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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2120 on: August 19, 2016, 08:42:12 PM »
Mack's has been my favorite pizza since I was little and I look forward to it every summer! I'm super excited and have spent a few hours on this thread the last two days and can't wait to start trying! (I currently have my first attempt at three glutenboy doughs sitting in the fridge I have to eat first!) Every time I think I have the formulation to try I find another. I will have to find a nice cheddar cheese to try and since I cant find where I can buy gangi sauce I will have to try the walmart blend norma makes. As for the dough I was thinking of trying the formation from reply 307 (with the process from coming from reply 104) from pete unless someone has one further along. Ill await the reply from norma for now! picture is from a few weeks ago

ncarrocino,

Sorry I didn't reply to your post.  Things have been hectic this week. 

Glad to hear Mack's has been your favorite pizza since you were little, and you still look forward to it every summer.  The cracker barrel white sharp cheddar seems like it comes the closest to Mack's cheddar than can be found at the retail level. 

Will be interested in your results!

Anymore questions just ask.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2121 on: August 19, 2016, 08:47:02 PM »
Norma, Peter,

You both are incredible!  Thank you for pulling all of this information together, I really appreciate it and can't wait to give it a try. I'll give the sauce you recommended a try too, and if in the meantime you come across the recipe/proportions paper, please post it as well.

I have a Jenn-Air electric oven. We just moved in to this home, so I haven't had an opportunity to see how hot it actually gets. I have a large stone and a peel, so we'll see how it all turns out.

Again, thank you! When I get an opportunity to make the pizza, I'll post photos here.

David

David,

When I find time I will look for the paper that has the amounts of ingredients that used to be in the sauce at Mack's.  I just saw it the other week, but don't know what I did with it.  I still won't be able to scale it down. 

Sounds like your Jenn-Air electric oven would be good for a Mack's pizza. 

If there are anymore question just ask.

Will be looking forward to how you Mack's pizza turns out.

Norma

Offline R2-Bayou

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2122 on: August 29, 2016, 06:49:46 PM »
Spending the last week before labor day at Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. Well, actually Dewey. Last year we tried Grotto's Pizza, the local Boardwalk style pizza with the swirl saucing. This year we tried Mama Maria, just across the street from Grotto's. Definitely better than Grotto's. Peel and deck ovens, Grande cheese, good dough flavor... Recommend.
"If it works, it's obsolete" -- Marshall McLuhan
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Offline pepapi

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2123 on: September 01, 2016, 03:18:33 PM »
The photos below show the results of my latest effort to make a Mack’s clone pizza. The major differences from the last effort were the following: 1) the dough ball weight was increased to 21 ounces, 2) the hydration was lowered to 55%, 3) the oil (I used olive oil this time) was increased to 5%, 4) the dough was used after 91 hours of cold fermentation (I extended this period by using ice cold water in making the dough), and 5) I used about 12 ounces of cheese and about 7 ounces of sauce.

As discussed more fully below, I also used a pre-bake as a way of depositing the cheese so that the cheese wouldn’t overcook and break down. This method was used because I do not have a source of white cheddar cheese that can withstand temperatures above about 500-525 degrees F in my electric oven without breaking down and releasing excessive amounts of fat. The cheese that I used this time was actually a blend of shredded extra sharp white cheddar cheese, mild white cheddar cheese, and low-moisture part-skim (LMPS) mozzarella cheese. The mild white cheddar cheese and the LMPS mozzarella cheese were leftover cheeses and were only used, together with the extra sharp white cheddar cheese, to get a total weight of 12 ounces. The ratio of these cheeses was 39/35/26. The sauce was just a plain sauce that I defrosted from a previous sauce recipe. Again, since I don’t have the correct sauce, I was more interested in the weight at this point.

The dough formulation prepared using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html was as follows:

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.7%):
367.32 g  |  12.96 oz | 0.81 lbs
202.03 g  |  7.13 oz | 0.45 lbs
0.73 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.24 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
7.35 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.32 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
18.37 g | 0.65 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.08 tsp | 1.36 tbsp
5.51 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.38 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
601.3 g | 21.21 oz | 1.33 lbs | TF = N/A
* The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 356.71 grams (12.58 ounces) of King Arthur Bread flour and 10.61 grams (0.37 ounces) of Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (a bit more than 3 ˝ t.), based on a total protein content of 14.2% and using the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/
Note: Dough is for a single 18” inch pizza; the corresponding nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; bowl residue compensation = 1%

The dough was prepared the same way as the recent Mack’s clone doughs, using the combination of my Cuisinart 14-cup capacity food processor and basic KitchenAid stand mixer with the C-hook. Although the dough had more oil than the previous Mack’s clone doughs, the color of the dough did not seem much yellower than the previous doughs. When time came to use the dough, it was tempered at room temperature for about 1 ˝ hours. I found the dough ball easy to open and shape and stretch to 18”. It had a good balance of elasticity and extensibility although the skin did have a slight tendency to contract when I placed it onto my 18” pizza screen. However, I noted that the Mack's workers in the video at also experienced that effect as well. Overall, I would say that the latest dough ball was the best of the ones I have made as part of this project from the standpoint of being able to work with it without it getting away from me or developing thin spots or other imperfections. It could be stretched easily and tossed.

