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Author Topic: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!  (Read 935504 times)

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Offline Antilife

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2960 on: March 06, 2016, 01:24:07 PM »
Ciao Antilife, Omid l'ho conosciuto bene e non e' una persona che dice fesserie.  Infatti, secondo me, lui e' più preparato di 90% dei pizzaioli "professionisti" sul soggetto della pizza Napoletana.  Da lui si può solo imparare.........  In bocca al lupo.......

Dai post interessanti si vede. Non capisco solo se lavora o no come pizzaiolo (diceva a Ferrara se non ricordo male). Forse nei post precedenti mi sono frainteso per la lingua (a parte l'ultimo), credo che per far dei video di test si dovrebbe usare una situazione Reale e on fatta di solo pomodoro. Non essendo un pizzaiolo anche io ,riuscirei tranquillamente a fare una cosa del genere , ma gia se aggiungo mozzarella e ingredienti  oltre al peso c'e' anche il fattore tempo che incide sulla difficolta....e cmq resta il fatto che se e' vero che ha fatto 230 Pizze la prima  volta a 67% in sovramaturazione e' veramente un superman (anche se io purtroppo faccio fatica a crederlo....)

By interesting posts can be seen. I do not understand only if he works or not as a pizzaiolo (in Ferrara said if I remember correctly). Maybe in previous posts I misunderstood cause language (except the last), I believe that to make the test video you should use a real situation and not only tomato. Not being a pizza maker too, I could easily do the same, but already if I add mozzarella and ingredients in addition to the weight there 's also the time factor affecting the difficulties .... and in any case the fact remains that if and 'true that he made 230 pizzas the first time to 67% in overmaturation he is truly a superman (though I unfortunately I can hardly believe it ...)


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2961 on: March 06, 2016, 01:28:21 PM »
IMO, the choice of peel is far less important than the hands that hold it and the dough that sits on top.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline schold

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2962 on: March 06, 2016, 02:05:19 PM »
e cmq resta il fatto che se e' vero che ha fatto 230 Pizze la prima  volta a 67% in sovramaturazione e' veramente un superman (anche se io purtroppo faccio fatica a crederlo....)

Tipicalmente italiano. In Norvegia, il mio paese, crediamo anche nei politici ed i giornalisti  ;)


Translation: Typically Italian. In Norway, my country, we also believe in politicians and journalists
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

- Marco Pierre White

Offline Antilife

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2963 on: March 06, 2016, 03:52:13 PM »
Ahha...... si purtroppo ci demarca la cosa.... ma ripeto... solo per il primo giorno di lavoro.. Adesso sono cosciente che potrebbe farci anche i lanci della pizza

Translation: AHHA ... .. Unfortunately there marks the thing ... but then again ... only for the first day of work. Now I am aware that could make us even pizza rolls

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2964 on: March 06, 2016, 04:23:29 PM »
Antilife, incontriamoci a Modena...... cosi' tu ed Omid scambiate ricette e metodologia di pizza, mentre io assaggio e poi in ricambio andiamo all'autodromo e vi insegno come guidare una macchina da corsa in pista...... ;D

Translation: Antilife, meet me in Modena ... so you and Omid exchanged recipes and methodology of pizza while I taste and then we go to the racetrack and in return teach you how to drive a race car on the track
Paolo

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Offline Antilife

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2965 on: March 06, 2016, 04:59:09 PM »
Antilife, incontriamoci a Modena...... cosi' tu ed Omid scambiate ricette e metodologia di pizza, mentre io assaggio e poi in ricambio andiamo all'autodromo e vi insegno come guidare una macchina da corsa in pista...... ;D

Noi del Pizza Dream Team già le facciamo!!! ti puoi unire quando vuoi
Chiedo scusa ad Omid perche' ho rivisto ora il Video e mi sono accorto che il piano e' in legno, quindi si puo' tranquillamente fare anche per i neofiti ad alte idro e piene di condimenti

Us of Pizza Dream Team already do this Events!! You can join when you want.
I apologize to Omid 'cause I've seen again the video, and now I realized that the plan is wood, so you can easily move the dough  high hydros and full of toppings ...even for beginners


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2966 on: March 06, 2016, 07:34:36 PM »
English please.

Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2967 on: March 07, 2016, 01:39:44 PM »
.

Offline fagilia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2968 on: March 07, 2016, 03:39:58 PM »
We have had several Neapolitan guys in our restaurant and they and also we have no problem with hydration of 70%. I think all memebers almost could handle our dough. It is not that sticky since we made it not so sticky by adjusting variables. I think for a beginner in our restaurant they have a easier time working with weak dough than with strong that needs many slaps.
My opinion so far.
And also is it really common knowledge that wood is better for high hydration than steel/aluminum?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 03:41:37 PM by fagilia »

Offline Antilife

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A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2969 on: March 07, 2016, 03:54:48 PM »
Guys, i remember that here in italy work with Flours extremly weak. Personally i use Pivetti Papavero (W230) and the max hydro i reach for working well is 65%. After months of trying i used a lot of flours for Napoletana and reach hydros of 70 and 80% but for classical Neapolitan pizza is senseless. American flour are extremly more strength and absorb a lot of water.This means that a 65 italian weak flour is egual a 70/75 with American flours. And remember all that the old pizza makers use 55% of hydro, and only the new generation use high hydros with mix of Tipo1/2  (more dusts) or integral flour that absorb more water. With caputo and 5Stagioni you can easily reach 75% hydro but are not pure flours... these blends use additive but pizza is good. With Pivetti Flour all changes.... less absorbion but more taste and only italian grain without additives or foreign grains. For a beginner use a 67% hydros with Italian flour on a marble tables is not so easily move the dough, but at this point i think that are us italian that we find hard at beginning work with high hydros.

