Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => New York Style => Topic started by: hotsawce on February 10, 2017, 11:10:10 PM

Title: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on February 10, 2017, 11:10:10 PM
I'm still trying to replicate Lucali/Giuseppina's pizza but haven't come close yet.

I know it's just flour (confirmed bromated, red bag all trumps,) water, salt and yeast. No oil or sugar. I can't determine the hydration or TF...I suspect the TF is evenly distributed along the entire pizza given the look of the cornicione (I haven't seen another cornicione similar.) I "think" it may be around 0.063. Doughs are also rolled out with wine bottles and left to sit until ready to use.

The sauce is just tomatoes with a little garlic cooked in olive oil, basil, salt, and pepper (according to a foot network segment.

My problem is getting those interesting, wide and flat bubbles/pockets in the cornicione. I haven't been able to get it on my baking steel.

Anyone have any ideas?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: rparker on February 16, 2017, 06:59:58 AM
Here's a video I stumbled upon a couple of months ago when researching something else. The second segment features Lucali.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH7vFc0bUpU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH7vFc0bUpU)
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on February 16, 2017, 03:48:18 PM
Lou, Roy..


What kind of sliced white cheese is that on Lucali's pie? A type of fresh mozz? It looks like it melts beautifully but doesn't oil off.. or am I misunderstanding something.


That place looks so great...even if f there were no pizza (what???!!!) ) the surroundings and vibe seem wonderful!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gianni5 on February 16, 2017, 05:29:57 PM
Here's my second attempt at it
This has high gluten flour, 57% water, 1.5% oil, 2.5% salt, fresh yeast 24 hour cold ferment

I think no oil next time and I think I need to not too so close to the edge. In watching that video there's like a solid 3 inches from the sauce to the edge of the pizza.
Also I need to use a lot less fresh mozz and smaller pieces too. It needed to break down more.
This pizza did eat really well though. Bake time was 4.5 minutes at 650
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gianni5 on February 16, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
I think that cheese in the video might be scamorza.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on February 17, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
the pizza above looks pretty darn close!!!bake time?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 17, 2017, 09:25:05 PM
I'm still trying to replicate Lucali/Giuseppina's pizza but haven't come close yet.

I know it's just flour (confirmed bromated, red bag all trumps,) water, salt and yeast. No oil or sugar. I can't determine the hydration or TF...I suspect the TF is evenly distributed along the entire pizza given the look of the cornicione (I haven't seen another cornicione similar.) I "think" it may be around 0.063. Doughs are also rolled out with wine bottles and left to sit until ready to use.

The sauce is just tomatoes with a little garlic cooked in olive oil, basil, salt, and pepper (according to a foot network segment.

My problem is getting those interesting, wide and flat bubbles/pockets in the cornicione. I haven't been able to get it on my baking steel.

Anyone have any ideas?

it's basically a low hydration cold fermented NY dough baked in a 700+ degree wood fire oven for 2 minutes.  it's a soft crust, moist innards, uniform ashy crust color probably has sugar.   the big oven spring at the rim is high oven temp and the weakened gluten via CF which causes it to puff bigly.

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 17, 2017, 09:32:40 PM
Here's a video I stumbled upon a couple of months ago when researching something else. The second segment features Lucali.


btw that ball that hit the wall in the bocce game was dead.  gotta hit another ball before hits the wall..
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 17, 2017, 11:14:10 PM
My problem is getting those interesting, wide and flat bubbles/pockets in the cornicione. I haven't been able to get it on my baking steel.

Anyone have any ideas?

A lot of that comes from pulling the dough out and smashing down the dough really thin all the way to the edge. Rolling out the dough will get a similar look.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: PizzaJerk on February 18, 2017, 11:30:27 AM
it's basically a low hydration cold fermented NY dough baked in a 700+ degree wood fire oven for 2 minutes.  it's a soft crust, moist innards, uniform ashy crust color probably has sugar.   the big oven spring at the rim is high oven temp and the weakened gluten via CF which causes it to puff bigly.

Most likely no added sugar as he stated at the start of the thread. What I do believe is that it is no more than a 24hr CF leaving enough residual sugars from the malted flour to evenly brown the rim. Rolling the dough pushing the air to the rim with that oven temp really springs it up. Not so sure about a real low hydration, maybe somewhere around 60?

 Craig, you made mention when you were using a BBQ grill about the malts really showing through around 700+. Lucali's bake makes me think of that.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 18, 2017, 11:33:50 PM
Most likely no added sugar as he stated at the start of the thread. What I do believe is that it is no more than a 24hr CF leaving enough residual sugars from the malted flour to evenly brown the rim. Rolling the dough pushing the air to the rim with that oven temp really springs it up. Not so sure about a real low hydration, maybe somewhere around 60?

 Craig, you made mention when you were using a BBQ grill about the malts really showing through around 700+. Lucali's bake makes me think of that.

Disagree, I think there's sugar to get the uniform ashy grey/brown color within 2-3 minutes in the wood oven.  Their calzones exhibit this further.  The malt isn't enough to get this color I've dropped All trumps in a wood oven, and don't get that color in 2 minutes.    Craig is right, it is rolled with a wine bottle. 

It isn't TF 0.06 either.. it's not ultra thin crust, it's a NY dough in a wood oven, which creates a kind of hybrid result.  The massive bloating in the rim is the oven temp + cold ferment/weaker gluten even after smashed down with a wine bottle, probably inexorbitant amount of yeast too.

It's baked fast, to basically make a soft NY pie with moist innard.  It's not crunchy.  It's frankensteined NY/NP.


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on February 19, 2017, 02:17:16 AM
That pie up there looks like it's almost close to Lucali!

It could be 0.063 TF. There is no cornicione...it's pretty even across the entire pie and it is definitely thinner than a typical NY slice not only in the cornicione but in the center of the pizza as well. I don't think it's above a 0.07 TF.

The dough is only flour water salt and yeast. There is no sugar or oil.

Cheese blend is shaved (on the shaving side of a grater) low moisture mozz, buffalo mozz, post oven grana or parmigiano. basil.

I bet a 57% dough, 2% salt, rolled thin and baked at 700 for 3 minutes would nail it...
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on February 19, 2017, 07:26:06 AM
Lou, I haven't had one o their pizzas (sadly) but it looks and sounds along the lines of Delorenzo's..anyone see  the similarity?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 19, 2017, 10:04:09 AM
That pie up there looks like it's almost close to Lucali!

It could be 0.063 TF. There is no cornicione...it's pretty even across the entire pie and it is definitely thinner than a typical NY slice not only in the cornicione but in the center of the pizza as well. I don't think it's above a 0.07 TF.

The dough is only flour water salt and yeast. There is no sugar or oil.

Cheese blend is shaved (on the shaving side of a grater) low moisture mozz, buffalo mozz, post oven grana or parmigiano. basil.

I bet a 57% dough, 2% salt, rolled thin and baked at 700 for 3 minutes would nail it...

I believe it's a higher TF.  You may think it's 0.063 but that's because the dough is heavily compressed in the opening with a roller.  The pizza isn't as light as a 0.063-0.07 TF slice you can feel it when you pick it up, it has weight.  It has the mass density of a higher TF.  Just because something is thin doesn't mean it's a low TF and TF means nothing really without specifying proof/ferment process and opening technique.  One can make a thinner pizza at 0.09 TF than one at 0.07 TF. 

Try  baking a pie with All Trumps in a wood oven, you won't get this ashy grey color in a two minute bake even though it's a malted flour.  It needs some other sweetener, sugar, maybe honey.   Also, there no way All Trumps will balloon the rim like that unless use a long CF and maybe more yeast to degrade the gluten.  If you slice through a bubble, you'll see how flawed the gluten is.

 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 19, 2017, 10:33:13 AM

https://youtu.be/mH7vFc0bUpU?t=10m15s
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on February 20, 2017, 01:11:30 AM
What do you think it is? It's definitely not 0.09....

It's thinner than any New York style I've had.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gianni5 on February 21, 2017, 11:13:19 PM
A little closer I think. My sauce should be a little thinner and I think I need a bit more cheese. This one was cooked for 3 minutes at just under 700 in the pizzamaster
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on February 21, 2017, 11:34:33 PM
That looks great! What's your HR on that one?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gianni5 on February 21, 2017, 11:42:41 PM
57.5% water
1.5% oil

I want to make a batch of dough with no oil I just haven't got around to it
This is my regular NY dough
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on February 21, 2017, 11:44:36 PM
Thanks Gianni
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: PizzaJerk on February 22, 2017, 09:09:03 PM
57.5% water
1.5% oil

I want to make a batch of dough with no oil I just haven't got around to it
This is my regular NY dough

Any added sugar of any kind?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on February 23, 2017, 10:15:14 AM
you dough texture is right on. your bake is a little darker. did you try to mimic their sauce? it has garlic in it and it is not heavy handed with the garlic. it is also added to the dough hot. man that pizza looks delicious.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on February 23, 2017, 10:51:38 AM
Gianni..I love that...Are there two kinds of cheese on there..A bit of WMM  and fresh mozz?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gianni5 on February 23, 2017, 02:48:50 PM
Thank you guys
It's grande whole milk mozz and a little buffala mozz as well
I didn't try to mimic the sauce.  I'm gonna try one more time with a dough without oil and I'll try to mimic the sauce this time
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on February 23, 2017, 05:15:39 PM
one other thing i think they do is add hard cheese post bake
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: justazaguy on February 23, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
yes, they shred low moisture mozz into thin long pieces, add torn chunks of buffalo mozz, and top with reggiano (post-bake).

How did you accomplish a better browning this time around?

Have you considered using low diastatic malt powder?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gianni5 on February 24, 2017, 03:27:49 PM
 No oil or sugar in the dough this time. I also tried to get the sauce a little closer by cooking some garlic in olive oil then adding san marzanos. It was delicious but not sure how close it is to Lucali's.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on February 24, 2017, 04:46:15 PM
 looks pretty close. you are achieving better color then they get. their dough is not same day, or a least at his brothers place. last visit he took lou and i into his prep room showed us dough in different stages of development. the dough he was using that night had those black specs that you get with older dough.   

 what oven do you use hi heat electric? 

 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on February 24, 2017, 05:15:09 PM
looks pretty close. you are achieving better color then they get. their dough is not same day, or a least at his brothers place. last visit he took lou and i into his prep room showed us dough in different stages of development. the dough he was using that night had those black specs that you get with older dough.   

 what oven do you use hi heat electric?

The black specs are from oxidation, right?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Georgev on February 25, 2017, 03:33:00 PM
That last pie looks really close. what yeast did you use? fresh or instant? .35%?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 25, 2017, 10:21:34 PM
The black specs are from oxidation, right?

Black spots are dead yeast.  You can get that with diastatic malt powder which is steroids for yeast to accelerate consumption or very long cold ferments.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on February 27, 2017, 11:07:53 PM
Wow, looks like you're getting very close. That cross section is a lot like what the side of a lucali pie looks like.

What was your thickness factor?

I was at Lucali tonight. It's still top two of the pies I've ever had..it was really excellent.

The lucali pie is 16". Not the rumored 24, or 20, or even 18". This one was definitely closer to 16". Perfect for two people. It was also not as thin as I remember, but the slices were very sturdy! No tip sag for a 3 minute bake, and the mozzarella was cooked PERFECTLY.

The only thing that's missing in that pizza master bake is those unique bubbles in the cornicione.

I would say 1) stick with that 3 minute bake. Your bottom and crust color looked really close to what I had tonight. 2) reduce the TF but roll evenly? Maybe 0.07 rolled evenly with a pin. I think your hydration was pretty close in that last one.

The thing about the lucali pie is...even when the slice is cold (I had leftovers I just ate,) the cornicione is still CRUNCHY. Not even crispy. Not soggy, not spongy...but CRUNCHY on a cold pie. That has to be a lower hydration?

Also, the post oven shredded (not grated) parmigiano is key for flavor

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: rparker on February 28, 2017, 07:54:13 AM
Gianni5, your efforts look very nice. I wish I could try either yours or theirs. Well, both.

Larry, is this what you were leaning towards on another thread at first?

hotsawce, I was quite surprised to hear you say it was crunchy. Even on the bottom crust? Well, you said no tip sag. Probably clear enough. Certainly have my interest piqued.

All trumps, for me, has an uncanny ability to remain crunchy, chewy, flat instead of tip dip and still be easy on the tooth and not tough. I can't get there yet with FS yet. 

This is pathetic. I feel like I'm asking creepily obsessed questions, like "and what was she wearing?". I digress.

What affect does making the skins, rolling them out "and left to sit until ready to use." have on the dough and final product? I can imagine it, of course, having to be in a floured state. Perhaps that is a huge part of the color and appearance? I also imagine that if it is sitting around, gluten getting warmer and such, that it might be lifting big around the cornicione and deflating because it didn't have enough strength to keep it from expanding a lot to begin with, and then not enough to keep it inflated later in the bake. 

Reading all of this again and again, especially the black specs, I keep wondering about an iced water dough. Those black specs are a lot quicker to happen for me when I do an Iced Water method. Some texture seems to be translating internally as well, but cannot describe how.

A different take on the garlic is to add it very late to the sauce. I know not optimal solution commercially. I micro-plane (grate) 1/2 med-sm clove into my sauce 1/2 hour or so pre-bake. I get the garlic flavor, but it does not take over the sauce.  (1/2 clove for 135g - 175g of sauce)  I do that for all my sauce ingredients. I never kill my tomato flavor anymore. Late garlic was probably the biggest improvement of it all for me. I wonder if their adding garlic method to the skin has a similar effect?

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on February 28, 2017, 08:29:12 AM
Is that a side of sauce for dipping that I see in the shot under the pie, Lou?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on February 28, 2017, 11:20:38 AM
Lou, since we know that the old dough is used at times so same day dough is not always served, hydration might be the key. although you probanly see same day more a lucalis then his brother place since lucali is busier. it seems that low hydrated same day gives you that crispy dough. there is no webbing in the end crust is there? it could be same day or extended with low cooler temps. not allowing a lot of development. Dom DeMarco was his model pizza maker when he started. and the dough in Doms pizza is said to be same day.i think Gianni is really close add some shredded hard cheese post bake and he could be close. small problem ,his dough looks a little better developed and probably has a better finished product.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 28, 2017, 11:40:19 AM
Wow, looks like you're getting very close. That cross section is a lot like what the side of a lucali pie looks like.

What was your thickness factor?

I was at Lucali tonight. It's still top two of the pies I've ever had..it was really excellent.

The lucali pie is 16". Not the rumored 24, or 20, or even 18". This one was definitely closer to 16". Perfect for two people. It was also not as thin as I remember, but the slices were very sturdy! No tip sag for a 3 minute bake, and the mozzarella was cooked PERFECTLY.

The only thing that's missing in that pizza master bake is those unique bubbles in the cornicione.

I would say 1) stick with that 3 minute bake. Your bottom and crust color looked really close to what I had tonight. 2) reduce the TF but roll evenly? Maybe 0.07 rolled evenly with a pin. I think your hydration was pretty close in that last one.

The thing about the lucali pie is...even when the slice is cold (I had leftovers I just ate,) the cornicione is still CRUNCHY. Not even crispy. Not soggy, not spongy...but CRUNCHY on a cold pie. That has to be a lower hydration?

Also, the post oven shredded (not grated) parmigiano is key for flavor

I've watched them make pies.  It looked like NY dough (55-58%) and they use a ton of bench flour, but no oil, has an elastic stretch, every roll of the dough keeps springing back and looks so cumbersome, and then they knuckle stretch.  They use All Trumps,  long fermented to get you big airy bubbles even tho it's rolled flat.  Some of their pies even end up looking like wheel barrow tires.  If I'd guess a TF, I'd think 0.08 TF, and pressed down tight with a pin or wine bottle as the case may be.  Once baked, their pizza slices fold.  t's thinner than a normal slice, but definitely thicker than a Joe and Pats.  Extended ferment and the crunch and lift at the rims is the oven at 700 deg + baked 3 minutes or so and the weak gluten.  The rims puff & lift like tortillas on a griddle and then stick there as opposed to drooping as the rim dries from high heat.  As I've said in other threads about other pizzerias, it's the oven that does most of the work along with proofing method and technique.