The pizza was dressed in the same way as the previous Mack clone pizzas except that this time I divided the cheese blend into two portions. The first portion, which came to 5 ounces, was distributed on the skin as was done with my previous efforts. The pizza sauce was then swirled onto the pizza in a spiral pattern, using a squeeze bottle in the same manner as previously described. I then placed the pizza, on the 18” pizza screen, on the second from the top oven rack position of my oven. The oven, together with a 14” x 16” inch pizza stone on the lowest most oven rack position, had been preheated for an hour at about 500 degrees F. This was a bit lower oven temperature than I have been using because I wanted the pizza to bake more slowly and for a longer time so as to achieve a more crispy and cracker-like rim. The pizza on the upper rack position baked for about 4-5 minutes, or until the crust had set enough to allow me to remove the pizza off of the screen. However, rather than moving the partially-baked pizza directly onto the pizza stone, as I have done before, I removed the pizza entirely from the oven, quickly added the remaining cheese blend (7 ounces), and returned the pizza back to the oven and on top of the pizza stone. The pizza then baked for an additional 4 minutes or so, or until the rim of the pizza was browned and with the cheeses still intact (that is, not broken down). 

I should note at this point that the method I used to bake the pizza was primarily to keep the cheeses from breaking down and excessively oiling off. If someone has a white cheddar cheese that can tolerate a 500 degrees F oven temperature or higher without breaking down and excessively oiling off, as appears to be the case with the white cheddar cheese that Norma has been using, it should be possible to put all of the cheese on the pizza as it is being dressed. Also, if one has a pizza stone that can handle an 18” pizza, it should be possible to bake the pizza on that stone without the need of a pizza screen and the two-step baking process that is necessary when using a pizza screen. As I have noted before, I have to use a pizza screen because my stone cannot handle an 18” pizza by itself.

Overall, the methods I used seem to work well. The finished pizza weighed 962 grams, or about 33.93 ounces. By contrast, the weight of the ingredients that went into the pizza before baking and after the pre-bake, was 1101 grams, or 38.84 ounces. That represented a loss during pre-baking and the final bake of 139 grams, or 4.90 ounces, or about 14.5%. These numbers suggest that my latest pizza was perhaps 1-2+ ounces too heavy, based on Norma’s recent report that the par-baked pizza she purchased from Mack’s was 34 ounces. To put the next iteration of the pizza on a diet, I think I might use slightly less sauce and maybe slightly less cheese, or possibly some other apportionment of these two items.

In terms of the finished characteristics of the pizza, I would say that the latest pizza seemed to capture the look and feel of an authentic Mack’s pizza better than my previous versions. The crust evidenced blistering along with some large bubbles in the finished crust. The rim was fairly flat (I had intentionally flattened the rim of the unbaked skin) and stiffer and more cracker-like than my previous efforts. The slices themselves were fairly soft and floppy away from the rim, and foldable. The crust flavors were good. The total weight of the pizza seems to be close to the Mack’s target, although I can’t say whether the amounts of cheese and sauce are correct. As before, I still don’t have any idea as to how close these characteristics match up with a real Mack’s pizza. No doubt, having a better cheese and sauce would go a long way to improving my version of the Mack’s pizza even if the dough is not the correct one. Norma or others familiar with the Mack’s pizzas will have to sort out these issues.

The photos appear below.

