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Author Topic: Peter Reinhartís Country Pizza Dough & Classic Pizza Dough, Neo-Neapolitan Style  (Read 66238 times)

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Online norma427

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Norma,

I tried this morning to find what is in the retail Better for Bread flour but I could not find anything on that flour. It is listed at the Betty Crocker website at http://www.bettycrocker.com/products/gold-medal-flour/products/better-for-bread-flour, but if you click on the Nutrition Information button, you will be taken to a general list of products but not flours. If you have an old Better for Bread empty flour bag, you might check to see what the ingredients are for that flour. I was able to find information on the ingredients for the retail Pillsbury flour at http://www.pillsburybaking.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?catID=299&prodID=719. I have operated under the assumption that the retail Better for Bread flour is the same as the professional General Mills Harvest King flour with the specs given at http://www.gmiflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/HarvestKingWest53722(West).doc. If I am correct, then the main difference from a spec standpoint seems to be that the Pillsbury bread flour contains some ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) as a dough conditioner. However, according to the GM website, the Harvest King flour is milled from winter wheat. By contrast, according to http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pillsbury-Best-Bread-Enriched-Flour-5-lb/10308169, the Pillsbury bread flour is milled from hard spring wheat.

Since the Reinhart dough recipes simply call for using unbleached bread flour as a generic product, and unless he said somewhere that one should use the Better for Bread flour, I don't think I would worry about using the Pillsbury bread flour in his recipes.

Peter

Peter,

I didnít think of looking at both bags to see if they might contain the same ingredients.  I have a Better for Bread bag that is almost empty.  This is a picture of the Better for Bread bag and the Pillsbury Bread bag.  Thanks for looking up the information.

I will see if the Pillsbury Bread flour performs any different than the Better for Bread flour I used in my last attempt.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Norma,

I figured that the Better for Bread information had to be somewhere in the Betty Crocker data, so I kept poking around to find it. What I found is that you have to use the Gold Medal link to get to http://www.generalmills.com/Home/Brands/Baking_Products/Gold_Medal/Brand%20Product%20List%20Page.aspx and then click on the Better for Bread flour link. I tried to provide a link to the actual page, but that didn't work. It's a poorly designed website.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 11:15:23 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline fazzari

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Norma
I use Reinharts methods exactly in both his country dough and classic dough.  I was originally drawn to try these doughs because of their simplicity...and part of that means time commitment.  So, when I fold its exactly as proscribed by him.  My only variances might be in salt and yeast,
John

Offline forzaroma

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Norma 

   I see that you used Reinharts recipe in the WFO. My question is since 100 percnet caputo is best suited for WFO I am wondering if the neo neopoiltan Reinhart recipe changes using  WFO or just a standard home oven. Would you have to change any numbers in the dough?

Online norma427

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Norma,

I figured that the Better for Bread information had to be somewhere in the Betty Crocker data, so I kept poking around to find it. What I found is that you have to use the Gold Medal link to get to http://www.generalmills.com/Home/Brands/Baking_Products/Gold_Medal/Brand%20Product%20List%20Page.aspx and then click on the Better for Bread flour link. I tried to provide a link to the actual page, but that didn't work. It a poorly designed website.

Peter

Peter,

I had to laugh when you said you had to poke around to find the information.  :-D  You sure are a good person to find information.  I also tried to copy the direct link and it didnít work for me either when I put it in my browser.

Norma

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Online norma427

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Norma
I use Reinharts methods exactly in both his country dough and classic dough.  I was originally drawn to try these doughs because of their simplicity...and part of that means time commitment.  So, when I fold its exactly as proscribed by him.  My only variances might be in salt and yeast,
John

John,

Thanks for posting you did use Reinhart's exact methods.  I also like the simplicity of how easy this dough is to make.  I will see how the doughs bake in the deck oven tomorrow.

Norma

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Norma 

   I see that you used Reinharts recipe in the WFO. My question is since 100 percnet caputo is best suited for WFO I am wondering if the neo neopoiltan Reinhart recipe changes using  WFO or just a standard home oven. Would you have to change any numbers in the dough?

forzaroma,

I would tend to think using any kind of Caputo formula would change if using it in a WFO compared to a home oven.  I would also tend to think there would have to be more bread flour added than Caputo to bake at regular temperatures in a home oven.  I am going to try both of these recipes in my deck oven at market tomorrow, but I didnít use any Caputo in my doughs.  Maybe if these doughs are successful in the deck oven, I might give my home oven a shot in making these doughs.  Maybe even at some point I might try a blend of Caputo and bread flour.

