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Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 530471 times)

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Online nick57

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1320 on: October 20, 2017, 08:33:46 PM »
  I have in the past dressed my skins directly on a wooden peel. Never had too many launch problems. These days I always use parchment paper on the peel and dress my pies on it. I figure I went to all the trouble to make a pie, I really don't want to be on the thread of shame more than I have to. When first placing the skin on parchment paper it does have a tendency to stick a little. I slide the pie on top of the parchment paper on to the stone. After between two and three minutes I remove the parchment paper from under the pie in a quick pulling motion, like the magic trick of tableware staying put when yanking the tablecloth. No mater the hydration of the skin and after several hundred pies and years I have yet to experience the paper wanting to stick to the skin. I have even let the skin sit on the parchment paper for up to a half hour before baking with no problems. Maybe you are trying to pull the parchment before the skin has had time to set up. I have seen instructions that you should oil the parchment paper before placing the skin on it. Makes no sense to me. I like the idea of parchment paper, no burnt flour or semolina to clean up after the bake, and I can't tell much difference if I started the bake sans the parchment paper.

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1321 on: October 20, 2017, 08:58:21 PM »
I'm working through a 1000-count box of the cheap (non-silicone) pan liners, and dust with semolina for lean doughs; silicone-treated parchment releases more reliably and probably doesn't need the help.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1322 on: October 20, 2017, 09:16:20 PM »
Because the PJ clone doughs do not have a high hydration value, I have never seen the need to use parchment paper for those doughs. Also, I used pizza screens. But for those cases where I used high hydration doughs, I found the use of parchment paper to be a good idea. I would say that my practice with parchment paper was similar to what Steve described. But I once tackled the parchment paper method in its various aspects in a single post, at:

Reply 13 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11844.msg110675#msg110675.

It didn’t bother me personally that some semolina might have ended up under the pizza. I liked the flavor and crunch imparted by the semolina. Remember, also, that the Dustinator blend that PJ uses on the bench contains some semolina.

Peter

Offline csnack

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1323 on: October 21, 2017, 02:42:17 AM »
I was wondering what happens to all the stray toppings at PJ's (and every other similar place) that fall from/around the pizza and through the grate when the pizza is being topped in haste as per usual. If it was just cheese e.g. it could be scooped up and put back in the cheese container, but it's a medley of pretty much every topping available down there that is seemingly rendered unusable as a result. I mean either they're actually sifting through it to reclaim it or they're throwing it out, which sounds crazy both cost-wise and waste-wise.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1324 on: October 21, 2017, 09:12:07 AM »
I was wondering what happens to all the stray toppings at PJ's (and every other similar place) that fall from/around the pizza and through the grate when the pizza is being topped in haste as per usual. If it was just cheese e.g. it could be scooped up and put back in the cheese container, but it's a medley of pretty much every topping available down there that is seemingly rendered unusable as a result. I mean either they're actually sifting through it to reclaim it or they're throwing it out, which sounds crazy both cost-wise and waste-wise.
Christian,

That is a good question. Some time ago, I found what appeared to be a PJ manual for assembling their pizzas, at http://blakemward.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/5/8/21582402/employee_manual0.pdf. The part of the manual that discusses adding the sauce, toppings and cheese starts at page 13. You will note that everything is measured out. So, I think the hope is that if the make-line workers follow what the manual tells them to do there will not be a lot of overflow of cheese and toppings that goes through the grate. However, I would imagine that that rule is often broken when they are being slammed. I have to believe that whatever falls through the grate is discarded. I don't even think they want their employees to find personal uses for the waste. Companies like PJ are very cautious about matters of hygiene and don't dare violate rules of hygiene. I recall a while back reading a Mellow Mushroom manual that someone posted online and their rules and procedures were extremely detailed about what employees could or could not do. They can't risk legal or other problems just to save a few pennies on ingredients.

Peter

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Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1325 on: January 18, 2018, 10:41:07 AM »
This thread hasn't seen any activity in months how odd. 

I'm making a Papa John's clone tonight, the first pizza I've made in months and it's already gone wrong.


I recently bought a stand mixer and it kneads nicely but I didn't take into account dough temp.   I usually use room temp water which is pretty cold here and kneading by hand  warms the dough up a lot. Not sure what temp it usually reaches but I recall about 85f.


Using a stand mixer and room temp water results in a cold dough thats taking a lot longer to rise the friction from kneading in the machine barely changes the temp of the dough at all. I just recorded the dough temp and its  only  73f!

 :'(






Offline the1mu

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1326 on: January 18, 2018, 10:48:16 AM »
This thread hasn't seen any activity in months how odd. 

I'm making a Papa John's clone tonight, the first pizza I've made in months and it's already gone wrong.


I recently bought a stand mixer and it kneads nicely but I didn't take into account dough temp.   I usually use room temp water which is pretty cold here and kneading by hand  warms the dough up a lot. Not sure what temp it usually reaches but I recall about 85f.


Using a stand mixer and room temp water results in a cold dough thats taking a lot longer to rise the friction from kneading in the machine barely changes the temp of the dough at all. I just recorded the dough temp and its  only  73f!

 :'(

What kind of mixer are you rocking?

It really depends on the mixer, in my experience. One thing I've noticed with my home mixer is that it starts out coolish but once it starts to heat up, it gets warm really fast.

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1327 on: January 18, 2018, 10:53:52 AM »
What kind of mixer are you rocking?

It really depends on the mixer, in my experience. One thing I've noticed with my home mixer is that it starts out coolish but once it starts to heat up, it gets warm really fast.


It's a Kenwood Kmix with spiral dough hook


Yeah the motor gets a little warm but it doesn't really effect the actual dough  only the friction should?

 

Offline the1mu

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1328 on: January 18, 2018, 10:56:46 AM »

It's a Kenwood Kmix with spiral dough hook


Yeah the motor gets a little warm but it doesn't really effect the actual dough  only the friction should?

My reference wasn't to the motor. It seems to me that for my dough, once a "threshold" is met in terms of warmth generated by friction, it increases rapidly after. (These numbers are just for example only...) Like if for the first 10 minutes of mixing, I see a 10° increase (F) in termperature, then all of the sudden, in the next 2 minutes I would see a 5° increase (and they are drastically exaggerated to hopefully illustrate what I meant).

Offline Ric Clint

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1329 on: February 09, 2018, 04:48:55 AM »
I hesitated to post this on this thread, but...

I'm still somewhat new to this, but I was looking through Youtube and seen this video:


Are these Papa John's clones anything close to similar to what Tom's recipe is in this video, or are they a completely different animal?

Is this the recipe in the video just a generic "starter-type" dough recipe designed just for newbies to play around with just to get a feel for the dough making process... or can this recipe be used in successful pizzerias? I'm sure it's probably not the exact same recipe as some of the major chains, but is this recipe one that can hold it's own against chains like Pizza Hut, Domino's, Mellow Mushroom, Papa John's, etc... or should there be modifications to it in someway?

Just trying to get a better understanding.

Thanks!



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Offline csnack

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1330 on: February 09, 2018, 07:03:51 AM »


I hesitated to post this on this thread, but...

I'm still somewhat new to this, but I was looking through Youtube and seen this video:


Are these Papa John's clones anything close to similar to what Tom's recipe is in this video, or are they a completely different animal?

Is this the recipe in the video just a generic "starter-type" dough recipe designed just for newbies to play around with just to get a feel for the dough making process... or can this recipe be used in successful pizzerias? I'm sure it's probably not the exact same recipe as some of the major chains, but is this recipe one that can hold it's own against chains like Pizza Hut, Domino's, Mellow Mushroom, Papa John's, etc... or should there be modifications to it in someway?

Just trying to get a better understanding.

Thanks!



.

Tom's dough recipe and similar can be and is used in many pizzerias as it's a solid standard dough. Some NY style pizzerias (referred to as "elite") don't even use sugar or oil, but just flour, water, yeast and salt, so there's nothing inferior about his recipe; it's simply a good dough for anyone to use as is or tweak to their own.

There's a couple of significant differences between Tom's recipe and this PJ clone. Where Tom's uses 2% oil and 2% sugar, this PJ clone uses 7% or more oil and over 4% sugar. At the very least more sugar means the dough will brown quicker (if not a lot quicker) than Tom's dough (AOTBE) and 7% oil means the finished crust would be softer and it'd ferment faster, too, w/ the same amount of yeast. Tom's dough w/ it's 2% oil will have a chewier finished crust typical of an NY crust, whereas the PJ crust is your typical American soft crust.
Either dough can be every bit as good or better than the chains provided that the other variables are present; proper mixing and dough management, baking time/temp etc.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1331 on: February 09, 2018, 08:36:34 PM »
Ric Clint,

Christian (csnack) gave you a correct analysis. There is no reason why Tom's recipe cannot be used to make an "American" style pizza although most chains, like Papa John's and Domino's, tend to use a fair amount of sugar and oil (Mellow Mushroom uses a form of molasses) than called for by Tom's recipe. Also, I suspect that Tom uses a smaller thickness factor (dough loading) than the chains that make an American style of pizza.

I should also add that I modified the original PJ clone dough formulation when I found additional information on the PJ dough. The most significant change was to use more sugar than oil. You can see an example for a two-day cold fermented PJ clone dough at Reply 585 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667. The same or similar baker's percents could be used to make PJ clones with different fermentation periods, with the major change being the amount of yeast. But in all cases, the thickness factor would be around 0.13 whereas most NY style doughs tend to have a thickness factor ranging from around 0.085-0.10.

If your are interested in a dough that is essentially a cross or hybrid of the NY and American styles, you might check out the formulation I posted at Reply 8 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1707.msg15953#msg15953

I mention this formulation because at the time I experimented with it, I was not aware of any pizza chain or pizzeria that was using it and I thought that it would make a good pizzeria pizza.

Good luck with whatever formulation you decide to use or test out.

Peter

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