Peter

Hi Pete, as always you are a fountain of information in this thread.  You suggested I might want to come here next after my experiments at MM and Papa John's clone pizzas, so here I am!  As with many of the threads on this website, I'm overwhelmed with the hundreds of posts and methods and partial instructions, recipes, etc.  I've tried to put together a condensed 16"(hope I did the resize right) version of what you have above but I'm missing the part before putting it in the fridge.  Can you maybe have a peek at mine and possibly add what I'm missing?   I also removed VWG as I have no access to it, what do you think the change to Robin Hood bread and removal of VWG do to the dough?  Here's what recipe and instructions I have so far:

Robin Hood Bread Flour(100%):   316.52 g  |  11.16 oz | 0.7 lbs
Water (55%):                                  174.08 g  |  6.14 oz | 0.38 lbs
IDY (0.2%):                                  0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Salt (2%):                                  6.33 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.13 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
Olive Oil (5%):                          15.83 g | 0.56 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.52 tsp | 1.17 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):                          4.75 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.19 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Total (163.7%):                         518.14 g | 18.28 oz | 1.14 lbs | TF = 0.0909

[MISSING HOW TO ACTUALLY MAKE DOUGH]
-Oil dough balls and put them in containers, place in fridge for 5 days (is there a way to make it 2 days?)
-Put on counter for 1 ˝ hours to warm up
-Stretch to 16” and place on screen
-Divide cheese blend (50% mild white cheddar/50% mozza?) into two portions (4 oz & 5 oz) and distribute 4 oz portion of cheese on the skin
-Swirl pizza sauce (approx. 5 ounces?) onto pizza in spiral pattern using squeeze bottle
-Parbake on top oven rack position for 4-5 mins, or until crust had set enough to allow removal from screen
-Remove from oven, top with rest of cheese and return to oven on pizza steel (no screen)
-Bake for additional 4 minutes until rim of pizza was browned and with cheese still intact

**Note, you can skip parbake if you are using a white cheddar that can handle 500F without oiling and breaking down excessively and have a 18” stone/steel

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2124 on: September 02, 2016, 10:22:46 AM »
Hi Pete, as always you are a fountain of information in this thread.  You suggested I might want to come here next after my experiments at MM and Papa John's clone pizzas, so here I am!  As with many of the threads on this website, I'm overwhelmed with the hundreds of posts and methods and partial instructions, recipes, etc.  I've tried to put together a condensed 16"(hope I did the resize right) version of what you have above but I'm missing the part before putting it in the fridge.  Can you maybe have a peek at mine and possibly add what I'm missing?   I also removed VWG as I have no access to it, what do you think the change to Robin Hood bread and removal of VWG do to the dough?  Here's what recipe and instructions I have so far:

Robin Hood Bread Flour(100%):   316.52 g  |  11.16 oz | 0.7 lbs
Water (55%):                                  174.08 g  |  6.14 oz | 0.38 lbs
IDY (0.2%):                                  0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Salt (2%):                                  6.33 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.13 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
Olive Oil (5%):                          15.83 g | 0.56 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.52 tsp | 1.17 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):                          4.75 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.19 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Total (163.7%):                         518.14 g | 18.28 oz | 1.14 lbs | TF = 0.0909

[MISSING HOW TO ACTUALLY MAKE DOUGH]
-Oil dough balls and put them in containers, place in fridge for 5 days (is there a way to make it 2 days?)
-Put on counter for 1 ˝ hours to warm up
-Stretch to 16” and place on screen
-Divide cheese blend (50% mild white cheddar/50% mozza?) into two portions (4 oz & 5 oz) and distribute 4 oz portion of cheese on the skin
-Swirl pizza sauce (approx. 5 ounces?) onto pizza in spiral pattern using squeeze bottle
-Parbake on top oven rack position for 4-5 mins, or until crust had set enough to allow removal from screen
-Remove from oven, top with rest of cheese and return to oven on pizza steel (no screen)
-Bake for additional 4 minutes until rim of pizza was browned and with cheese still intact

**Note, you can skip parbake if you are using a white cheddar that can handle 500F without oiling and breaking down excessively and have a 18” stone/steel
pepapi,

Welcome to the world of trying to reverse engineer and clone a pizza dough without an ingredients list or Nutrition Facts. In my case, I have never even had a slice of any boardwalk pizza. But Norma has, so she guided me as well as anyone could.

I ran the numbers for the dough formulation you decided to use through the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html but for a 16" pizza instead of an 18". In so doing, I used a thickness factor of 0.08252, a pizza size of 16", and a bowl residue compensation of 1%. And this is what I got:

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.7%):
290.21 g  |  10.24 oz | 0.64 lbs
159.62 g  |  5.63 oz | 0.35 lbs
0.58 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
5.8 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
14.51 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.22 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
4.35 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
475.08 g | 16.76 oz | 1.05 lbs | TF = 0.0833452
Note: Dough is for a single 16" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; bowl residue compensation = 1%

I wouldn't worry too much about the flour and the lack of vital wheat gluten (VWG). In my case, I used the VWG mainly to get the final protein content level to about 14%, which is a typical value for a high gluten flour, such as the one we believe Mack's was using. The Robin Hood bread flour that you have available to you in Canada should be a good place to start. Canadian flours tend to have higher protein content than their U.S. counterparts so that should be a plus. If you'd like, you can look at the Canadian flour entries in the following thread to see if there is a Canadian flour with a higher protein content than the Robin Hood bread flour:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.msg401012#msg401012

If you want to use two days of cold fermentation instead of five days, you will perhaps want to take a look at Craig's yeast quantity prediction table at Reply 188 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg349349#msg349349

Before looking at Craig's table, I guessed around 0.28% IDY. But your amount might be a bit different based on your refrigerator temperature.

