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Author Topic: How much old dough?  (Read 604 times)

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Offline alexmoo

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How much old dough?
« on: February 09, 2022, 10:20:18 AM »
Hi All,

We're a new pizzeria and we are just getting into the swing of things with quantities etc, so we make more than necessary, but this means that we sometimes end up with dough that is too far gone (can't be reballed etc.). Bit of an obtuse question I understand but how much old dough have you got away with using in a new batch?

Let's say I have 8kg of flour, could I add 4kg of old dough and use that?

Hope that is clear, and thanks!

Offline scott r

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2022, 10:35:08 AM »
15% is usually what is recommended.   

If it starts to get stringy, a giant bubble on top, and seems really over fermented dont use it.   If the dough is in good shape and you would consider it ready to make a good pizza you can go above 15% without harm up until about 25% and still make great pizza.

Offline alexmoo

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2022, 10:44:13 AM »
15% is usually what is recommended.   

If it starts to get stringy, a giant bubble on top, and seems really over fermented dont use it.   If the dough is in good shape and you would consider it ready to make a good pizza you can go above 15% without harm up until about 25% and still make great pizza.

Brilliant, thanks very much, that is very helpful! Quick question, why could you not use it if very stringy? Wouldn't it be refreshed when added to a fresh batch of water and water?

Offline scott r

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2022, 10:55:11 AM »
Eventually the dough will have the same effect as a poolish used past its prime and has become too acidified.  It would create a pale dough that had inferior texture and an off flavor.   

Offline amolapizza

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2022, 11:08:08 AM »
Also consider baking garlic knots with leftover dough.
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Offline alexmoo

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2022, 11:14:33 AM »
Eventually the dough will have the same effect as a poolish used past its prime and has become too acidified.  It would create a pale dough that had inferior texture and an off flavor.

Ah ok, thanks :)

Offline alexmoo

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2022, 11:14:59 AM »
Also consider baking garlic knots with leftover dough.

Thanks, good shout! I'm hoping I could freeze them and use in the future.

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2022, 08:53:44 PM »
I'm sure Peter can link a post from Tom... he had an amount that was acceptable... I'm think around 20%.... here at work?? We make bread, and serve it with our pastas, soups and salads. Free bread!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2022, 09:24:07 PM »
QJ,

This is what Tom generally suggested as to the use of old dough:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=65418.msg640586#msg640586

I also talked about old dough in Reply 388 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg25670;topicseen#msg25670

There is also a pre-fermented dough that is sometimes called an old dough. See, for example, the pre-fermented dough as discussed in the Didier Rosada article at:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm

Peter

Offline Yael

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2022, 01:04:59 AM »
In addition to what has been said above, I give you other thoughts: if you have so much unused dough, did you consider re-viewing your operation? Like making less dough? Or if you use the CF method, don't take so much dough out?

Another solution would be to use smaller amounts of yeast with longer time at RT: you can basically double the window time in which you can use your dough; or in the same spirit using a second fridge, "warmer" than the fermentation one, so the dough will ferment slowly (for example: the fridge in which you leave the dough is set at 2~4°C, and the second one set at 10 or 15°C).

Depending on the state for your dough ball at that time (no strong acidic flavor...), you can re-ball it and re-use it. If you bake at Neapolitan temperatures the visual result should be ok; if you bake at lower temperatures (300-350°C), dough might come out at little bit too white.
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Offline alexmoo

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2022, 06:20:24 AM »
QJ,

This is what Tom generally suggested as to the use of old dough:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=65418.msg640586#msg640586

I also talked about old dough in Reply 388 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg25670;topicseen#msg25670

There is also a pre-fermented dough that is sometimes called an old dough. See, for example, the pre-fermented dough as discussed in the Didier Rosada article at:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm

Peter

Thanks, that is really helpful!

Offline alexmoo

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2022, 06:21:51 AM »
In addition to what has been said above, I give you other thoughts: if you have so much unused dough, did you consider re-viewing your operation? Like making less dough? Or if you use the CF method, don't take so much dough out?

