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Offline dinogoesrawr

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Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« on: September 05, 2017, 01:45:58 PM »
Hi!

I was reading this: https://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php

And had a few questions regarding the dough:

1. What kind of pan is best to cook in i.e. it mentions 14' width but not depth. 25mm? 50mm? Something else? I need to buy a pan from Amazon hence asking.
2. Is "bread flour" = "strong white bread flour" (I am in the UK hence not sure).
3. Is "low-fat powdered milk" = "powdered skimmed milk".
4. Can you knead by hand as I don't have a machine (only a blender).

And the sauce:
I keep seeing 'tomato tin' or similar but in the UK we don't have this. We have tomato puree but I'm unsure if that is the same thing. The spices are easy :)

And the cheese:
Is just mozzarella grated sufficient and do the vegetables go ontop or underneath? 

Thanks in advance!

Offline IndyJoe

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2017, 12:16:53 PM »
1) I've bought several "deep-dish" pans. Two really good ones are 1: Lloyd Pans 14" x 2" PSTK pan (PSTK = Pre-Seasoned Tuff-Kote, and is supposedly the best non-stick coating); 2: Chicago Metallic Professional Non-Stick 14". I also have a "blue-steel" deep dish pizza pan that's great too.

(I don't know if I can link directly to Amazon on here, but if you search for PSTK pan, and deep dish pizza pan, these will come up.

2) Strong white bread flour will work fine

3) Most pizza recipes I've seen that call for powered milk use non-fat, which is basically the same as skimmed. I've also seen powered whole-milk. I'm honestly not sure if this makes a difference at 3 tablespoons. At that amount, I believe it's just for better browning of the crust.

4) You don't "knead" a mixer. It just makes it easier. :)

Sorry, but I've never heard of tomato tin, but crushed tomatoes, tomato puree, and whole peeled tomatoes (ran through a blender) are all fine. I'm not sure if they ship to the UK, but there are a ton of great crushed tomatoes available on Amazon.

Grated Mozzarella is good.

Pizza Hut is weird. Maybe someone else can chime in, but in almost all of their pizzas, the veggies are on top, but it's never consistent. I wonder if they occasionally just add a little more cheese after putting on the toppings because sometimes it seems like the toppings are mixed in with, or even beneath the cheese. All their promotional photos show the veggies on top though.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 06:51:04 PM by IndyJoe »

Offline dinogoesrawr

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 01:51:48 PM »
Amazing - thanks!

I am making my first attempt today.

1. I found that pan on but in the UK it is like 300 bucks haha.

2. Perfect.

3. Got ya. I found semi-skimmed milk powder so am using this.

4. Perfect. Did it by hand.

5. Got it on tomato/mozzarella. Just wasn't sure what they used so I could buy something similar. I added all the spices as per the other thread.

Question - I notice you have to let the dough sit for 1-1.5 hours. Are you supposed to then put the toppings on directly and cook it or roll it up and roll it out again? It said to cover it, but if you leave it in the oven (under 'proving') then do you need to cover it?

I'm following this:
Dough: http://mobile.pizzarecipes101.com/pizzeria/pizza-hut-pan-pizza-recipe.htm
Sauce: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39523.msg484501#msg484501

Offline IndyJoe

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 05:36:02 PM »
$300?!?!  :o

You may have clicked on the one for a "set" of 12? Here's the link for the one I've purchased, which is $26.71 in the US.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MU7U2EO/?tag=pmak-20

As far as the dough is concerned, you want to let it rise then put the toppings on directly and cook. Don't roll it out again (not sure why you're rolling in the first place, especially for a deep dish? just take it out after the dough ball doubles, and press it out by hand into the pan - this will keep all the great sponginess of the dough). When I make deep dish, what I generally do is put the oil in the pan (the recipe you linked to says 3oz per pan), lay the top of the dough down first, and then flip it over. That way I get a nice coating of oil on the top as well, so it doesn't dry out when it's rising. I actually have a cover for my pan, but I've also used cling-wrap. I wouldn't use a towel. If you're going to use your proofing (prooving?) oven, it probably won't take 1 to 1.5 hours. I would say 45 min to an hour.

The recipe also calls for vegetable oil, but I think Pizza Hut uses Canola oil. I use canola or olive oil (and buttered flavored shortening - yum). Old school Pizza Hut used to use a ton of oil, and what made the crust so good was that it was almost like it was deep-fried in oil, but they don't really do that anymore. Plus, I think their dough comes frozen now, and it used to be made fresh daily.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 05:41:27 PM by IndyJoe »

Offline dinogoesrawr

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2017, 05:28:29 AM »
I made 2 attempts, it turned out okay, but I had the following issues.

