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Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 497943 times)

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Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1300 on: September 01, 2017, 12:52:02 PM »
My latest

BBQ sauce,  swedish meatballs (part pork part beef)  chicken strips and pepperoni yeah weird combo but I liked it.


My pizza's always come out looking rather messy and quite a few big air bubbles I docked it like crazy!


Cooked for about 5 1/2 minutes       using a pizza screen on steel for about 4 minutes, then taking it of for 1 1/2 mins directly on steel. Whethr or not  there's any point in  1 1/2 minute direct contact with steel  I don't know but the bottom is nicely browned and slightly crisp.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1301 on: September 01, 2017, 08:04:00 PM »
Matt,

Overall, how did you like the pizza, and was the crust to your liking, or anything like a PJ pizza crust as sold in the UK?

Peter

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1302 on: September 01, 2017, 08:53:40 PM »
Matt,

Overall, how did you like the pizza, and was the crust to your liking, or anything like a PJ pizza crust as sold in the UK?

Peter


Believe it or not I haven't had the pleasure of having a Papa Johns in the UK.   So I don't know how it compared to the likes of Dominos or Pizza Hut by judging by how they look they do look superior.

I use your Papa John's clone pizza as it makes a good American style pizza which is what I wanted to replicate a takeaway pizza at home.   



The dough tasted good but to be honest it's more about the taste of toppings that interest me.  Places like Dominos and Pizza Hut have very bland dough that taste no better than a 1 room hour fermentation dough to me..   


I  use a  5 hour room fermentation I find this easy to work with there is maybe 0.5c difference in temp between those times in my house.   Usually 1pm to 6pm.




I wasn't sure what to do for BBQ sauce in the UK it seems like a lot of effort to make your own compared to how easy it is to make a tomato sauce so I ended up using some cheap HP (owned by Heinz) honey woodsmoked BBQ sauce that worked rather well as it was mild and sweet.


Offline 00rgiles

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1303 on: September 02, 2017, 06:57:10 AM »

Believe it or not I haven't had the pleasure of having a Papa Johns in the UK.   So I don't know how it compared to the likes of Dominos or Pizza Hut by judging by how they look they do look superior.

I use your Papa John's clone pizza as it makes a good American style pizza which is what I wanted to replicate a takeaway pizza at home.   



The dough tasted good but to be honest it's more about the taste of toppings that interest me.  Places like Dominos and Pizza Hut have very bland dough that taste no better than a 1 room hour fermentation dough to me..   


I  use a  5 hour room fermentation I find this easy to work with there is maybe 0.5c difference in temp between those times in my house.   Usually 1pm to 6pm.




I wasn't sure what to do for BBQ sauce in the UK it seems like a lot of effort to make your own compared to how easy it is to make a tomato sauce so I ended up using some cheap HP (owned by Heinz) honey woodsmoked BBQ sauce that worked rather well as it was mild and sweet.


That looks great mate, so 5 hours at room temp? Do you do any overnight or days bulk fermenting or just a simple 5 hour rise/ferment from when you made the dough? I'm just try to see whether you have tried any cold fermentation?

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1304 on: September 02, 2017, 09:59:27 AM »

That looks great mate, so 5 hours at room temp? Do you do any overnight or days bulk fermenting or just a simple 5 hour rise/ferment from when you made the dough? I'm just try to see whether you have tried any cold fermentation?


Yes 5 hours.
I knead the dough, put it in a container and put it somewhere the temp is usually more consistent then let it rise for 5 hours. I usually check after 4.   



Yeah I tried cold fermentation 48 hours but I  had issues like not being able to shape it easily despite giving the dough time to warm up at room temp.  I'm  also not so sure it had enough time to rise remember there can be quite a  difference in fridge temps.  I should really measure the temp of my fridge (it can be adjusted)   then set it to the same as what Pete-zza's 48 hour fridge uses.





« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 10:03:46 AM by MadMatt »

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Offline Kreetak

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1305 on: September 03, 2017, 11:07:09 AM »
I don't know where to begin.

As you know, I could tried a new recipe with VWG, thanks to Peter. But pizza doesn't been meet my expectations. (probably by my own mistakes)
- Crust wasn't soft. Was too crispy and "hard". My husband said me that remembers it a rustic pizza; not even close a PJ pizza.
- Seems IDY didn't work. Too thin and compact dough.

- My new mozzarella sucks  :'( No blended, only toasted (?)

I'm dissapointed with myself and my pizza. :-\

PS: I followed the same procedure that I use with all my pizzas BUT with PJ style The dough doesn't rest in a pan until bake like Detroit/Sicilian/Greek
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 11:11:09 AM by Kreetak »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1306 on: September 03, 2017, 11:22:59 AM »
Kreetak,

I'm sorry the new recipe with the VWG didn't meet your needs. I agree that your pizza does not look like a PJ pizza. Can you tell me how you baked the pizza and for how long? Also, did the dough rise noticeably through its fermentation?

Peter

Offline Kreetak

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1307 on: September 03, 2017, 11:29:20 AM »
Peter,
I preheated the oven 15 min approx. Then I baked like always I do. First I put the pizza on the bottom about 8 min. then I move it at the top 2 min max.

Obviously I did something wrong

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1308 on: September 03, 2017, 01:13:31 PM »
Peter,
I preheated the oven 15 min approx. Then I baked like always I do. First I put the pizza on the bottom about 8 min. then I move it at the top 2 min max.

Obviously I did something wrong
Kreetak,

Did you use a pizza screen or was it a stone or a baking steel? And did the dough rise while it fermented?