To be proportional on the amount of cheese blend and sauce to use for the 16" size (I used 12 ounces of cheese blend and 7 ounces of sauce for the 18" size), you might want to use about 9.5 ounces of the cheese blend (which you will split in two for the two cheeses you will be using) and about 5.5 ounces of sauce.

Your bake times may vary from what I used since I was trying to marry my pizza and screen to my particular oven (an old electric oven). Had I had a pizza stone that could have handled the 18" size, or even a 16" size, I would have used that instead of a screen and watched bake temperatures and times to get the desired results.

If I did not answer all of your questions, please feel free to let me know.

Peter

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Offline pepapi

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2125 on: September 02, 2016, 03:16:03 PM »
pepapi,

Welcome to the world of trying to reverse engineer and clone a pizza dough without an ingredients list or Nutrition Facts. In my case, I have never even had a slice of any boardwalk pizza. But Norma has, so she guided me as well as anyone could.

I ran the numbers for the dough formulation you decided to use through the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html but for a 16" pizza instead of an 18". In so doing, I used a thickness factor of 0.08252, a pizza size of 16", and a bowl residue compensation of 1%. And this is what I got:

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.7%):
290.21 g  |  10.24 oz | 0.64 lbs
159.62 g  |  5.63 oz | 0.35 lbs
0.58 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
5.8 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
14.51 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.22 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
4.35 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
475.08 g | 16.76 oz | 1.05 lbs | TF = 0.0833452
Note: Dough is for a single 16" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; bowl residue compensation = 1%

I wouldn't worry too much about the flour and the lack of vital wheat gluten (VWG). In my case, I used the VWG mainly to get the final protein content level to about 14%, which is a typical value for a high gluten flour, such as the one we believe Mack's was using. The Robin Hood bread flour that you have available to you in Canada should be a good place to start. Canadian flours tend to have higher protein content than their U.S. counterparts so that should be a plus. If you'd like, you can look at the Canadian flour entries in the following thread to see if there is a Canadian flour with a higher protein content than the Robin Hood bread flour:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.msg401012#msg401012

If you want to use two days of cold fermentation instead of five days, you will perhaps want to take a look at Craig's yeast quantity prediction table at Reply 188 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg349349#msg349349

Before looking at Craig's table, I guessed around 0.28% IDY. But your amount might be a bit different based on your refrigerator temperature.

To be proportional on the amount of cheese blend and sauce to use for the 16" size (I used 12 ounces of cheese blend and 7 ounces of sauce for the 18" size), you might want to use about 9.5 ounces of the cheese blend (which you will split in two for the two cheeses you will be using) and about 5.5 ounces of sauce.

Your bake times may vary from what I used since I was trying to marry my pizza and screen to my particular oven (an old electric oven). Had I had a pizza stone that could have handled the 18" size, or even a 16" size, I would have used that instead of a screen and watched bake temperatures and times to get the desired results.

If I did not answer all of your questions, please feel free to let me know.

Peter

Thanks very much as always, you are very helpful.  I have changed it to reflect your comments, the only thing I'm missing is how to actually mix the dough.  I was thinking water first in the mixer and then salt & sugar, dissolve.  Combine flour and IDY and then add to bowl, mix on speed 1 until hydrated.  Add oil and up the speed to 2 for 6-8 minuted until smooth.  Divide and oil balls then into container for 2 days in fridge.

