! That`s really interesting, what you wrote about semola. I didnt know that. Well, then it might have been the lack of heat from beneath, that it didnt get crunchy. Youre certainly right with sourdough in combination with teglia. I was just happy, that it worked at all.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: MadHen on February 08, 2021, 04:54:01 PM
I see that you have not posted recently. I would love to continue admiring and learning from your work.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 09, 2021, 03:42:45 PM
I see that you have not posted recently. I would love to continue admiring and learning from your work.
You are right MadHen... In this moment I have a lots of work committente to lead.
I make teglia Romana every day for my pizzeria but i can't post on pizza making. You can follow me on Facebook or instagram for my last Pizze, but don't bother asking me anything here on pizzamaking and I'll try to answer you
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: scott r on February 09, 2021, 04:10:30 PM
Congrats antilife, on being busy enough to keep off the forum.  Im sure you miss it but its a very good thing!

I can see for myself why natural leavening works, but might not be the ideal thing for this style of pizza, but I am wondering if you could give an opinion on why a biga or poolish made with commercial yeast might not be a good idea for this style of pizza. 

Take your time, and I will understand if you never have time to answer!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 09, 2021, 04:15:47 PM
Biga is a the preferment to use with this Pizza Style. I prefer 48h direct dough but i can say you that one of the best dough that i Love is 100% Biga, 75% hydros. One of the most difficult dough to mixer
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on February 24, 2021, 09:32:01 PM
Biga is a the preferment to use with this Pizza Style. I prefer 48h direct dough but i can say you that one of the best dough that i Love is 100% Biga, 75% hydros. One of the most difficult dough to mixer

What are your thoughts on using a biga made from sour dough for this style of pizza?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 25, 2021, 01:39:49 AM
Teglia Romana and Sourdough are two different  worlds . A sourdough biga is useless  technix. If you want obtain a good result with Teglia Romana use fresh yeast or Spontaneous fermentations
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: RamirOk on February 25, 2021, 11:46:28 AM
You are right MadHen... In this moment I have a lots of work committente to lead.
I make teglia Romana every day for my pizzeria but i can't post on pizza making. You can follow me on Facebook or instagram for my last Pizze, but don't bother asking me anything here on pizzamaking and I'll try to answer you

I went back some pages and found your social media links but it will be great for others if you can add a website url in your profile so is easier to discover. Thank you for all the valuable information you share.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on February 25, 2021, 12:22:54 PM
Thanks for wonderful words. You can find my webpage on www.0059.it
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: koper545 on March 14, 2021, 05:39:17 PM
Hey,
couldn't find any information regarding it in the thread.

Can you make great al taglio in conveyor oven? If so, how would you adjust the dough recipe so it doesn't dry out too much?
what else should i look out for ?
Title: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: jsaras on March 14, 2021, 07:08:59 PM
Hey,
couldn't find any information regarding it in the thread.

Can you make great al taglio in conveyor oven? If so, how would you adjust the dough recipe so it doesn't dry out too much?
what else should i look out for ?
Massimilliano Saieva made this in a conveyor oven, so its definitely possible
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 25, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
Antilife,

The traditional Pizza bianca with mortadella sandwich, is the bread only baked once then split and filled, or is there generally a second bake?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on May 27, 2021, 02:50:45 AM
Remember that Teglia Romana must always be heated before being served.  So you have to bake it completely like the other Kind of Teglia, but the final heating is the real important point
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on May 28, 2021, 02:09:23 PM
Thank you so much for the insight...so either split/fill and do a final bake, or do a second bake (maybe 2 minutes) then split and fill if I don't want the fillings heated?

Thank you for your expertise!

Remember that Teglia Romana must always be heated before being served.  So you have to bake it completely like the other Kind of Teglia, but the final heating is the real important point
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: PizzaCalcio on June 01, 2021, 02:35:38 PM
Hello All - big fan of this thread!

I have been trying to work on my Pizza Bianca and Pizza Rossa lately. During my bakes with just salt and EVOO, I often times get balloons where my dough will almost pita from the water vapor. If I par bake with a small amount of sauce, this will not happen as much. I have attached some pictures below. One is where the balloon happens in the middle, the other is the end of the dough, which I love

75% mix of King Arthur APF (11.7% Protein) and King Arthur Bread Flour (12.7% Protein)
25% Molini Del Ponte Semola Rimacinata
75% HL
0.20% IDY
2.00% Salt

Autolyse for 30min, handmix for 15min, 3 stretch and folds every 15 minutes, let sit out for an hour - then into the fridge for 48hr - take out of fridge for 4 hours - Ball for 2 hours - shape and bake on the top rack of my electric oven for 10 min.