1. Sauce: I followed the recipie here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39523.msg484501#msg484501 but the sauce tasted kind of sour and not sweet like Pizza Hut sauce does. Did I use the wrong recipie?

2. Toppings: The first time I put the sauce, then cheese, then toppings right to the edge. The second time I left a crust. With pizza hut the crust comes up and there is a small dip where the cheese is. Mine bakes more like a cake.

3. Dough: I kneeded by hand as I don't have a mixer (but have purchased one now). I followed the recipie here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php. First I let the dough set after rolling it out and it didn't rise much at all. The second half I let rise in a closed saucepan and that rose well but was too thick (I had to roll that out and then bake as the first half didn't rise at all). The second time I tried it, I let the whole batter rise, rolled it out into a bigger pan, but when I tried to press it against the edges like you mentioned below, it just kept coming back "in". The second time I used 2/3rds of the dough recipe for a 12" tin and it still felt a bit thicker than the normal pizza hut and the bottom got a little burnt.

The taste is good so I'm getting there. Just these few tweaks it seems I need to make to make it perfect :)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2017, 09:18:21 AM »
I made 2 attempts, it turned out okay, but I had the following issues.

1. Sauce: I followed the recipie here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39523.msg484501#msg484501 but the sauce tasted kind of sour and not sweet like Pizza Hut sauce does. Did I use the wrong recipie?

dinogoesawr,

Is this the basic PH clone sauce recipe you used?:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4452.msg37133#msg37133

Over the years, it is quite likely that PH has made changes to its sauce so their current sauce may taste different. So, I did a quick search to see if I could find a current ingredients list showing what goes into their red sauces. The first document below is dated 2014 and the second document is a 2017 document but for Canada. There are a couple red sauces, one of which includes sugar (Natural Old World Sauce). The other does not. It contains only Tomato Paste, Water, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder and Citric Acid.

https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf

https://www.pizzahut.ca/ingredients

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 08:52:13 PM »
The recipe also calls for vegetable oil, but I think Pizza Hut uses Canola oil. I use canola or olive oil (and buttered flavored shortening - yum). Old school Pizza Hut used to use a ton of oil, and what made the crust so good was that it was almost like it was deep-fried in oil, but they don't really do that anymore. Plus, I think their dough comes frozen now, and it used to be made fresh daily.

Good luck!
IndyJoy,

You can get a pretty good ideas as to the oils used in the Pizza Hut doughs and in the pans from the two documents I cited in my last post.

Peter

Offline IndyJoe

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 09:39:01 AM »
IndyJoy,

You can get a pretty good ideas as to the oils used in the Pizza Hut doughs and in the pans from the two documents I cited in my last post.

Peter

So, soybean, vegetable, canola, & cottonseed oils?  :D

Offline IndyJoe

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 10:09:35 AM »
I made 2 attempts, it turned out okay, but I had the following issues.

1. Sauce: I followed the recipie here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39523.msg484501#msg484501 but the sauce tasted kind of sour and not sweet like Pizza Hut sauce does. Did I use the wrong recipie?

2. Toppings: The first time I put the sauce, then cheese, then toppings right to the edge. The second time I left a crust. With pizza hut the crust comes up and there is a small dip where the cheese is. Mine bakes more like a cake.

3. Dough: I kneeded by hand as I don't have a mixer (but have purchased one now). I followed the recipie here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php. First I let the dough set after rolling it out and it didn't rise much at all. The second half I let rise in a closed saucepan and that rose well but was too thick (I had to roll that out and then bake as the first half didn't rise at all). The second time I tried it, I let the whole batter rise, rolled it out into a bigger pan, but when I tried to press it against the edges like you mentioned below, it just kept coming back "in". The second time I used 2/3rds of the dough recipe for a 12" tin and it still felt a bit thicker than the normal pizza hut and the bottom got a little burnt.

The taste is good so I'm getting there. Just these few tweaks it seems I need to make to make it perfect :)

As far as the sauce is concerned, it will depend a lot on the type of tomatoes you're using. With some crushed tomatoes, I need to add a pinch or two of sugar, whereas with others they're almost too sweet, so you might try different brands, and adjust by taste. Also, you should mix your spices in a day or two ahead, which will help enhance and balance the flavor.

Dough is tricky to try and stretch out into an oiled pan. I know Pizza Hut used to use a huge bottle of oil (I'm still convinced it was canola, but whatever) with a pump, and they would pump 3 or 4 times into the pan (which I think equaled around 3oz), but now I think they use a spray (like Pam). Regardless, after you've allowed your dough to double in size, you can stretch it by hand on your counter (like you're making a hand tossed/NY style pizza) before putting it into the pan. As I mentioned before, I usually put mine top side down first, and then flip it over, but I know Pizza Hut now sprays the tops of theirs with oil.