The pizza between the rims toward the center is moist and soft.  They use super wet sauce, there is a ton of steam.  I mentioned no oil cos we had leftovers packed and the crust was dead later.  Does not travel.  Also tried it in Miami, tastes different.  More crackery.


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on February 28, 2017, 12:07:36 PM
That is extra sauce for dipping crust. Good eye  ;D. Can't go to Lucali and not get a side of that awesome sauce!

58% Hydration is probably close. 0.08TF would be a little much...that's like Beddia. TF. 0.07 is probably were it's at. I didn't see them stretch the dough. Springing back sounds like typical all trumps gluten...maybe it's mixed intensely. I know when the hydration was very low at the beginning it was a huge issue rolling out the dough.

Either way, excellent pie. Even if it's a poorly made dough and it's not developed properly...it tastes incredible. I would test at home but there's no way I can replicate that 3 minute bake.

Harry- The pizza between the center and the rim for our pie last night was crisp. We could fold it with no sag, almost like a NY slice. I think you're theory to the hot sauce causing a softer center may be true. The side sauce we got on the side was barely warm....and it's the same sauce they put on the pizza. No hot sauce might mean no soft center in this case? The texture of the crust was excellent. We were both surprised how well it folded and held up.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 28, 2017, 12:14:15 PM
That is extra sauce for dipping crust. Good eye  ;D. Can't go to Lucali and not get a side of that awesome sauce!

58% Hydration is probably close. 0.08TF would be a little much...that's like Beddia. TF. 0.07 is probably were it's at. I didn't see them stretch the dough. Springing back sounds like typical all trumps gluten...maybe it's mixed intensely. I know when the hydration was very low at the beginning it was a huge issue rolling out the dough.

Either way, excellent pie. Even if it's a poorly made dough and it's not developed properly...it tastes incredible. I would test at home but there's no way I can replicate that 3 minute bake.

I agree, it's a tasty pizza they definitely use top shelf ingredients.  imo, 0.08 TF will be thinner than Beddia if you roll it with a bottle first.   You're compressing the dough and the wet sauce viscosity and the cheese kills any rise in the middle.  Crumb structure in the middle is tight.

It's "poorly made"  dough on purpose.  Americans associate bumps, bubbles, and "defects" as "artisan" style wheras a European baker would get fired for that.  It's something that's embedded within American psyche when it comes to food, like serving entrees on a "rustic" wood plank. 


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on February 28, 2017, 12:22:07 PM
Harry,

It didn't "eat" like a dense 0.08 TF though. Honestly, to my taste it was a little thinner than a typical NY slice. It is definitely thicker than a Rubirosa or Joe and Pat's pie, without a doubt.

But then again, I was told the dough balls are one pound. And the pie was 16"...which is that 0.08 TF. Wish I had a dough ball to weigh!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on February 28, 2017, 12:43:32 PM
Harry,

It didn't "eat" like a dense 0.08 TF though. Honestly, to my taste it was a little thinner than a typical NY slice. It is definitely thicker than a Rubirosa or Joe and Pat's pie, without a doubt.

But then again, I was told the dough balls are one pound. And the pie was 16"...which is that 0.08 TF. Wish I had a dough ball to weigh!

Could have something to do with a long cold ferment, it changes the texture and mouth feel.  I also think they open cold doughs.  I could see it in the dough color and sheen. 
 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 02, 2017, 11:53:21 AM
http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/2012/02/3T5D3856.jpg

Crazy up skirt shot. Interestingly enough, the closest wood fired pie I've had to lucali was Bianco in Phoenix. I think it's the bake time that makes the texture similar (Bianco's dough also didn't look all that wet.) Also the malted flour, and just salt water and yeast. But those crazy flat bubbles on the lucali pie are different.

I really do wonder what makes the Lucali crust so unique in its appearance. There really isn't another place that has a crust like ot
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 02, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
It looks like a flour tortilla.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 02, 2017, 09:32:22 PM
I also think the only "top shelf" ingredients they use is the buffalo mozz. I'm honestly okay with that (I find my favorite pizzas aren't always made with what many people consider the best of the best.)

I know they use all trumps bromated, red lettered flour. I "think" the buffalo mozz is from Lioni. I assume the low moisture mozz and tomatoes are from a standard pizzeria supplier.

I'll be going back to Lucali or Giuseppina next weekend. I might time a bake again or ask for a dough ball to go. The bake time (like bianco) in combination with the malted flour is enough for a crisp pie without destroying the mozzarella. It's a sweet spot I think.

I agree, it's a tasty pizza they definitely use top shelf ingredients.  imo, 0.08 TF will be thinner than Beddia if you roll it with a bottle first.   You're compressing the dough and the wet sauce viscosity and the cheese kills any rise in the middle.  Crumb structure in the middle is tight.

It's "poorly made"  dough on purpose.  Americans associate bumps, bubbles, and "defects" as "artisan" style wheras a European baker would get fired for that.  It's something that's embedded within American psyche when it comes to food, like serving entrees on a "rustic" wood plank.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on March 02, 2017, 10:37:31 PM
Lucali is 3 cheeses.  Topped with Lioni buffalo mozzarella and sliced Caprese style low moisture mozzarella (the type you find on NY Margheritas) and into the oven.  Pie is finished with big grates of 2 yr Grana Padano Stravecchio, Ligurian basil and olive oil a kind of homage to Di Fara. 

I also think the only "top shelf" ingredients they use is the buffalo mozz. I'm honestly okay with that (I find my favorite pizzas aren't always made with what many people consider the best of the best.)

I know they use all trumps bromated, red lettered flour. I "think" the buffalo mozz is from Lioni. I assume the low moisture mozz and tomatoes are from a standard pizzeria supplier.

I'll be going back to Lucali or Giuseppina next weekend. I might time a bake again or ask for a dough ball to go. The bake time (like bianco) in combination with the malted flour is enough for a crisp pie without destroying the mozzarella. It's a sweet spot I think.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 25, 2017, 12:55:29 AM
Sauce is cooked for 5 hours; garlic, olive oil, fresh basil, salt, and pepper. Milled canned whole peeled tomatoes.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 26, 2017, 01:02:58 PM
I'm not sure if I buy the 5 hour thing, but those are definitely the ingredients in the sauce. The tomatoes aren't anything special.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 26, 2017, 01:38:29 PM
I'm not sure if I buy the 5 hour thing, but those are definitely the ingredients in the sauce. The tomatoes aren't anything special.

It's still cooked though, right? Seems like basically a marinara. Mark said 5 hours in a Food Network clip, never had the pizza so I can't say.
The way they build the pizzas is really cool.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 26, 2017, 05:12:49 PM
It's definitely cooked, and in many cases it goes on the pizza warm. That being said, if I cook a sauce more than 30 minutes it starts to get really thick in a bad way....his sauce is cooked but its not chunky like a marinara...it's still pretty thin and smooth and flows nicely like if you were to just food mill a can of tomatoes and the juices. It's also not blended or milled after cooking because there's whole pieces of garlic and basil in it.

It's still cooked though, right? Seems like basically a marinara. Mark said 5 hours in a Food Network clip, never had the pizza so I can't say.
The way they build the pizzas is really cool.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 26, 2017, 05:19:52 PM
It's definitely cooked, and in many cases it goes on the pizza warm. That being said, if I cook a sauce more than 30 minutes it starts to get really thick in a bad way....his sauce is cooked but its not chunky like a marinara...it's still pretty thin and smooth and flows nicely like if you were to just food mill a can of tomatoes and the juices. It's also not blended or milled after cooking because there's whole pieces of garlic and basil in it.

Yeah it looks really thin, that's why I was surprised to hear him say 5 hours. It might be warm for 5 hours but it seems super thin to have actually been simmering for that long. This is the clip I was referencing, like you say he mills the tomatoes first before cooking.

https://youtu.be/VLP8-ieqbyU
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: tsalvino25 on July 19, 2017, 03:09:59 PM
My first attempt using almost the same recipe as Gianni5...although this is made with a home oven. I will add sugar next time in hopes to get better color on the crust. But the taste is phenomenal.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on July 19, 2017, 03:34:48 PM
My first attempt using almost the same recipe as Gianni5...although this is made with a home oven. I will add sugar next time in hopes to get better color on the crust. But the taste is phenomenal.

Looks good, seems like you're on the right path.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on March 06, 2018, 06:48:27 PM
My Lucali replica from today. Cooked in a Pavesei at 725 for 2.5 minutes. Was ok but not quite what i thought it be.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on March 06, 2018, 08:49:28 PM
Lou, I'll be interested in that bake time and temp...are we talking  mid 600's for 4-ish  minutes?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: TXCraig1 on March 06, 2018, 08:50:14 PM
My Lucali replica from today. Cooked in a Pavesei at 725 for 2.5 minutes. Was ok but not quite what i thought it be.

Did you roll out the dough?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 06, 2018, 09:14:17 PM
Lucali/Giuseppina's still makes my favorite pie - despite the supposed bad technique at every turn.

I routinely time their pizzas around 3 minutes. I actually had a pie last night that was timed at 2:50. The oven was rocking (they just tossed some wood in) and, surprisingly, the top was really not cooked that heavily. I wonder why that is. They don't get any leopard spotting, or bubbles that pop out - it's almost always a uniformly greyish-charcoal color.

It's actually not a super thin pie - I noticed the center of my slices was probably just a little thinner than a slice from Joe's. And the bottom isn't super crisp, either. There are some crisp spots here and there but there's also some softer areas - not unpleasant in any way, but just an observation.

Also, the sauce is almost always applied hot.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on March 06, 2018, 11:44:58 PM
Dough was rolled with a straight rolling pin. Supposed to be 0.07 TF at 16". Oven was 725-750 for 2m 30s bake. Was good but crust was only a 24 hour cf, the yeast amount i used would fit 48hr better. The oven is gas powered without any wood. I never thought I'd prefer my new york and bar pies cooked at 550-600. I guess maybe I like crisper doughs.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on March 07, 2018, 12:30:48 PM
 lucali's pizza is very good. the use of a warm garlic infused tomato sauce and high quality ingredients is what makes this pie. the crust is crisp bubbly  around the edges. probably caused by the rolling pin method used for the pre-stretch. it has perfect balance. another thing that they do is sprinkle panko bread crumbs on the metal serving pan which seem to keep the pizza crisp.
 that pizza video that David Chang did on lucali's has made a hard to get into pizzeria even harder to visit.
 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 07, 2018, 02:13:42 PM
Too bad no one knows about his brother's spot...

lucali's pizza is very good. the use of a warm garlic infused tomato sauce and high quality ingredients is what makes this pie. the crust is crisp bubbly  around the edges. probably caused by the rolling pin method used for the pre-stretch. it has perfect balance. another thing that they do is sprinkle panko bread crumbs on the metal serving pan which seem to keep the pizza crisp.
 that pizza video that David Chang did on lucali's has made a hard to get into pizzeria even harder to visit.
 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on March 07, 2018, 07:10:53 PM
And....we still don't LOL. Gonna tell us, Lou?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 07, 2018, 07:17:14 PM
His brothers place is Giuseppina's
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on March 07, 2018, 11:14:15 PM
Thanks Ryan..Just checked it out and I see the strong similarities
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Hermit on March 13, 2018, 01:50:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSHh0MmJM1U
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Cosmic Goop on March 13, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSHh0MmJM1U

Great video with some good insights into his pizza making process. Everytime I see this pie I want to try to clone it.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on March 13, 2018, 07:19:32 PM
Hw said that they don't use much water in their dough. Maybe 60% hydration is to high.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 13, 2018, 07:49:36 PM
I've used exactly 60% hydration with good results. It rolled out pretty easily with a wine bottle. I would say no more than 60%.

Bet on him using a popular, high protein pizzeria flour that's used in almost all pizza shops .... :angel:

Hw said that they don't use much water in their dough. Maybe 60% hydration is to high.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hammettjr on March 13, 2018, 09:22:28 PM
I watched a video this morning where he claimed the reason he rolls the dough is that they use less water than most pizzerias...not sure if that's true though
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on March 13, 2018, 10:10:55 PM
Not Many secrets.

All Trumps Flour at a low hydration with just fwsy.

San Marzanos blended in food mill cooked for 4 hours

low moisture and buffalo moss finished with reggiano and basil

Just need to figure out the dough fermentation process
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsaras on March 13, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Not Many secrets.

All Trumps Flour at a low hydration with just fwsy.

San Marzanos blended in food mill cooked for 4 hours

low moisture and buffalo moss finished with reggiano and basil

Just need to figure out the dough fermentation process

He's seems like a very personal and likeable guy.  I hope to get an opportunity to try it.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 14, 2018, 02:23:28 AM
Not San Marzano...

Not Many secrets.

All Trumps Flour at a low hydration with just fwsy.

San Marzanos blended in food mill cooked for 4 hours

low moisture and buffalo moss finished with reggiano and basil

Just need to figure out the dough fermentation process
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on March 14, 2018, 11:18:17 AM
Not Many secrets.

All Trumps Flour at a low hydration with just fwsy.

San Marzanos blended in food mill cooked for 4 hours

low moisture and buffalo moss finished with reggiano and basil

Just need to figure out the dough fermentation process

Basically a thin rolled out Difara tasting pizza in an NP oven.  Polly O + bufala + grana padano aka reggiano + cooked sauce + ligurian basil.   I recall someone saying it's a 1-2 day CF All Trumps dough which makes sense to weaken it some and get some lift in the rim tho I'm sure the wood fire helps in the oven spring.  From the videos Mark says low hydration (I'm guessing 55% as starting point), thas the only way you can use a rolling pin or wine bottle as the case may be.  It's a good pizza, and the type of pizza you eat with wine and like Mark says it's about the ratios, that's probably the most difficult part and most time consuming and then having an NP oven.  The oven does the other half of the work to achieve the pie's characteristics.  Bake hot and fast.


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HarryHaller73 on March 14, 2018, 11:26:02 AM
Quietdesperation mentioned a new food show on Netflix called "Ugly Delicious" with David Chang.  Just watched it last week. The pizza episode has alot on Lucali and NY pizza.  It's quite entertaining.  Mark says "Italy invented it [pizza], Italian-Americans perfected it."  though he says Dominos isn't pizza, lol.

https://www.eater.com/2018/2/23/17025722/ugly-delicious-pizza-recap-season-1-episode-1

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Cosmic Goop on March 14, 2018, 12:25:58 PM
I gave it an attempt last night with 100% kabf, 57% h2o,1% oil, 2% salt, 0% sugar.  Rt 6hr fermintation. Dough rolled easy with a wine bottle with the help of some flour. 320g balls

First pie rolled to 12.5inch  cooked at 750f for 2:30min and looked good but too thick. Crust bottom and top browned well Large bubbles formed (almost too large) in the crust

Second pie rolled to 13.5inch cooked at 650f for 3 min. Crust top looked good but bottom was not as brown as I would have hoped. Smaller bubbles we're formed.

I think with a 320g ball I should stretch closer to 14 inch for a thinner pie.

