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Author Topic: All Trumps  (Read 1467 times)

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Offline asdtexas

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All Trumps
« on: December 16, 2020, 11:18:03 PM »
Two quick questions.
I now have access to All Trumps flour and there are two versions: a high gluten and “flour bakers”. I’m guessing the high gluten is the one to get but would like to know for NY style.

Also, will  I see a difference between All Trumps and King Arthur bread flour?
 


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020, 07:34:56 AM »
They are all high gluten and they all say "bakers" on the label. The distinctions are whether they are bromated and/or bleached.  For NY, you want one of the bromated versions which have red text on the label (green text on the unbromated).

Whether or not you will see a difference between AT and KABF depends a lot more on you than the flour.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline HansB

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2020, 07:37:34 AM »
And All Trumps has higher protein than KABF. 14.2% vs. 12.7%
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Offline dmaclaren

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2021, 09:06:05 AM »
You could just take KABF and add VWG to increase protein content


Don.

Offline Monkeyboy

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2021, 12:55:23 PM »
Dough made with All Trumps is incredibly stout.
FYI - when I started using it for NY pies - I tried at 58% hydration but always ended up with seams that would not close during fermentation...I get good pies at 62% now...but I also don't handle them as much after initial fermentation.  I usually do an overnight (10-12 hour) RT fermentation and then into the fridge for 24 hours.  It still holds it shape well after all that.

When stretching the dough, you can go really really thin vs neopolitan dough and the All Trumps dough can handle alot of sauce without getting bogged down. 

Once the is is made, I find I need little to no semolina - it doesn't stick.
I find it pretty unique.

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Offline SonVolt

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2021, 02:26:21 PM »
I usually do an overnight (10-12 hour) RT fermentation


10-12 room temp fermentation? Wouldn't it rise too much and over-proof?

Offline Monkeyboy

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2021, 02:42:20 PM »

10-12 room temp fermentation? Wouldn't it rise too much and over-proof?

My last batch I used the following measurements:
(310g dough ball, 61% hydration)
197g AT flour
120g water
.33g IDY (.168%) - it is really not much at all
4.9g salt (2%)
3.9g oil (2.5%)

Bottom Left of Proofing Box = You can see the NY dough after the 10hour bulk ferment and after 24 hours in fridge - it looks drier than the Neopolitan doughs at 68% hydration and has held its shape very well.

End result  - clam and bacon NY pizza - 500F oven



« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 02:48:22 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2021, 12:16:44 AM »
A 12 hour RT followed by a 24-48+ CF creates micro blisters too. Looks to be blistering in the rim surprising even at .168

Offline SonVolt

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2021, 08:52:17 AM »
So is the secret to long RT fermentations super low yeast %'s?

Offline Monkeyboy

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2021, 10:38:39 AM »
Use the yeast fermentation chart talked about here frequently.  It is a great 'getting started' guide (but not absolute).

My biggest observation = you need a lot less yeast than most online recipes suggest.

For my neopolitan process (room temp and cold fermentation) I started with about .3% yeast - ended up with too many bubbles when cooking...then did .2% - a little better, now at .1% with good results.


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Offline SonVolt

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2021, 01:48:18 PM »
This is the chart you're referring to?

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36830.0

Offline amolapizza

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2021, 02:15:19 PM »
So is the secret to long RT fermentations super low yeast %'s?

Well yes, the amount of yeast to use mainly depends on the dough temperature and the time it needs to ferment.  Though hydration, the amount of salt and the flour might also have an influence.

The best way is to start from a recipe, dough calculator or Craig's chart, start making pizza, and then fine tune depending on the results.
Jack

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Offline SonVolt

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2021, 02:22:54 PM »
Well yes, the amount of yeast to use mainly depends on the dough temperature and the time it needs to ferment.  Though hydration, the amount of salt and the flour might also have an influence.

The best way is to start from a recipe, dough calculator or Craig's chart, start making pizza, and then fine tune depending on the results.


I've always gone straight to fridge after kneading and shaping. I'm curious what a long RT does exactly.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2021, 02:42:53 PM »

I've always gone straight to fridge after kneading and shaping. I'm curious what a long RT does exactly.

I'd imagine more or less the same thing but faster.  I don't have hardly any experience with CT dough, but reading pm.com I've come to understand that the cold temperature slows down all biological, chemical and enzymatic processes even though the slow down varies.  So it might change the ratio of the activity of the bacteria, yeast, enzymes, etc.

I seem to understand that using CF allows you to use more yeast which might give a better oven spring.  But this is an unproven hypothesis... :D

A gross over simplification but it seems that Italians prefer RT for thin crust pizza, and CF for pizza al taglio, while I'd guess that most European pizzerias (and surely some Italian) will probably use CF for dough management purposes (but who knows maybe also for taste).  Americans seem to be firmly married to multiple days CF.  I've often wondered if this might have something to do with the high protein content of US flours.

Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline DaveG_NJ

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2021, 02:02:42 PM »
You could just take KABF and add VWG to increase protein content

What is a good percentage to use as a reference for the amount of VWG to add? I found a recipe for a boardwalk style/NY crust elsewhere and if I reverse engineered it recorrectly, it looked to be about 3% (of total flour). Thanks!

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Offline Anton1

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Re: All Trumps
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2021, 09:53:09 AM »
What is a good percentage to use as a reference for the amount of VWG to add? I found a recipe for a boardwalk style/NY crust elsewhere and if I reverse engineered it recorrectly, it looked to be about 3% (of total flour). Thanks!

See this link: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4252.msg631245#msg631245

Anton1
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