Some questions

1.) Should I add EVOO to my dough? I am a breadmaker and usually like to stick to just Flour, Water, Salt and Yeast - but maybe I need to add some EVOO to my recipe?
2.) Should I move to bottom rack? I did some testing and this ballooning did not happen as much on the bottom rack, so heat distribution could be causing some issues.
3.) Should I dock my dough down before baking? I want an airy open crumb structure which is why I have never done this.
4.) Should I use stronger wheat flour then what I am using?
5.) Should I shape right when I take out of fridge, and then let sit, which is what a lot of people prefer to do here it seems
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on June 01, 2021, 04:55:33 PM
A lot of people would be very happy with that result (the alveoli).

I have only baked this style infrequently, so I don't know all that much about the process..!

When I see "pita" happening I poke a hole in the bubble, that seems to stop it from getting too big.  Maybe the dough is nearly over ripe and a bit less fermentation would help.

Is it possible that you "packed" the dough in at different densities?  I've found this processes most vexing :)

I was taught to form the final panetto relatively quickly after getting it out of the fridge.  Then leave it for 4 hours to relax, stretch, into the pan (or onto the peel), and into the oven.

While stretching, it's good to dimple it with the finger tips, that helps the dough to hang together a bit better, but it's a compromise of losing gas and having it hold together.

Regarding heat, I was taught that the most important heat is from below, of course it has to be balanced so that the top and the bottom come out as desired.

A tip, don't count the folds, just do them until the dough takes shape and gets a skin.  If I make a no-knead dough, a dough in my kitchen aid, or in my spiral mixer, they all turn out very different and need different handling and a different amount of folding.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 01, 2021, 07:17:20 PM
Hello All - big fan of this thread!

I have been trying to work on my Pizza Bianca and Pizza Rossa lately. During my bakes with just salt and EVOO, I often times get balloons where my dough will almost pita from the water vapor. If I par bake with a small amount of sauce, this will not happen as much. I have attached some pictures below. One is where the balloon happens in the middle, the other is the end of the dough, which I love

75% mix of King Arthur APF (11.7% Protein) and King Arthur Bread Flour (12.7% Protein)
25% Molini Del Ponte Semola Rimacinata
75% HL
0.20% IDY
2.00% Salt

Autolyse for 30min, handmix for 15min, 3 stretch and folds every 15 minutes, let sit out for an hour - then into the fridge for 48hr - take out of fridge for 4 hours - Ball for 2 hours - shape and bake on the top rack of my electric oven for 10 min.

Some questions

1.) Should I add EVOO to my dough? I am a breadmaker and usually like to stick to just Flour, Water, Salt and Yeast - but maybe I need to add some EVOO to my recipe?
2.) Should I move to bottom rack? I did some testing and this ballooning did not happen as much on the bottom rack, so heat distribution could be causing some issues.
3.) Should I dock my dough down before baking? I want an airy open crumb structure which is why I have never done this.
4.) Should I use stronger wheat flour then what I am using?
5.) Should I shape right when I take out of fridge, and then let sit, which is what a lot of people prefer to do here it seems
Try my original recipe with 2% Evo.
Analizying structure in your Photos i understand that you need more power in bottom side of the oven.  The real function of Evo is give more facility to re-heat the pizza.
The balloons in the middle of pan is a stretching problem.
When you will bake Pizza bianca without balloons mean your stretching technic is right
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: PizzaCalcio on June 01, 2021, 07:42:47 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on June 03, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
I actually had this problem with a pizza bianca alla pala I just made - baked at 525f.

I dimpled around the edges then once from top to bottom down the middle, yet I still got some runaway bubbles (the center almost puffing up and "ballooning".)

How does one stretch/dimple this dough correctly so the dough rises evenly without large bubbles?

