"High Hydration" dough did not stick to peel - not even a little

[mitchjg]

I made a couple of pies last night at a higher hydration than I usually do ( http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg434471#msg434471 ). 

The dough had 64% H2O and 5% oil yielding an "effective hydration" of 69%.  It was fermented for 27 hours @64 degrees with 0.05% IDY and the flour protein was about 12%.  The dough was very extensible and opened very easily.  I used a rolling pin (a very, very rare practice for me).  I dipped each side of the ball in a bowl of flour before opening, as I usually do.

I floured the peel with a rice flour/semolina mix as I usually do. 

The dough did not stick to the counter or the peel (after transfer) even a little bit.  I shook it a couple of times along the way to make sure of that but it did not seem necessary.  I was quite surprised that I had zero trouble with such a high hydration.

Is there something about the oil in the dough (which, as mentioned, I counted towards the hydration) that helped the dough behave so very well. Anything else?  I was expecting a little struggle but the dough was in no mood to argue with me even a little bit!

[Jackie Tran]

The reason why the dough handled so well is because despite upping the hydration and 5% oil, you built up the gluten strength properly to match the increase hydration.  Meaning the dough was sufficiently strong.  If you list your mix times, and any other dough building steps like S&Fs, or reballs it will become clear.   When the dough is sufficiently strong there is very little to virtually no sticking.  If the strength is built too strong then you will have a hard time opening the dough.  If the dough is too weak relative to the flour strength and hydration level, then the dough will be much harder to handle.

Did you use the same methods as before when working with lower hydration doughs or did you make any adjustments for the higher hydration?

[mitchjg]

The reason why the dough handled so well is because despite upping the hydration and 5% oil, you built up the gluten strength properly to match the increase hydration.  Meaning the dough was sufficiently strong.  If you list your mix times, and any other dough building steps like S&Fs, or reballs it will become clear.   When the dough is sufficiently strong there is very little to virtually no sticking.  If the strength is built too strong then you will have a hard time opening the dough.  If the dough is too weak relative to the flour strength and hydration level, then the dough will be much harder to handle.

Did you use the same methods as before when working with lower hydration doughs or did you make any adjustments for the higher hydration?

Chau:

I made the dough in my food processor - which I do about 20% of the time.  Mixed all the dry together first (flour, salt, IDY).  Mixed the oil in with he water in a cup and stirred it around.  I ran the food processor and added the water in a steady stream (15 seconds?).   A ball forms after a few seconds and then I let it run for about 45 seconds.  I targeted a final dough temperature in the high 70s and finished at 77 degrees.

Super smooth dough and a bit "floppy" - definitely not tight.  I then balled it up and put it in the wine fridge (which started at 58 and moved up to 64 as I let it warm from a prior setting).

I can't compare this to prior dough preps with the food processor since my hydration is usually around 62% - 63% with an addition of 0% or 1% oil.  Really no change in approach (from other food processor mixes) that I can recall.

Comments?

[Jackie Tran]

It makes sense to me.  The food processor creates a very strong dough.  10-20 seconds too long in the FP and you can actually over build the gluten strength.  You probably didn't time your mix times with your lower hydration doughs and likely have been stopping the mix after certain visual and physical dough characteristics achieved, like smooth soft appearance.   It's hard to time mix times in the FP.  I typically mix until the dough comes together and then use the pulse function and count off how many times I pulse the dough, or how many revolutions the dough makes.  Either way, if you could time the two doughs, it's likely that you are mixing quite a bit more with this new dough.  It doesn't seem that way b/c the FP, builds strength very quickly in a span of just seconds rather than minutes in a standard mixer.   

Also it's good that you stopped the FP once the dough is smooth and still floppy.  You don't want a tight dough coming out of the FP.  It would be a good indication that the dough was overmixed.  This overmixed dough won't stick either, but won't necessarily produce good results either. 

The non stickiness is purely a function of the dough strength and not the oil.  The oil actually works against building gluten strength to some extent. 

As a fun experiment, you can repeat this same dough but without the oil.  Mix it in the FP the same way or even mix it a bit longer just to see.  Now bake up the crust without cheese, since you won't be eating much of this pie.  The resulting crust you will get will be crunchy on the outside, but tough, somewhat dry, & unpleasantly chewy on the inside.  An example of over gluten development.