A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Pizza alla Romana  (Read 52886 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Antilife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 756
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Modena
  • Pizza ..... or Bakery?
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #400 on: February 25, 2021, 01:39:49 AM »
Teglia Romana and Sourdough are two different  worlds . A sourdough biga is useless  technix. If you want obtain a good result with Teglia Romana use fresh yeast or Spontaneous fermentations

Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #401 on: February 25, 2021, 11:46:28 AM »
You are right MadHen... In this moment I have a lots of work committente to lead.
I make teglia Romana every day for my pizzeria but i can't post on pizza making. You can follow me on Facebook or instagram for my last Pizze, but don't bother asking me anything here on pizzamaking and I'll try to answer you

I went back some pages and found your social media links but it will be great for others if you can add a website url in your profile so is easier to discover. Thank you for all the valuable information you share.

Offline Antilife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 756
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Modena
  • Pizza ..... or Bakery?
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #402 on: February 25, 2021, 12:22:54 PM »
Thanks for wonderful words. You can find my webpage on www.0059.it

Offline koper545

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Poland
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #403 on: March 14, 2021, 05:39:17 PM »
Hey,
couldn't find any information regarding it in the thread.

Can you make great al taglio in conveyor oven? If so, how would you adjust the dough recipe so it doesn't dry out too much?
what else should i look out for ?

Offline jsaras

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4022
  • Location: Camarillo, CA
Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #404 on: March 14, 2021, 07:08:59 PM »
Hey,
couldn't find any information regarding it in the thread.

Can you make great al taglio in conveyor oven? If so, how would you adjust the dough recipe so it doesn't dry out too much?
what else should i look out for ?
Massimilliano Saieva made this in a conveyor oven, so itís definitely possible
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #405 on: May 25, 2021, 04:03:44 PM »
Antilife,

The traditional Pizza bianca with mortadella sandwich, is the bread only baked once then split and filled, or is there generally a second bake?

Offline Antilife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 756
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Modena
  • Pizza ..... or Bakery?
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #406 on: May 27, 2021, 02:50:45 AM »
Remember that Teglia Romana must always be heated before being served.  So you have to bake it completely like the other Kind of Teglia, but the final heating is the real important point

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #407 on: May 28, 2021, 02:09:23 PM »
Thank you so much for the insight...so either split/fill and do a final bake, or do a second bake (maybe 2 minutes) then split and fill if I don't want the fillings heated?

Thank you for your expertise!

Remember that Teglia Romana must always be heated before being served.  So you have to bake it completely like the other Kind of Teglia, but the final heating is the real important point

Offline PizzaCalcio

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #408 on: June 01, 2021, 02:35:38 PM »
Hello All - big fan of this thread!

I have been trying to work on my Pizza Bianca and Pizza Rossa lately. During my bakes with just salt and EVOO, I often times get balloons where my dough will almost pita from the water vapor. If I par bake with a small amount of sauce, this will not happen as much. I have attached some pictures below. One is where the balloon happens in the middle, the other is the end of the dough, which I love

75% mix of King Arthur APF (11.7% Protein) and King Arthur Bread Flour (12.7% Protein)
25% Molini Del Ponte Semola Rimacinata
75% HL
0.20% IDY
2.00% Salt

Autolyse for 30min, handmix for 15min, 3 stretch and folds every 15 minutes, let sit out for an hour - then into the fridge for 48hr - take out of fridge for 4 hours - Ball for 2 hours - shape and bake on the top rack of my electric oven for 10 min.

Some questions

1.) Should I add EVOO to my dough? I am a breadmaker and usually like to stick to just Flour, Water, Salt and Yeast - but maybe I need to add some EVOO to my recipe?
2.) Should I move to bottom rack? I did some testing and this ballooning did not happen as much on the bottom rack, so heat distribution could be causing some issues.
3.) Should I dock my dough down before baking? I want an airy open crumb structure which is why I have never done this.
4.) Should I use stronger wheat flour then what I am using?
5.) Should I shape right when I take out of fridge, and then let sit, which is what a lot of people prefer to do here it seems

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2161
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #409 on: June 01, 2021, 04:55:33 PM »
A lot of people would be very happy with that result (the alveoli).

I have only baked this style infrequently, so I don't know all that much about the process..!

When I see "pita" happening I poke a hole in the bubble, that seems to stop it from getting too big.  Maybe the dough is nearly over ripe and a bit less fermentation would help.