Another trick is to spread out the dough in the pan, then wait about 10 minutes, and then try again. This will relax the dough, and it's easier to stretch. The weight of the sauce and toppings should be enough to create the dip you're talking about between the toppings and crust. The outer crust should puff up a bit during the bake as well. It's my understanding that Pizza Hut uses a 22oz (623g) dough ball for their 14" pan.

Strangely, one thing I just read yesterday while looking for a thin-&-crispy clone recipe is that supposedly Pizza Hut would use their dough sheeter for their pan dough as well. They would just run it through once, so I guess I was wrong about rolling it out. That said, I think that's more for convenience/consistency than results.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 10:13:02 AM by IndyJoe »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 10:19:00 AM »
So, soybean, vegetable, canola, & cottonseed oils?  :D
IndyJoe,

I don't recall when PH went from fresh doughs to frozen doughs in their stores but the oldest PH ingredients statements that I am aware of is this 2004 document at:

http://www.espanol.pizzahut.com/menu/nutritioninfo/documents/ph_ingredients.pdf.

And, back then, it looks like PH used soybean and/or cottonseed oil in their doughs. There is no listing of pan release agents in the above document so my guess is that PH just used regular vegetable oils for that purpose. And, from what former members who worked for PH informed us, they used a ton of oil in the pans to create that "fried" bottom crust effect.

These days, PH uses pan release agents, as noted in more recent ingredients statements such as the one at https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf that calls for Soybean Oil, Lecithin, Propellant. That is as plain and basic a release agent as you can get. These days, pan release agents can get quite fancy. While I was in the supermarket yesterday I made a point to check out pan release agents. For example, the Original Pam release agent includes canola, palm and coconut oils (and a propellant, of course). To be sure, such release agents can be more basic, such as using just olive oil (including extra virgin olive oil), canola oil, or soybean oil (usually called vegetable oil on the can). I doubt that PH is going to use anything that costs real money.

Peter

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Offline IndyJoe

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »
IndyJoe,

I don't recall when PH went from fresh doughs to frozen doughs in their stores but the oldest PH ingredients statements that I am aware of is this 2004 document at:

http://www.espanol.pizzahut.com/menu/nutritioninfo/documents/ph_ingredients.pdf.

And, back then, it looks like PH used soybean and/or cottonseed oil in their doughs. There is no listing of pan release agents in the above document so my guess is that PH just used regular vegetable oils for that purpose. And, from what former members who worked for PH informed us, they used a ton of oil in the pans to create that "fried" bottom crust effect.

These days, PH uses pan release agents, as noted in more recent ingredients statements such as the one at https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf that calls for Soybean Oil, Lecithin, Propellant. That is as plain and basic a release agent as you can get. These days, pan release agents can get quite fancy. While I was in the supermarket yesterday I made a point to check out pan release agents. For example, the Original Pam release agent includes canola, palm and coconut oils. To be sure, such release agents can be more basic, such as using just olive oil (including extra virgin olive oil), canola oil, or soybean oil (usually called vegetable oil on the can). I doubt that PH is going to use anything that costs real money.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the information. Their ingredient list is a bit confusing. Their "Fresh" dough ingredient list shows the pan release agent, but their "Frozen" dough ingredient list doesn't. It has 4 different types of oils listed. I imagine the Soybean and Cottonseed are used in the dough, and either Soybean or Canola is used for the pan, but maybe I'm wrong. I've read from different "cooks" that used to work there that they used to use Canola that was pumped into the pan (in large quantities  :D), but now they use a spray?

I imagine you're right though, and they probably just use whatever's cheapest.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:13:39 AM by IndyJoe »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 11:08:47 AM »
IndyJoe,

I agree, it is a bit confusing. The frozen dough does list Canola And/Or Soybean Oil at the end of the ingredients for the frozen dough, in the same location as for the fresh dough. And, under the OILS section of the document at https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf, the Vegetable Oil is listed as Canola Oil or Soybean Oil, Dimethylpolysiloxane (Antifoaming Agent). Yesterday, when I looked at the spray can for vegetable oil (soybean), which included soybean oil and soy lecithin, there was also an antifoaming agent. I did not think to write down the specific antifoaming agent used, but maybe what PH is using for its frozen dough is a similar spray in a can.

Peter

Offline dinogoesrawr

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 02:09:35 PM »
For the sauce: I made a batch on Friday, cooked half on Friday, and it was a nice taste. It was tomato puree, water, sugar, little salt, garlic salt, basil and the M spice. I then added a little bit of tomato puree and mixed on Saturday, and the sauce tasted very salty and pretty horrible. That is why I couldnt figure out what to do. Also, when spreading the sauce, how do you ensure a rim? Mine always goes over despite using a spoon. Tomato puree and chopped tomatoes also give a different thickness hence I am curious what to choose. Also, no cooking it?