NJ Boardwalk Pizza, 16", 2 day Pete-zza hybrid
Robin Hood Bread Flour(100%):   290 g  |  11.16 oz | 0.7 lbs
Water (55%):                                  160 g  |  6.14 oz | 0.38 lbs
IDY (0.28%):                                  0.81 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Salt (2%):                                  5.8 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.13 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
Olive Oil (5%):                          14.5 g | 0.56 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.52 tsp | 1.17 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):                          4.35 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.19 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Total (163.7%):                         475 g | 18.28 oz | 1.14 lbs | TF = 0.0909

[MISSING HOW TO ACTUALLY MAKE DOUGH]
-Oil dough balls and put them in containers, place in fridge for 2 days
-Put on counter for 1 ˝ hours to warm up
-Stretch to 16” and place on screen
-Divide cheese blend (50% mild white cheddar/50% mozza?) into two portions (4.5 oz & 5 oz) and distribute 4.5 oz portion of cheese on the skin
-Swirl 5.5 oz of pizza sauce onto pizza in spiral pattern using squeeze bottle
-Parbake on top oven rack position for 4-5 mins, or until crust had set enough to allow removal from screen
-Remove from oven, top with rest of cheese and return to oven on pizza steel (no screen)
-Bake for additional 4 minutes until rim of pizza was browned and with cheese still intact

**Note, you can skip parbake if you are using a white cheddar that can handle 500F without oiling and breaking down excessively and have a 18” stone/steel
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 03:21:08 PM by pepapi »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2126 on: September 02, 2016, 04:09:41 PM »
pepapi,

To be on the safe side, I ran the numbers again through the expanded dough calculating tool but with 0.28% IDY, and got the following:

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.78%):
290.07 g  |  10.23 oz | 0.64 lbs
159.54 g  |  5.63 oz | 0.35 lbs
0.81 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
5.8 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
14.5 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.22 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
4.35 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
475.08 g | 16.76 oz | 1.05 lbs | TF = 0.0833452
Note: The dough is for a single 16" pizza; the nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; the bowl residue compensation = 1%

You will note that the total weight numbers in your version are in error. The total dough ball weight you want to get is 3.14159 x 8 x 8 x 0.08252 = 16.6 ounces (or 470 grams). Any leftover is scrap.

The way you want to make the dough looks fine. In my case, I used a combination of stand mixer and food processor to get the dough to the desired condition. Also, the formulation I posted is for a single 16" pizza. If you want to make multiple dough balls, you can use the expanded dough calculating tool to do the calculations and thereby reduce the likelihood of error. For example, the numbers for two 16" pizzas would be as follows:

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.78%):
Single Ball:
580.14 g  |  20.46 oz | 1.28 lbs
319.08 g  |  11.25 oz | 0.7 lbs
1.62 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.54 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
11.6 g | 0.41 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.08 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
29.01 g | 1.02 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.45 tsp | 2.15 tbsp
8.7 g | 0.31 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.18 tsp | 0.73 tbsp
950.15 g | 33.52 oz | 2.09 lbs | TF = 0.0833452
475.08 g | 16.76 oz | 1.05 lbs
Note: The dough is for two 16" pizzas; the nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; the bowl residue compensation = 1%

Peter


Offline pepapi

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2127 on: September 07, 2016, 02:01:29 PM »
pepapi,

To be on the safe side, I ran the numbers again through the expanded dough calculating tool but with 0.28% IDY, and got the following:

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.78%):
290.07 g  |  10.23 oz | 0.64 lbs
159.54 g  |  5.63 oz | 0.35 lbs
0.81 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
5.8 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
14.5 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.22 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
4.35 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
475.08 g | 16.76 oz | 1.05 lbs | TF = 0.0833452
Note: The dough is for a single 16" pizza; the nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; the bowl residue compensation = 1%

You will note that the total weight numbers in your version are in error. The total dough ball weight you want to get is 3.14159 x 8 x 8 x 0.08252 = 16.6 ounces (or 470 grams). Any leftover is scrap.

The way you want to make the dough looks fine. In my case, I used a combination of stand mixer and food processor to get the dough to the desired condition. Also, the formulation I posted is for a single 16" pizza. If you want to make multiple dough balls, you can use the expanded dough calculating tool to do the calculations and thereby reduce the likelihood of error. For example, the numbers for two 16" pizzas would be as follows:

Robin Hood Bread Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (2%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (163.78%):
Single Ball:
580.14 g  |  20.46 oz | 1.28 lbs
319.08 g  |  11.25 oz | 0.7 lbs
1.62 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.54 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
11.6 g | 0.41 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.08 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
29.01 g | 1.02 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.45 tsp | 2.15 tbsp
8.7 g | 0.31 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.18 tsp | 0.73 tbsp
950.15 g | 33.52 oz | 2.09 lbs | TF = 0.0833452
475.08 g | 16.76 oz | 1.05 lbs
Note: The dough is for two 16" pizzas; the nominal thickness factor = 0.08252; the bowl residue compensation = 1%

Peter

Here are the results of the recipe we were talking about above.  I was quite happy with the dough.  I wanted to go for a colder handling so I went with only 30 minutes of counter time and it was perfectly workable, had no issue getting it out to 16", although i had a couple thinner spots probably due to my weak opening skills.  The rim wasn't as tasty as i wanted but the rest of the pie was very good.  I loved the cheese blend and doing the spiral was fun, although not sure if totally necessary.  My dough temp was 81 degrees before I put it in the fridge if anyone was curious, water temp used was on the cooler side.


