A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments  (Read 1116 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« on: February 22, 2021, 12:43:05 PM »
Hello, so I'm on the process of start baking a lot and I figure I should only use one thread to share my results. I'm starting to mix different flours and make some adjustments to get my desired flavor and texture. Last time I posted (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66192.0) on the Sicilian style board which I know realize that this board is used more for this style.

So I begin with this weekend pizzas I made. One on Friday and one on Saturday.

Process was the same for both and by hand.

1.5hr of autolyse (All flour, 70% water)
Added the starter and water to reach 80%. 40min rest.
Added the Oil and salt and mix well. 30min rest.
4 rounds of coil folds every 30min.
Balled with little flour in an oiled container for 24hrs of CF.

1st dough:
80% local bread flour
20% whole wheat
20% Starter
4% EVOO
2% Salt

This one had a good earthy flavor, it might be a little strong for some.

Photos below (my kid like it a lot 😅)

Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2021, 12:50:29 PM »
2nd dough:
80% local bread flour
20% spelt flour
20% Starter
4% EVOO
2% Salt

This one had a more subtle flavor, a little nutty but more close to what I remember had in Rome. Still not completely happy about the oven spring. I will try some changes in the baking process to see if that can help. I understand that using sourdough adds a challenge but I'm determined to find a way. I don't want to go back to the flavor I can get with yeast even with long fermentation times. Specially since is not easy to get good or import good quality flours here.

Offline Sapp

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Location: Ocean City NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2021, 09:47:20 PM »
Ramiro,

You are the man! The combination of whole grains and natural starter is the holy grail for me but both make it harder  to get that light airy but crisp crust. I’m waiting for you to perfect it so I can copy it! My similar recipe al taglio spelt/sourdough pies looked pretty similar and tasted great but still had the density reflecting the whole grain percentages. I’m hoping to do better but have been on a NY style binge lately.

There is at thread in thr general category started by Wholywheaty who made a beautiful and light Neopolitan pizza with 40% spelt. He did two things that were interesting: 1. He went out of his way to create a young sweet Levain, 2. He did a20 minute autolyse of the spelt by itself in excess water before adding the remaining flour. Check it out when you get a chance. I will be using his sourdough technique on my next bread bake and the autolyse technique on my next whole grain pizza if whatever style. It may have some relevance to your pursuit of al taglio perfection.

Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2021, 10:04:42 PM »
Ramiro,

You are the man! The combination of whole grains and natural starter is the holy grail for me but both make it harder  to get that light airy but crisp crust. I’m waiting for you to perfect it so I can copy it! My similar recipe al taglio spelt/sourdough pies looked pretty similar and tasted great but still had the density reflecting the whole grain percentages. I’m hoping to do better but have been on a NY style binge lately.

There is at thread in thr general category started by Wholywheaty who made a beautiful and light Neopolitan pizza with 40% spelt. He did two things that were interesting: 1. He went out of his way to create a young sweet Levain, 2. He did a20 minute autolyse of the spelt by itself in excess water before adding the remaining flour. Check it out when you get a chance. I will be using his sourdough technique on my next bread bake and the autolyse technique on my next whole grain pizza if whatever style. It may have some relevance to your pursuit of al taglio perfection.

That sounds very interesting, I will definitely take a look for sure. I will be very happy if my experiments help someone.

Offline Yael

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2131
  • Location: A French in China
  • French Pizza !
    • my Wechat page
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2021, 10:27:24 PM »
All I can say is that it looks good and I'm hungry  :drool:
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2021, 12:02:40 PM »
80% local bread flour
10% spelt flour
10% whole wheat
80% water
20% Starter
4% EVOO
2% Salt

Made a Rossa this time and while I'm more happy with the texture of this one since I adjusted my baking process (putting the pan on the bottom of the oven) but I also made the mistake of leaving it around 2-3 minutes more and my bottom burned a little. Good and tasty learning experience.

Offline Sapp

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Location: Ocean City NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2021, 01:58:45 PM »
Very consistent thickness, no flat spots. Your dough handling skills are very good

Offline annabakesforever

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Kitchener
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2021, 10:34:11 PM »
I tried your whole wheat recipe today and loved it. Need to reconfigure for my half sheet pan as it was stretched a bit thin but the taste was great . Thank you !