I noticed that the Lucali pie is rolled and then knuckle stretched at the end. My theory is that he stays very close to the edge of the pie when he knuckle stretches which creates imperfections in the dough promoting crust bubbles
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Cosmic Goop on March 14, 2018, 12:26:53 PM
Pics of second pie
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 18, 2018, 08:53:19 PM
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51711.msg521071#msg521071
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 19, 2018, 12:57:01 PM
Great reference. This looks almost exactly like Lucali and the bake time is spot on as well. Thereís no oil or sugar in his dough to my knowledge - but you can see the relatively quick bake and rolling pin give it that look. Maybe the 57 to 59% hydration range is right

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51711.msg521071#msg521071
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: misterschu on March 19, 2018, 02:47:10 PM
I watched a video this morning where he claimed the reason he rolls the dough is that they use less water than most pizzerias...not sure if that's true though

In the Ugly Delicious episode mentioned above, Mark says he rolls out the dough because it gets crispier that way.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 19, 2018, 02:49:03 PM
Great reference. This looks almost exactly like Lucali and the bake time is spot on as well. Thereís no oil or sugar in his dough to my knowledge - but you can see the relatively quick bake and rolling pin give it that look. Maybe the 57 to 59% hydration range is right

I make NY with 55% hydration (bread flour) so I would guesstimate somewhere between 50-55% water and the right dough ball weight would be pretty close. I think you want just enough water for your flours protein %, that way it's not too much work to roll out on the low end, yet doesn't stick much to the counter/need much bench flour on the high end.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pete-zza on March 27, 2018, 08:38:41 PM
Lucali made it in the list of where top chefs go to eat in NYC as featured at Bloomberg at:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-27/where-top-chefs-go-out-to-eat-in-new-york

Peter
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 29, 2018, 01:16:02 AM
Lucali made it in the list of where top chefs go to eat in NYC as featured at Bloomberg at:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-27/where-top-chefs-go-out-to-eat-in-new-york

Peter

Pretty impressive for a place that cooks their sauce.     :)
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on March 29, 2018, 11:34:01 AM
Mark also said he cuts ingredients to order for pies because they "retain their moisture and they have more flavor."

I don't think he knows why or how he does things. They just work and he nailed a combination of things to make a great pie.

In the Ugly Delicious episode mentioned above, Mark says he rolls out the dough because it gets crispier that way.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: invertedisdead on March 29, 2018, 02:08:32 PM
Mark also said he cuts ingredients to order for pies because they "retain their moisture and they have more flavor."

I don't think he knows why or how he does things. They just work and he nailed a combination of things to make a great pie.

Pre-prepping increases oxidation.

Plus it takes longer just like Dom @ DiFara which is a good thing for marketing, makes the lines longer and makes the place look even more exclusive and "artisan"

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: owan on April 10, 2018, 11:44:26 AM
I don't think he knows why or how he does things. They just work and he nailed a combination of things to make a great pie.

I kind of get this impression too. On the Pizza Show interview with Frank from Best Pizza he makes the process of learning how to make pizza seem like an afterthought compared to just buying the space. He kind of worked some stuff out that works really well, probably tapped in to a bunch of local knowledge and some italian heritage recipes and boom. Thats probably why some of this stuff seems so haphazard or counter-intuitive.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jackie Tran on April 11, 2018, 08:31:13 AM
Here are a few pics I took from our recent pizza tour that might help.

The dough is rolled out with the wine bottle aggressively, very agressively.  Open skins are stacked like flour tortillas until ready to be opened by hand.  I'm thinking the HG flour combined with a low hydration creates a strong dough.  This stacking of dough may be necessary to help the gluten relax before they're opened.  The dough is opened pretty thin.  Typical thickness for a NY pie.  However the pie has a substantial amount of cheese so the overall slice is thicker.   Also the sauce looks pretty thin.  That is not a 4-5 hour cooked sauce.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jackie Tran on April 11, 2018, 08:45:18 AM
My initial thoughts on the crust is that it's BF, low hydration, no sugar or oil in it. I'm a bit surprised to hear that it's All Trump's.   The rim is dry and a bit crackery with a bit of chew when eaten fresh.  Once cooled it toughens up a bit. It's crunchy and a bit tough, so it's better eaten fresh. What made the pie good for me were the fresh toppings and sauce.  The crust isn't all that special.  This is likely an upscale version of a Di Fara pie. 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsaras on April 11, 2018, 09:46:06 PM
My initial thoughts on the crust is that it's BF, low hydration, no sugar or oil in it. I'm a bit surprised to hear that it's All Trump's.   The rim is dry and a bit crackery with a bit of chew when eaten fresh.  Once cooled it toughens up a bit. It's crunchy and a bit tough, so it's better eaten fresh. What made the pie good for me were the fresh toppings and sauce.  The crust isn't all that special.  This is likely an upscale version of a Di Fara pie.

Some of the undercarriage looks a bit toasted
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Rolls on April 11, 2018, 11:34:07 PM
My quibble is with the basil.  There's too much - and it reminds me of hedge clippings.


Rolls
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on April 12, 2018, 01:38:17 AM
Jonas, as Chau notes, the dough wasn't anything special..but the entire pie, eaten hot and without dissecting elements was very delicious.


Rolls, the basil is really just decorative at that quantity I think...I love basil, but i'm not going to munch a few leaves of it! To be be picky, it would have been nice to have some chiffonade basil on the pie for actual eating, then if the need to use springs of basil for visuals is there, do that in addition
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott123 on April 12, 2018, 01:54:07 AM
That is not a 4-5 hour cooked sauce.

You know what?  I looked at the sauce and I tasted it, and everything about it screams uncooked.  It's not even the color of a cooked sauce. Look at it. A cooked sauce would never be that pink. I might be wrong, but I'm really feeling it's uncooked. As to why he'd say it's cooked? PR? Subterfuge?

Jonas, just to add the the existing chorus, Lucali is really about the ingredients, not necessarily the dough. The dough isn't bad, it's just not stupendous.  What is stupendous is the calabro ricotta he uses in the calzones, as is the beef pepperoni. The sauce and the cheese felt like a really nice marriage, but really no better than most of the other standout places on our tour.  The beef pepperoni and the ricotta- no one else had those, though.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott123 on April 12, 2018, 02:08:04 AM
I'm a bit surprised to hear that it's All Trump's.

I'm not :)  Once cooled, it was tough and chewy, and, when I looked around, practically no one had eaten their bones.  Eventually, everyone did because the calzones took about a half hour to arrive, but, had the next course been timely I would say that at least 50% of the rim would have gone uneaten.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on April 12, 2018, 10:50:04 AM
Crust just looks kindve average. He uses top shelf ingredients but the dough itself is not really special. The browning looks like even browning so would not be surprised if its a same day dough, (life Difaras)
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott123 on April 12, 2018, 11:37:33 AM
The browning looks like even browning so would not be surprised if its a same day dough, (life Difaras)

I think you may be right, although, if we're going to spit hairs, DiFaras is 1 hour, 2 most, and, based on the taste, I'm certain this was more than that.  Everyone at the tour gauged Totonno's to be about a 6 hour ferment, although they might be messing around with 00 because of the coal oven (Totonno's was especially bland). Lucal's crust wasn't bursting with umami, but it wasn't bland either.  I don't see Mark as being a early morning kind of guy- but perhaps he has people that make the dough in the morning- or maybe, it' s made the night before. Also, I didn't look around that much, but I don't think there's any kitchen or mixer in Lucali- unless it's in the basement?  Perhaps he's using an outside vendor for the dough.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on April 12, 2018, 03:58:09 PM
https://slice.seriouseats.com/2006/10/loucallies.html
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: quietdesperation on April 12, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
JPB, thanks for posting the article, looks like the beef pepperoni comes from the butcher shop we visited, good to know. I've been avoiding shopping there since I backed into the car of one of the butchers  :)  based on our visit, looks like the coast is clear!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on April 12, 2018, 04:56:01 PM
Sure QD...I think you're okay there :)  What a great butcher shop!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott123 on April 12, 2018, 05:18:45 PM
JPB, thanks for posting the article, looks like the beef pepperoni comes from the butcher shop we visited, good to know. I've been avoiding shopping there since I backed into the car of one of the butchers  :)  based on our visit, looks like the coast is clear!

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12060.0

I'm not sure how much of the $100 is shipping, but these sound like pretty pricey pepperoni.

JPB, nice find on that article. I wasn't sure if Lucali's pepperoni was always beef. Apparently it has been.

I will give Mark credit for one thing.  Considering it's been 12 years, the lines are long, and Beyonce and Paul McCartney have walked through his door, he really hasn't jacked up his prices much.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on April 18, 2018, 11:23:09 AM
The sauce does trouble me. I personally think it's cooked like he says because he serves the same sauce with his meatballs! Its just so thin which in counterintuitive to the 4 hour sauce that he says it is. He has said so many times that he cooks it, he would have to be a really really good liar. I don't know what to think.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott r on April 18, 2018, 03:26:00 PM
Its VERY easy to cook a sauce and not have it thicken up much.  You either have it on a really low simmer OR you just put a lid on it! 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott123 on April 18, 2018, 03:48:37 PM
Its VERY easy to cook a sauce and not have it thicken up much.  You either have it on a really low simmer OR you just put a lid on it!

True, but is it possible to cook a sauce for 4 hours and not end up with a slightly darker tint?  These could be some of the brightest colored tomatoes I've ever come across. One thing to bear in mind is that all of the photos you're seeing were shot in candle light, so the color might be a bit warmer than in person.

One really doesn't think about blue in relation to a tomato, but, technically, if you're looking at the shades of red in tomatoes, one direction is towards yellow (orange) and the other direction is towards blue.  Cooking a tomato takes it from the blue side of red to the orangey yellow side.  These had a lot of that bluey red.  San Marzanos can lean in that direction as well.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Chi_Guy on April 18, 2018, 06:01:00 PM
Is it possible that he's using fresh tomatoes?  Canned tomatoes definitely darken within 20 minutes of cooking while fresh tomatoes still retain a nice bright color. 

I don't doubt that he cooks his sauce but I'm scratching my head on the 4 hour time.  Even fresh tomatoes will change color when cooked that long.  Only feasible explaination is the one scott f gave...they must be cooking the sauce hella slow.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on April 18, 2018, 06:09:02 PM
not fresh tomatoes, there plum tomatoes, he sells them in a jar at his place. its just looks so thin and bright, it's just hard to figure out the 4 hour thing. heat would have to so low.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Rolls on April 18, 2018, 06:18:03 PM
I bet he has a lot of tomato paste in there.*


Rolls

*Edit:  The reason I say this is because using tomato paste might account for the highly saturated red color of Lucali's sauce. 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott123 on April 18, 2018, 06:49:34 PM
I bet he has a lot of tomato paste in there.

No doubt. Word has it that the recipe is straight from the Pizza Bible.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on April 18, 2018, 10:56:32 PM
You know what?  I looked at the sauce and I tasted it, and everything about it screams uncooked.  It's not even the color of a cooked sauce. Look at it. A cooked sauce would never be that pink. I might be wrong, but I'm really feeling it's uncooked. As to why he'd say it's cooked? PR? Subterfuge?

Jonas, just to add the the existing chorus, Lucali is really about the ingredients, not necessarily the dough. The dough isn't bad, it's just not stupendous.  What is stupendous is the calabro ricotta he uses in the calzones, as is the beef pepperoni. The sauce and the cheese felt like a really nice marriage, but really no better than most of the other standout places on our tour.  The beef pepperoni and the ricotta- no one else had those, though.

 Scott i would not bet you anything about pizza,but unless the methods have changed his sauce goes on the pizza hot from a kettle. he uses the same kettle of sauce for his calzone  accompaniment.  i saw the steam coming off of it as it was ladled from the kettle onto my pizza. probably have a picture somewhere. to me his sauce is what makes his pizza different.


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: 30grantw on April 18, 2018, 11:01:53 PM
  Scott i would not bet you anything about pizza,but unless the methods have changed his sauce goes on the pizza hot from a kettle. he uses the same kettle of sauce for his calzone  accompaniment.  i saw the steam coming off of it as it was ladled from the kettle onto my pizza. probably have a picture somewhere. to me his sauce is what makes his pizza different.

I guess there we have it.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jackie Tran on April 19, 2018, 01:03:22 PM
The sauce could be cooked.  I don't believe it is cooked for 4-5 hrs though.  Look at the picture of the sauce I took.  If you've ever cooked a sauce for even two hours it doesn't look like that.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on April 19, 2018, 01:12:10 PM
He actually doesn't sell those tomatoes. I know, because I've tried to buy them.

not fresh tomatoes, there plum tomatoes, he sells them in a jar at his place. its just looks so thin and bright, it's just hard to figure out the 4 hour thing. heat would have to so low.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on April 19, 2018, 01:14:11 PM
It is lightly cooked, applied hot, and contains only plum tomatoes, olive oil, garlic, basil, salt, and pepper. There is no tomato paste whatsoever. Get a side of it for the crust - it's the furthest thing from a cooked-down Italian American red sauce. It's very fluid, not thick or chunky at all, relatively fresh tasting but with some depth of flavor.

There's no need to overthink it - the sauce is really very simple.

The sauce could be cooked.  I don't believe it is cooked for 4-5 hrs though.  Look at the picture of the sauce I took.  If you've ever cooked a sauce for even two hours it doesn't look like that.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott123 on April 19, 2018, 04:04:34 PM
Scott i would not bet you anything about pizza,but unless the methods have changed his sauce goes on the pizza hot from a kettle. he uses the same kettle of sauce for his calzone  accompaniment.  i saw the steam coming off of it as it was ladled from the kettle onto my pizza. probably have a picture somewhere. to me his sauce is what makes his pizza different.

Larry, I think this shines some valuable light on this area  While I think it's incredibly odd to ladle hot sauce onto a pizza skin, and that the sauce would likely warm the skin and cause it to stick to the peel, if you say that's what he's doing, then I believe you.

Based on what you're saying, along with his 4-5 hour claims, and the color of the sauce on the pies we had, I have a very strong feeling that he might get to work, put the sauce on the heat, open shop, and, as the night progresses the early diners get a relatively uncooked sauce, while the later diners see more cooking.

That would basically explain our impressions of a less cooked sauce, while still, on some level, matching up with his 4-5 hour claim.

You have to figure that he can't turn the burner on high or the sauce will scorch, so it makes sense that it might take time for the sauce to come up to just below a simmer.

Here's the big question :) What time did you go?  Was it right around opening time or was it later?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Tscarborough on April 20, 2018, 07:39:00 AM
Please keep it on topic, people.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Matthew on April 20, 2018, 08:09:43 AM
Please keep it on topic, people.


Thanks for intervening Tom
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: thezaman on April 20, 2018, 11:11:59 AM
 i would bet he cooks his sauce enough to mellow out the tomatoes. it is very thin so a long slow cooking process wouldnt thicken it much.it was more of a tomato and garlic tasting sauce with added salt. he seem to rely on basil and a grated hard cheese to finish his pizza and calzones with for his flavors.
 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: JSPACEMAN on May 19, 2018, 06:38:10 AM
I've decided to have a go at this.

I've started the sauce, this is about one hour in. I believe he must be adding a bit of water with tomatoes left over from a bowl or can every hour. I've just added a tiny bit myself with the bottom bits of tomato in the can. Seems to de-thicken it without taking taste away.

These are the dough balls I made last night (22:00 UK time I put them in the fridge)

It's now 11:36 and this is how they look. I don't know if it's going to work or not.

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: JSPACEMAN on May 19, 2018, 12:12:40 PM
No oil or sugar. Just Flour, Salt and Yeast.

Here's my attempt - I don't know how close it was, but it was one of the best Pizza's I've ever eaten.

I didn't think this flour would work, but it looks like I've found a secret bargain!

I'll deffo be making it again. That was just a tester, I'll make the missus some when she gets home from work.

Thanks for the recipe!  :pizza:
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: quietdesperation on May 19, 2018, 10:07:07 PM
jspaceman, looks delicious, here are some photos from lucalis for comparison:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51896.msg523862#msg523862

one of the odd things we noticed is that he opens his dough balls and then stacks them, uncooked, one on top of another, like crepes.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Georgev on May 22, 2018, 12:15:55 PM
jspaceman, looks delicious, here are some photos from lucalis for comparison:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51896.msg523862#msg523862

one of the odd things we noticed is that he opens his dough balls and then stacks them, uncooked, one on top of another, like crepes.

If he uses a low hydration it makes it easier to open if you have it half way open and let it get to room temperature.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Crumb93 on June 12, 2018, 04:43:53 PM
No oil or sugar. Just Flour, Salt and Yeast.

Here's my attempt - I don't know how close it was, but it was one of the best Pizza's I've ever eaten.

I didn't think this flour would work, but it looks like I've found a secret bargain!

I'll deffo be making it again. That was just a tester, I'll make the missus some when she gets home from work.