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2128 on: September 19, 2016, 07:07:12 AM »
Yesterday on Serious Eats Vaffu posted this comment Adam Kuban's Mack's Pizza in Wildwood: "The 'Bad Girl' of Jersey Shore Pizzerias"


This is actually not the Mack's from long ago. They sold the business.
Reading thru these comments tells me they have changed the original recipe.

I worked there back in the 1980's, was quite good friends with Joe and Duke "Mack".
They used a cheese blend which I will not name the exact cheeses as it was their "secret".

I will tell you this there were 4 cheeses they blended and you are missing out big time because what they sell now is no where near as good as when Joe and Duke owned this shop. 

Joe was an expert chef and he poured his heart and soul into every aspect of that pie, shame you all cannot get to taste the difference between the real Mack's and this Mack's.


http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/06/macks-pizza-wildwood-new-jersey-nj.html#comments

I have been eating Mack's pizzas for a long time.  I never noticed a change in the cheese taste at Mack's Pizza.  The crust has suffered sometimes but not the cheese and sauce.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2129 on: October 31, 2016, 09:10:10 AM »
Norma, Peter,

You both are incredible!  Thank you for pulling all of this information together, I really appreciate it and can't wait to give it a try. I'll give the sauce you recommended a try too, and if in the meantime you come across the recipe/proportions paper, please post it as well.

David

David,

I found the paper that had the sauce mix for Manco & Manco, but it was when it was called Mack's & Manco.

8 cans of tomato sauce
2 cups oregano 16 oz.
1 cup black pepper 8 oz.
1 cup sugar 8 oz.
1 cup salt 8 oz.

Cheese was white cheddar from Wisconsin.

I am just guessing that the sauce would have been Gangi. 

Norma

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2130 on: November 18, 2016, 04:52:00 PM »
Took that photo last year, but have been back since. If I can recall (hey, I eat a lotta pizza!) it's not crunchy, more pleasantly chewy. The crust seems thin but not crazy thin..TF's? I don't think I can judge them..I made a couple of SD pies tonight that tasted great (no photos, I didn't think they were camera ready..tasted better than looked) that I think were thinner than this was...Maruca's aren't thin like a coal-oven slice from say John's in NYC...and they're not light , either. I think they told me these are from 26 inch pies (I guess it might have been 24)I do know they didn't used to make them this big..they told me...but pressure from competitors drove the size up. (see Sawmill slices in above post) I can eat one slice of this stuff and I'm good. This was slice #2 about to be tackled by my son, Jersey Junior Pie boy  :-D

According to the Man Vs Food video, the dough ball is 2 lbs @ 24" which is right at .07 TF. Pressed with a heated dough press then hand stretched to size.
They claim 1.5 lbs of cheese, which is 1.5g of cheese per square inch.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2131 on: December 02, 2016, 11:07:08 AM »
Is it normal for boardwalk style pizza to have grated hard cheese somewhere, or does that mess with the cheddar? Is the sauce relatively herb free? Looks pretty red looking at Maruca's and others.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2132 on: December 02, 2016, 09:34:38 PM »
Is it normal for boardwalk style pizza to have grated hard cheese somewhere, or does that mess with the cheddar? Is the sauce relatively herb free? Looks pretty red looking at Maruca's and others.

Ryan,

As far as I know Mack's and Manco and Manco doesn't have any grated hard cheese anywhere.  I don't think it would mess with the cheddar though.  I have added some grated hard cheese after the bake on some market pizzas.  There is a fair amount of oregano in Mack's/Manco and Manco sauce.  See Reply 2129 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg454810#msg454810

I add pretty many ingredients to the Saporito at market for my sauce, but then that isn't a Mack's/Manco and Manco sauce.

Mack's uses Gangi sauce which is heavy like the Saprorito but they don't taste exactly the same.

If you want to see some slices from Mack's they are at Reply 2101 and Reply 2102 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg442767#msg442767   

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg442769#msg442769 


Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2133 on: December 02, 2016, 09:45:13 PM »
Ryan,

As far as I know Mack's and Manco and Manco doesn't have any grated hard cheese anywhere.  I don't think it would mess with the cheddar though.  I have added some grated hard cheese after the bake on some market pizzas.  There is a fair amount of oregano in Mack's/Manco and Manco sauce.  See Reply 2129 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg454810#msg454810

I add pretty many ingredients to the Saporito at market for my sauce, but then that isn't a Mack's/Manco and Manco sauce.

