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Author Topic: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods  (Read 26199 times)

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Offline jkb

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2015, 03:03:23 PM »
Rachael sandwiches, of course:

Needs more pastrami.  :-D

Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2015, 03:17:19 PM »
Bill:

The rye bread and sandwich look great!  I just received my copy of Inside the Jewish Bakery and rye bread will be on my hit list of things to bake.

I had to do some research when you said you were making a Rachel sandwich.  I do not remember that sandwich when growing up in NY.  I checked out the menus of some famous delis - Carnegie (touristy titles), 2nd Ave Deli (a real deal) and Katz (a real real deal).  Nada.

Then I found one of the delis I actually frequented as a kid - Ben's Best in Queens.  They are still around and a Rachel is on their menu as a "Special" - Turkey, Pastrami, Tongue and Russian Dressing.

What is on yours?  Do you know where you first heard of (or had) a Rachel (or Rachael?).   Coincidentally, my cousins that were born and raised in the Bronx are coming over tomorrow.  I will check their memories.

PS I agree.  Needs more pastrami.   >:D You need so much that you can't possibly eat it all without indigestion!  :-D

Mitch

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2015, 03:54:47 PM »
Needs more pastrami.  :-D

When you get to be an old geezer like me, those belly busters piled with so much meat that you can't open your mouth wide enough lose their appeal, especially several hours later.  :o

Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2015, 03:57:56 PM »
When you get to be an old geezer like me, it does not take several hours.   :-X
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2015, 04:01:09 PM »
Rachel is the offspring of the Reuben with many variations. Subject to my mood, but generally:

Reuben: corned beef, sauerkraut, mustard, swiss, russian
Rachael: pastrami, cole slaw, swiss, mustard

Second Ave. Deli (before Abe Lebewohl was murdered) and the old Pastrami King in Queens are my touchstones.

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Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2015, 04:18:14 PM »
There you go - I assumed Rachel was his sister or wife. :)

My favorite sandwich was somewhere in-between - corned beef on rye with cole slaw.

Pastrami King moved to Merrick (out on Long Island) - away from the riff raff of Queens, I guess.

Geez, I don't know about this cheese and meat thing (hah! look at my pizzas!).  At least it is not an Annie Hall sandwich with white bread and mayo.  :P
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2015, 04:46:40 PM »
At least it is not an Annie Hall sandwich with white bread and mayo.  :P

An actual pastrami sandwich from an actual California deli:

Dutch crunch roll, mayo, sprouts, avocado, tomato, lettuce, Monterrey jack, pepperoncini, and a couple of paper-thin slices of low-fat "pastrami". True story! Sounds incredible! I have witnesses!

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2015, 05:21:49 PM »
Geez, I don't know about this cheese and meat thing

I got the Swiss cheese idea (in this case, emmenthaler) from a Julia Child recipe in "Baking with Julia". I was dubious at first, but it really works. The cheese is melted.

Offline jkb

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2015, 05:44:24 PM »
When you get to be an old geezer like me, those belly busters piled with so much meat that you can't open your mouth wide enough lose their appeal, especially several hours later.  :o

I didn't say you needed to eat it all!  It's about composition.  My wife, son and I split a pastrami sandwich at Katz's recently.  The three of us couldn't finish it.  It wouldn't have been nearly as good without the meat piled so high.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2015, 06:11:08 PM »
I didn't say you needed to eat it all!  It's about composition.  My wife, son and I split a pastrami sandwich at Katz's recently.  The three of us couldn't finish it.  It wouldn't have been nearly as good without the meat piled so high.

My rule of thumb for straight pastrami on rye with mustard:

1/2" slice of rye + 1 1/2" of pastrami + 1/2" slice of rye

For my tastes that is the perfect balance. All bets are off when composing a combo/celebrity sandwich.

Another rule for me: the slices of pastrami should be about 3/4" thick. If it is tough at this thickness or if the meat falls apart, then it is not cooked correctly. It should be tender and moist.

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Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2015, 09:12:02 PM »
I got the Swiss cheese idea (in this case, emmenthaler) from a Julia Child recipe in "Baking with Julia". I was dubious at first, but it really works. The cheese is melted.

I forgive you.  This time.   :P
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2015, 07:10:03 PM »
Here's a little video of the process for my sourdough onion rye mentioned above. Not going to have time to record voice-over. I've been playing around with fermenting under pressure. In this video, the rye dough is "pre-leavened" in the vacuum chamber. After the bag is sealed and pressure restored, the bag is strongly compressed ("Big Bang") which I think results in an improved gluten structure. The dough pretty much retains it shape in the oven. This was the best rye I have ever baked.



 

Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2015, 09:40:24 PM »
I took a crack at a NY Deli Rye after looking through my new book - Inside the Jewish Bakery.  30% of the flour was prefermented Rye using sourdough starter.  The other 70% was high gluten flour.  63% hydration and the rise was pretty quick, using IDY.

I can't say it was just like the rye bread I grew up with but it was very, very good - excellent for sandwiches.  My wife picked up some corned beef, pastrami, swiss and cole slaw from a local deli and we were good to go.

