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  • #1 by Bert on 02 Sep 2017
  • I'm working on a steam generator device for bread baking in indoor ovens.  I have tested the idea and it seems it worked great.

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26375.msg494132#msg494132
    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26375.msg494979#msg494979

    My initial device turns 1.5 to 2 cups of room temperature water to boil at 550 f / bake convection oven in 4 to 5 minutes , and totally evaporated within 10 minutes. My final design to have 5+ cups of liquid capacity.

    It will be a while before I have a good working prototype and potential cost. I will share pictures of food  cooked or baked along with the device.

    Without giving any of the ideas away, will it work on a gas oven?
    .

    Barry, The device will work on gas ovens and large size BBQ grills. The device will perform faster when the oven is set on convection.
  • #2 by bigMoose on 04 Sep 2017
  • Bert, I look forward to your development when you can tell us more, as I am always looking for a better way to steam in my home oven.

     In the past I searched the patents for the large commercial ovens, and the one I found that resonated with me, had a chamber on the inside of the oven filled with 1 inch diameter stainless steel balls.  They "steamed" the oven by injecting water onto those steel balls that immediately flash vaporized.

    I translated this to my home oven (not wanting to drill a penetration through the oven shell for a water line) by lining a 9 x11 inch pan with new bar be cue lava rocks.  I let this preheat with the oven.  I first started pouring water over the rocks after loading my bread, but the flash steam was troublesome.  I then went to dumping 4 or 5 ice cubes into the tray that melt and then flash to steam.  This lengthens the time for the "steaming."
  • #3 by HBolte on 04 Sep 2017
  • This one is expensive but weighs over 10 pounds. It is filled with stainless steel. https://pleasanthillgrain.com/rofco-oven-steam-tray

    I have thought about getting one but will wait to see what you have in store.
  • #4 by Bert on 04 Sep 2017
  • I came across the patent you mentioned, there are currenlty on the market home convection steam ovens, but are not cheap.

    Bosch HSLP451UC (convection-steam)
    Gaggenau BS484610 (combi-steam)
    Miele DGC6705XL (combi-steam)
    Wolf CSO30PMSPH (convection-steam)

    My current device design size is about 10"x10"x 4" hx 6 lb weight,  it is simple and easy use and safer than any existing method to generate steam for indoor ovens. You just fill it up with room temperature water and place it in the oven, in short period of time the device start generating steam. It has large capacity, it will genrate steam for long period of time, it is easy to remove and refill if necessary.

    Some of my device concerns:
    -   It does have an industrious look, it may not appeal to some.
    -   Potential cost, still cheaper alternative to most current methods.
    -   Patentability
  • #5 by Bert on 04 Sep 2017
  • This one is expensive but weighs over 10 pounds. It is filled with stainless steel. https://pleasanthillgrain.com/rofco-oven-steam-tray

    I have thought about getting one but will wait to see what you have in store.

    I have not seen this one,  they don't mention how much water it can hold and how long it will take to generate steam.
  • #6 by Bert on 04 Sep 2017
  • I found more info about it at http://www.rofco.be/tb_EN.html , still not clear how much water it can hold. My main concern, is adding water to hot metal, which is not that much different than heating a cast iron pan and adding water to it.
  • #7 by foreplease on 04 Sep 2017
  • This one is expensive but weighs over 10 pounds. It is filled with stainless steel. https://pleasanthillgrain.com/rofco-oven-steam-tray