Mack's uses Gangi sauce which is heavy like the Saprorito but they don't taste exactly the same.

If you want to see some slices from Mack's they are at Reply 2101 and Reply 2102 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg442767#msg442767   

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg442769#msg442769 


Norma

Norma,
As always a treasure trove of knowledge. I kind of figured they didn't since they already claim a cheese blend but none of the shreds look like a grana type cheese. I guess I was thinking of Maruca's sauce - I love that picture Bill posted, looked like a fine slice.

I'm also interested in finding a young Asiago to try a 100% Asiago pizza.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2134 on: December 02, 2016, 11:00:50 PM »
Norma,
As always a treasure trove of knowledge. I kind of figured they didn't since they already claim a cheese blend but none of the shreds look like a grana type cheese. I guess I was thinking of Maruca's sauce - I love that picture Bill posted, looked like a fine slice.

I'm also interested in finding a young Asiago to try a 100% Asiago pizza.

Ryan,

For Mack's and Manco and Manco there is no cheese blend at all.  It is all cheddar.  Bill can tell you more about Maruca's.  I only had Maruca's one time and it was when my daughter brought back a slice or two from Marcuca's.  I did have Joey's Pizza in Hamilton, NJ, and that was supposed to be the original Marcua's.  If you look under Pizzeria Reviews at about Reply 14  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25251.msg254876#msg254876 and next post, you can see Joey's Pizza.  They only use cheddar. 

I tried different amounts of Asiago cheese in a blend on pizzas, and they were okay in my opinion.  You might like Asiago.

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2135 on: December 03, 2016, 12:09:40 AM »
Hi Ryan and Norma,


I'd guess Maruca's to be all cheddar also..It's definitely a richer and very smooth tasting cheese. If there's mozz in there, it isn't much.


As far as hard cheese, I've never seen it there and tasted no evidence of it.


Almost every trip to Seaside for us starts with a visit to Maruca's. Once when some family visited, we ordered a whole pie..It's been a while but in my memory, as good as the slices are, the whole pie was even better.


One time the season before this past one, we had Maruca  slices that I thought were just blah..there was flavor missing from , at the very least, the crust. I got very nervous ..on our next visit we opted for non-pizza.  Non-pizza meal on boardwalk...hmmm.   Except for delicious -smelling sausage,pepper and onion sandwiches that I knew would hate me in the morning, there was pretty much nothing to eat. Choked down a dry, overcooked chicken pita. Yuck.  Next time, back to Maruca's, and  all was well  :)

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2136 on: December 03, 2016, 12:14:57 AM »
Hi Ryan and Norma,


I'd guess Maruca's to be all cheddar also..It's definitely a richer and very smooth tasting cheese. If there's mozz in there, it isn't much.


As far as hard cheese, I've never seen it there and tasted no evidence of it.


Almost every trip to Seaside for us starts with a visit to Maruca's. Once when some family visited, we ordered a whole pie..It's been a while but in my memory, as good as the slices are, the whole pie was even better.


One time the season before this past one, we had Maruca  slices that I thought were just blah..there was flavor missing from , at the very least, the crust. I got very nervous ..on our next visit we opted for non-pizza.  Non-pizza meal on boardwalk...hmmm.   Except for delicious -smelling sausage,pepper and onion sandwiches that I knew would hate me in the morning, there was pretty much nothing to eat. Choked down a dry, overcooked chicken pita. Yuck.  Next time, back to Maruca's, and  all was well  :)

Great information and story Bill - any thoughts on Maruca's sauce? Did you get a whole 24" pie that time?
the proof is in the pizza

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2137 on: December 03, 2016, 07:38:06 AM »

any thoughts on Maruca's sauce?


Ryan,

Bill can answer you more about Maruca's sauce.  In the one video below there is a can of tomato sauce sitting on the glass counter at Maruca's.  I can't see what brand of sauce that is though.

If you want to see a video of how Maruca's make their pizzas this is that video.  You can see the tomato sauce on their pizzas.

http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/man-v-food/video/pizza-trenton-style   

And how Marcua's makes their dough. 

http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/man-v-food/video/extra-serving-nj-pizza-dough 

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2138 on: December 03, 2016, 09:56:52 AM »
Thanks for those links, Norma. Certainly more than I knew or meets the eye.