I will post pictures of my two doughs later on today.

Norma

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forzaroma,

I would tend to think using any kind of Caputo formula would change if using it in a WFO compared to a home oven.  I would also tend to think there would have to be more bread flour added than Caputo to bake at regular temperatures in a home oven.  I am going to try both of these recipes in my deck oven at market tomorrow, but I didnít use any Caputo in my doughs.  Maybe if these doughs are successful in the deck oven, I might give my home oven a shot in making these doughs.  Maybe even at some point I might try a blend of Caputo and bread flour.

I will post pictures of my two doughs later on today.

Norma

Yes i know ny question is to you I saw u baked some pies using reinharts recipe and used a friends wfo. Just wondering if anything changed with the recipe using the wfo not using 00 flour.

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Yes i know ny question is to you I saw u baked some pies using reinharts recipe and used a friends wfo. Just wondering if anything changed with the recipe using the wfo not using 00 flour.

forzaroma,

Sorry, I misunderstood your question.  The pizza made with bread flour did bake well in my friends WFO.  I was at Steve's home different times last year and baked different formula's in his WFO. Some with starters and some without.  I even used Caputo flour in some of my formulas.  Everything seems to turn out better when bake in a WFO, at least in my opinion. 

Steve also made doughs with the Keste's clone formula John gave on the Keste's clone thread.  Those pizzas were also great.  Steve made them with pizzeria flour.  If you or anyone are interested this thread is where I posted about other bakes in Steveís WFO.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11887.msg110611.html#msg110611

Norma

Offline forzaroma

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i used caputo also but very little i was happy with that batch of pies, but i feel ur only as good as ur last pie and I was very upset about my caputo attempt. Did u feel that when using the WFO with out using caputo did they cook/ get color quicker not using caputo?

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Online norma427

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i used caputo also but very little i was happy with that batch of pies, but i feel ur only as good as ur last pie and I was very upset about my caputo attempt. Did u feel that when using the WFO with out using caputo did they cook/ get color quicker not using caputo?

forzaroma,

I am glad you were happy with the pies you made with the little Caputo.  No, I donít get upset it my pies donít turn out well.  I then have sometime to think over what went wrong and why I wouldnít attempt something like that again.  It all teaches me something in the end.  I have learned many things from failed experiments.  My pies or experiments don't always turn out good.   :-D

I was surprised that the pies didnít cook any quicker or get more color when I had used Better for Bread in the formula. I donít know if all the oil in the formula kept the crumb softer, but it might have.  Steve asked me if I wanted my pie baked first.  The oven was the hottest then.  I had no idea how bread flour would bake in Steveís WFO, but the end pies were good.  They reminded me of pies made with Caputo or Pizzeria Caputo. 

This is a picture of what the oven temperature was when the Better for Bread Reinhart's pie went into the WFO.

Norma

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forzaroma,

I am glad you were happy with the pies you made with the little Caputo.  No, I donít get upset it my pies donít turn out well.  I then have sometime to think over what went wrong and why I wouldnít attempt something like that again.  It all teaches me something in the end.  I have learned many things from failed experiments.  My pies or experiments don't always turn out good.   :-D

I was surprised that the pies didnít cook any quicker or get more color when I had used Better for Bread in the formula. I donít know if all the oil in the formula kept the crumb softer, but it might have.  Steve asked me if I wanted my pie baked first.  The oven was the hottest then.  I had no idea how bread flour would bake in Steveís WFO, but the end pies were good.  They reminded me of pies made with Caputo or Pizzeria Caputo. 

This is a picture of what the oven temperature was when the Better for Bread Reinhart's pie went into the WFO.

Norma

Have you tried all Caputo in a home setting? Betetr yet when you did caputo in the WFO was it that much better than the other flours?

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Have you tried all Caputo in a home setting? Betetr yet when you did caputo in the WFO was it that much better than the other flours?

forzaroma,

I did use Caputo flour for different pies I made in my deck oven, home oven and BBQ grill set-up.  If you are interested, this is one at Reply 12 baked in my deck oven http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9880.msg85965.html#msg85965 
another one at Reply 1 baked in my home oven
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9880.msg85831.html#msg85831
ď00" flour baked in my BBQ grill set-up at Reply 61 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11578.msg106880.html#msg106880
Greek pizza made with Caputo dough Steve had made at Reply 87 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12025.msg114567.html#msg114567

I also tried some doughs for the Pizzarium thread with durum flour and also did some durum and mixed flour pizza on other threads.  Durum flour behaves something like Caputo.