Thanks for the recipe!  :pizza:

Would someone be willing to share this specific dough recipe with me? What percentages did you use? I've seen a basic breakdown of everyone's thoughts on the sauce. He consistently seems to say that he cooks it down for five hours, which I find surprising.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on June 17, 2018, 12:12:40 AM
New here guys. I have been using an Unni Pro for a day and figured Iíd make an attempt at the Lucali pizza. I used Caputo 00, 57% hydration, .5g yeast, and 21g salt. Did a 24 hour room temp ferment following some Neapolitan instructions. I followed Markís instructions on some of the Lucali YouTube videos and rolled the dough out and then opened it agin with my knuckles. I used a 4 hour sauce and used the cheese he mentions in the videos.

Note: The dough stuck to my container during the dough ball rise (assuming not enough flour and it over proofed a little) so I didnít get a perfect circle, but it was a test for the Unni Pro so whatever. I also cooked it at 900į which was too hot I know but just wanted to test it out. The calzone in the pictures was cooked around 600-700į.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on June 27, 2018, 12:45:50 PM
No caputo, no room temp fermentation. All trumps red bag. Fridge in tins.

New here guys. I have been using an Unni Pro for a day and figured Iíd make an attempt at the Lucali pizza. I used Caputo 00, 57% hydration, .5g yeast, and 21g salt. Did a 24 hour room temp ferment following some Neapolitan instructions. I followed Markís instructions on some of the Lucali YouTube videos and rolled the dough out and then opened it agin with my knuckles. I used a 4 hour sauce and used the cheese he mentions in the videos.

Note: The dough stuck to my container during the dough ball rise (assuming not enough flour and it over proofed a little) so I didnít get a perfect circle, but it was a test for the Unni Pro so whatever. I also cooked it at 900į which was too hot I know but just wanted to test it out. The calzone in the pictures was cooked around 600-700į.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on June 27, 2018, 03:20:18 PM
So interesting Lou....how long in fridge?   Is AT in red bag different than the AT at  RD...kraft bag with red and blue lettering..the kind that pizza shops use 50 of daily, and  one bag lasts me a year and a half  :-D
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on July 06, 2018, 12:17:41 PM
No caputo, no room temp fermentation. All trumps red bag. Fridge in tins.

Thank you. Figured they didnít use Caputo, but itís all I have at the moment. I basically wanted to try Neapolitan prep in the Lucali style. Not exact but fun to experiment. Awesome have the info though this pic is from my second attempt which was much better.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on July 06, 2018, 12:54:50 PM
Looks good!...How did you like it? What kind of times and temps were you using?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jimshirez on July 21, 2018, 09:30:27 AM
Thank you. Figured they didnít use Caputo, but itís all I have at the moment. I basically wanted to try Neapolitan prep in the Lucali style. Not exact but fun to experiment. Awesome have the info though this pic is from my second attempt which was much better.

Pod I have just bought an Uuni pro and am keen to try this recipe out. How did you going about rolling out? did you roll round to the edge then let it rest for a while? I'm a bit worried about having a flat/dense crust with the rolling.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on August 26, 2018, 03:02:00 AM
Looks good!...How did you like it? What kind of times and temps were you using?

Sorry I took so long to reply. Thank you! I believe that was cooked around 800-900į for 2-3 minutes. Canít remember the exact time it took but I do remember I got the Ooni Pro around the max for it.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on August 26, 2018, 03:06:49 AM
Pod I have just bought an Uuni pro and am keen to try this recipe out. How did you going about rolling out? did you roll round to the edge then let it rest for a while? I'm a bit worried about having a flat/dense crust with the rolling.

Sorry I took so long to reply also. How do you like it!? Iíve been using mine for 2 months and love it. I think I rolled it out to the edge and then checked the oven temp and then came in and opened/stretched the dough. I know Lucali rolls them out and then places them on each other one by one in a pile, and then opens them once the order comes in. Pizzeria Regina seems to do the same with their dough ďdiscsĒ while covering them with plastic wrap. I noticed in a video someone posted of them doing this. Somehow the crust came out perfect for what I wanted, but maybe due to it being a 900į degree bake. I think I made it a very dry dough and probably even used the VPN method for kneading and yeast amounts. 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on March 17, 2019, 09:52:24 PM
No caputo, no room temp fermentation. All trumps red bag. Fridge in tins.

Looked over this reply again, and it makes me want to re-attempt this.  While I loved my pizza last year, you're obviously right about the CF and all trumps.  I don't have All Trumps anymore, but the closest I have is Bread Flour.  It won't be exact, but I want to try to get the bubbles.  I think I'll try a long CF and maybe around 57% hydration.  I'm a bit unsure of the yeast amount but maybe .20-.60% IDY.  No sugar or oil.  This will be very similar to my PR CF, but drier, and without any oil.  I want to do some testing on the effects of rolling out the dough and leaving it on the counter, and also rolling out cold dough as I've read on this thread.  I've been very impressed with long CF and definitely would add extra flavor that my pizza was missing last year. I wonder how long Lucali is CF for?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on March 24, 2019, 05:31:04 AM
So I made my latest attempt. Cold fermented for about 15 hours after mixing in the food processor. I rolled out the dough cold from the fridge and let it sit on the counter for a bit. You can see the dough did form a crust from being left out, but it was just a test. I then rolled it out to about 13Ē and then hand stretched it until it was 16Ē. I topped it with a kitchen ready Pastene ground tomato (next time Iíll use plum tomatoes in the can, but the KR worked out just fine), garlic, black pepper, and salt concoction that cooked for about 30 min-1 hour. I did add a bit of water to the sauce, when it cooked down. I wanted to get it to the thin consistency Iíve seen. Sauce was spread on while still hot and then topped with low moisture mozz. I didnít have any fresh mozz so I omitted it just for this test. I dusted the pizza pan with bread crumbs. When the pizza came out of the oven, I then topped it with shredded Parmigiano-Reggiano and fresh basil leaves. The cornicione is a bit big, but I was just concerned about getting the pizza in the oven quickly and wanted to see the bubbling without sauce and cheese getting in the way of the testing. It did puff up like a tortilla or pita and was a bit over cooked. Itís a very rustic pizza and extremely crispy from the low hydration. I cooked it around 660F until the cheese melted into a nice orange color with the sauce.  Since the oven isnít at 700-900F, it does dry out more with the longer cook time, but I feel 660F does a good job.

One thing I did notice reading this thread today, that another user commented on an earlier page, was that the crust is crackery, but has some tenderness to it. Thatís exactly how mine was. It was pretty crackery mostly, but at the end, it was a bit tender and soft.

 Flour (100%): 250.63 g  |  8.84 oz | 0.55 lbs
Water (57%): 142.86 g  |  5.04 oz | 0.31 lbs
IDY (.20%): 0.5 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
Salt (2%): 5.01 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.9 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Total (159.2%): 399.01 g | 14.07 oz | 0.88 lbs | TF = 0.07

Feel free to up the yeast, but with one day ferments I like to use low amounts for low yeast taste.

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: rtt121 on March 24, 2019, 09:51:23 AM
So I made my latest attempt. Cold fermented for about 15 hours after mixing in the food processor. I rolled out the dough cold from the fridge and let it sit on the counter for a bit. You can see the dough did form a crust from being left out, but it was just a test. I then rolled it out to about 13Ē and then hand stretched it until it was 16Ē. I topped it with a kitchen ready Pastene ground tomato (next time Iíll use plum tomatoes in the can, but the KR worked out just fine), garlic, black pepper, and salt concoction that cooked for about 30 min-1 hour. I did add a bit of water to the sauce, when it cooked down. I wanted to get it to the thin consistency Iíve seen. Sauce was spread on while still hot and then topped with low moisture mozz. I didnít have any fresh mozz so I omitted it just for this test. I dusted the pizza pan with bread crumbs. When the pizza came out of the oven, I then topped it with shredded Parmigiano-Reggiano and fresh basil leaves. The cornicione is a bit big, but I was just concerned about getting the pizza in the oven quickly and wanted to see the bubbling without sauce and cheese getting in the way of the testing. It did puff up like a tortilla or pita and was a bit over cooked. Itís a very rustic pizza and extremely crispy from the low hydration. I cooked it around 660F until the cheese melted into a nice orange color with the sauce.  Since the oven isnít at 700-900F, it does dry out more with the longer cook time, but I feel 660F does a good job.

One thing I did notice reading this thread today, that another user commented on an earlier page, was that the crust is crackery, but has some tenderness to it. Thatís exactly how mine was. It was pretty crackery mostly, but at the end, it was a bit tender and soft.

 Flour (100%): 250.63 g  |  8.84 oz | 0.55 lbs
Water (57%): 142.86 g  |  5.04 oz | 0.31 lbs
IDY (.20%): 0.5 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
Salt (2%): 5.01 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.9 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Total (159.2%): 399.01 g | 14.07 oz | 0.88 lbs | TF = 0.07

Feel free to up the yeast, but with one day ferments I like to use low amounts for low yeast taste.
Nice. I think the bufala and lmwm combo make the pizza. When I ate there I noted how cheese dominant it was. Here is one I did last week. Same recipe as yours but only a 5 hr rt in balls.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on March 24, 2019, 11:38:26 AM
All you need now is the 2 hour wait time and the velvet rope :-D
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on March 24, 2019, 02:45:56 PM
Nice. I think the bufala and lmwm combo make the pizza. When I ate there I noted how cheese dominant it was. Here is one I did last week. Same recipe as yours but only a 5 hr rt in balls.

Yup thatís very true and man, your pizza looks amazing. Itís funny, my last attempt was about a 5 hour rt ferment and it came out really good too. The thing with fresh mozz is that I need to learn to not char it. I donít think Lucaliís does, but Iíve heard the key is keeping the fresh mozz in bigger chunks. I try to avoid the browning on the fresh mozzarella, but I love it for dry Mozzarella.  Yours looks perfect, with little circles of bufala.  Haha I should set up a 2 hour wait for myself  :-D

Do you think the rolled discs sit out and dry out as mine did, or do they use them quicker/cover them? Mine dried out in about 5-10 min.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: rtt121 on March 24, 2019, 03:05:31 PM
Yup thatís very true and man, your pizza looks amazing. Itís funny, my last attempt was about a 5 hour rt ferment and it came out really good too. The thing with fresh mozz is that I need to learn to not char it. I donít think Lucaliís does, but Iíve heard the key is keeping the fresh mozz in bigger chunks. I try to avoid the browning on the fresh mozzarella, but I love it for dry Mozzarella.  Yours looks perfect, with little circles of bufala.  Haha I should set up a 2 hour wait for myself  :-D

Do you think the rolled discs sit out and dry out as mine did, or do they use them quicker/cover them? Mine dried out in about 5-10 min.

No 2 hour wait necessary! hehe

My rolled discs did not get a skin on them after 15 mins or so.  Lucali's did not either, they were stacking them so the only chance for a skin would be on top and I don't think they have to worry about them sitting longer than they intend for them to sit.  I was surprised at the skin your disc developed.  Is it possible this dough was not kneaded until smooth and stretchable? The reason I ask is the outside edges seem to have that cracky jagged aspect that I assume looked that way before the disc formed a skin?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on March 24, 2019, 03:42:03 PM
No 2 hour wait necessary! hehe

My rolled discs did not get a skin on them after 15 mins or so.  Lucali's did not either, they were stacking them so the only chance for a skin would be on top and I don't think they have to worry about them sitting longer than they intend for them to sit.  I was surprised at the skin your disc developed.  Is it possible this dough was not kneaded until smooth and stretchable? The reason I ask is the outside edges seem to have that cracky jagged aspect that I assume looked that way before the disc formed a skin?

Haha thankfully!
Thatís good yours didnít. I think mine did only because they were so dry and left out maybe even over 20 min. I couldnít remember. The dough windowpaned though, and stretched to a very thin membrane that didnít show well in the pics. I was surprised by the cracks edges too, but that only formed after it sat for a while. I think itís  just that it was super dry and sat out for a long time. I never have this issue with 70% effective hydration doughs. It was testing though, so now I know to not let them sit out as long. I did have this happen with another lower hydration dough before.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: rtt121 on March 24, 2019, 03:55:23 PM
Got it.

Maybe next time just put a peice of saran on top while it  rests.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on March 24, 2019, 06:58:54 PM
Got it.

Maybe next time just put a peice of saran on top while it  rests.

Yup exactly what I was thinking. I wanted to document the properties of the dough, but was a bit sad about the skin/crust that built up. Didnít affect the texture much though, since this is such a crispy pizza. But still, I try to avoid it. Normally I only take my dough out right before I stretch it. I want to make another one this week and maybe CF it for a few days. I may also try 9 fats like my PR pizza.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: adistler1 on April 04, 2019, 12:07:36 AM
My last attempt.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jkb on April 04, 2019, 01:05:28 AM
My last attempt.

Last or latest?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on April 06, 2019, 03:13:27 AM
My last attempt.

Looks awesome and definitely hope it's not your last ;D. I need to do another cook this week.  This pizza definitely has that rustic feel to it and sometimes I just want a crispy pizza.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: adistler1 on April 08, 2019, 12:08:14 AM
Last or latest?
My latest! Although, I really do need a proper pizza oven. Itís exhausting trying to pull these off in a Big Green Egg.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on April 13, 2019, 12:35:55 AM
My latest! Although, I really do need a proper pizza oven. Itís exhausting trying to pull these off in a Big Green Egg.

Well you do an amazing job.  I do recommend the Uuni Pro.  It only takes 20-30 minutes to heat up and can do 16" pizzas pretty easily.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: bakeshack on April 30, 2019, 12:37:14 PM
I went to NY last week but missed out on Lucali (Monday was super busy, Tuesday closed) and Giuseppina (they were closed the entire time I was there)  so I was really disappointed. 

I was able to buy some pepperoni from G. Esposito Pork store before I left so I made one inspired by Lucali.  The dough was very old (2 weeks in  bulk) but still felt pretty good so I used it late last night since I havenít had a chance to make some new dough since I got back.  Hydration is 56% using power flour, fresh yeast, with 2.5% salt.  I rolled it out Lucali-style and baked in my electric deck at 680F with an aggressive top heat for about 3.5min to approximate a WFO bake.   

Pretty good late night eats.  The pepperoni was very different from what Iím used to but very good.  Meaty and very flavorful. 



Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on April 30, 2019, 04:33:16 PM
Looks like you've got the good right there!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: pizzadaheim on April 30, 2019, 06:17:26 PM
Someone knows which brand of oven Lucali has got?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 01, 2019, 07:09:26 AM
Someone knows which brand of oven Lucali has got?

That's the oven in Miami. Site-built maybe?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on May 01, 2019, 01:27:06 PM
I believe it's built by Scott Cosentino at Goodfella's in Staten Island - they sell custom brick ovens as well. If I remember correctly, they told me at one point they built that oven but I could be totally wrong.

Someone knows which brand of oven Lucali has got?
Title: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: adistler1 on May 02, 2019, 09:05:46 AM
Someone knows which brand of oven Lucali has got?

He is a stone mason and said he built his own in one of the clips I saw. It has gas assist, likely from either Forno Bravo or Vamparossa.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on May 02, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
This place looks like it would be real expensive and nearly impossible to get in. Nice looking pies but a bit pretentious atmosphere... purely judging from photos and videos.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: rtt121 on May 02, 2019, 03:48:04 PM
Not pretentious
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HansB on May 02, 2019, 04:51:48 PM
Not pretentious

And not that expensive or too hard to get into.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on May 02, 2019, 04:54:17 PM
Actually yes,  it's friendly and terrific
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on May 04, 2019, 08:29:20 AM
Actually yes,  it's friendly and terrific

I hope to visit someday soon.  It's not that far from MA of course, especially by train.  Hopefully I will have a similar oven built soon.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Whisky on May 05, 2019, 06:03:25 PM
Very poor Lucali attempt. However I thought the pizza was pretty good..Will play around with this some more.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pod4477 on May 06, 2019, 12:17:06 PM
Very poor Lucali attempt. However I thought the pizza was pretty good..Will play around with this some more.