Another solution would be to use smaller amounts of yeast with longer time at RT: you can basically double the window time in which you can use your dough; or in the same spirit using a second fridge, "warmer" than the fermentation one, so the dough will ferment slowly (for example: the fridge in which you leave the dough is set at 2~4°C, and the second one set at 10 or 15°C).

Depending on the state for your dough ball at that time (no strong acidic flavor...), you can re-ball it and re-use it. If you bake at Neapolitan temperatures the visual result should be ok; if you bake at lower temperatures (300-350°C), dough might come out at little bit too white.

Again, thanks once more, this is helpful, we are newly opened and are just trying to get the quantities right, so we're straying on the side of caution.

Offline Loarina Vega

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2022, 11:31:08 AM »
I'm One of The World's Tiniest Pizza Stand  Central Market York  we're open 3 times a week  but I will always reuse some of my old dough along with a poolish Sometimes it's 10% sometimes less of my 10 pound batch but Sometimes forgetful  Didn't notice I did not have yeast where I was on Sunday... so I could not make the Usual  night before Poolish My habitual normal procedure....  but I was glad to find 1..... 25.5 oz dough ball One left from a 10 pound batch   Last market day which was Saturday CF Until today Monday morning  that I was gonna make today   To open up Tuesday around 10 AM.  It will have a good flavor because of That old Dough  I always like to have a 48 hours CF but Sometimes Sunday I'm not able to get to the market and make the dough... A couple of weeks ago i had 4 to 5 dough balls left sometimes a slow market  day so that would probably be about 30 to 40%  for that  10 pound batch of the old dough balls the dough   Came out really nice... This morning I  added that old dough ball  and there will be a 6 hour RT...  Then I will make my 25.5 oz dough balls  then overnight CF till I'll be ready to open the market tomorrow
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 11:33:04 AM by Loarina Vega »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2022, 01:05:36 PM »
I'd be very mindful of the pizza quality. If adding old dough doesn't affect it, great. If it lowers it at all, it may end up being a lot more expensive to use it than to throw it out. Dough is cheap. Your reputation is priceless.
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Offline Loarina Vega

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2022, 01:12:55 PM »
I'd be very mindful of the pizza quality. If adding old dough doesn't affect it, great. If it lowers it at all, it may end up being a lot more expensive to use it than to throw it out. Dough is cheap. Your reputation is priceless.
     Hi I'm 53 years old and I've been hearing of this process since I was about 10 or 11 years old I grew up in  Which some locals called it  * Little Italy * Middletown Connecticut a lot of old time pizza makers which I was always running around Watching because it was my Passion as a little girl Lately my customers have been all surprised always always their eyes light up with a bite of my pizza and always tell me maybe 60 something times a week how they have never tasted anything as good as They are experiencing when they try my pizza at my  Tiny Pizza Stand  ...  And I'm proud when I've had about 4 or 5 people in the last month saying my pizza's getting better and better and we are always learning but yes it's an Old Old
.. procedure for a bit of OLD dough in the batch   It definitely most definitely adds to a great! !flavor great flavor  !  Almost an exquisite sourdough flavor flavor which is exceptional  for an emergency dough or  otherwise my normal 38 hr  or little more... Hour Dough 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 01:26:47 PM by Loarina Vega »

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2022, 02:27:35 PM »
Consistency is also a key element of quality. If someone comes in one day and loves the pizza because there was old dough in the batch then comes in the next day and is disappointed because it isn't as good that day because there was no old dough in the batch, it's still a knock against the brand.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Loarina Vega

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Re: How much old dough?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2022, 09:29:45 PM »
On those days I have my Poolish I also have a really nice starter and that's how I get my consistency I'm Pretty brilliant I'm doing my calculations since I'm only open 3 days a week I know exactly how to fix my doughs  because I love  THAT ALMOST SOUR DOUGH flavor and consistency...I Take Pride That I Hear  Pizza Places are Nothing  Near my Flavor and I'm different...😊

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