To answer you question about was different Caputo flours being better in a WFO, I would say all the pizzas did taste good, no matter what flour is used, but in my opinion the formula, fermentation times, kinds of yeast and how the dough is handled  has a lot to do with how a final pizza will taste no matter where it is made.  I like almost any dough formula baked in a WFO better, except deep-dish and thin crust pizzas.

Norma

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These are the pictures of my two doughs for tomorrow.  The pictures were taken this evening.  There is a winter storm advisory for our area and they are calling for 3-7" of snow.  Don't know if I will be able to try these doughs to make pizzas.   :o  What a shame if I can't get to try out these doughs tomorrow.  :-\  The Country dough with the whole wheat is fermenting faster again.  I still can't figure that out, because they both were left out for the same length of time and the final doughs temperatures were the same.  Both of these doughs are really easy to make.

Norma


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The Country dough with the whole wheat is fermenting faster again.  I still can't figure that out, because they both were left out for the same length of time and the final doughs temperatures were the same.  Both of these doughs are really easy to make.

Norma,

Unless you are not following Peter Reinhart's recipes as he presented them, and since the two balls you made today were treated the same and had the same finished dough temperatures, that would seem to suggest that the Country dough is fermenting faster because it has more yeast, as I noted at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13037.msg127561.html#msg127561.

Peter

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Norma,

Unless you are not following Peter Reinhart's recipes as he presented them, and since the two balls you made today were treated the same and had the same finished dough temperatures, that would seem to suggest that the Country dough is fermenting faster because it has more yeast, as I noted at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13037.msg127561.html#msg127561.

Peter

Peter,

I either didn't read your post right or my old brain is getting to me or maybe it is all this snow stuff on a Monday or Tuesday that is getting to me.   :-D  Even when I made both doughs today, I didn't even notice the Country Dough had more yeast.  I just looked at both of my formulas and can see the Country Dough I used has more yeast. I just copied both formulas and might as well post both formulas in case anyone is interested in seeing what I did. 

I got all those darn dough balls at market waiting to be made into pizzas and it is snowing now.  Snow can get on the brain after awhile, at least when it falls on a Tuesday.  Now I  even have all these experimental doughs (4) waiting to be made into pizzas and I guess they won't be made into pizzas.  I guess I play around with too many experiments at once. 

Thanks for finding my error again.

two formulas

Norma

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formula

Norma

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forzaroma,

I did use Caputo flour for different pies I made in my deck oven, home oven and BBQ grill set-up.  If you are interested, this is one at Reply 12 baked in my deck oven http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9880.msg85965.html#msg85965 
another one at Reply 1 baked in my home oven
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9880.msg85831.html#msg85831
ď00" flour baked in my BBQ grill set-up at Reply 61 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11578.msg106880.html#msg106880
Greek pizza made with Caputo dough Steve had made at Reply 87 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12025.msg114567.html#msg114567

I also tried some doughs for the Pizzarium thread with durum flour and also did some durum and mixed flour pizza on other threads.  Durum flour behaves something like Caputo.

To answer you question about was different Caputo flours being better in a WFO, I would say all the pizzas did taste good, no matter what flour is used, but in my opinion the formula, fermentation times, kinds of yeast and how the dough is handled  has a lot to do with how a final pizza will taste no matter where it is made.  I like almost any dough formula baked in a WFO better, except deep-dish and thin crust pizzas.

Norma

I read  the thread on the caputo 00 deep dish. I didnt see how long you baked the pie at. I always thought baking a caputo pie in a relatively low temp and cooking more than 3 minutes will make the dough tough and colorless

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I read  the thread on the caputo 00 deep dish. I didnt see how long you baked the pie at. I always thought baking a caputo pie in a relatively low temp and cooking more than 3 minutes will make the dough tough and colorless

forzaroma,

That pie was baked without oil in the pan so I don't remember why the crust did brown some. It is hard to use Caputo in a lower temperature oven to get browning and the right crust texture.  Caputo alone, without another flour in the mix doesn't do too well for me in my lower oven temperatures.  Maybe other members have had better results with Caputo alone in lower oven temperatures.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 08:33:59 AM by norma427 »

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forzaroma,

That pie was baked in a pan with oil, so the crust wasn't tough and did brown. It is hard to use Caputo in a lower temperature oven to get browning and the right crust texture.  Caputo alone, without another flour in the mix doesn't do too well for me in my lower oven temperatures.  Maybe other members have had better results with Caputo in lower oven temperatures.

Norma

Well I dont think Ill be using 100 percent 00 in my home oven any longer. I will def test higher percentage mixes as i get used to the 00.Does caputo flour 00 have an expiration?

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