That cheese looks awesome though and it's a yummy looking pie!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: DreamingOfPizza on May 16, 2019, 09:56:29 PM
I think that looks pretty good, the bottom has that tortilla quality I've seen of lucali.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Irishboy on May 19, 2019, 12:50:58 PM
 maybe it was mentioned on here but does anyone know the temperature lucali uses
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: adistler1 on August 14, 2019, 11:01:44 PM
Used my Lucali dough recipe to try something different.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Irishboy on August 16, 2019, 09:15:46 AM
Used my Lucali dough recipe to try something different.
Looks great,
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: adistler1 on September 03, 2019, 10:29:58 PM
Really happy with how this one turned out.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: userkevin41 on September 06, 2019, 12:29:07 PM
What do you guys think of this video? Annoying hosts and a fairly useless dough formula aside, I find it interesting hes not even mentioning rolling the dough out in this segment and specifically talks about not interrupting the fermentation while forming the rim of the crust. A big difference from all the other videos where he touts the wine bottle roll technique.

I don't think this is his technique but I think the finished result looks similar in color to his pies. The crumb in the rim, from what I can spy, looks a little more full/webbed. That would make sense given the way it was formed, but who knows when/where/with what oven that pizza was cooked. These segments are always super orchestrated.

https://youtu.be/kw1S_fR3VJg
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: PC105105 on September 29, 2019, 07:32:37 PM
I made these pies without the intent to replicate the lucali look, but they kind of reminded me of them. I remembered seeing this thread and thought Iíd post these pics. Only thing is I didnít roll the dough out, these are hand stretched.


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on September 29, 2019, 11:51:18 PM
Very nice! What was your oven on these?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: PC105105 on September 30, 2019, 09:05:41 AM
Very nice! What was your oven on these?

I have  cuppone tiziano.  I set the bottom dial to 615 and the top to 680ish.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: DenaliPete on November 05, 2019, 05:39:33 PM
Really nice looking pie!

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsobolew on December 20, 2019, 11:11:33 PM
I made these tonight with Lucali in mind. I donít dislike the effect of rolling the dough. It makes a very consistent crust. Unfortunately I didnít get as many crazy bubbles as Lucali. Dough is power flour, 58% hydration, 0.4% IDY, 72hr cold prove. Cooked in my Ooni Pro between 650-750f, average 3min bake time.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Irishboy on December 20, 2019, 11:30:04 PM
I made these tonight with Lucali in mind. I donít dislike the effect of rolling the dough. It makes a very consistent crust. Unfortunately I didnít get as many crazy bubbles as Lucali. Dough is power flour, 58% hydration, 0.4% IDY, 72hr cold prove. Cooked in my Ooni Pro between 650-750f, average 3min bake time.
I like that one a lot
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: tommydgun on February 28, 2020, 09:36:23 PM
New here, but was determined to make an attempt at Lucali. I have to say I'm fairly pleased with the results. First bake didn't come out as good as the second but definitely think I achieved the look.

KABF, 55% hydration, 3% oil, 3% salt, no sugar, .4% ADY, cold ferment overnight,  4h RT ferment, rolled dough, hand stretched with fingertips not knuckles, cooked sauce, 3 cheeses, finished with oil and lots and lots of basil

Ooni pro 700 to 800 degrees, 2ish minute bake

Let me know what you think.  ::)
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: TXCraig1 on February 28, 2020, 09:51:53 PM
Looks really good.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: pizzeraja on March 05, 2020, 12:00:34 PM
My take on the Lucali style with homemade mozzarella, cooked sauce, low hydration dough without sugar or oil. First time i tried rolling the dough with a rolling pin, it was better than i expected!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jon in Albany on March 05, 2020, 06:12:27 PM
Nice job, pizzeraja!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: mux on March 07, 2020, 01:30:58 PM
Really happy with how this one turned out.

I want to try this, looks great. recipe?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: tommydgun on March 09, 2020, 09:37:53 AM
My take on the Lucali style with homemade mozzarella, cooked sauce, low hydration dough without sugar or oil. First time i tried rolling the dough with a rolling pin, it was better than i expected!

Really curious your dough recipe and procedure.  The dough looks great you nailed it!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: mux on March 09, 2020, 03:42:02 PM
I made an attempt at a Lucali style pie after visiting the place. The pizza at Lucali is very good, probably one of the best if not the best non-neapolitan style I've had.

The sauce is delicious and I was able to get something very close.
Sauce recipe: whole can of San Marzano tomatoes. Crush the whole tomatoes in your hand and push them through a sieve to remove the seeds and hard flesh bits. After take a few cloves of garlic, lightly crush them in your hand and put a very small amount of olive oil and warm them up a LIGHT  amount. Add the tomato juice and also add a few sprigs of basil. Simmer on LOW for 10-30 mins at most. Cooking the sauce removes the acidity and creates a more mellow flavor.

For the dough, I can't remember exactly the formula (stupid me for not saving it), but it was close to:
55 % water, 2.75% salt, 2% oil, 0.75% IDY. I fermented at room temp for 5 ish-hours, before balling and letting them ferment for another few hours.  I refrigerated one of the balls for the following day (tasted just as good)

For the cheese I used a three cheese blend, which is what lucali uses. I think this is the secret to his pies: he uses very good cheese, and I don't know which brands of cheeses he uses. Mine aren't the same quality so the taste of the pie isn't as good. I used parm reggiano first, then a low-moisture moz, and then some fresh fior di latte. I need to use buffalo mozzarella next time.

The pies were baked for 3 minutes on ~800F stone.


I desperately want a Ooni Koda 16, in order to make bigger pies.


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on March 09, 2020, 08:10:04 PM
this thread inspired me to try out, so my take on it
300G ball 14"
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on March 09, 2020, 11:39:22 PM
What is 'TF'?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: caymus on March 10, 2020, 06:41:56 AM
What is 'TF'?

Thickness Factor
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on March 10, 2020, 03:00:30 PM
Thanks. I figured out later what that meant, after reading through other posts.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pete-zza on March 10, 2020, 06:47:50 PM
Thanks. I figured out later what that meant, after reading through other posts.
Randy,

You might take a look at this list:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20056.msg196875#msg196875

Peter
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pizza on March 12, 2020, 03:51:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rn2zYP17TI

Has anyone taken a look at this video yet? He goes over his sauce but dosnt give much new information.

Austin
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on March 12, 2020, 11:09:34 PM
second Try with sausage and with sopressata, 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on March 13, 2020, 12:05:00 AM
second Try with sausage and with sopressata,
Nice looking crust, but am I correct in thinking maybe there's a little bit of whole wheat flour in the mix?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on March 13, 2020, 10:27:58 AM
Nice looking crust, but am I correct in thinking maybe there's a little bit of whole wheat flour in the mix?


yes, 7% organic wheat for flavor!!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on March 13, 2020, 02:02:10 PM

yes, 7% organic wheat for flavor!!

I was pretty sure. There's no mistaking that 'shag' effect whole wheat does to the crumb, and the evenness of the aeration, too.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: kaham47 on March 22, 2020, 11:23:09 AM
My first try !

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on March 28, 2020, 04:11:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rn2zYP17TI

Has anyone taken a look at this video yet? He goes over his sauce but dosnt give much new information.

Austin

Interesting that he cooks his sauce. I was not expecting that. And what the heck is a "hot pepper shallot"?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Hanglow on March 28, 2020, 11:22:21 AM
It's missing a comma I think  ;D
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: muj on April 17, 2020, 03:39:29 PM
Hi guys, this is really my first post on the site. Just a couple of things I've noticed about what I've seen and heard about Lucalis pizza. Haven't been lucky enough to try it myself. Just a few questions mixed in there too. Sorry in advance for longer read.

In regards to the warm sauce, the thought of that scares me in terms of have the dough stick to the peel, but I'm curious to try. I feel like a combination of rolling the dough, opening up close to the edges causes the formation of that crust. I think the warm sauce causes the centre of the dough to depress pushing a lot of the air to puff up that cornicone.

Another thing is I've always tended to use higher hydration doughs. I tend to stay around 65% due to only having a conventional oven and pizza stone available, and am worried that a lower hydration always dries out the crust due to my longer bake times. (Have tried lower hydation but not with that TF) I'm tempted to drop to 55% hydration to make the dough easier to work with and roll out really thin, but am worried about my bake time averaging around 8 mins. Would dropping it that low be a bad idea for me?

And in terms of the look of Lucalis pizza, the seperation of the two layers when folded or bitten at the crust reminds me so much of naan (bread) I make at home many times (being from an asian household). And that is definitely lower hydration.

Thanks in advance  ;D

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gene in Acadiana on April 17, 2020, 04:33:03 PM

In regards to the warm sauce, the thought of that scares me in terms of have the dough stick to the peel, but I'm curious to try. I feel like a combination of rolling the dough, opening up close to the edges causes the formation of that crust. I think the warm sauce causes the centre of the dough to depress pushing a lot of the air to puff up that cornicone.


Maybe I'm wrong or I missed something, but I don't think he applies the sauce while it's still warm. The main point is that he pre-cooks it and it's most likely room temperature when it is ladled on.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: muj on April 17, 2020, 06:19:05 PM
Maybe I'm wrong or I missed something, but I don't think he applies the sauce while it's still warm. The main point is that he pre-cooks it and it's most likely room temperature when it is ladled on.

I think he does. He ladles straight from the pot. The YouTube video below at 1:48 shows it.


Yeah it looks really thin, that's why I was surprised to hear him say 5 hours. It might be warm for 5 hours but it seems super thin to have actually been simmering for that long. This is the clip I was referencing, like you say he mills the tomatoes first before cooking.

https://youtu.be/VLP8-ieqbyU
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gene in Acadiana on April 18, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
I think he does. He ladles straight from the pot. The YouTube video below at 1:48 shows it.

Yes, the sauce certainly does seem to be warm/hot when he's ladling it on in that video clip. I'm not sure why he would do that and what difference it would make besides increasing the odds that the dough will stick to the peel much easier and quicker. Maybe it's one of those things where he started doing it in the beginning due to his admitted lack of experience and just stuck with it.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on April 19, 2020, 01:49:32 AM
Hi guys, this is really my first post on the site. Just a couple of things I've noticed about what I've seen and heard about Lucalis pizza. Haven't been lucky enough to try it myself. Just a few questions mixed in there too. Sorry in advance for longer read.

In regards to the warm sauce, the thought of that scares me in terms of have the dough stick to the peel, but I'm curious to try. I feel like a combination of rolling the dough, opening up close to the edges causes the formation of that crust. I think the warm sauce causes the centre of the dough to depress pushing a lot of the air to puff up that cornicone.

Another thing is I've always tended to use higher hydration doughs. I tend to stay around 65% due to only having a conventional oven and pizza stone available, and am worried that a lower hydration always dries out the crust due to my longer bake times. (Have tried lower hydation but not with that TF) I'm tempted to drop to 55% hydration to make the dough easier to work with and roll out really thin, but am worried about my bake time averaging around 8 mins. Would dropping it that low be a bad idea for me?

And in terms of the look of Lucalis pizza, the seperation of the two layers when folded or bitten at the crust reminds me so much of naan (bread) I make at home many times (being from an asian household). And that is definitely lower hydration.

Thanks in advance  ;D

Your idea about the hot sauce causing the air in the center of the dough to migrate outwards is interesting, but I don't quite buy it. The weight of the sauce (which I think would be the only real force at work) would be the same whether it was hot or cold. Plus, the dough has already been stretched anyway. But who knows? You could be onto something.
As far as your idea of dropping the hydration level of your dough, that could produce the desired results if you're seeking a thinner crust, but what temperature do you normally operate at?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: muj on April 20, 2020, 02:04:25 PM
Your idea about the hot sauce causing the air in the center of the dough to migrate outwards is interesting, but I don't quite buy it. The weight of the sauce (which I think would be the only real force at work) would be the same whether it was hot or cold. Plus, the dough has already been stretched anyway. But who knows? You could be onto something.
As far as your idea of dropping the hydration level of your dough, that could produce the desired results if you're seeking a thinner crust, but what temperature do you normally operate at?

Since moving into a apartment rather then being at in a house my oven is a lot smaller. Max temp I can reach is around 260 C (500F). Old oven used to get closer to 600F :(
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: M.g on April 30, 2020, 03:39:25 AM
My clone to the pie,
Never eat the real deal so Can't compare flavors.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: pizzadaheim on May 18, 2020, 05:41:48 AM
Here is my try
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Chi_Guy on May 18, 2020, 11:16:49 AM
Hi guys, this is really my first post on the site. Just a couple of things I've noticed about what I've seen and heard about Lucalis pizza. Haven't been lucky enough to try it myself. Just a few questions mixed in there too. Sorry in advance for longer read.

In regards to the warm sauce, the thought of that scares me in terms of have the dough stick to the peel, but I'm curious to try. I feel like a combination of rolling the dough, opening up close to the edges causes the formation of that crust. I think the warm sauce causes the centre of the dough to depress pushing a lot of the air to puff up that cornicone.

Another thing is I've always tended to use higher hydration doughs. I tend to stay around 65% due to only having a conventional oven and pizza stone available, and am worried that a lower hydration always dries out the crust due to my longer bake times. (Have tried lower hydation but not with that TF) I'm tempted to drop to 55% hydration to make the dough easier to work with and roll out really thin, but am worried about my bake time averaging around 8 mins. Would dropping it that low be a bad idea for me?

And in terms of the look of Lucalis pizza, the seperation of the two layers when folded or bitten at the crust reminds me so much of naan (bread) I make at home many times (being from an asian household). And that is definitely lower hydration.

Thanks in advance  ;D

I think if you add oil to the dough, you donít have to worry so much about the crust drying out.  Iíve dropped the hydration in my NY style pies to 59% but am still able to achieve good tenderness using 2% oil in the dough.  The key is not over baking.  My 13-14Ē pies are done in approximately 5 minutes on the baking steel. 

Itís funny that you mentioned naan because Iím branching off to that and have been researching recipes.  Being Asian myself, I know what a good tandoori naan tastes like.  It seems naan has a hydration level somewhere in the 50s if you just factor in water.  But it can also be fortified with ingredients like yogurt and egg so i suspect the true hydration of naan is probably closer to 66%. 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: TXCraig1 on May 19, 2020, 09:12:06 AM
Here is my try

One of the closest I've seen for sure. That a great looking pizza and great photography.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: ban2ron on May 19, 2020, 11:59:56 PM
this thread inspired me to try out, so my take on it
300G ball 14"

they look so good!!
do you mind sharing your dough recipe? also, how long did you bake and at what temperature? thanks!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on May 24, 2020, 11:22:43 AM
they look so good!!
do you mind sharing your dough recipe? also, how long did you bake and at what temperature? thanks!


Thanks!!
AT flour
62-63% water
2%Oil
1% sugar
1.5% malt
2% salt
.3% ADY
At 550 f on stone gets me 575-580 f
7-8 min bake time. i focus way much on making gourmet topping since i settled on crust i love.
one below i made yesterday .....hawaiian with fresh pineapple

 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: ban2ron on May 24, 2020, 06:13:21 PM

Thanks!!
AT flour
62-63% water
2%Oil
1% sugar
1.5% malt
2% salt
.3% ADY
At 550 f on stone gets me 575-580 f
7-8 min bake time. i focus way much on making gourmet topping since i settled on crust i love.
one below i made yesterday .....hawaiian with fresh pineapple
Thanks for sharing! That Hawaiian pizza looks gooood! Did you squeeze the fresh pineapple dry and drain them before baking? I have always wanted to try making one but afraid itís going to make the pie too watery.

Also in order to achieve that thickness, for a 14 inch pie, how many grams of dough would you shoot for?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on May 26, 2020, 02:15:30 PM
Thanks for sharing! That Hawaiian pizza looks gooood! Did you squeeze the fresh pineapple dry and drain them before baking? I have always wanted to try making one but afraid itís going to make the pie too watery.

Also in order to achieve that thickness, for a 14 inch pie, how many grams of dough would you shoot for?