Peter

Offline Kreetak

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1309 on: September 03, 2017, 03:47:58 PM »
Kreetak,

Did you use a pizza screen or was it a stone or a baking steel? And did the dough rise while it fermented?

Peter

I use a regular pan pizza like the photo. And the second question, the answer is not much, only a few little bubbles on the bottom.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 03:49:41 PM by Kreetak »

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1310 on: September 03, 2017, 05:02:06 PM »
Kreetak,

For purposes of this response, I am going to assume that, unless your IDY was dead at the outset, it should have worked for the duration of the cold ferment even though it was only 0.22%. Sometimes that can mean few bubbles during the cold fermentation but they usually start to appear in large numbers when the dough is allowed to warm up for about an hour or two at room temperature before using.

I am beginning to think that your pan was at fault, taken together with the brief warmup of your oven. By way of background, in practice, PJ uses either screens or dark anodized perforated disks. For many years, PJ used only screens but it has gradually migrated toward perforated disks. You can see what such a perforated disk looks like at https://www.amnow.com/product-category/superperf-disks/. Unfortunately, while perforated disks appear to work well in PJ's conveyor ovens, in my experience they do not work particularly well in my standard home oven. They are prone to warping or buckling at the desired oven bake temperature, and the bottom crust development is not as good as with screens in my home oven because it takes time for the disks to reach the necessary bake temperature before good crust development can take place. Also, the oven spring is not as good. Unfortunately, using a solid disk as you did will produce even worse results. I suspect that you would have done better using a pizza stone even though I do not recommend such use if one has a pizza screen but at least one will get pretty decent oven spring as the cold skin hits the hot stone. Of course, it will be necessary to watch the bottom crust so that it does not brown prematurely or even burn. I believe that some members have tried using baking steels but I do not recall how successful they have been doing so. One still has to watch the bottom of the pizza to make sure that it doesn't brown prematurely or burn because of the high sugar levels.

Your results remind me of what one typically gets by baking many types of frozen pizzas. Usually, the instructions call for preheating the oven to around 450 degrees F (about 232 degrees C). The frozen pizza is then placed on an oven rack at about the middle of the oven or on an unheated pan that is placed on a rack at the middle of the oven. It then takes about 17-21 minutes, depending on the type of pizza and the selected bake method, to bake the pizza. What you end up with is a crust that looks a lot like the crust of your most recent pizza. Some pizzas may have a raised rim but usually that is because a chemical leavening agent is used in the pizza, either alone or maybe in combination with yeast. My greatest criticism of frozen pizzas--at least the several brands I have tried to date--is that the crusts are usually hard and stiff, not soft. Even the rims can be hard although some of the crusts with chemical leavening can be on the soft side, but almost like cotton. And the crust flavors are subpar--nothing like you can get using a freshly made cold fermented dough using yeast rather than baking powders. I torture myself by sampling these pizzas in the name of science and to add to my body of pizza making knowledge. :-D

If you can get around your disk and oven problem, I think the recipe I gave you should work. I'm not sure whether I can modify it for use on an unperforated disk and produce a credible PJ clone. You need a combination of adequate yeast, adequate hydration and a lot of bottom heat to get a decent oven spring and a resulting softness in the finished crust. Preheating your solid disk might help but I would not want to recommend that for safety reasons.

You shouldn't be too hard on yourself. I have seen your pizzas and you are an above average pizza maker, especially given your degree of experience and also because you are in Spain and have to be creative in adapting our recipes to whatever ingredients and equipment you have at your disposal.

Peter




Offline Kreetak

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1311 on: September 04, 2017, 03:25:02 PM »
Peter,

I will give another try this week with the same recipe. Hope to see better results, but I do all my round pizzas in the same oven and the same pan. The only thing it's that you comment; the yeast.

And you are right, my husband said the same thing about the frozen pizza!

Thanks for all of your posts. It's a pleasure to read you, always I'm learning something from you!

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1312 on: September 07, 2017, 04:33:07 PM »
I always seem to have something go wrong with my pizza now and again.


Today after 4 mins with the pizza screen on steel I opened the oven door to check it

The back half of the pizza was well done on top, but the front half pale. Obviously its not getting even heat, but I had the oven setup just as I had on my previous pizza that came out great.



I took the pizza out to turn it, but it got stuck and tore with lots of cheese, oils and bbq sauce going everywhere.


I managed to clean it up and put it back in the oven but after total cook time the bottom of the pizza was totally PALE and undercooked

This makes no sense as I read the temp of the steel and it was closing around 270c near launch...





I have a possible theory for the uneven cooking on top.  I put the steel on the top shelf instead of middle, and it takes up a lot of the oven so it must be blocking the heat air flow too much.   But I did this exactly with my last picture you can see I posted at the start on this page. Why did it happen this time but not last time?


The underocoked bottom is a mystery to me. Granted because of the tear I never put the pizza directly on steel this time, it should have cooked more than that.  Previous pizza's I always check the bottom when I take it out to both turn and put directly on steel and it's always a light brown.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 04:36:00 PM by MadMatt »

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1313 on: September 08, 2017, 10:12:08 PM »
Seems kind of silly to put a pizza screen on top of steel when its meant to put directly on it, but if you have good results and its easier then why not? personally I always loved the bumpy texture you get with the screen. 

I might go back to using parchment paper and perforate (I saw someone do this on another website)

The problem I have with the screen is it always get a little stuck on there especially with heavy toppings.

Maybe a perforated pan would work better.

Or I could go back to using parchment paper on steel. I saw this tip on another site they cut lots of little holes in the parchment paper to perforate it.


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