Try my original recipe with 2% Evo.
Analizying structure in your Photos i understand that you need more power in bottom side of the oven.  The real function of Evo is give more facility to re-heat the pizza.
The balloons in the middle of pan is a stretching problem.
When you will bake Pizza bianca without balloons mean your stretching technic is right
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on June 03, 2021, 01:46:09 PM
How does one stretch/dimple this dough correctly so the dough rises evenly without large bubbles?

Hah, with a lot of practice!  Or if you find out the secrets please let me know.

It might also be that the state of the dough has an influence (fermentation, gluten strength, etc)!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Ing on June 06, 2021, 04:05:18 AM
Test personalized strong flour ( in italy dust 0 W340 P/L 60)
70% New Flour
20% Mix infibra Tipo1 w340,
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(45CF+3RT)

First test with EVO and Cipro Salt
Second Test with Mozzarella and Sage (to simulate ingredients)

Good Taste, but i need to change some stats. In mix i see some problems.

More infos and photos to:
http://www.0059.it/2017/08/03/il-massimo-dal-km-zero/


Hi Stefano! What temperature do you parbake in and how long? And then what temperature do you do your final bake in and how long?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on June 07, 2021, 02:37:15 PM
Well, still getting awful results with my pala style. I'm baking on the center rack, on a steel preheated to 525. No matter how I dimple the dough.... light and soft, or aggressively and multiple times, the pala/bianca bakes up and starts to balloon like a pita, and there's definitely a top layer of the dough that seems to separate from the rest of the bread that you can almost "peel off."

I used 300g for a roughly 8 x 12 rectangle. 48+h bulk, about 3 hours room temp formed as balls.

Any help or tips? This is driving me mad.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Jackitup on June 07, 2021, 03:03:01 PM
Maybe some light pricking with a fork too.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on June 07, 2021, 06:48:49 PM
I'm trying to stretch and bake the dough as they do in Rome - no pricking with a fork for these.

Maybe some light pricking with a fork too.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: amolapizza on June 08, 2021, 01:55:24 PM
Well, still getting awful results with my pala style. I'm baking on the center rack, on a steel preheated to 525. No matter how I dimple the dough.... light and soft, or aggressively and multiple times, the pala/bianca bakes up and starts to balloon like a pita, and there's definitely a top layer of the dough that seems to separate from the rest of the bread that you can almost "peel off."

I used 300g for a roughly 8 x 12 rectangle. 48+h bulk, about 3 hours room temp formed as balls.

Any help or tips? This is driving me mad.

I'm kind of loath to give advice as I'm not very good at this style..

However a couple of thoughts.

I was wondering if you don't get too much heat from above.  I was taught that this kind of pizza requires heat from below and not so much from above.  If the top bakes/sets too fast there would be nowhere for the water vapor to go, and I suspect the ballooning is the result.

I also think pala is a bit harder than in teglia, maybe start with in teglia until you have mastered that.  Same dough, same procedure, just a bit less stress and more control.

I also seem to understand that it's very important to distribute the dough correctly, both when you open the panetto as well as after moving it into the pan or onto the peel.  It needs to be nice and even, no places that are much thicker than others.  This part is really important, especially once it's on the peel or in the pan.

Regarding dough it needs to have a lot of what the Italians call corda (rope, but I think better thought of as gluten development in English).  If you use a double hydration technique with a spiral mixer it's quite easy to produce a dough that needs little folding and that holds up well.  If you have a lesser mixer or do a no knead dough it will need a lot of folding.  It's kind of hard to give it enough strength but it can be done.  The final dough should be dry and solid to the touch.

A typical workflow would be using a strong 00/0 flour (W 300-380), about 80% hydration, 2.5% salt and 2% EVO, yeast as much as is required.

Dough weight in grams can be found by dividing the area of the pizza (in cm2) by 2, +-20%.  So a 30x40cm pizza would need 30x40/2=600g, so 600g would be ideal but 480g to 720g would be acceptable.

Make a strong dough, bulk refrigerate it for 24 to 72 hours, take it out of the fridge and form the panetti, leave them at RT for 3-4 hours, then open them up and bake.

Temperature around 300-320C on the floor and maybe 200C from above.  At this point if you do see ballooning, don't hesitate to poke a hole in it, it will let the vapor escape and the pizza will be the better for it!

It also seems to help to smear some oil or oil/water emulsion on top of the white pizza before baking it.