This one is 345g,   
 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Chopper01 on June 12, 2020, 01:40:33 PM
This was entertaining to watch!

https://youtu.be/0t-TxE64HjA
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: CupnCharRoni on June 12, 2020, 08:49:21 PM
This was entertaining to watch!

https://youtu.be/0t-TxE64HjA

Was he implying that he uses the Del Monte tomato sauce in house? I've never tried it before.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on June 12, 2020, 09:39:18 PM
So while I'm awful at math, 62HR, .5% yeast, rounded off right?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Chi_Guy on June 13, 2020, 06:34:14 AM
This was entertaining to watch!

https://youtu.be/0t-TxE64HjA

Huntís tomato sauce?  Gold Medal flour?  Iím already skeptical about the authenticity of the recipe.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Chi_Guy on June 13, 2020, 06:40:00 AM
So while I'm awful at math, 62HR, .5% yeast, rounded off right?

Thatís what I had too.  Converting the recipe he gave her to grams:

1587.5g of flour
993.5g of water (62.5%)
8.5g of yeast. (0.53%)
26.6g of olive oil. (1.67%)
34.1g of salt. (2.14%)

This seems like a standard NY pizza dough recipe to me.  Heís said that he uses less water in his dough so I wonder if the real hydration is in the 57-59% range.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HansB on June 13, 2020, 07:20:20 AM
I get 60% Hydration? 33.6 X 28.3495 = 952.5/1587 = .60
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Chi_Guy on June 13, 2020, 08:03:23 AM
I get 60% Hydration? 33.6 X 28.3495 = 952.5/1587 = .60

Interesting, it appears that we are working with different conversion factors.  One Google search result indicates 1 fl oz = 29.57g which is what I used while another result says 1 fl oz = 28.35g and that results in a hydration of 60%.  Both still fall withiin the typical hydration range of NY style pizza.  A bit higher than what Lucaliís dough was thought to be.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Chopper01 on June 13, 2020, 02:20:30 PM
Gotta fill in the blanks lol, lots of options for ingredients.  I appreciate that Mark simplified for regular home use.

Herrine was funny lol, she baked the pizza on a upside down baking tray, then places the pizza on to a pizza stone when done  :-D .  Obviously she did that on purpose for people at home with no stone...

I really enjoyed the vid. Thank you Mark & Herrine!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gene in Acadiana on June 13, 2020, 02:47:11 PM
Also interesting is that he clearly can see that she's using AP flour and does not comment about it (unless that was edited out).
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on June 14, 2020, 10:47:47 AM
Thatís what I had too.  Converting the recipe he gave her to grams:

1587.5g of flour
993.5g of water (62.5%)
8.5g of yeast. (0.53%)
26.6g of olive oil. (1.67%)
34.1g of salt. (2.14%)

This seems like a standard NY pizza dough recipe to me.  Heís said that he uses less water in his dough so I wonder if the real hydration is in the 57-59% range.
Standard, except for the yeast . That is a frickiní mountain of yeast, I would say. No need to use anywhere near that much, unless youíre desperate to get the dough  cranked out within a couple of hours.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on June 14, 2020, 10:58:38 PM
That's interesting. He has definitely said in the past that he uses no oil in his dough, but this recipe says otherwise. Maybe he's tweaking it for a home oven, or maybe he's changing it a little bit so competitors can't steal his recipe? Also, he tells her to use a wine bottle to roll out the dough because it's going to be hard (?). I'm thinking he means that the dough is supposed to be refrigerated right up to the minute it's going to be used. That's rather unusual, and  I'd say this is pretty significant for those who are trying to replicate his pies to the finest details.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jkb on June 15, 2020, 01:00:30 AM
Huntís tomato sauce?  Gold Medal flour?  Iím already skeptical about the authenticity of the recipe.

All-Trumps is GM Gold Medal.  I haven't used it recently, but Hunt's was my favorite 30 years ago.  It was the best I could find.  Tomatoes are like wine.  There's good vintages and not so good.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on June 15, 2020, 11:04:14 AM
All-Trumps is GM Gold Medal.  I haven't used it recently, but Hunt's was my favorite 30 years ago.  It was the best I could find.  Tomatoes are like wine.  There's good vintages and not so good.

Where are you getting your information on that first statement? I've certainly never heard that one before. I mean, yeah, All Trumps is labelled as "Gold Medal", but I don't see how that means it's the same thing as the Gold Medal flour sold in the grocery stores. If that were the case, I think a heck of a lot more people in the home pizza craft world would be aware of it. What exactly do you think All Trumps is equivalent to? Gold Medal bread flour? I can't help asking.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott r on June 15, 2020, 11:11:42 AM
Gold medal is just one brand of flour owned by General Mills (they own many brands including pillsbury).  I think its really confusing because its one of their retail brands and the name is on a number of products, but the words "Gold Medal" are also printed on most of their commercial bags of flour. They have what seems like 50 different commercial flours, maybe more considering that most of them are available bromated, non bromated, bleached, not bleached etc.  Im sure because of its strong brand recognition they put it just about anywhere they can.

To say you use gold medal flour is similar to someone asking you what kind of car you drive and responding that you drive General Motors.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 15, 2020, 01:39:05 PM
Interesting, it appears that we are working with different conversion factors.  One Google search result indicates 1 fl oz = 29.57g which is what I used while another result says 1 fl oz = 28.35g and that results in a hydration of 60%.  Both still fall withiin the typical hydration range of NY style pizza.  A bit higher than what Lucaliís dough was thought to be.

1 fl oz water (at 4C) = 29.57g. 1 oz mass of anything weighs 28.35g
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jkb on June 15, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
1 oz mass of anything weighs 28.35g


On Earth...
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: ARenko on June 15, 2020, 07:17:50 PM

On Earth...
Mass does not change with different gravity system.  Nor does the conversion factor.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jkb on June 15, 2020, 08:32:25 PM
Mass does not change with different gravity system.  Nor does the conversion factor.

He said "weighs".
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 15, 2020, 09:27:04 PM
And I thought I was a pedant  :-D
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: quietdesperation on June 15, 2020, 10:01:37 PM

On Earth...

and at rest.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: ARenko on June 16, 2020, 12:00:15 AM
He said "weighs".
Oops, I read it as mass is, not weighs.     
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: dstagl on June 20, 2020, 03:35:01 PM
I think you're making this harder than it needs to be to convert the recipe from the video.
Here's the recipe posted in the video description:
33.6 ounces of water
3 1/2 pounds of flour
0.3 ounces of yeast
2 Tablespoons extra virgin olive oil
2 Tablespoons of salt
Put room temperature water in a large mixing bowl.
Remove a cup of water and dissolve the salt in it.
Add the yeast in the mixing bowl and dissolve. Then add your olive oil and stir.
Add 25% of your flour to the water and mix until smooth.
Add the salt water and mix for approximately 15 seconds, add the remaining flour. Mix/knead for approximately 10 minutes.
When finished kneading, cover dough with saran wrap and let rest for 45 minutes.
Cut the dough into eight, 10-ounce balls.
Baste with EVOO, then cover with saran wrap and let rise in the refrigerator for six hours to overnight.

TOMATO SAUCE:
Yellow onion, finely chopped
Garlic, minced
Dry oregano
Canned tomato sauce 
Salt
Pepper
Sugar
Basil


-----
3.5 lbs = 56 ounces. (16oz = 1 lb.)
33.6 / 56 = 60% hydration
.3 / 56 = .5 % yeast
1 / 56 = 1.7% (1 tablespoon = .5 ounce)

So that gives us:
60% Hydration
.5 % yeast
1.7% salt
1.7% EVOO

My guess is the oil is there for the home oven.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: john95 on July 02, 2020, 05:59:59 PM
I love Lucali and it has inspired me years ago to create a quality pizza with good fresh ingredients. The sauce on my pizza  is made from scratch peeled the tomatoís myself. The owner Mark his success story was an inspiration to me as he kinda just went for it with 5,000 dollars to his name (If I remember correctly the video I watched) and how he converted the old candy store to one of the most popular pizza places in NYC. So after being a fan of his for so long I made the haul to Brooklyn from Philadelphia to try it. It was light and crispy had 5 slices quickly and didnít feel bloated or like crap and could really taste the different cheeses and basil. In my opinion the sauce was simple and wasnít messed with to much. I feel like people tend to always have ďa secret ingredientĒ. But in Markís words you donít want the 3 layers of a pizza to over power each other. So after tasting the pizza it made me realize hey I could really do this pizza thing. As Iím trying to secure a location and paperwork (which is a PROCESS in its own) Iím nervous, scared, excited, confident in my pizza and food, but this is my first business Iím opening and Weíll see where it goes. This is my ďminiĒ home oven sized lucali inspired pizza I will be selling.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on July 03, 2020, 06:47:17 PM
Pizza looks  :drool:
Once you settled in your business you want to create your pizza which suits you in every which way and that will last thru Thick and thin..
Goodluck 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: naval2006 on July 22, 2020, 05:00:50 PM
This thread is so interesting.  Iíve seen this guy on several YouTube videos and his pizza looks impressive.  I was talking to a baker friend today and we discussed some of the pizza in the pictures. I asked him how key the oven was in that final product. He being a baker all his life answered that a big part of what pizza or bread looks like is to do with the oven you cook it in. And in the case of Lucalis pizza he said if you donít get that oven temp you canít get that brown spotty finish.

I almost come to agree with the point of view that the guy must have tried lots of things out and he stuck to what worked for him. Itís as if heís really good at what he does but he doesnít take it with any solemnity.

By the way in the video he talks about the sauce thereís a pizzaman in the background stretching a pie and he never uses a bottle.  This Iacono guy also has a talent for not revealing his formula by answering YES politely to whatever assertion by interviewers.

I guess this is the type of pizza Iíd like to get to with the obvious caveats.

I have the bottle of wine ready for Friday night pizza,

Alex
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: niaczyrrej on August 01, 2020, 04:18:35 PM
Recipe he gave Food Insider. The full recipe is cut off, but he says a 6 hour to overnight rest in the fridge. He also talks about the sauce and cheese.

https://youtu.be/0t-TxE64HjA?t=132

Sorry. It looks like this was already posted.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsobolew on August 01, 2020, 11:13:38 PM
Del Monte tomatoes? No way he uses those. Her sauce looks like ketchup. His dough also looks more hydrated with more gluten. I thought it was weird that he told her to go all the way over the edges while rolling then it shows him NOT do that with his dough. Why does she use a pizza stone to cut the pizza and not to bake it on? I think he's a good sport at helping her get close to his style and methods but he's not gonna give away all of his secrets.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott r on August 02, 2020, 08:22:36 AM
With his following I cant even imagine how many people have tried to steal his style for their own shop!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: viper333 on August 14, 2020, 09:54:38 AM
after experimenting and playing around for about 1 year, after trying Lucali's pizza,  this is my take on his pie
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: HansB on August 14, 2020, 10:34:23 AM
after experimenting and playing around for about 1 year, after trying Lucali's pizza,  this is my take on his pie

Looks good! 😋
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsobolew on August 15, 2020, 03:11:18 PM
after experimenting and playing around for about 1 year, after trying Lucali's pizza,  this is my take on his pie

Yes that looks very much in the realm. You just need copious amounts of basil all over it now. Would you be willing to share your recipe?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: viper333 on August 16, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Yes that looks very much in the realm. You just need copious amounts of basil all over it now. Would you be willing to share your recipe?

Yes of course I'll posted it with a few more pictures in week or so. I found the dough to be quite hard to make and it was basically year and a half of trials and errors with every possible choice you can think off ..... Unlike the Neapolitan style where I had no trouble making the dough with medium or high hydration.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: LPE427 on August 24, 2020, 06:27:50 AM
I did a roman style pizza the other day, I believe the dough is almost Identical to a new york style pizza.

and the finish product for the pizza romana tonda has always that look that Lucali been doing.

here's my pizza:
1,8 KG 00 flour
1 liters water
20 g olive oil
35 g salt
2 g instant dry yeast

24H bulk at 4c
3-4H ball at RT
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: viper333 on September 01, 2020, 06:01:49 AM
Yes that looks very much in the realm. You just need copious amounts of basil all over it now. Would you be willing to share your recipe?

sorry, been busy.
 1/3 semolina
 2/3 00
 55 percent water
 48h cold fermentation
 2 g. yeast

some close up pics
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: viper333 on September 01, 2020, 06:03:27 AM
some more
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Raym50 on September 02, 2020, 07:16:40 PM
Hereís my try, more Difara style than lucali, but it was in my wfo. 55% hydration. No oil.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: ToniPizza on September 03, 2020, 01:43:46 PM
I don't think there is anything complicated in that pizza. High heat, dough bashed with roller and crust left wider then normal.

Never tasted the pizza. Im sure its amazing but nothing ground breaking when it comes to making it look that way.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: DatPizzaPieGuy on September 15, 2020, 12:35:55 AM
I don't think there is anything complicated in that pizza. High heat, dough bashed with roller and crust left wider then normal.

Never tasted the pizza. Im sure its amazing but nothing ground breaking when it comes to making it look that way.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: PizzaManic on September 18, 2020, 05:30:32 AM
I did a roman style pizza the other day, I believe the dough is almost Identical to a new york style pizza.

and the finish product for the pizza romana tonda has always that look that Lucali been doing.

here's my pizza:
1,8 KG 00 flour
1 liters water
20 g olive oil
35 g salt
2 g instant dry yeast

24H bulk at 4c
3-4H ball at RT

I Really like that last picture - the crust looks fantastic. If you don't mind, what oven did you bake that in and for how long?

Thanks
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on September 18, 2020, 07:05:54 PM
Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. Here's my first attempt at a Lucali pizza. What do you think?

Regards,

NB
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: LPE427 on September 19, 2020, 02:48:43 AM
I Really like that last picture - the crust looks fantastic. If you don't mind, what oven did you bake that in and for how long?

Thanks

Cooked on an electric oven, effeuno oven.
if I remember correctly the temperature was something around 340c.
and the time was in between 2:30/3:00 minutes.

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jhgaard on September 20, 2020, 08:07:49 AM
Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. Here's my first attempt at a Lucali pizza. What do you think?

Regards,

NB

I created an account just to say this; that looks awesome. Definitely has that authentic look, please give as much info as you can!

Cheers
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jhgaard on September 27, 2020, 10:37:48 AM
Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. Here's my first attempt at a Lucali pizza. What do you think?

Regards,

NB

Praying you visit the forum again soon. You can't drop this bomb and then vanish!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on September 27, 2020, 11:03:08 AM
Praying you visit the forum again soon. You can't drop this bomb and then vanish!

Thanks for the feedback. Definitely means a lot!

Here's my first dough attempt:

- 100% Organic Unbleached Hard Flour (I can't get King Arthur in Canada, so I went with a good local miller).
- 56% water.
- 2.5% salt.
- 0.15% ADY (I mistakenly used a 1:1 conversion to IDY - still worked fine)

- Lightly incorporate everything then cover and rest for 30 mins. to an hour.
- Return and begin to slap and fold, or knead, until smooth.
- Bulk ferment at 20-22 deg. C for 3 hours.
- Divide and then cold ferment in the fridge for 24 hours. You won't see much activity during this time
- Remove from the fridge and rest at 20-22 deg. C for 4-6 hours. You'll see your dough balls begin to relax and increase a bit in size.

I'm still tinkering with my Ooni Koda 16's temperature dial... hope to have more pictures as I refine this recipe.

Regards,

NB
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: machismo on October 13, 2020, 12:28:20 AM
Thanks for the feedback. Definitely means a lot!

Here's my first dough attempt:

- 100% Organic Unbleached Hard Flour (I can't get King Arthur in Canada, so I went with a good local miller).
- 56% water.
- 2.5% salt.
- 0.15% ADY (I mistakenly used a 1:1 conversion to IDY - still worked fine)

- Lightly incorporate everything then cover and rest for 30 mins. to an hour.
- Return and begin to slap and fold, or knead, until smooth.
- Bulk ferment at 20-22 deg. C for 3 hours.
- Divide and then cold ferment in the fridge for 24 hours. You won't see much activity during this time
- Remove from the fridge and rest at 20-22 deg. C for 4-6 hours. You'll see your dough balls begin to relax and increase a bit in size.