For the base: you mention to roll it out / flatten it out in the pan, then let it rest/cover with cling film, let it rise, put sauce/cheese/toppings on and bake away. I tried a few things:
1. put the dough in the oven under the proving setting. the dough became hard as a rock and i threw it away.
2. put the dough in a saucepan and close the lid, leaving it out at room temperature. after 1.5 hours, i rolled it out, put it in the pan, immediately cooked with toppings. taste was good but it was really thick and i didnt get the dip (probably because i filled everything to the edge).
3. rolled the dough, put in the pan, covered and let it rise at room temperature. it didn't rise much at all. i then flattened it a little more, sauce/toppings, cooked. it did rise and cooked well (almost burnt tbh at the base) but i think the sauce was off this time. the dough was okay but not quite as soft and bread-y as pizza hut. I used the proper pizza pans for the above too.

All tips are welcome here :) I brought a bread mixer now. How thin are you supposed to even roll it so it is not paper thin but not too thick either. Please see the pic below of what I normally get when I order.

I dont get the dots on the side like in this pic for example: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/ef/71/d1/ef71d1fb474828a86103fb89c108277c--pizza-hut-crust-pizza-hut-recipe.jpg
I have had cheese/tomato pizza so many times from them and their sauce is definitely not what I made. Very curious what to do to get it like that. Also, I used normal grated mozerella from the supermarket, but it didn't 'string' like their pizza does :(
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 02:27:43 PM by dinogoesrawr »

Offline IndyJoe

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 05:00:21 PM »
For the sauce: I made a batch on Friday, cooked half on Friday, and it was a nice taste. It was tomato puree, water, sugar, little salt, garlic salt, basil and the M spice. I then added a little bit of tomato puree and mixed on Saturday, and the sauce tasted very salty and pretty horrible. That is why I couldnt figure out what to do. Also, when spreading the sauce, how do you ensure a rim? Mine always goes over despite using a spoon. Tomato puree and chopped tomatoes also give a different thickness hence I am curious what to choose. Also, no cooking it?

For the base: you mention to roll it out / flatten it out in the pan, then let it rest/cover with cling film, let it rise, put sauce/cheese/toppings on and bake away. I tried a few things:
1. put the dough in the oven under the proving setting. the dough became hard as a rock and i threw it away.
2. put the dough in a saucepan and close the lid, leaving it out at room temperature. after 1.5 hours, i rolled it out, put it in the pan, immediately cooked with toppings. taste was good but it was really thick and i didnt get the dip (probably because i filled everything to the edge).
3. rolled the dough, put in the pan, covered and let it rise at room temperature. it didn't rise much at all. i then flattened it a little more, sauce/toppings, cooked. it did rise and cooked well (almost burnt tbh at the base) but i think the sauce was off this time. the dough was okay but not quite as soft and bread-y as pizza hut. I used the proper pizza pans for the above too.

All tips are welcome here :) I brought a bread mixer now. How thin are you supposed to even roll it so it is not paper thin but not too thick either. Please see the pic below of what I normally get when I order.

I dont get the dots on the side like in this pic for example: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/ef/71/d1/ef71d1fb474828a86103fb89c108277c--pizza-hut-crust-pizza-hut-recipe.jpg
I have had cheese/tomato pizza so many times from them and their sauce is definitely not what I made. Very curious what to do to get it like that. Also, I used normal grated mozerella from the supermarket, but it didn't 'string' like their pizza does :(

Perhaps someone else can chime in to help, but it sounds like you're headed in the right direction.

I would try to hand/push stretch the dough, instead of rolling. You're going to get a lighter/airier crust. You say you flattened after you let it rise in the pan. I wouldn't do that, but if you do "dock" the dough, don't press the outer edge where you want the crust rim.

I wouldn't cook the sauce.

There was a topic on here regarding the "stringyness" of various cheeses, but I can't find it. One thing is that Pizza Hut uses a ton of cheese. I think it's 2 or 3 cups per 14" pan. The more cheese = more "string".

Sorry if I haven't been much help.

Offline dinogoesrawr

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Re: Pizza Hut Dough and Sauce
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 02:11:26 PM »
You have been a huge help :)

Understood on the sauce / cheese. I will try again with more cheese and not cooking the sauce.

For the dough, I tend to roll it out into a circle, put in the pan, then pull it out and pat to get it more even. Otherwise its tough to covert a ball into a flat dough right. How thick should it be in say a 14" pan? I think perhaps I'm still keeping the dough too thick therefore its more like a bread vs pizza (as so far my base rises to the top of the pan). I will try your tip about the rim in the next iteration.

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