Ryan, I'm no sauce expert, so  I really don't know what they're using, but you can see than first, it's pretty thick, and second, it's used quite sparingly. I see that Dominic described the cheese as a proprietary blend..please, it's cheddar and maybe some mozz..percentages not  exactly knpwn, but I can tell you it's quite rich-tasting.   Of course, with a lot of other pie places steps away, keeping the recipe a little quiet probably isn't a bad idea. Delicious, but I can't eat more than one slice of these 24-inchers. As far as that, when we ordered a whole pie, it was not that large, probably 18 inches. The slices also didn't used to be so large, and one of the brothers,  confirmed that the slices are larger now than they were a few years back...I can't be certain but I seem to remember that the Travel Channel piece may have had something to do with this?


One flavor I've noted in the crust is that it seems nearly pastry-like, so I was almost surprised that they weren't using shortening instead of olive oi..that's what i picked up, but I guess my tastes deceived me..maybe enough oil does that,  Also, the pies we've eaten recently there seem thinner than the video shows people eating, and have darker bottoms with marking from screens. Also, when you come to visit to eat there  :) , you'll see the shop has moved. This was the 'pre-Hurricane Sandy followed by devastating boardwalk fire' location and I really miss it..it had some little Formica booths and some larger tables..you could just come right off the boardwalk and have lunch...Off-season, there was a back door to the street since the boardwalk would be deserted and cold. I don't know if you could eat-in then, or if the business was strictly takeout. At their new location, a few blocks north, they share space with a bar/restaurant that has quite mediocre reviews, except for their pizza, made by you-know-who :-D . While they have no casual  grab-a-slice-and-eat seating indoors, they do have a fewumbrella-shaded tables and benches right on the boardwalk, which if you can grab one, are perfectly great for enjoying your slice..and was the location of my apparently now-legendary slice photo  ;)


I thought interesting he told Richman, "just regular flour.: Uh-huh, regular All Trumps as the bag showed. I did love the Captain Hook impression


Okay, Ryan, summer's coming (in 6 months) Let's go...I'll buy :)





Offline invertedisdead

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #2139 on: December 03, 2016, 10:31:38 AM »
Thanks for those links, Norma. Certainly more than I knew or meets the eye.


Ryan, I'm no sauce expert, so  I really don't know what they're using, but you can see than first, it's pretty thick, and second, it's used quite sparingly. I see that Dominic described the cheese as a proprietary blend..please, it's cheddar and maybe some mozz..percentages not  exactly knpwn, but I can tell you it's quite rich-tasting.   Of course, with a lot of other pie places steps away, keeping the recipe a little quiet probably isn't a bad idea. Delicious, but I can't eat more than one slice of these 24-inchers. As far as that, when we ordered a whole pie, it was not that large, probably 18 inches. The slices also didn't used to be so large, and one of the brothers,  confirmed that the slices are larger now than they were a few years back...I can't be certain but I seem to remember that the Travel Channel piece may have had something to do with this?


One flavor I've noted in the crust is that it seems nearly pastry-like, so I was almost surprised that they weren't using shortening instead of olive oi..that's what i picked up, but I guess my tastes deceived me..maybe enough oil does that,  Also, the pies we've eaten recently there seem thinner than the video shows people eating, and have darker bottoms with marking from screens. Also, when you come to visit to eat there  :) , you'll see the shop has moved. This was the 'pre-Hurricane Sandy followed by devastating boardwalk fire' location and I really miss it..it had some little Formica booths and some larger tables..you could just come right off the boardwalk and have lunch...Off-season, there was a back door to the street since the boardwalk would be deserted and cold. I don't know if you could eat-in then, or if the business was strictly takeout. At their new location, a few blocks north, they share space with a bar/restaurant that has quite mediocre reviews, except for their pizza, made by you-know-who :-D . While they have no casual  grab-a-slice-and-eat seating indoors, they do have a fewumbrella-shaded tables and benches right on the boardwalk, which if you can grab one, are perfectly great for enjoying your slice..and was the location of my apparently now-legendary slice photo  ;)


I thought interesting he told Richman, "just regular flour.: Uh-huh, regular All Trumps as the bag showed. I did love the Captain Hook impression


Okay, Ryan, summer's coming (in 6 months) Let's go...I'll buy :)

Interesting observation with the pastry note. I don't think Tom Lehmann would like how they incorporate the oil directly with the flour first, but maybe that does something? Also looks to be a decent amount of oil. I have a few sauce ideas to try now. I assume the dough press is a newer implement there too, does seem to get that skin opened most of the way there pretty fast though huh. You and Norma's type of first hand experience is invaluable for those of us who haven't had the pleasure of sampling these sweet slices!

Would totally enjoy getting a giant slice with you Bill and talking pizza!!
the proof is in the pizza

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