I'm still tinkering with my Ooni Koda 16's temperature dial... hope to have more pictures as I refine this recipe.

Regards,

NB

what was the cook time and temp in your koda 16 ? pie looks excellent btw.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on October 13, 2020, 04:17:25 PM
what was the cook time and temp in your koda 16 ? pie looks excellent btw.

Thank you very much for the feedback - it definitely means a lot! I should also note that that was my first ever pizza cooked in the Koda.

It's really hard to say due to the Ooni Koda's hot spots as well as the size of pizza I'm making. I always preheat the oven at maximum temperature for around 30-45 minutes so the centre of the stone hits around 860 deg. F and the rear left corner hits around 950 deg. F. Before I put the pizza in, I reduce the temperature dial to its near lowest setting and am able to achieve a 2.5-3 minute bake.

The biggest drawback I'm finding is that at 16" diameter I'm pushing the oven to the absolute limit, which means I can't avoid the hottest corner and direct flame. With a 2.5-3 minute bake time I get a very well developed cracker-like crust, but the bottom just isn't there yet. I'm really hoping I can find the sweetspot with this oven, or else I'll have to invest in something else....

Sorry this wasn't much help.

Regards,

NB

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on October 13, 2020, 04:25:40 PM
Hello all,

Here's another one of my pies cooked over the Thanksgiving long weekend. Always adjusting the dough recipe, ingredient suppliers and the Koda 16 temperature dial. Still searching for the perfect marg...

NB
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on October 13, 2020, 06:23:05 PM
Thank you very much for the feedback - it definitely means a lot! I should also note that that was my first ever pizza cooked in the Koda.

It's really hard to say due to the Ooni Koda's hot spots as well as the size of pizza I'm making. I always preheat the oven at maximum temperature for around 30-45 minutes so the centre of the stone hits around 860 deg. F and the rear left corner hits around 950 deg. F. Before I put the pizza in, I reduce the temperature dial to its near lowest setting and am able to achieve a 2.5-3 minute bake.

The biggest drawback I'm finding is that at 16" diameter I'm pushing the oven to the absolute limit, which means I can't avoid the hottest corner and direct flame. With a 2.5-3 minute bake time I get a very well developed cracker-like crust, but the bottom just isn't there yet. I'm really hoping I can find the sweetspot with this oven, or else I'll have to invest in something else....

Sorry this wasn't much help.

Regards,

NB
I have an Ooni Pro, and I have pretty much the same problem. The company claims that it can cook a 16" pizza (which is the whole reason I bought it, and not one of the smaller, less expensive models), but I think they frankly should be sued for false advertisement. I can't cook anything bigger than a 12" in it without burning the crap out of the outer edge, undoubtedly because the fuel chamber is just too close to the baking surface. And the baking stones also don't ever give me a good crisp, no matter how long I let it preheat. I started using my baking steel in it a couple of months ago, and that has helped a lot. But overall, I'm kind of wishing that I had just spent less money on a smaller model, or just got one from a different company.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: machismo on October 13, 2020, 10:56:41 PM
Hello all,

Here's another one of my pies cooked over the Thanksgiving long weekend. Always adjusting the dough recipe, ingredient suppliers and the Koda 16 temperature dial. Still searching for the perfect marg...

NB

I don't have koda 16, but love watching people cook in it. Have you tried the low temp hack by turning the koda dial all the way back to as if you are turning it off. Here is a youtube link, hope that helps. keep posting pics, they look great, specially the top edges look closest to Lucali from what I have seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=024m_mahojo
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on October 13, 2020, 11:51:11 PM
I don't have koda 16, but love watching people cook in it. Have you tried the low temp hack by turning the koda dial all the way back to as if you are turning it off. Here is a youtube link, hope that helps. keep posting pics, they look great, specially the top edges look closest to Lucali from what I have seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=024m_mahojo

Thanks a lot for the link! I'll definitely give it a try over the weekend and post photos of the results - weather permitted of course.

I probably have to sacrifice matching the Lucali cook time and just focus on optimizing the side and top heat. Looking back on the few times I ate at Lucali, as well as all the video references, there really doesn't seem to be much top heat provided by his oven. The cheeses are just beyond their optimal melting point giving a very creamy texture with almost no blistering - definitely not soupy. It's quite annoying that the lowest temperature setting on the Koda still blisters everything, as shown on my photos... This definitely needs more work.

Regards,

NB



Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Komarzer on October 22, 2020, 05:33:28 PM
Your pie from the picture above looks very good! I have a Koda 16 too, but I just began my journey. I'm gonna follow your experiments, I might be interested in trying NY pies after Neapolitan.

The low flame trick might me useful in your case I think, you should give it a try.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on October 26, 2020, 03:30:33 PM
my take
white meat sauce pizza
sausage pepperoni pizza
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Justa on November 13, 2020, 09:42:22 AM
Hi all - been following this thread for a while. Great info here. Here's my attempt:

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on November 16, 2020, 06:51:31 PM
Well, this time isnít a pizza but I tried to do a Lucali calzone. 

Does this look anything like Markís calzone?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: NewtoQ on November 28, 2020, 08:56:38 PM
Anyone try the recipe he gave Kelly and Ryan?Comes out to about the following:

Water - 60%
Yeast - .54%
EVOO - 1.26%
Sea Salt - 1.46%

Thanks all and great looking pies!!!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: piesofsatan on November 29, 2020, 05:58:14 PM
Well, this time isnít a pizza but I tried to do a Lucali calzone. 

Does this look anything like Markís calzone?

Really does!! I need to make a calzone soon, damn.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: corkd on November 30, 2020, 02:35:45 PM
Hello all,

Here's another one of my pies cooked over the Thanksgiving long weekend. Always adjusting the dough recipe, ingredient suppliers and the Koda 16 temperature dial. Still searching for the perfect marg...

NB

Looks great! Looks like I spy Radikon!!  :drool:
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on December 11, 2020, 11:49:12 PM
Some birthday pizzas. Paired with some Versante Nord and some Lťzer *not pictured*
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Glutenboy on December 12, 2020, 11:15:22 PM
I don't have koda 16, but love watching people cook in it. Have you tried the low temp hack by turning the koda dial all the way back to as if you are turning it off. Here is a youtube link, hope that helps. keep posting pics, they look great, specially the top edges look closest to Lucali from what I have seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=024m_mahojo

I happened to see an interesting Koda 16 hack on facebook.   A thin piece of steel, I would assume 31-32 inches long by 2 inches wide bent in the middle at a right angle to serve as a full-length flame guard.  It stands up by itself, and the poster said this solved his hot-spot, sides-cook-before-the-bottom's-done problem.  It sounds like a cool accessory to keep on hand if you have a Koda 16.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott r on December 13, 2020, 10:08:05 AM
Anyone try the recipe he gave Kelly and Ryan?Comes out to about the following:

Water - 60%
Yeast - .54%
EVOO - 1.26%
Sea Salt - 1.46%

I had Lucali on Sunday and it was fantastic.   I definitely think its very possible that this is his actual dough recipe.  It seemed like a very simple direct dough made with all trumps and no biga/poolish/wild yeast.  It wasnt overly soft (not lots of oil) and the crust did not have a lot of salt in it. I detected no sugar.  The 60 percentage hydration seems about right, it could have even been slightly lower like 58, but 60 is probable.  If you want to copy this crust I think this is the recipe to use.

What I noticed most about the pizza is that the crust is not a big deal, but the sauce and cheese is really fantastic, and special in the NY scene. It was my favorite cheese after trying 4 pizzerias that day and many more a week earlier.  He does not hide behind salt to get his flavor, and overall the pizza was less salty than just about all others I tried.  The cheese was rich and milky and the sauce was not overly cooked (I would say barely) and had a fresh full flavor.   I loved this pizza.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: vincentoc13 on December 13, 2020, 03:08:08 PM
Thanks a lot for the link! I'll definitely give it a try over the weekend and post photos of the results - weather permitted of course.

I probably have to sacrifice matching the Lucali cook time and just focus on optimizing the side and top heat. Looking back on the few times I ate at Lucali, as well as all the video references, there really doesn't seem to be much top heat provided by his oven. The cheeses are just beyond their optimal melting point giving a very creamy texture with almost no blistering - definitely not soupy. It's quite annoying that the lowest temperature setting on the Koda still blisters everything, as shown on my photos... This definitely needs more work.

Regards,

NB
Here's a few pies NY pies I did on the Ooni 16, not Lucali, but just wanted to give example, thanks.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: ghost on December 16, 2020, 02:40:25 AM
He shared a recipe with a vlogger... here's a youtube link to the time where his text message including recipe is on the screen:

https://youtu.be/0t-TxE64HjA?t=131

Seems to be right on with 60% hydration, 0.5% yeast, 1.67% evoo, and 2Tbsp salt for 1587.57g flour.  (Not sure what kind of salt he's using, so I didn't convert).  My guess would be kosher or sea salt.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsaras on December 16, 2020, 09:31:38 AM
After all that, itís just an undersalted Lehmann dough. 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on December 16, 2020, 11:39:16 AM
He shared a recipe with a vlogger... here's a youtube link to the time where his text message including recipe is on the screen:

https://youtu.be/0t-TxE64HjA?t=131

Seems to be right on with 60% hydration, 0.5% yeast, 1.67% evoo, and 2Tbsp salt for 1587.57g flour.  (Not sure what kind of salt he's using, so I didn't convert).  My guess would be kosher or sea salt.

I only use Kosher salt in my dough and I am not basing it on any scientific reason.  I guess years ago I was inspired by Alton Brown's episode on making pizza and he used Kosher salt.  My dough recipe is as follows but sometimes it varies.  Sometimes the hydration I go up to 59% or the yeast changes a bit.  Or if I do a calzone it may very a little but basically this is the ballpark.

Flour (100%):    400.17 g  |  14.12 oz | 0.88 lbs
Water (59%):    236.1 g  |  8.33 oz | 0.52 lbs
IDY (.30%):    1.2 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.4 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Salt (1.80%):    7.2 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Oil (1.15%):    4.6 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Total (162.25%):   649.28 g | 22.9 oz | 1.43 lbs | TF = 0.09
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jadamczyk22 on December 28, 2020, 01:27:28 AM
Was he implying that he uses the Del Monte tomato sauce in house? I've never tried it before.

hahaha the home-oven asian girl seems to make a better result with his guidance than most of the previous attempts on here before this video was posted
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jkb on December 28, 2020, 05:20:18 AM
hahaha the home-oven asian girl seems to make a better result with his guidance than most of the previous attempts on here before this video was posted


I think a 3 would be generous.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hammettjr on December 28, 2020, 09:57:06 AM

I think a 3 would be generous.

You mean for the pizza, right? ;)

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on January 05, 2021, 07:55:36 PM
So, here's my latest Lucali-style pie. Worked with some of the key characteristics of the Lucali-style dough, ie. very low hydration and no oil.

For this iteration, I ended up reducing the salt content and switching out ADY with my active sourdough culture. Note that I started making this dough Thursday of last week - I felt so bad rolling all that fermented goodness out of the dough. Definitely not identical to Lucali's, Mark is undoubtedly using commercial yeast, but I still found it familiar and overall excellent. No sourness or lactic acidic flavour - very subtle complexities.

I can't stress enough how thankful I am of this community. I owe so much to the members of the community who laid the groundwork before I got here.

Regards,

NB
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on January 05, 2021, 10:35:58 PM
I only use Kosher salt in my dough and I am not basing it on any scientific reason.  I guess years ago I was inspired by Alton Brown's episode on making pizza and he used Kosher salt.  My dough recipe is as follows but sometimes it varies.  Sometimes the hydration I go up to 59% or the yeast changes a bit.  Or if I do a calzone it may very a little but basically this is the ballpark.

Flour (100%):    400.17 g  |  14.12 oz | 0.88 lbs
Water (59%):    236.1 g  |  8.33 oz | 0.52 lbs
IDY (.30%):    1.2 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.4 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Salt (1.80%):    7.2 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Oil (1.15%):    4.6 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Total (162.25%):   649.28 g | 22.9 oz | 1.43 lbs | TF = 0.09
I'm sure that will recipe will yield a nice dough, but Mark has stated very clearly in the past that he uses no sugar or oil in his dough. I think he just gave her a recipe that he said would make a dough, not really his dough. But I've probably said the same thing in the past, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on January 06, 2021, 02:58:44 AM
Nathan...that looks really, really close !
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: scott r on January 06, 2021, 03:46:27 AM
I detected zero sugar.   No oil makes sense, as it does take away crisp at bake times that are being used.  It was a little on the chewy side too.   But, could have had 2 percent or less and it wouldnt have been majorly different.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Frank Cozzo on January 06, 2021, 04:00:37 AM
That looks fantastic Nathan, could you please share your recipe?

Don't worry about rolling out the goodness from the starter, you got a great result
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on January 06, 2021, 09:40:46 PM
Baker's Percents?

What temp/time did you bake at?

So, here's my latest Lucali-style pie. Worked with some of the key characteristics of the Lucali-style dough, ie. very low hydration and no oil.

For this iteration, I ended up reducing the salt content and switching out ADY with my active sourdough culture. Note that I started making this dough Thursday of last week - I felt so bad rolling all that fermented goodness out of the dough. Definitely not identical to Lucali's, Mark is undoubtedly using commercial yeast, but I still found it familiar and overall excellent. No sourness or lactic acidic flavour - very subtle complexities.

I can't stress enough how thankful I am of this community. I owe so much to the members of the community who laid the groundwork before I got here.

Regards,

NB
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: igorpav89 on January 17, 2021, 07:38:42 AM
Anybody still wondering what he does with his sauce, you can see it in one of the videos posted on youtube, he uses the mash potato press to do the tomatoes :)

Video at:
https://youtu.be/GajbZY0l7oY

You can see the potatoe press which he uses for a tomatoe sauce at 5:00 and around 5:40 in the video...


Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Nathan Bateman on January 17, 2021, 12:10:21 PM
Anybody still wondering what he does with his sauce, you can see it in one of the videos posted on youtube, he uses the mash potato press to do the tomatoes :)

Video at:
https://youtu.be/GajbZY0l7oY

You can see the potatoe press which he uses for a tomatoe sauce at 5:00 and around 5:40 in the video...

The sauce is pretty easy to reverse engineer. Whole peeled Jersey plum tomatoes gently infused with basil and garlic. The sauce is cooked on low and left loose.

Regards,

NB
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: igorpav89 on January 17, 2021, 12:38:21 PM
So, here's my latest Lucali-style pie. Worked with some of the key characteristics of the Lucali-style dough, ie. very low hydration and no oil.

For this iteration, I ended up reducing the salt content and switching out ADY with my active sourdough culture. Note that I started making this dough Thursday of last week - I felt so bad rolling all that fermented goodness out of the dough. Definitely not identical to Lucali's, Mark is undoubtedly using commercial yeast, but I still found it familiar and overall excellent. No sourness or lactic acidic flavour - very subtle complexities.

I can't stress enough how thankful I am of this community. I owe so much to the members of the community who laid the groundwork before I got here.

Regards,

NB

Care to share the formula, the pie looks amazing, one of the best ones i've seen here.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Petran23 on January 27, 2021, 06:24:37 PM
Hey guys.. 2 questions here.. In lucali style pizza do you form the dough balls before or after the fermentation process?
And the second question, Nathan it seems you came really close in that last effort.. Could you please share your recipe?
Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jadamczyk22 on January 28, 2021, 11:11:03 PM
Anybody still wondering what he does with his sauce, you can see it in one of the videos posted on youtube, he uses the mash potato press to do the tomatoes :)

Video at:
https://youtu.be/GajbZY0l7oY

You can see the potatoe press which he uses for a tomatoe sauce at 5:00 and around 5:40 in the video...

