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  • #361 by bregent on 21 Oct 2017
  • Edit: Actually, it may be pale but could be ultra-light. I'm not sure who the producer is but I got it from Morebeer and don't have the original container. I would think any pale or light syrup you can find should be ok.
    https://www.morebeer.com/products/ultralight-malt-extract-syrup.html
    https://www.morebeer.com/products/pale-malt-extract-syrup.html
  • #362 by bjc113 on 03 Nov 2017
  • tried a batch with 1.75 DMP today, figured it would help the rise - I've been making the dough at night and bulk CF'ing until the AM...then at least 45 min after shaping on the counter I let it rise.

    Today I did 500, no stone, on the bottom of a broiler pan with silpats.  No flipping, about 15 min.  Very pleased with the results.
  • #363 by foreplease on 04 Nov 2017
  • tried a batch with 1.75 DMP today, figured it would help the rise - I've been making the dough at night and bulk CF'ing until the AM...then at least 45 min after shaping on the counter I let it rise.

    Today I did 500, no stone, on the bottom of a broiler pan with silpats.  No flipping, about 15 min.  Very pleased with the results.
    Thatís a good lookng batch! Nicely done.
  • #364 by mitchjg on 06 Nov 2017
  • I just baked up my first attempt at a batch of pumpernickel rye bagels.  Very happy with the results.

    There are not a lot of recipes out there for this type of bagel but my sleuthing on the web and review of a couple of my cookbooks took me to using about 1/3 pumpernickel flour and 2/3 bread flour.  The pumpernickel was organic from a local health food store and the bread flour was Giusto's High Performer - about 13.5% protein and not malted.

    The recipe was as follows:

    Flour 100%
    Water 56%
    Salt 2%
    IDY 0.7%
    Molasses 2%
    Cocoa powder 1%
    DMP (60 Lintner) 0.2%

    The dough produced 8 bagels @ 113 gram4 ounces each.  After they came out of the mixer, I split it in two.  For one of the halves, I hand kneaded in about 4 ounces of raisins - adding about 1 ounce to each.

    You will see I used molasses rather than barley syrup to give it a flavor (and color) that I believed would be more akin to a rye bread.  For the same reasons, I added a tablespoon of cocoa powder.  In reading about rye breads and the like from Jewish bakeries, I learned that the dark color comes very much from a coloring agent as opposed to rye flour - often in the form of a caramel coloring syrup.

    The dough was mixed for about 8 minutes in my new Bosch Universal mixer.  Even though it was a low hydration dough, the mixer came through with flying colors.  It may be I should have gone longer but it was hard to tell when the dough was fully developed - rye flour (no gluten) behaves very differently than wheat and it turns into kind of wallpaper paste when being mixed.

    I then followed my usual procedure - resting an hour, forming bagels, overnight cold ferment, boil and bake in the AM.

    The other change was that, in my quest to get a crispier shell, I left the bagels in the oven after they were fully baked with the oven off and the door cracked open a few inches.  I did get a much better, crispy exterior with just the right crunch.  I am not sure if the oven door thing was the trick.  The other factors were, of course, the flours.  I also baked a couple of minutes longer than usual and, due (I imagine) to the flours it did not overbake.  Of course, they may soften up later - time will tell.  The toaster will then be brought into play.

    Some of the raisins were on the exterior of the raisin bagels and some were on the burnt side.  I simply picked them off before serving.

    My wife and I just shared a raisin pumpernickel with a shmear of cream cheese and we thought it was delicious.  Great experiment!



  • #365 by Pete-zza on 06 Nov 2017
  • Mitch,

    As I have mentioned before, pumpernickel bagels are amongst my favorite, especially when I find myself in NYC. I suspected that they are not the easiest bagels to make. And that may be one of the reasons that I do not see them often where I live in Texas. There is an Einstein Bagel shop near me that sells pumpernickel bagels but I have been suspicious about the ingredients used to make those bagels. I could not quickly find an ingredients list for their pumpernickel bagels but I did find this ingredients list for their basic bagel:

    Plain Bagel (enriched bleached flour (wheat flour, malt barley flour, niacin, ferrous sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), water, high fructose corn syrup, salt, yeast, molasses, wheat gluten, malt barley flour, soy oil, contains less than 2% ascorbic acid, enzyme, L Cysteine).

    I shudder to think what the ingredients list looks like for the Einstein Bagels pumpernickel bagel.

    Your bagels are at least an attempt at a true pumpernickel bagel and they look great and appetizing. I also like the addition of the raisins.

    Peter

     
  • #366 by mitchjg on 06 Nov 2017
  • Thanks Peter.

    In my sleuthing around, it looked like many pumpernickel bagels have no rye flour - pumpernickel grind or whatever.  They are darkened with a coloring agent (in the ways I described) and not much more.

    In further looking around, I can see that I may do one of two things in the future - 1) make a soaker of the pumpernickel flour and water for a few hours before mixing the dough or 2) make a rye starter, get it vibrant and use that in the recipe. My lean is to do number 2.  It is along the lines of several rye bread recipes and I can see that it could add some "tang."  I am not worried much about the color since that is more psychological.

    If you have any suggestions to make them more "real", please let me know - I am open to any ideas you may have.  In the meantime, these were really good!
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