Just like the discussion above here in the thread, my wife gave me feedback that there was not enough meat on the sandwich for it to be a proper deli sandwich.  So, I needed to have a sandwich assembly re-do.  As always, she was right!  :-D


« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 09:49:34 PM by mitchjg »
Mitch

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Offline JD

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2015, 09:42:19 PM »
I took a crack at a NY Deli Rye after looking through my new book - Inside the Jewish Bakery.  30% of the flour was prefermented Rye using sourdough starter.  The other 70% was high gluten flour.  63% hydration and the rise was pretty quick, using IDY.

I can't say it was just like the rye bread I grew up with but it was very, very good - excellent for sandwiches.  My wife picked up some corned beef, pastrami, swiss and cole slaw from a local deli and we were good to go.

Just like the discussion above here in the thread, my wife gave me feedback that there was not enough meat on the sandwich for it to be a proper deli sandwich.  So, I need to have a sandwich assembly re-do.  As always, she was right!  :-D

I would love a good pastrami on rye right now... believe it or not, they don't have that down here in MS  :-D   Well done Mitch, and I agree with your wife!
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Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2015, 09:32:48 PM »
More Bagels - the inventory was depleted so I made another dozen (they keep really well in the freezer).

No poolish or sourdough, just straight IDY with a 1 1/2 room temperature + 18 hour cold ferment.  Outstanding taste and really nice and chewy.  I may want to try and figure out how to get the crust a little crisper but no complaints.  I think I have these pretty well figured out. 

Onward!

« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 09:42:19 PM by mitchjg »
Mitch

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Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2015, 09:20:21 PM »
Made another NY Deli Rye Bread to go with our corned beef and cabbage dinner tonight.  This time, I think the crust color and texture was better.  I spritzed with some water before baking and it was baked in my cloche - makes for a nice steamy environment.
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2015, 09:43:03 PM »
I'm posting to this thread because I want updates... get to work!!

If you want to master a hard roll, such as you'd see at any NY deli, that'd be pretty neat  ;D

Well, I got this assignment from Josh and I have not forgotten it.  Today was my first foray into making "Kaiser Rolls" from the book. 

The good news:  They tasted delicious.  My wife and I were devouring them.  We had one with ham and swiss (not quite Annie Hall style), one with prosciutto and mozzarella and the one we shared was good old plain buttered (wowza!). 

The not so good news:  I dutifully folded them according to the directions and with five nice pleats all tucked in and nice looking.  And then, as they proofed, they opened up.  I like it when flowers open up, but not my rolls!

The dough was a "light Vienna dough" - a tad sweet, a tad sour.  A little bit reminiscent of a challah and it did have a little bit of egg.

I will need to Google about and figure out how to make the pleats without ending up with a misshapen mess.  Most were ugly, but they will all be eaten without complaint!

In the meantime, they can be another Rorschach test for Peter (if you read the recent "Today's Pie" you will learn that Peter sees pigs in pies)....


Josh: I will try harder!


Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline JD

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2015, 10:33:17 PM »
Well, I got this assignment from Josh and I have not forgotten it.  Today was my first foray into making "Kaiser Rolls" from the book. 

The good news:  They tasted delicious.  My wife and I were devouring them.  We had one with ham and swiss (not quite Annie Hall style), one with prosciutto and mozzarella and the one we shared was good old plain buttered (wowza!). 

The not so good news:  I dutifully folded them according to the directions and with five nice pleats all tucked in and nice looking.  And then, as they proofed, they opened up.  I like it when flowers open up, but not my rolls!

The dough was a "light Vienna dough" - a tad sweet, a tad sour.  A little bit reminiscent of a challah and it did have a little bit of egg.

I will need to Google about and figure out how to make the pleats without ending up with a misshapen mess.  Most were ugly, but they will all be eaten without complaint!

In the meantime, they can be another Rorschach test for Peter (if you read the recent "Today's Pie" you will learn that Peter sees pigs in pies)....


Josh: I will try harder!

Yes! I can definitely see the resemblance (no, not to field dressed piglets). Are you ready to share your findings or are you going to study some more? Glad you took a shot at this Mitch, can't wait to try it.
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JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

Online mitchjg

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2015, 10:41:13 PM »
Yes! I can definitely see the resemblance (no, not to field dressed piglets). Are you ready to share your findings or are you going to study some more? Glad you took a shot at this Mitch, can't wait to try it.

What findings would you like me to share?????? 

I am going to study more, of course, on how to get the pleats right.  Beyond that, they were crisp but not "flaky."  I think that was about steam but I am not sure.
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline JD

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Re: Bialys, Bagels and Other NY / Jewish Bakery Goods
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2015, 10:49:51 PM »
What findings would you like me to share?????? 

I am going to study more, of course, on how to get the pleats right.  Beyond that, they were crisp but not "flaky."  I think that was about steam but I am not sure.

Well I guess a recipe but if you used something from a book I can see why you wouldn't want to share it. Is "The book" Inside the Jewish Bakery?
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You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

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