    I have thought about getting one but will wait to see what you have in store.
    That is an interesting web site. Thanks for the link.
  • #8 by Bert on 10 Sep 2017
  • #9 by foreplease on 10 Sep 2017
  • That looks great have you or do you plan to do any side by side bakes to see the difference steam makes?
  • #10 by The Dough Doctor on 10 Sep 2017
  • Just to add a little insight into adding steam into an oven which was not originally designed for steam. It is one thing to bake in the oven without added steam and it is a totally different thing to bake in the same oven with added steam. Even putting a pan of water in the oven does not really constitute adding steam to the oven, it only increases the humidity in the air which will allow for some condensation to form onto the colder product which is being baked resulting in delayed crust development and better oven spring without shredding (developing break and shred) of the crust. The problems arise when we inject steam into the oven, thus flooding the oven with moisture. As the product is baked the yeast fermentation by-products (carbon dioxide, alcohol, and acids) are released into the oven which are now absorbed by the steam and are carried by the steam into all parts of the oven (including any exhaust vents or stacks), real problem areas are those areas behind the panels lining the oven which require major disassembly to access, as these areas are typically cooler than the actual baking chamber the steam condenses in these areas leaving behind concentrated alcohol and acids which are highly corrosive resulting in the development of unwanted rust and ultimately metal failure. This is well documented in large industrial ovens as well as smaller ovens such as you would find in a small neighbor hood bakery. This is not to say that your kitchen oven will collapse, but there is a high probability that the oven will develop troublesome rust and special attention will need to be paid to and ventilation/exhaust stacks which, unless constructed of a SPECIAL grade of stainless steel (formulated to resist the alcohol and acids) will most likely degrade in a fairly short period of time by developing pin hole leaks and ultimately larger holes.
    It is better to know what the obstacles are ahead of you than to discover them along the way. Proceed with caution while armed with knowledge.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
  • #11 by Bill/SFNM on 10 Sep 2017
  • This old video I made shows the method I've been using with a steam injected with a steam cleaner into a stainless steel cover. After 10 years or so, the oven is fine, although the inside of the dome has to be cleaned every few years.



    Typically I inject steam every 5 minutes and remove the dome after 10-20 minutes. Ventilation fans in the oven quickly evacuate any residual moisture for a nice crispy crust.
  • #12 by Bert on 10 Sep 2017
  • Tony, eventually I will, but as Tom mentioned, adding steam (moisture) in bread baking delay crust development and offer better oven spring. Here’s few post that describe the top methods for adding steam (moisture):

    https://www.theperfectloaf.com/baking-with-steam-in-your-home-oven/
    http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017/02/28/steam-in-bread-baking/

    Tom,

    My device doesn’t inject steam in the oven, it uses the oven heat to turn water within the oven into steam (moisture). Amount of steam release can be adjusted. It is a simpler and safer way than the methods described in the above posts.

    I do have a concern of adding extra moisture within home ovens, my recommendation for that is to burb the oven multiple times once the bread is fully opened.
  • #13 by HBolte on 10 Sep 2017
  • Looking forward to seeing your product. Right now for the home baker it's pretty hard to beat a Cloche/Dutch oven.
  • #14 by Bert on 10 Sep 2017
  • Right now for the home baker it's pretty hard to beat a Cloche/Dutch oven.

    Combo cookers / dutch ovens / cloche is the best option comparing to other methods, still, you are limited to boule shape and size. Plus you can't watch the entire bread baking process.
  • #15 by Bert on 16 Sep 2017
  • My first semi-baguettes. All purpose flour, 65% hydration, baked for 15 minutes at 475f in a preheated oven at 500f with the steam generator device 5 minutes before baking.
  • #16 by Bert on 25 Sep 2017
  • My first boule on the grill using the Mighty Pizza Stone and my moisture maker prototype. It was a simple and fun bake.
  • #17 by Bert on 30 Sep 2017
  • Overnight sourdough poolish, 3-4 hours room temperature ferment. Baked on the grill with the steam maker for 25 minutes and without it for another 14 minutes.
  • #18 by Bert on 01 Oct 2017
  • It took less than 5 minutes to bring 2 cups of water to boiling With the oven set 500f

  • #19 by Bert on 06 Oct 2017
  • That looks great have you or do you plan to do any side by side bakes to see the difference steam makes?

    I still have not done a side by side bake but I found the pics below at
    http://www.sourdoughbreadrecipe.com.au/baking-tips/steam-in-a-domestic-oven-why-how/
  • #20 by Bert on 14 Oct 2017
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