Is it possible that you "packed" the dough in at different densities?  I've found this processes most vexing :)

I was taught to form the final panetto relatively quickly after getting it out of the fridge.  Then leave it for 4 hours to relax, stretch, into the pan (or onto the peel), and into the oven.

While stretching, it's good to dimple it with the finger tips, that helps the dough to hang together a bit better, but it's a compromise of losing gas and having it hold together.

Regarding heat, I was taught that the most important heat is from below, of course it has to be balanced so that the top and the bottom come out as desired.

A tip, don't count the folds, just do them until the dough takes shape and gets a skin.  If I make a no-knead dough, a dough in my kitchen aid, or in my spiral mixer, they all turn out very different and need different handling and a different amount of folding.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Antilife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 756
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Modena
  • Pizza ..... or Bakery?
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #410 on: June 01, 2021, 07:17:20 PM »
Hello All - big fan of this thread!

I have been trying to work on my Pizza Bianca and Pizza Rossa lately. During my bakes with just salt and EVOO, I often times get balloons where my dough will almost pita from the water vapor. If I par bake with a small amount of sauce, this will not happen as much. I have attached some pictures below. One is where the balloon happens in the middle, the other is the end of the dough, which I love

75% mix of King Arthur APF (11.7% Protein) and King Arthur Bread Flour (12.7% Protein)
25% Molini Del Ponte Semola Rimacinata
75% HL
0.20% IDY
2.00% Salt

Autolyse for 30min, handmix for 15min, 3 stretch and folds every 15 minutes, let sit out for an hour - then into the fridge for 48hr - take out of fridge for 4 hours - Ball for 2 hours - shape and bake on the top rack of my electric oven for 10 min.

Some questions

1.) Should I add EVOO to my dough? I am a breadmaker and usually like to stick to just Flour, Water, Salt and Yeast - but maybe I need to add some EVOO to my recipe?
2.) Should I move to bottom rack? I did some testing and this ballooning did not happen as much on the bottom rack, so heat distribution could be causing some issues.
3.) Should I dock my dough down before baking? I want an airy open crumb structure which is why I have never done this.
4.) Should I use stronger wheat flour then what I am using?
5.) Should I shape right when I take out of fridge, and then let sit, which is what a lot of people prefer to do here it seems
Try my original recipe with 2% Evo.
Analizying structure in your Photos i understand that you need more power in bottom side of the oven.  The real function of Evo is give more facility to re-heat the pizza.
The balloons in the middle of pan is a stretching problem.
When you will bake Pizza bianca without balloons mean your stretching technic is right

Offline PizzaCalcio

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #411 on: June 01, 2021, 07:42:47 PM »
Thanks!

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #412 on: June 03, 2021, 01:29:32 PM »
I actually had this problem with a pizza bianca alla pala I just made - baked at 525f.

I dimpled around the edges then once from top to bottom down the middle, yet I still got some runaway bubbles (the center almost puffing up and "ballooning".)

How does one stretch/dimple this dough correctly so the dough rises evenly without large bubbles?

Try my original recipe with 2% Evo.
Analizying structure in your Photos i understand that you need more power in bottom side of the oven.  The real function of Evo is give more facility to re-heat the pizza.
The balloons in the middle of pan is a stretching problem.
When you will bake Pizza bianca without balloons mean your stretching technic is right

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2161
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #413 on: June 03, 2021, 01:46:09 PM »
How does one stretch/dimple this dough correctly so the dough rises evenly without large bubbles?

Hah, with a lot of practice!  Or if you find out the secrets please let me know.

It might also be that the state of the dough has an influence (fermentation, gluten strength, etc)!
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Ing

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10
  • Location: Philippines
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #414 on: June 06, 2021, 04:05:18 AM »
Test personalized strong flour ( in italy dust 0 W340 P/L 60)
70% New Flour
20% Mix infibra Tipo1 w340,
80% hydros
0,7% fresh yeast
2% Evo
2,5% Salt
48h(45CF+3RT)

First test with EVO and Cipro Salt
Second Test with Mozzarella and Sage (to simulate ingredients)

Good Taste, but i need to change some stats. In mix i see some problems.

More infos and photos to:
http://www.0059.it/2017/08/03/il-massimo-dal-km-zero/


Hi Stefano! What temperature do you parbake in and how long? And then what temperature do you do your final bake in and how long?