I hope this is helpful, like I said I'm not very good at it, but I have taken some courses and some of the information comes from what is called the APITER., a codification that the Confraternita della Pizza made of this pizza style a few years ago.

https://laconfraternitadellapizza.forumfree.it/?act=Attach&type=post&id=593039003

Edit: Corrected the link.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on June 11, 2021, 11:43:07 AM
Well, more trouble with pala/Teglia. No pictures of the Teglia, because they surprisingly ballooned up more... but both baked pretty similarly for the most part on the bottom (which I was not expecting with the pan.)

270g for roughly 33 x 16cm. This pala was dimpled pretty aggressively, lightly brushed with oil, then punctured in 8 places with the corner of a bench scraper - three on each side, then two in the center. Yet, still, some runaway pita-like bubbles. I dont even think this is thick enough to split for sandwiches. Baked at 550 for 10-ish minutes

Edit:
Would going thicker on pizza-bianca style doughs (used to split and fill like a sandwich) help address pita-like bubbling? (this still seems hardly thick enough to split, despite using the traditional thickness calculation.)

Would lowering the temp address this?
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on June 11, 2021, 11:56:24 PM
Well, more trouble with pala/Teglia. No pictures of the Teglia, because they surprisingly ballooned up more... but both baked pretty similarly for the most part on the bottom (which I was not expecting with the pan.)

270g for roughly 33 x 16cm. This pala was dimpled pretty aggressively, lightly brushed with oil, then punctured in 8 places with the corner of a bench scraper - three on each side, then two in the center. Yet, still, some runaway pita-like bubbles. I dont even think this is thick enough to split for sandwiches. Baked at 550 for 10-ish minutes

Edit:
Would going thicker on pizza-bianca style doughs (used to split and fill like a sandwich) help address pita-like bubbling? (this still seems hardly thick enough to split, despite using the traditional thickness calculation.)

Would lowering the temp address this?

I've also had this issue a few times when making Pinsa Romana/Pizza in Pala. One of the most common causes is if you bake the pizza completely blind, forgetting to drizzle a good amount of olive oil on the top before the bake. With nothing to hold down the top layer of dough, you can often get massive bubbles. A second reason is the distribution of air during the dimpling - but I can't advise much as I haven't mastered this yet - that's the hardest part IMHO. My understanding is that you dimple the sides first and then go through the center and repeat 1-2 times. I've never had to puncture the dough with a bench scraper. 
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on June 12, 2021, 12:59:00 PM
This was more of a wipe of oil across the top, evenly, and not a healthy drizzle.

Will try mostly tomato-topped pies next see if my structure looks okay or not.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: pizapizza on June 12, 2021, 08:52:15 PM
I was having a similar problem with the dough ballooning when I parbaked it. Ive been using less tension when I ball the dough and Ive been storing the balls in a dough container instead of a small container and I havent had issues since. When I make sandwiches I usually just do it how people make pizza farcita and stretch out two doughs thin and cook them on top of each other
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 25, 2021, 04:50:18 PM
First test of P134HA  EVOLUTION!!!

100% Denti Zero+ w340
80% Hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h (43CF+5RT)

Usual dough without Semolina.  Baked with new (and Fantastic) Effeuno EVOLUTION

More photo and infos: https://www.0059.it/blog/2021/06/25/piccoli-forni-crescono/
official NEW site: www.0059.it

Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Instagram:  sc0059
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on June 25, 2021, 10:04:05 PM
Great results Stefano!

What are your thoughts about P134H 509C vs P134HA 509C for making only pizza (Napoletana, Canotto, Pinsa, Teglia) and not bread? Would the P134H be better or they are equivalent? Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on June 26, 2021, 02:07:04 AM
Great results Stefano!

What are your thoughts about P134H 509C vs P134HA 509C for making only pizza (Napoletana, Canotto, Pinsa, Teglia) and not bread? Would the P134H be better or they are equivalent? Thanks!
Thanks Doouball. These two models works similar but model H is best builded for pizza while HA is a complete oven for bread and Pizza making.Just a matter of necessity
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on June 26, 2021, 11:40:58 AM
Thanks Doouball. These two models works similar with but model H is best buildef for pizza while HA is a complete oven for bread and Pizza making.Just a matter of necessity

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Heikjo on June 28, 2021, 04:18:33 AM
Great results Stefano!