I think you posted the wrong video
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Flounder on February 04, 2021, 03:54:55 PM
Is it this video?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSHh0MmJM1U  At 5:00 there is a strainer in the scene.  I've been to Lucali a bunch of times. I do love his pie and the sauce.  It's almost like a tomato soup.  With regards to the color - and this might be a long shot - but adding butter will give it a really light color and a silky texture.  Marcella Hazan has a sauce that uses butter and it's delicious.  I've never tried it on a pizza,though.  I would think if you strained whole tomatoes and added the water from the can and cooked them with garlic, basil, etc and added butter it would have that consistency and color.  I question the 5 hour cook too, though.  You'd have to a have a match under the pot for 5 hours not to turn it into a gloppy mess. 

I grew up a Sunday Gravy kid (and still am) my family is from that area of Brooklyn (we only buy our pork from "the pork store" featured in this video.  One of the running jokes in our family was that one of my aunts sauce was really runny and thin.  I'll have to call her up and get some tips!  :)
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Petran23 on April 27, 2021, 04:05:33 PM
Hello guys.. I've been experimenting lately on finding the right type of flour for the stretching of the dough.. I've already tried semolina, which is not my favorite because it alters the result, I tried the same flour I use in the dough, which is a high protein high gluten flour I found here in my country.. Neither my second option is working as I hoped.. I use the lowest amount I can but I still have some burnt flour at the bottom of the pizza.. Do you guys have another suggestion I should try?

Thanks in advance for any replies!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsaras on April 27, 2021, 08:47:41 PM
Hello guys.. I've been experimenting lately on finding the right type of flour for the stretching of the dough.. I've already tried semolina, which is not my favorite because it alters the result, I tried the same flour I use in the dough, which is a high protein high gluten flour I found here in my country.. Neither my second option is working as I hoped.. I use the lowest amount I can but I still have some burnt flour at the bottom of the pizza.. Do you guys have another suggestion I should try?

Thanks in advance for any replies!
Rice flour is great for stretching if you can find it
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: NewtoQ on April 27, 2021, 09:07:56 PM
Rice flour is great for stretching if you can find it
I use rice as my bench flour and semolina on my peel. Works great for me
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: ARenko on April 28, 2021, 07:17:19 AM
Hello guys.. I've been experimenting lately on finding the right type of flour for the stretching of the dough.. I've already tried semolina, which is not my favorite because it alters the result, I tried the same flour I use in the dough, which is a high protein high gluten flour I found here in my country.. Neither my second option is working as I hoped.. I use the lowest amount I can but I still have some burnt flour at the bottom of the pizza.. Do you guys have another suggestion I should try?

Thanks in advance for any replies!
I use semola di rimacinata.  You can try rice flour as well.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on May 02, 2021, 01:14:27 PM
FWIW, the guys at Lucali only roll out pies in regular ol' flour.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: fugo on May 05, 2021, 03:49:59 PM
Gave it a go last night. Rolled out 57% AT dough with wine bottle to 14", then stretched to about 16"; 20 minute cooked sauce using whole tomatoes (Cento), fresh basil, S+P per hotsawce in another Lucali thread. Baked on smoking hot Blackstone for 2 1/2 minutes - a little more bottom char than I like, but still good. Should have pulled at 2:10. Still foldable without cracking. Didn't go hog wild with the basil. Really nice, will do this again.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Daniel_2020 on May 11, 2021, 01:09:21 PM
Regarding Lucali pizza.
I found this video online, but I am not sure how real the dough recipe shown in the video is.
Here is the video link  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t-TxE64HjA       <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Please let me know what you think.
I would love to make a pizza like lucali's.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Daniel_2020 on May 11, 2021, 01:16:56 PM
They use just plain all purpose flour at Lucali's?
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: pvura on May 11, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
They use just plain all purpose flour at Lucali's?

No; All Trumps BB but he didn't specify "flour" as he probably doesn't want to give away the genuine recipe to the viewers. Plus, this was at the beginning of lockdown, so she likely had no way to leave the house and buy All Trumps.

He also mentioned that the dough is always made by feel and isn't measured....
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Daniel_2020 on May 11, 2021, 02:04:03 PM
what is all trumps BB flour?

I live in Toronto Canada.



Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pete-zza on May 11, 2021, 02:13:09 PM
what is all trumps BB flour?

I live in Toronto Canada.
Daniel,

For future reference, see https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20056.msg196875#msg196875

As I understand it, bromated flours are not permitted in Canada.

Peter
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Daniel_2020 on May 11, 2021, 10:15:56 PM
Peter,
Do you by chance know any really good flours available in Canada, to make a NY pizza?

Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Pete-zza on May 12, 2021, 10:10:21 AM
Peter,
Do you by chance know any really good flours available in Canada, to make a NY pizza?

Thank you for your help.
Daniel,

If you look at the Canadian sources of flour in the thread at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.msg401012#msg401012, you will see that the most prominent sources are Five Roses and Robin Hood. Canadian flours in general tend to have higher protein contents than their U.S. counterparts and should work well for the NY style but those that are in the bread flour range or higher are more typical for the NY style.

Peter
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: RHawthorne on May 12, 2021, 11:08:27 PM
Peter,
Do you by chance know any really good flours available in Canada, to make a NY pizza?

Thank you for your help.
I would imagine you should be able to get your hands on some Manitoba flour from some source. Sorry I can't name a brand right off hand.  That tends to be high in protein, although it might be more suitable for use in Neapolitan style pizza, or at least that's what it seems to be used mostly for as far as I know. It might take some blending with other flours to get the body just right for NY style, but I think it's worth trying out on it's own, too, just to see what results you might get.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: NYSS on May 12, 2021, 11:19:59 PM
This was just posted by someone I subscribe to on YouTube.

Kitchen & Craft

https://youtu.be/201HMMMetDE
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gene in Acadiana on May 13, 2021, 01:44:21 PM
This was just posted by someone I subscribe to on YouTube.

Kitchen & Craft


Seems like he used an awful lot of diastatic malt powder, even if he was using a standard kitchen oven. It should be totally unnecessary for a WFO. I doubt it's in Lucali's.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: billg on May 13, 2021, 02:48:19 PM
His crust looks a little too flaky or cracker like to be like Lucali's
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jon in Albany on June 03, 2021, 02:17:06 PM
Looks like there will be a Lucali slice to shoot for

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ny.eater.com/platform/amp/2021/6/1/22463000/baby-lucs-lucali-pizza-shop-opening-carroll-gardens
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: mux on June 09, 2021, 01:45:14 PM
Yeah that crust looks very off
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: mux on June 09, 2021, 01:47:46 PM
What's the best guess for the secret cheese in his calzone?
https://youtu.be/2rn2zYP17TI?t=246

He said its:
1. Low moisture mozz
2. Buffalo 
3. Ricotta
4. Reggiano
5. secret (perhaps pecorino for salt? ) 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: hotsawce on June 10, 2021, 02:29:50 AM
When he said ďinternet researchĒ he really should have just linked this threat because Iím relatively certain he just lifted all the information I mentioned here and didnít cite me

This was just posted by someone I subscribe to on YouTube.

Kitchen & Craft

https://youtu.be/201HMMMetDE
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: billg on June 10, 2021, 04:18:30 PM
When he said ďinternet researchĒ he really should have just linked this threat because Iím relatively certain he just lifted all the information I mentioned here and didnít cite me

 ^^^
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jimbojuan on June 17, 2021, 07:19:14 PM
From this recent interview, seems like Mark does use oil in his dough mix. At 25:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHSmbXf9ybk&t=25m23s
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gene in Acadiana on June 17, 2021, 07:53:55 PM
After seeing countless interviews with him, I've come to the conclusion that it's pretty pointless trying to learn anything valuable from Mark himself about how he makes his pizzas. It's obvious he doesn't want to give up any specific details and can you blame him? In every interview I've seen he always plays coy and acts like he just throws it all together almost haphazardly and voila - out comes this magnificent pizza that people will happily wait in line for hours to eat.

I think he's much more serious and exacting then he lets on and that he put much more time and work into developing his dough than he's willing to admit. 

 
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: pvura on June 17, 2021, 11:36:40 PM
After seeing countless interviews with him, I've come to the conclusion that it's pretty pointless trying to learn anything valuable from Mark himself about how he makes his pizzas. It's obvious he doesn't want to give up any specific details and can you blame him? In every interview I've seen he always plays coy and acts like he just throws it all together almost haphazardly and voila - out comes this magnificent pizza that people will happily wait in line for hours to eat.

I think he's much more serious and exacting then he lets on and that he put much more time and work into developing his dough than he's willing to admit. 

 

I agree that he is not willing to give up many details about his process but idk that we can say that he puts work and time into EXACTING his recipes. Ive heard in several videos that he doesnít ever measure his ingredients and does it all by look and feel. I still am unsure why many on this thread have gone into so much detail and invested plenty of time into cloning something that is never consistent.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: billg on June 18, 2021, 01:42:02 AM
I think he's pretty consistent.  He comes across as being very care free and non scientific to his approach but at the end of the day I bet he follows the same recipe day in and day out because he is quite happy with the results.  I've eaten there many times and never had a bad pie.  I also half believe any video or content about recipes from anyone on the internet.  People want to clone it because they like it.  He's a high profile "celebrity" pizza guy with a very successful business.  He didn't get that way by being inconsistent!!!!!
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Gene in Acadiana on June 18, 2021, 02:56:24 PM
I think he's pretty consistent.  He comes across as being very care free and non scientific to his approach but at the end of the day I bet he follows the same recipe day in and day out because he is quite happy with the results.  I've eaten there many times and never had a bad pie.  I also half believe any video or content about recipes from anyone on the internet.  People want to clone it because they like it.  He's a high profile "celebrity" pizza guy with a very successful business.  He didn't get that way by being inconsistent!!!!!

Yes exactly. I would think most if not all of us here realize just how exacting good pizza-making needs to be, especially at this level. That's really the whole point of this forum.

But playing coy and having that carefree attitude is an effective way of dodging any probing questions and not having to reveal anything he doesn't want you to know. It also works into his backstory of how a "regular guy" just decided one day on a whim to make pizza for a living.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: fatstache on June 29, 2021, 03:51:42 PM
So, here's my latest Lucali-style pie. Worked with some of the key characteristics of the Lucali-style dough, ie. very low hydration and no oil.

For this iteration, I ended up reducing the salt content and switching out ADY with my active sourdough culture. Note that I started making this dough Thursday of last week - I felt so bad rolling all that fermented goodness out of the dough. Definitely not identical to Lucali's, Mark is undoubtedly using commercial yeast, but I still found it familiar and overall excellent. No sourness or lactic acidic flavour - very subtle complexities.

I can't stress enough how thankful I am of this community. I owe so much to the members of the community who laid the groundwork before I got here.

Regards,

NB




Can you share the ingredients and measurements for this. It looks insane and I want to try this weekend.  Beautiful Pie.



Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: aaron_ on July 05, 2021, 02:13:23 PM
Hereís my attempt! Very thankful to everyone who contributed to this topic. I read all 16 pages of posts and watched many of the linked videos before attempting this. I used 60% hydration, could probably have gone a little lower. I also used 1% sugar to help with the browning, though I doubt Mark uses sugar at all. I used a sourdough starter and fermented each dough ball differently to see which would come out best. I got the best results when I took the dough balls directly out of the fridge and opened them cold. The pizza in the picture was fermented at 65įF for 12 hours, then 24 hours in the fridge. I also got good results from a straight 36 hours in the fridge with no RT fermentation. Next week Iíll try some longer CFs Ė up to 72 hours.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Farmageddon on July 05, 2021, 06:01:34 PM
Here's my attempt at Lucali.

I basically use Andrew Bellucci's recipe and technique (scaled for 14 inch pizzas, 90 min autolyse, 2 hour rt bulk ferment, 15 hour cold ferment, ball, 2 hour rt ferment, 72 hour cold ferment, and then let it over ferment at room temperature until the dough balls are almost completely flat, which for me was like 4-5 hours. Then I don't have to roll it out and it stretches out super easy and super thin.)

It's very crispy and flavorful. My dad said it was the best pizza he's ever had before.

Sauce is Bianca DiNapoli tomatoes passed through medium grate on a food mill, cooked for 20 minutes at lowest temperature with olive oil, garlic, oregano and fresh basil with salt. Then left in the fridge for 2 days.

Cheeses are low moisture mozzarella, Italian provolone, parmesan before bake and grana pradano grated on top at the very end after baking.

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: zh4k on July 20, 2021, 10:01:52 PM
I also would like a recipe when you get some time.  Thanks.  If you have a basic breakdown of weights for like 4 pies to go in an oven, that'd be even better as I'm still learning all the calculations.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Projectfx on July 22, 2021, 05:19:10 PM
i got on a real lucali kick last week, watched a bunch of videos and ended up winding myself up enough to break my "diet". Coming from high hydration sourdough this dough was very different to deal with but good (i would never ever roll the dough out with a pin normally).

The only ehh thing was the crust, was just too crispy, i was expecting it to be less so. Wondering if anyone can offer some tips on what the facts would be in that.

I did 60% hydration with IDY on my Ooni Koda 16, i think i would have prob gotten good results on the baking steel as well.

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: SonVolt on July 22, 2021, 08:36:51 PM
That looks great. I've kinda had the same issue with too much crispiness in this style pie. I'm thinking about keeping the rolling pin off the crust next time and just rolling out the inner area.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Projectfx on July 22, 2021, 09:07:11 PM
Thanks man.
Itís got to be the oven/heatÖ.right?
He rolls out the entire thingÖwe should be able to as well!! Lol
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jimbojuan on August 06, 2021, 04:39:39 PM
I think they are rolled cold and stacked to proof one last time at rt so the edges are not so flattened and the crust is more airy.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: fatstache on August 29, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
So, here's my latest Lucali-style pie. Worked with some of the key characteristics of the Lucali-style dough, ie. very low hydration and no oil.

For this iteration, I ended up reducing the salt content and switching out ADY with my active sourdough culture. Note that I started making this dough Thursday of last week - I felt so bad rolling all that fermented goodness out of the dough. Definitely not identical to Lucali's, Mark is undoubtedly using commercial yeast, but I still found it familiar and overall excellent. No sourness or lactic acidic flavour - very subtle complexities.

I can't stress enough how thankful I am of this community. I owe so much to the members of the community who laid the groundwork before I got here.

Regards,

NB

Nathan, can you share the calculations you used for this. yours looks a lot closer to lucali than mine does.

Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Simpleguycooks on September 21, 2021, 02:39:50 PM
i got on a real lucali kick last week, watched a bunch of videos and ended up winding myself up enough to break my "diet". Coming from high hydration sourdough this dough was very different to deal with but good (i would never ever roll the dough out with a pin normally).

The only ehh thing was the crust, was just too crispy, i was expecting it to be less so. Wondering if anyone can offer some tips on what the facts would be in that.

I did 60% hydration with IDY on my Ooni Koda 16, i think i would have prob gotten good results on the baking steel as well.

Any other advice using the Koda?  My challenge is using that super low setting for my NY style and to cook 4 mins.  Will try the 60ish hydratio
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: jsobolew on October 01, 2021, 12:38:29 AM
Guys, I just want to say that I went to Lucali a week ago and I think I'd rather eat all the pizza in this thread. It was mostly fine on the sauce, cheese and basil but the crust was off putting for me. Just super thin and no life to it, taste and texture of a cracker. On a weird note, Bill Clinton walked in while I was waiting outside for my pizza.
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on October 01, 2021, 03:07:13 AM
Well, I bet most of us aren't coming close to that!! :)
Title: Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
Post by: [email protected] on October 01, 2021, 06:46:28 PM
Guys, I just want to say that I went to Lucali a week ago and I think I'd rather eat all the pizza in this thread. It was mostly fine on the sauce, cheese and basil but the crust was off putting for me. Just super thin and no life to it, taste and texture of a cracker. On a weird note, Bill Clinton walked in while I was waiting outside for my pizza.

Iíve kinda wondered about that. Crust reminds me of the pizza Shakeyís sold out here when I moved from NY in 70s. Not sure how well Lucali would have been received in the Brooklyn of my youth. 🤣 on Clinton. Sure thereís a joke or two in there, but I better stick with pizza.