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Offline Don Luigi

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2970 on: March 07, 2016, 05:19:09 PM »
For what it's worth Caputo Pizzeria and 5 Stagioni are completely different flours and especially totally different in the way they absorb water. 62% Caputo Pizzeria is about 67% 5 Stagioni. 5 Stagioni is similiar to many german flours. I also don't share the obsession with high Hydration for Neapolitan Pizza. It's one factor of many. It is important sure but one shouldn't concentrate on it as it would be the only factor making a great Neapolitan Pizza.
On a neapolitan pizza journey with Wood fired oven Pizza Party 70x70
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Offline Antilife

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A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2971 on: March 07, 2016, 06:49:37 PM »
For what it's worth Caputo Pizzeria and 5 Stagioni are completely different flours and especially totally different in the way they absorb water. 62% Caputo Pizzeria is about 67% 5 Stagioni. 5 Stagioni is similiar to many german flours. I also don't share the obsession with high Hydration for Neapolitan Pizza. It's one factor of many. It is important sure but one shouldn't concentrate on it as it would be the only factor making a great Neapolitan Pizza.
I quote all your words. Neapolitan pizza does not need of high hydros, but rights maturation. You must enhance hydro to gain time for maturation or lievition but these factors change in function of product you want to cook. Pizza Napoletana, Teglia Classica,Teglia Romana, Pala, al Metro.... all different pizzas with needs  completly different(flours , hydro, starters and oil/fat) ...

Offline fagilia

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2972 on: March 08, 2016, 08:44:02 AM »
Not saying high hydro is the best just that it is totally possible.
Yesterday i used a bag of molino pizzutti tradizione napoletano with w 220 for 70% hydro and its ok to. Only 10% Protein.
If one person want his/hers dough to be with high hydration then it would be totally nessecary for his/hers dough.
My belief is that are no right or wrong just personal preference.
But I do believe it is possible to make a pizza with no problem that has high hydro even with italian flours.



Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2973 on: March 09, 2016, 07:16:30 PM »
Guys, what's the difference between direct & straight dough?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2974 on: March 09, 2016, 07:17:59 PM »
Guys, what's the difference between direct & straight dough?

Same thing.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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Offline Pulcinella

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2975 on: March 09, 2016, 07:37:58 PM »
Same thing.

Thx Craig. Forgot to ask what straight/direct dough mean.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2976 on: March 09, 2016, 09:16:06 PM »
A straight/direct dough is one where all the ingredients are mixed in a single step.

An indirect dough is one that is made in several steps as with a biga or poolish.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline sub

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2977 on: March 15, 2016, 08:09:37 PM »
Please, never hesitate to share such informative videos with us. Good day!

Dear Omid, Here's another one



Guillaume Grasso has a dream: opening the best pizzeria in Paris. At 24 years, he went to Naples, the birthplace of pizza to learn the trade: ten days of training in the best school of pizza maker in town. Will Guillaume succeed in becoming the 30th pizzaiolo of his family, and walk in the footsteps of his grandfather, a Neapolitan immigrant living in Paris since the 50's ?


« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 06:10:35 AM by sub »

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2978 on: March 23, 2016, 05:50:52 AM »
A straight/direct dough is one where all the ingredients are mixed in a single step.

An indirect dough is one that is made in several steps as with a biga or poolish.

Dear Craig, take a look at Roberto Caporuscio’s video, particularly between time-marks 7:46 and 8:18.



I transcribed the segment as best as I could:

"So we take the dough out of the machine and put it up here and let it stay for 1 hour. Let it relax; the gluten is very tight. There are two different ways you're gonna make. You do with this dough diretto [direct]. Indiretto [indirect], so double fermentation. For example, in my place in the city, we do double fermentation because we do not have a cooler; so we do double rise, indiretto. This one, here, I recommend all the time, most of the time, for new place to do the diretto."

In the video, Roberto seems to use the term "direct [dough]" in a different way: making dough balls after a short rest after mixing is done. (By "different" I am not implying that he necessarily overrules the common definition of the term.) Further, he seems to equate "indirect [dough]" with "double fermentation/rise".

I have noticed that in some contexts some pizzaioli mean different things by "direct dough" and "straight dough", that they differentiate one from the other. I wish I could remember where I had come across such instances so I could cite them here.

In any case, such pizzaioli differentiate between the two by stipulating that "direct dough" is a process that takes place before dough mixing is completed, whereas "straight dough" is a post-mix process. They seem to define "direct dough" as you did, i.e., a process of mixing all the dough ingredients (water, salt, fermentative agent, and flour) in one single session, which strictly precludes using any preferments. I do not know if this excludes the use of old dough as well. Moreover, they seem to define "straight dough" as a process wherein dough balls are individuated from dough mass either straightaway or subsequent to a short rest period after mixing is over.

It is a bit confusing. I understand there are no fixed conventions of defining the terms used in baking. As a result, a term may take on various meanings in different contexts. Good day!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 02:35:48 AM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: A PHILOSOPHY OF PIZZA NAPOLETANISMO!
« Reply #2979 on: March 23, 2016, 05:59:31 AM »
Dear Omid, Here's another one

Guillaume Grasso has a dream: opening the best pizzeria in Paris. At 24 years, he went to Naples, the birthplace of pizza to learn the trade: ten days of training in the best school of pizza maker in town. Will Guillaume succeed in becoming the 30th pizzaiolo of his family, and walk in the footsteps of his grandfather, a Neapolitan immigrant living in Paris since the 50's ?

Dear Sub, thank you for posting the video. Have a great day!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

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