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Author Topic: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer  (Read 330 times)

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Offline ButteredPizza

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when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« on: August 17, 2021, 08:12:54 PM »
Hi:

I've been using a straight-sided jalapeno jar as my spyglass to bake sourdough bread for about 1.5-2 years now, pretty much same thing as pluviometer.  I get best fermentation for bread if I wait for the doughlette to hit ~60%, then cut and shape my bulk dough, and final proof 12-18 hours in the fridge - one day I'll test and figure out how correlation for ambient RT final proof, but the fridge method works well so far and has resulted in very consistent bakes whether my ambient RT is 50F or 80F.

I can't figure this out for pizza.  Forum search suggests the pizza balls are ready to bake when the doughlette hits 200%?  What are you main targets, if doing bulk then balled-proof?  Or just straight to ball?  Appreciate the help, thank you :)

Offline Heikjo

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2021, 01:51:39 PM »
From my observations, most use it when it has risen around 1.7-2x volume, myself included. Some like to experiment past 2x and you can certainly make pizza in that area, but it becomes increasingly more challenging as the dough ferments and becomes airier and lose strength.

The timing of balling also varies. My preference is to ball after it has barely started to rise. For shorter total fermentation I might ball it straight after mixing. I don’t want to ball after it has risen more than 10%.

For 24 hour doughs I typically do 8+16 at 15C these days. You’ll have to do some testing to see what works for you. The ball should at the time of opening have enough strength to snap back a bit, but also relaxed enough to allow you to open it without too much trouble. More time in balls leads to a more relaxed ball. How tight you ball it also makes a difference.

Bread is not pizza and a bread dough is easier than a pizza dough. I also make SD bread and changing RT doesn’t matter much since I’m also putting it in the fridge. If that is after 5 or 6 hours doesn’t matter. You can use the fridge for pizza too, and many do to make it easier and more predictable. Some say it hurts the result, but many find it just fine. When fermenting the entire time in RT, timing, starter amount and temperatures becomes important and is where each has to experiement.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 01:55:31 PM by Heikjo »
Heine
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Offline ButteredPizza

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2021, 07:04:08 PM »
Great, thank you!  I put SD pizza aside last year and baked a bit with baker's yeast, but recently decided I want to give SD a try again.  Past struggles mostly included not really knowing when the pizza was ready to bake, and using tables/guides doesn't really help when you don't know what you're doing.

This is a somewhat stupid followup question, it's based on the fact that I can make a case for each possibility in my head and leaves me confused.  If dough rises 75%, is that 1.75 or 0.75?  Maybe easier to use an example.  Doughlette starts at 100ml mark.  If it rises to 200ml, that's a 1 or 2 times rise?  If it goes to 300ml, is that doubled or tripled?  Using your 1.75-2x, would the 100ml doughlette be at 1.75-2 when it reaches 175-200, or 250-300?   ??? :P

Offline Heikjo

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2021, 01:37:30 AM »
75% rise would be 1.75x and from 100 ml to 200 ml is 2x, or a doubling in size.

1.75-2x would be 175-200 ml.

300 ml would be 3x, or tripling, and give you a ball that may be difficult to work with. I have used balls gone this far and it can work, but not something I aim for.

Tables and guides are useful for starting points, but you always have to experiment and adjust. I currently use a Weck jar for my spy and an 80g dough ball. The ball is 62g and when it has filled 124 ml in the jar, it’s at 2x and a good place to use. Lower band is the starting point (or 1x) and upper is 2x.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 01:39:35 AM by Heikjo »
Heine
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Offline Cogs

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2021, 06:05:33 AM »
Wait for it… Pizza is not Bread.

Toss your jalapeño jar, you are wasting good dough when it comes to pizza.

What style of pizza do you want to make?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 06:08:46 AM by Cogs »

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Offline Heikjo

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2021, 07:43:21 AM »
Wait for it… Pizza is not Bread.

Toss your jalapeño jar, you are wasting good dough when it comes to pizza.
I make a small pie with my spy, so nothing is wasted. I don't use it every time when I have found a consistent recipe and use stable fermentation temperature, but if I were fermenting in inconsistent temperatures it would be very useful. Also very useful for experimentation and testing.
Heine
Oven: Effeuno P134H

Offline ButteredPizza

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2021, 09:01:08 AM »
1.75-2x would be 175-200 ml.
Perfect, thanks!!

Tables and guides are useful for starting points, but you always have to experiment and adjust.
Precisely!  From my experience, the spyglass method helps normalize the other variables and bring more consistency to the end result, so it's easier to compare when you change variables.  This method would eliminate a lot of problems for beginners.  ;D

Offline ButteredPizza

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2021, 08:34:05 AM »
Follow up: it worked, thank you :) 

Offline ButteredPizza

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Re: when is it ready to bake, using spyglass/pluviometer
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2021, 09:27:03 AM »
Another follow up: I'm so confused.  ??? ::)  :-D

Yesterday's experiments: the dough rose faster than expected, ready at lunch rather than dinner, if we go by the 1.75-2x rise.  I couldn't bake all the dough I made due to work, therefore dropped fridge temp and saved the remaining dough balls for dinner.  6 hours later, the doughlette sample showed a rise to nearly 3x.. probably 2.8 or so.  The actual dough opened up without issues, great taste, in fact, this is likely my best result so far with SD in the last few years of this hobby.  One of the reasons to love and hate sourdough, hah!

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