What are your thoughts about P134H 509C vs P134HA 509C for making only pizza (Napoletana, Canotto, Pinsa, Teglia) and not bread? Would the P134H be better or they are equivalent? Thanks!
There are new models now, but AFAIK, the only difference is that the HA is taller. The most important pizza related implication is that it may not be able to bake a neapolitan as fast as the H due to the upper element being higher above the stone. That might be remedied by lifting the stone, but that also increase the distance from the bottom element to the stone. Most P134H users in here turn down the bottom element after it has warmed up, to a point where the bottom element is pretty much turned off, so that may not make much of a difference to the heat in the stone. After the oven is hot, the upper element is what's heating the stone. Other pizza styles are of course also baked both top and bottom, but with longer time in the oven it is easier to find a method that works and rely more on ambient heat than direct heat from the upper element. That said, with the raised upper element in the HA and no rails to easily adjust the height of the stone and pizza, it may take more experimentation to find the correct balance. Unless one use some kind of metal insert to lift it closer to the upper element if needed.

Bottom line is that if someone is considering one of these for pizza, it's a no brainer to choose the P134H. Someone wanting one for multiple applications, including bread baking, the HA might be a better choice. With some metal arrangement to raise the stone, I think it can make a neapolitan pretty similar to the P134H.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: DoouBall on June 28, 2021, 03:37:24 PM
There are new models now, but AFAIK, the only difference is that the HA is taller. The most important pizza related implication is that it may not be able to bake a neapolitan as fast as the H due to the upper element being higher above the stone. That might be remedied by lifting the stone, but that also increase the distance from the bottom element to the stone. Most P134H users in here turn down the bottom element after it has warmed up, to a point where the bottom element is pretty much turned off, so that may not make much of a difference to the heat in the stone. After the oven is hot, the upper element is what's heating the stone. Other pizza styles are of course also baked both top and bottom, but with longer time in the oven it is easier to find a method that works and rely more on ambient heat than direct heat from the upper element. That said, with the raised upper element in the HA and no rails to easily adjust the height of the stone and pizza, it may take more experimentation to find the correct balance. Unless one use some kind of metal insert to lift it closer to the upper element if needed.

Bottom line is that if someone is considering one of these for pizza, it's a no brainer to choose the P134H. Someone wanting one for multiple applications, including bread baking, the HA might be a better choice. With some metal arrangement to raise the stone, I think it can make a neapolitan pretty similar to the P134H.

Thanks that was a very well thought out explanation. I appreciate it Heikjo!
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Pizzaman106 on July 05, 2021, 04:47:21 PM
I recently tried making a Taglio pizza. I am pretty happy with the results, but I wish to have a more open and hokey crumb structure next time. Any advice? This pizza was 80% hydration, .06% dry yeast, 100% King Arthur bread flour, 2.5% salt, and 1% sugar. I let this bulk for 24 hours and coil folded every hour for the first 8 hours. Baked at 480 F for 15 minutes.
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: hotsawce on July 12, 2021, 08:24:35 PM
Perfect...as always  ;D

You make this style look so much easier than it is...

First test of P134HA  EVOLUTION!!!

100% Denti Zero+ w340
80% Hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2,5% Salt
2% Evo
48h (43CF+5RT)

Usual dough without Semolina.  Baked with new (and Fantastic) Effeuno EVOLUTION

More photo and infos: https://www.0059.it/blog/2021/06/25/piccoli-forni-crescono/
official NEW site: www.0059.it

Facebook: www.facebook.com/0059StefanoCiccarelli
Instagram:  sc0059
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 13, 2021, 07:09:08 AM
I recently tried making a Taglio pizza. I am pretty happy with the results, but I wish to have a more open and hokey crumb structure next time. Any advice? This pizza was 80% hydration, .06% dry yeast, 100% King Arthur bread flour, 2.5% salt, and 1% sugar. I let this bulk for 24 hours and coil folded every hour for the first 8 hours. Baked at 480 F for 15 minutes.
Pizzaman remove sugar and add 10% Semola in mix. Semola is really important to give more strenght and structure to dough
Title: Re: Pizza alla Romana
Post by: Antilife on July 13, 2021, 07:17:35 AM
Thanks Hotsawce
Perfect...as always  ;D

You make this style look so much easier than it is...