Autolyse advantage for SD Pizza?

[Ryan R]

I read somewhere on the site that Pete-zza saw the benefit of using an Autolyse period for SD starter infused dough. He mentioned that he was not a fan of using it with commercial yeast. What makes it an advantage with SD? Curious --- as I am just beginning to experiment with SD starter usage in my pizza dough.

[corkd]

Do you mean an autolyse period after incorporating the starter? Even though a true autolyse does not incorporate starter, you can do it either way. According to Trevor Wilson in his book Open Crumb Mastery, “...the net effects of the autolyse are greater extensibility, greater fermentation, greater crust color, and greater flavor....” I find this to be true whether making pizza or bread using SD.

[scott r]

Thats a lot of positives!   What amount of time does the book recommend to autolyse?

[mac_whiskers]

He usually does overnight autolyse with salt in the fridge. Ive never tried it but it seems to work for him. Its especially helpful if youre using a high amount of whole grain flour

[corkd]

Thats a lot of positives!   What amount of time does the book recommend to autolyse?

He says “at least 20 minutes, up to several hours...” and that he prefers 1-2 hours. To be clear, he’s talking about bread baking.
He devotes about 4 pages to the topic. Would it make a difference in a pizza production setting? Who knows? I’d love to hear what a naturally leavened shop like Ida in Burlington or Scarr’s in NYC thinks, for example, as I’m just a home baker making micro batches of dough.

[Pizza_Not_War]

For pizza with white flour I've run into the issue of it being hard to incorporate additional ingredients if you wait too long. Also with long term SD ferments I don't see any advantage.

[corkd]

For what it’s worth- the autolyse really helps with higher hydration ( 70+)bread doughs, by making the dough easier to handle. Thanks to Trevor Wilson and experimenting I have become very comfortable working with 80% HR naturally leavened dough. At that #, the only feasible pizza for me is pan based, however.

[corkd]

For pizza with white flour I've run into the issue of it being hard to incorporate additional ingredients if you wait too long. Also with long term SD ferments I don't see any advantage.

Yes, I agree. At lower, more typical pizza hydration (low 60’s) autolyse makes it harder to work by hand as far as incorporating. Wilson brings that up as well regarding the slowing of beneficial activity as the flour & water rest together.

[Pete-zza]

I read somewhere on the site that Pete-zza saw the benefit of using an Autolyse period for SD starter infused dough. He mentioned that he was not a fan of using it with commercial yeast. What makes it an advantage with SD? Curious --- as I am just beginning to experiment with SD starter usage in my pizza dough.

What Ryan may have in mind is the post I entered at Reply 6 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23350.msg236982;topicseen#msg236982

I should add that in my case I tended to use around 15-20% sourdough starter. And my advocacy has always been to let people experiment to find what they like best in terms of results.

But speaking generally, the autolyse process as stated by Prof. Raymond Calvel, the father of that process, did not include any yeast in the autolyzed dough and the duration of the autolyse rest period was short. However, in the literature, I was able to find statements that he came to accept yeast in the autolyzed dough so long as it did not acidify the dough during the period of the autolyse. I wrote about this at Reply 17 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21165.msg213018#msg213018

In the above context, see also the post at Reply 24 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=52548.msg529532;topicseen#msg529532

As for the recommended duration of the autolyse rest period, I researched that matter using Prof. Calvel's book. And then I posted what I learned at Reply 15 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3220.msg74624/topicseen.html#msg74624

With respect to overnight resting of an autolyzed dough, that has been done even though it violated Prof. Calvel's "rules". I discussed this matter at Reply 4 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43242.msg433079;topicseen#msg433079

I tried to encapsulate some of the above points for the definition of AUTOLYSE in the forum's Pizza Glossary at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/glossary.html#index_a

Peter

[Ryan R]

Yes, that is the post I was referring to. Thank you for all of the replies.