Offline Yael

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2131
  • Location: A French in China
  • French Pizza !
    • my Wechat page
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2021, 01:03:24 AM »
Very consistent thickness, no flat spots. Your dough handling skills are very good

 ^^^
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2021, 09:56:31 AM »
I tried your whole wheat recipe today and loved it. Need to reconfigure for my half sheet pan as it was stretched a bit thin but the taste was great . Thank you !
You're very welcome! happy that it helped.  :)

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
First try using Polselli Super and Nuvola Super
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2021, 03:49:07 PM »
So I finally, thanks to a friend living in the US I was able to import the 2 flours that I wanted to try the most. Polselli Super and Caputo Nuvola Super. Reading a lot of great things about those flours for al Taglio style I've been trying for some months but they wouldn't ship to MX or only if I buy 25kg bags. But I friend made me a favor.

I receive them in a very busy week so I only had time to do them on Saturday and because it was my first try I keep it simple with only 24hrs CF.

I mix by hand so I had 2 bowls side by side so I made them at the same time.


Ingredients for both:
Flour(100%)
Water(80%)
Sourdough starter(20%)
Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt (2%)
Olive oil(2%)

Process for both:
Mix flour and water to reach to 75% hydration and leave them for a 1.5hrs of autolyse.
After that, add the starter and the remaining water to reach to 80% hydration, mix well and let them rest for 40min.
Then add the salt and oil and mix well and making a hook motion with your hand for just 5-8min. Let them rest for 30min.
Now I transfer them into a smaller container and started the coil folds, I just made 2 in 20min intervals.

I usually do more coil folds but you really feel the difference when handling these flours. The were ready to go by then.

Put them in an oiled container (no flour) and to the fridge for the next day. After 24hrs I took them out and re-shape them with some flour and let them in the counter with a towel on top to reach RT for about 4 hrs.


When they were ready I made the usual stretch and transfer to the pan with a little more flour.


My opinion on the flours
I was very surprise of how manageable are, both. I found the Nuvola Super to develop its shape faster but not by much. After handling them for the first time I realize that while I had some good results with local flours and mixes I being experimenting. I never experience something close to how easy I get them ready. Especially doing it always by hand I'm use to take my time I do a lot of folds or other methods.

In the flavor department I was very surprised that I was having a hard time noticing the sourdough flavor. For both flours, maybe because these are ready for longer fermentations Idk but I have a lot of experiments that I'll try with them. 48hrs is next. But also using just yeast is another.
The oven rise was very similar, it wasn't easy but in this bake I had the Nuvola Super as the winner it felt developed a little earlier and it had a slightly tastier mouth flavor that staying a little longer. Still it wasn't super clear, maybe other person would prefer Polselli but for sure I'll have a lot more times to try them.

Here are some photos of yesterday's bake.

Offline Sapp

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Location: Ocean City NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2021, 07:30:23 PM »
It’s a shame you have to work so hard to get unique ingredients for your experiments and for those of us in pursuit of elusive perfection, the experiments never end.

So in your opinion, was this pizza better than those made with high protein Mexican flour... notwithstanding the 24hr fermentation versus your usual 48hr+? They look delicious but so did your original postings! Also these look “whiter” than you originals? Did you change your sourdough formula?

Offline RamirOk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 96
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. Mexico
    • Personal site
Re: My pizza al Taglio progress and experiments
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2021, 08:23:34 PM »
So in your opinion, was this pizza better than those made with high protein Mexican flour... notwithstanding the 24hr fermentation versus your usual 48hr+? They look delicious but so did your original postings! Also these look “whiter” than you originals? Did you change your sourdough formula?

I need to try the 48hr fermentation to compare well since this time it lacked the stronger flavor that I prefer. But just by handling them it was a way better experience and I think the texture in your mouth is better. Good observation, yes they look very white. I did not change my sourdough formula but the last ones I was mixing a percentage of whole wheat or Spelt so that's why it looked a little darker. I do want to mix those again since it adds depth but for this first tries I'll try to keep them alone to get their real taste. At least that's what I think...  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress