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Author Topic: Help with Active Dry Yeast  (Read 429 times)

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Offline 9slicePie

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Help with Active Dry Yeast
« on: July 13, 2021, 10:21:04 AM »
I don't own a jeweler's scale; just a basic kitchen scale.   Dough formula is 281 grams of flour, yeast is 0.04% which equates to 0.1124 grams of ADY,,,,, RIGHT?

How would I measure that miniscule amount of ADY?  My kitchen scale is not gonna be sensitive/accurate enough.


I've indicated in my prior posts on this forum that I may not be the brightest bulb in the shed.  So please take that in to consideration.   ;D
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 10:52:14 AM by 9slicePie »

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2021, 10:39:17 AM »
You could dissolve 1g in 99g lukewarm water, then take about 11 gram or 11 milliliters from it.  It won't be quite exact, but ought to be in the ball park.
Jack

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Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2021, 11:17:56 AM »
Invest in a Jewelers Scale that measures to .01 at least, they are inexpensive.
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Online Papa T

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2021, 04:27:17 PM »
You could buy a jewelers scale but for me it's never been necessary.

It's not that critical. Both IDY and ADY clock in at about 0.75 grams per 1/4 teaspoon, therefore 0.375 grams per 1/8 teaspoon. Calculate the amount of yeast you need, then divide that amount by 0.75, and that will give you the number of 1/4 teaspoons, or fractions thereof, you need. Yes, IDY is a bit more heavy by about 2/100 of a gram than ADY for the same volume, but it doesn't matter. Not at these small batch sizes we make at home. Also, we need to realize that both ADY and IDY have dead yeast in them from the factory, so each time we measure some out, we're not getting the same number of yeast organisms from batch to batch for the same measurement each time.

Yeast of any kind isn't a constant like salt, flour, oil, sugar, etc. It's a living thing and will vary from batch to batch. IDY a bit less dead because of how it's produced, and ADY a bit more dead because it's active. This is why we prove ADY since it will just up and die on it's own over time. IDY is encapsulated, like in hybernation, so it lasts a very long time, especially when cold or frozen. I've had two pounds of IDY in my freezer for two years and keep dipping into it a few ounces at a time to store in a jar in the fridge. It's never failed me or friends I've given some when they ran out.

None of my commercial baker friends use ADY or cake yeast anymore. They've said that IDY is ultra reliable and easy to use like any other dry ingredient. They also said that it's the same yeast culture in each kind, ADY, IDY, or cake, so why worry about which kind to use? Cake yeast was the original, ADY the next best thing since sliced bread, and IDY is modern tech. They all do the same thing.

Again, figure how much dry yeast you need, IDY or ADY, divide that by .75, and use that many 1/4 teaspoons and/or fractions thereof. It will be close enough for home dough batches. The yeast will eat and multiply to do their thing, and all will be right with the dough.

As a side note, since yeast isn't a constant like salt, sugar, flour, oil, it doesn't upscale well when calculating very large batches. It's a living thing and feeds on the chemistry of flour, water, and sometime sugar. The more of those things, the more it feeds. If you've been making regularly a reliable 1500 gram batch of dough and then decided to make a 25,000 gram batch of the same recipe for a big event, and scale the yeast accordingly, you're going to over rise the dough rather quickly. When scaling to very large dough batches from home recipes, yeast percentages become an issue the larger the batch being made. It's call the mass effect, and it's real. How real depends on the size of the batch you are scaling up to.

Going from a three pound home batch to an 80 pound commercial batch, and scaling the yeast accordingly, will cause proofing issues. This also applies when calculating yeast percentages and down scaling large commercial batches. On a home size batch, we need to significantly increase the yeast amount after we've calculated the batch. When scaling down an 80 pound commercial batch of dough, the flour, water, salt, will scale fine, but it will be too little yeast. This is why my early attempts at replicating some commercial dough recipes failed. They fixed themselves when I significantly increased just the yeast, usually by doubling or tripling the amount. Better living through chemistry.

I don't own a jeweler's scale; just a basic kitchen scale.   Dough formula is 281 grams of flour, yeast is 0.04% which equates to 0.1124 grams of ADY,,,,, RIGHT?

How would I measure that miniscule amount of ADY?  My kitchen scale is not gonna be sensitive/accurate enough.


I've indicated in my prior posts on this forum that I may not be the brightest bulb in the shed.  So please take that in to consideration.   ;D
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Online Papa T

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2021, 04:37:12 PM »
Are you sure it's .04%? That seems ridiculously low. Since you show the percent sign, that means divide .04 by 100 so .04/100 is .004 grams, giving you the .1124 grams. If you mean .4%, then that is .004, and multiply that by 281 and you need 1.124 grams of dry yeast, or about 1/4 tsp and a scant 1/8 teaspoon.

I don't own a jeweler's scale; just a basic kitchen scale.   Dough formula is 281 grams of flour, yeast is 0.04% which equates to 0.1124 grams of ADY,,,,, RIGHT?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 04:39:04 PM by Papa T »
Instagram: lightfuzer

Everything sounds better in latin.
Omnis pizza 'est bonum.
Every pizza is good.

Making good pizza is not that hard, unless we choose to make it that way.

The best pizza you'll ever make for someone is making the one they ask for instead of making it the way we think it should be made.

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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2021, 05:41:57 PM »
.........................

As a side note, since yeast isn't a constant like salt, sugar, flour, oil, it doesn't upscale well when calculating very large batches. It's a living thing and feeds on the chemistry of flour, water, and sometime sugar. The more of those things, the more it feeds. If you've been making regularly a reliable 1500 gram batch of dough and then decided to make a 25,000 gram batch of the same recipe for a big event, and scale the yeast accordingly, you're going to over rise the dough rather quickly. When scaling to very large dough batches from home recipes, yeast percentages become an issue the larger the batch being made. It's call the mass effect, and it's real. How real depends on the size of the batch you are scaling up to.

Going from a three pound home batch to an 80 pound commercial batch, and scaling the yeast accordingly, will cause proofing issues. This also applies when calculating yeast percentages and down scaling large commercial batches. On a home size batch, we need to significantly increase the yeast amount after we've calculated the batch. When scaling down an 80 pound commercial batch of dough, the flour, water, salt, will scale fine, but it will be too little yeast. This is why my early attempts at replicating some commercial dough recipes failed. They fixed themselves when I significantly increased just the yeast, usually by doubling or tripling the amount. Better living through chemistry.

First off, thanks for the informative response!

2ndly, so you're saying if we go from a smaller batch of dough to a larger one, upscaling the ingredients accordingly [ratio-wise] is fine EXCEPT for the yeast?  We would need to add more?  If so, how can we calculate how much more to add?


Are you sure it's .04%? That seems ridiculously low. Since you show the percent sign, that means divide .04 by 100 so .04/100 is .004 grams, giving you the .1124 grams. If you mean .4%, then that is .004, and multiply that by 281 and you need 1.124 grams of dry yeast, or about 1/4 tsp and a scant 1/8 teaspoon.

I'm gonna try a room temperature rise for about 20 hours at 70 degrees F.   This table https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg393271#msg393271 predicts that my yeast percentage should be around 0.04% {right?}
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 10:11:32 PM by 9slicePie »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2021, 07:27:00 PM »
Going from a three pound home batch to an 80 pound commercial batch, and scaling the yeast accordingly, will cause proofing issues. This also applies when calculating yeast percentages and down scaling large commercial batches. On a home size batch, we need to significantly increase the yeast amount after we've calculated the batch. When scaling down an 80 pound commercial batch of dough, the flour, water, salt, will scale fine, but it will be too little yeast. This is why my early attempts at replicating some commercial dough recipes failed. They fixed themselves when I significantly increased just the yeast, usually by doubling or tripling the amount. Better living through chemistry.
Papa T,

I remember many years ago reading a pdf document from Pendleton Mills (now called Grain Craft) and seeing that the yeast in small dough batches did not scale up linearly when going to much larger batches. That was an eye opener for me. The abovementioned pdf document went dead when Pendleton Mills became Grain Craft but I found it in the Wayback Machine, at:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141109232607/http://www.pfmills.com/filebin/pdf/technical_informational_booklet_v1-opt.pdf

If you go the page numbered 12, you will see, for example, that going from ten pounds of flour to fifty pounds did not result in 10 ounces of yeast (IDY). In that example, the amount of yeast was 8 ounces. I also noticed the other ingredients also did not scale linearly when going from one batch size to another. Some increased when going to the larger batch size but some decreased.

Since you mentioned the mass effect, maybe our members would like to know more about that. Over the years, I cited a pdf document put out by the San Francisco Baking Institute (SFBI) that discussed the mass effect. As with the abovementioned Pendleton Mills pdf document, the SFBI pdf also went dead. But I found it today at the Wayback Machine, at:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150807023618/https://sfbi.com/pdfs/NewsF04a.pdf

The mass effect is discussed at page 5 of the SFBI pdf.

Peter

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2021, 12:54:43 AM »
Even if you did buy a scale that is labeled 0.01, that doesn't mean it can measure that small amounts accurately. The precision (or resolution, I forget) can make it reliable every 0.05, or even 0.1. Which means if it shows 0.11g, you don't know if that is 0.10 or 0.15.

For such small amounts, I agree with Papa that using volume might be better than mass. A 1/4 teaspoon is always 1.25 ml and might be more reliable than a cheap 0.01g scale. Not that a jewelers scale isn't useful, I got three scales in my kitchen. Two that are used every day (2000g x 0.1g and 500g x 0.01g) and one that is sometimes used (5000g x 1g).
Heine
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Online Papa T

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2021, 06:55:00 AM »
For the batches we make at home, it doesn't matter. If you normally make a 1200 gram batch to yield four 300g dough balls, tripling it to make 12 balls isn't going to matter. Yes, there is some mass effect, but still it won't matter at these sizes. If you go from a 1200 gram batch to a 24000 gram batch to make 80 balls, the mass effect on the yeast will figure into how the dough rises and proofs profoundly. The yeast is generating heat while it eats and produces gas, acids, and alcohol. That internally generated heat by the yeast in a extremely large batch of dough, will cause the yeast to multiply faster, hence the mass effect.

Again, no worries for what we do at home. I've never made more than a double batch of 4 balls, and do not adjust the ratios and it comes out fine. If you make more than that at home, you are a party animal.

2ndly, so you're saying if we go from a smaller batch of dough to a larger one, upscaling the ingredients accordingly [ratio-wise] is fine EXCEPT for the yeast?  We would need to add more?  If so, how can we calculate how much more to add?
Instagram: lightfuzer

Everything sounds better in latin.
Omnis pizza 'est bonum.
Every pizza is good.

Making good pizza is not that hard, unless we choose to make it that way.

The best pizza you'll ever make for someone is making the one they ask for instead of making it the way we think it should be made.

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Help with Active Dry Yeast
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2021, 07:14:47 AM »
If the yeast is not affected by dough masses typically made at home, it might be useful to know that a larger dough takes longer to cool, and if the FDT is much different from the bulk fermentation temperature, significanly increasing dough mass could lead to wanting proprtionally a little less yeast since the dough will take longer to react fermentation temperature. One can of course achieve the same by other means, like shorter fermentation or achieving a lower FDT.
Heine
Oven: Effeuno P134H

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