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #415 on: June 07, 2021, 02:37:15 PM »
Well, still getting awful results with my pala style. I'm baking on the center rack, on a steel preheated to 525. No matter how I dimple the dough.... light and soft, or aggressively and multiple times, the pala/bianca bakes up and starts to balloon like a pita, and there's definitely a top layer of the dough that seems to separate from the rest of the bread that you can almost "peel off."

I used 300g for a roughly 8 x 12 rectangle. 48+h bulk, about 3 hours room temp formed as balls.

Any help or tips? This is driving me mad.

Offline Jackitup

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14779
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Hastings, MN
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #416 on: June 07, 2021, 03:03:01 PM »
Maybe some light pricking with a fork too.
Jon

ďThe two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.Ē            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #417 on: June 07, 2021, 06:48:49 PM »
I'm trying to stretch and bake the dough as they do in Rome - no pricking with a fork for these.

Maybe some light pricking with a fork too.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2161
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #418 on: June 08, 2021, 01:55:24 PM »
Well, still getting awful results with my pala style. I'm baking on the center rack, on a steel preheated to 525. No matter how I dimple the dough.... light and soft, or aggressively and multiple times, the pala/bianca bakes up and starts to balloon like a pita, and there's definitely a top layer of the dough that seems to separate from the rest of the bread that you can almost "peel off."

I used 300g for a roughly 8 x 12 rectangle. 48+h bulk, about 3 hours room temp formed as balls.

Any help or tips? This is driving me mad.

I'm kind of loath to give advice as I'm not very good at this style..

However a couple of thoughts.

I was wondering if you don't get too much heat from above.  I was taught that this kind of pizza requires heat from below and not so much from above.  If the top bakes/sets too fast there would be nowhere for the water vapor to go, and I suspect the ballooning is the result.

I also think pala is a bit harder than in teglia, maybe start with in teglia until you have mastered that.  Same dough, same procedure, just a bit less stress and more control.

I also seem to understand that it's very important to distribute the dough correctly, both when you open the panetto as well as after moving it into the pan or onto the peel.  It needs to be nice and even, no places that are much thicker than others.  This part is really important, especially once it's on the peel or in the pan.

Regarding dough it needs to have a lot of what the Italians call corda (rope, but I think better thought of as gluten development in English).  If you use a double hydration technique with a spiral mixer it's quite easy to produce a dough that needs little folding and that holds up well.  If you have a lesser mixer or do a no knead dough it will need a lot of folding.  It's kind of hard to give it enough strength but it can be done.  The final dough should be dry and solid to the touch.

A typical workflow would be using a strong 00/0 flour (W 300-380), about 80% hydration, 2.5% salt and 2% EVO, yeast as much as is required.

Dough weight in grams can be found by dividing the area of the pizza (in cm2) by 2, +-20%.  So a 30x40cm pizza would need 30x40/2=600g, so 600g would be ideal but 480g to 720g would be acceptable.

Make a strong dough, bulk refrigerate it for 24 to 72 hours, take it out of the fridge and form the panetti, leave them at RT for 3-4 hours, then open them up and bake.

Temperature around 300-320C on the floor and maybe 200C from above.  At this point if you do see ballooning, don't hesitate to poke a hole in it, it will let the vapor escape and the pizza will be the better for it!

It also seems to help to smear some oil or oil/water emulsion on top of the white pizza before baking it.

I hope this is helpful, like I said I'm not very good at it, but I have taken some courses and some of the information comes from what is called the APITER., a codification that the Confraternita della Pizza made of this pizza style a few years ago.

https://laconfraternitadellapizza.forumfree.it/?act=Attach&type=post&id=593039003

Edit: Corrected the link.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 02:06:09 PM by amolapizza »
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Pizza alla Romana
« Reply #419 on: June 11, 2021, 11:43:07 AM »
Well, more trouble with pala/Teglia. No pictures of the Teglia, because they surprisingly ballooned up more... but both baked pretty similarly for the most part on the bottom (which I was not expecting with the pan.)

270g for roughly 33 x 16cm. This pala was dimpled pretty aggressively, lightly brushed with oil, then punctured in 8 places with the corner of a bench scraper - three on each side, then two in the center. Yet, still, some runaway pita-like bubbles. I donít even think this is thick enough to split for sandwiches. Baked at 550 for 10-ish minutes

Edit:
Would going thicker on pizza-bianca style doughs (used to split and fill like a sandwich) help address pita-like bubbling? (this still seems hardly thick enough to split, despite using the traditional thickness calculation.)

Would lowering the temp address this?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 12:35:21 PM by hotsawce »

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress