Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Sicilian Style => Topic started by: steel_baker on February 19, 2011, 08:50:02 PM

Title: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 19, 2011, 08:50:02 PM
Victory Pig Pizza (VP) is a unique style of pizza that is local to the northeastern PA region. Located in the town of Wyoming, PA, the Victory BBQ restaurant serves it's own style of home made pizza on wednesdays, fridays, and saturdays. This is in addition to their simple fare of burgers, dogs, pulled pork, fries, etc. The pizza recipe is original to the sicilian family that owns & operates the restaurant. It is a simple "bakery" style pizza made with a medium thickness risen in the pan high hydration yeast dough topped with a simple sauce made of canned chopped tomatoes and finely chopped onions, no spices and uncooked. The cheese is believed to be white cheddar. The dough is pan risen in oiled blue steel pans, topped, and baked at high temps. It fries in the oiled pans and creates a pizza with a mouth feel that is quite decadent. The bottom is brown, crispy fried while the top is still soft & gooey with the fresh flavor of tomatoes, onions, and cheese. The crust is light & crispy in texture. The onions can only be tasted, there are no chunks due to the fine chop. The onion flavor is one of the distinct characteristics of this pizza and one of the reasons that people come from miles around to enjoy it. People who grew up in the area (like me) will travel from far off places just to eat this pizza again and in many cases, take boxes of it home with them to freeze & reheat. They sell frozen boxes in the restaurant but it's not the same as getting it fresh baked. It has spawned a few imitators over the years and many are very good in their own right, but the flavor contained in the real VP pizza continues stand out in comparison.

http://www.urbanspoon.com/u/photo_list/1232061

The restaurant has been around for over 50 years now and as is the case with many of us who grew up eating this great pizza, many have tried to duplicate it. Very few have been successful. I have been trying to do this myself for over 30 years and early last year, I finally got to the point where I think I'm about 95% there. So I've started this thread to discuss what I've learned and to document the process of producing this pizza.

First off, everybody who wants to make this pizza thinks that there is some deep dark secret recipe to make this pizza. There is not. In duplicating this pizza, it finally occurred to me that because VP produces hundreds of trays of this pizza in an evening, it must be relatively simple to make. It must use standard baking techniques that are simple & can be done by anybody. The workers in the kitchen are usually high school kids and older women (grandmothers?). Besides the flavors of the tomatoes, cheese, & onions, the key to making this pizza is the high hydration dough recipe, and the spreading & rising of the dough in the pans.

In future posts, I'll document my technique & recipes to make this pizza. In the process, I'll hopefully stimulate a lot of discussion about this great pizza and how it's made. With any luck, people who are more knowledgeable about this pizza will contribute & share their knowledge. Here's one of my trays.

steel_baker

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: parallei on February 19, 2011, 11:15:52 PM
Looks very tasty SB!  Keep us posted......
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Motorpies on February 20, 2011, 12:57:08 AM
That looks like a perfect replica Steel_Baker.

I agree, they do a lot more volume than most of the standard pizzerias I've seen, so it makes sense that they would be using a relatively simple setup. Thanks for sharing with us!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on February 20, 2011, 09:06:47 AM
Good thread steelbaker!  Twenty years ago I visited the Pig with my family.  The crunchy, greasy crust and bright onion sauce was memorable.  An outrageous pie!  I am back in the area, and will take my family down soon.  I will report, and perhaps jump in to your pursuit of the Pig pie at home.   Mark
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: dhelm99 on March 04, 2011, 06:45:24 PM
Consider me interested! :)

I was there last month when visiting with family!  I brought 3 trays to Grand Rapids, Michigan so that t I could work on the recipe and compare it to the original.  What is that cheese!?!

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on March 05, 2011, 09:19:07 PM
Stopped into the Victory Pig after 18 year absence.  Saturday night.  Moderate crowd.  Simple table set up.  Ordered 16 slices for family.  Wow, after 18 years, shockingly crispy and greasy crust! Yes!  Bright in your face uncooked ( except in oven ) canned red tomatoes with fine chopped onion flavoring.  And somewhat thin white cheese topping - is it Cooper Sharp?  No oregano or basil.  Excellent ratings from all family members.  A very different pizza to enjoy now and then.  Not sure if I want to reproduce at home because I can get this every couple of months because I am back in the area.  I am doing a good tray of New York style weekly, and getting good reviews from family.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 13, 2011, 10:53:24 AM
Consider me interested! :)

I was there last month when visiting with family!  I brought 3 trays to Grand Rapids, Michigan so that t I could work on the recipe and compare it to the original.  What is that cheese!?!



The cheese is white cheddar. They slice it paper thin on a meat slicer & lay it on top of the crushed tomatoes. I use a 50/50 blend of mozz & vermont white cheddar (usually Cabot because it's easily available). I buy the white cheddar at Costco in a 2 lb block and shred it with the shredding disc on the food processor. Shreds the 2lb block in about 5 minutes. Because I do everything on a scale I just mix equal weights of mozz & white cheddar in a stainless steel bowl, then weigh it out into Gallon sized ziploc bags for storage.

Here are a few pics from my pizza baking sessions over the past 2 months:



Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mikedavid on March 17, 2011, 05:15:50 PM
steel_baker you're the man.

Been reading all of your posts. I envy your pans.

I cannot get them here in Canada. Do you know of a good substitute?

Also I don't think I've seen you post a dough recipe. I really liked your crust on that other thread.

For the cheddar do you get a sharp cheddar? Or 'old' cheddar?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 17, 2011, 05:38:26 PM
I use a Vermont white cheddar which is sharp. For blue steel pans try Amazon.com. They sell Paderno blue steel baking sheets which will give you the same results. They're only 1-1/8" deep but as long as you don't use too much oil you'll be fine.

http://www.amazon.com/Paderno-World-Cuisine-11-825-Baking/dp/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20 (http://www.amazon.com/Paderno-World-Cuisine-11-825-Baking/dp/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20)

 That's what I used before I found the 2" deep blue steel pizza pans at PA Products in Livonia, MI.

http://www.paprod.com/pans.html (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html)

Scroll down to the rectangular blue steel pizza pans. That's what I use as seen in the pictures I posted. They only sell them by the dozen but they're inexpensive at just under $8 ea. I bought a dozen and sold/ gave away the excess to friends & relatives. I kept 3 for myself.

Steel_baker

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 17, 2011, 05:40:12 PM
BTW, I'll post a recipe soon. I travel a lot on business and don't always have time to post.

Steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mikedavid on March 18, 2011, 02:20:09 AM
Thanks a bunch. Reading over hundreds of posts you seem to be the best pizza maker on the forum.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 18, 2011, 12:24:16 PM
Thanks a bunch. Reading over hundreds of posts you seem to be the best pizza maker on the forum.

Wow, thanks for the compliment but I'm sure there are better pizza bakers on this forum than me. I'm pretty good at this particular style of pizza since it's been an obsession of mine for decades but trust me, you don't want to eat any thin crust or NY style pizzas that I would make. I'm still learning how to make thin crusts and I have a long way to go.

But again, thanks for your compliment. You're making me blush now.  :-[

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaHog on May 15, 2011, 03:30:44 PM
s_b
Look's and sounds tasty for sure and I am intriqued by the onion sauce.  Both my Italian grandparents emigrated to, met, and married in NEPA.  My Nono was a coal miner and my mother was born and grew up there.  After following the link in your original post and poking around the internet I was taken by how much this style looks like what my mom used to make.  I never got around to asking for her recipe while she was with us and no idea if this style influenced her recipe, but really looking forward to your posts and giving your version a try.
Hog
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Apuleius on June 10, 2011, 04:30:52 PM
I worked in the Pizza L'oven kitchen some years ago. Your assumption is correct; the ingredients are basic, the process is well defined and very repeatable. During my tenure, I was mainly responsible for the side work of wings (an entirely other worthy topic on some other board), subs, etc. I would occasionally help with the pizza. Here's what I remember.

Hobart equipment, particularly the mixer. The cheese was delivered from the back of a station wagon in blocks, which were then sliced thin for the night. I never could tell what it was since there was no labeling. I'm very glad that you shared your discoveries about the cheese. It certainly looks accurate to me.

The sauce was equal parts cans of crushed tomatoes and tomato paste, into which an additional can of water was added, along with equal parts sugar and salt, and black pepper in smaller quantity. No onions in this sauce.

Peanut oil of course is used (also for the wings) and the banks of ovens where very hot. The peanut oil is capable of handling the heat best. Hundreds of deep black pans for the pies.

Only a few trusted employees knew the prep process for night, though it wasn't veiled in secrecy. On the weekends people would come in around 12:30 or so and start prepping. The first batch of dough made maybe 100 pans or so? Really the trick to their operation and Victory Pig's, as you correctly assumed, is in the logistics. How to plan for the evening rush and keep the pizza coming. The first batch is mixed into the Hobart and dumped. It rises. It is cut and weighed into a pan already ladled with peanut oil. The pans are stacked and the dough rises again. Another batch may be put through the Hobart. As the dough rises again, pans are taken off the stack, pat down and stretched into the pan to fill it out fully, then re-stacked.

As orders come in, pans are taken off the stack, stretched out again and pat down and kneaded into the sides and corners. It's a quick process done by the cooks. A ladle of sauce is added, cheese slices are put down, and into the oven for about 10-15 minutes each. Pans are turned frequently and bubbles in the cheese poked with a fork tied to a stick. Everything is eyeballed and based on experience. When ready, pans are brought out to a rack under which is a funnel into a bucket. The pie is slid out of the tray, the oil goes into the funnel, and the pizza slides onto the chopping block.

Thanks for starting the discussion. Please, please please post a recipe.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on June 10, 2011, 06:05:51 PM
I worked in the Pizza L'oven kitchen some years ago. Your assumption is correct; the ingredients are basic, the process is well defined and very repeatable. During my tenure, I was mainly responsible for the side work of wings (an entirely other worthy topic on some other board), subs, etc. I would occasionally help with the pizza. Here's what I remember.

Hobart equipment, particularly the mixer. The cheese was delivered from the back of a station wagon in blocks, which were then sliced thin for the night. I never could tell what it was since there was no labeling. I'm very glad that you shared your discoveries about the cheese. It certainly looks accurate to me.

The sauce was equal parts cans of crushed tomatoes and tomato paste, into which an additional can of water was added, along with equal parts sugar and salt, and black pepper in smaller quantity. No onions in this sauce.

Peanut oil of course is used (also for the wings) and the banks of ovens where very hot. The peanut oil is capable of handling the heat best. Hundreds of deep black pans for the pies.

Only a few trusted employees knew the prep process for night, though it wasn't veiled in secrecy. On the weekends people would come in around 12:30 or so and start prepping. The first batch of dough made maybe 100 pans or so? Really the trick to their operation and Victory Pig's, as you correctly assumed, is in the logistics. How to plan for the evening rush and keep the pizza coming. The first batch is mixed into the Hobart and dumped. It rises. It is cut and weighed into a pan already ladled with peanut oil. The pans are stacked and the dough rises again. Another batch may be put through the Hobart. As the dough rises again, pans are taken off the stack, pat down and stretched into the pan to fill it out fully, then re-stacked.

As orders come in, pans are taken off the stack, stretched out again and pat down and kneaded into the sides and corners. It's a quick process done by the cooks. A ladle of sauce is added, cheese slices are put down, and into the oven for about 10-15 minutes each. Pans are turned frequently and bubbles in the cheese poked with a fork tied to a stick. Everything is eyeballed and based on experience. When ready, pans are brought out to a rack under which is a funnel into a bucket. The pie is slid out of the tray, the oil goes into the funnel, and the pizza slides onto the chopping block.

Thanks for starting the discussion. Please, please please post a recipe.

Thanks for your very informative post. I had to figure out all of the techniques on my own and face it, in a business like this, simplicity & repeatability rules. I have not posted in a while as usually winter is the busy time for my pizza making. I plan to video my entire process, edit, and post it all to youtube which I'll link to from here. I can also PM the recipe if you like. It's not the exact one I use today which is slightly higher hydration but it's designed for starters so that the dough is easier to handle and can be made by hand. I use a Bosch universal plus so I'm able to make multiple trays (usually 3-4) at a time. I generally make it for a group since it's too much to eat for just my wife & I.

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: jsperk on June 18, 2011, 02:45:25 PM
That looks awesome.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on September 04, 2011, 02:48:34 PM
Now that we're past labor day, it's time to start baking pizza again. Over the next few weeks, as I start up again, I plan to videotape & post Youtube videos of the process of making this pizza so stay tuned. :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: itisjustme on September 05, 2011, 04:13:46 AM
Now that we're past labor day, it's time to start baking pizza again. Over the next few weeks, as I start up again, I plan to videotape & post Youtube videos of the process of making this pizza so stay tuned. :chef:

I'm glad to hear this and look forward to viewing the video.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: linklaw on October 10, 2011, 09:17:01 PM
Steel_Baker, you inspired me. Like you, for at least the last 25 years I had been attempting to duplicate Victory Pig style pizza. When I saw your post, I immediately ordered a half dozen blue steel pans, seasoned a couple on the grill and mixed up a batch of dough. I let it rise in a bowl until it doubled then stretched it and fit it into the well oiled pans. After it rose in the pan for about two hours, I pushed it down and into the edges and corners of the pans. After another couple hours, I lightly flattened it, added the sauce and cheese and popped it in a 500 degree oven. I turned the pans every couple minutes so the bottom wouldn't burn and about 15 minutes later, voila, I had the closest thing to Victory Pig pizza since Pizza L'Oven! For cheese I used a mixture of equal parts aged provolone and domestic provolone and the sauce was just crushed tomatoes and onions. All that was missing was the birch beer on tap and the smell of stale Gibbons. If anyone knows what type of cheese the "pizza cheddar" is, please let me know. John
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 10, 2011, 10:04:54 PM
The cheddar is a sharp white cheddar. VP uses Wisconsin cheddar I believe. They slice it paper thin on a meat slicer and let it on the dough. I use Vermont white cheddar since it's easily available and seems to taste the same.

Steel_Baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 25, 2011, 12:20:35 PM
OK everyone. I have now shot a video of the pizza making process I use. I expect to have it edited and up on this thread within the next few days so for all VP pizza lovers, be patient. I'll get it up for everyone as soon as I can

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 16, 2011, 04:22:40 PM
OK folks, for everyone who has been waiting for the video & recipe, here it is. Thanks for being patient.

First the dough recipe:

Pizza Dough for 12x17 pan

The conversion to the volumes in the right hand column is not entirely accurate but will still get good results for you.   

Flour       | 100%  | 409g  | 3.25 cups (bread flour)
Water     |   67%  | 274g  | 9.8 oz (bottled water)
Salt        |  2.0%  |    8g  | 2 tsp
Sugar      |  2.0%  |    8g  | 2 tsp
IDY         |  2.0%  |    9g  | 2-1/4 tsp (1 packet of bread maker yeast)
Olive oil   |  2.0%  |    9g  | 2 tsp

Sauce: 1 can of crushed tomatoes, 1/2 large white onion finely chopped mixed in (no cooking, no spices). Please note that (1) 28oz can of crushed tomatoes with the recommended amount of onion will top (4) 12x17 trays so be sure to adjust your topping amount accordingly.

Cheese: 50/50 blend of shredded mozzarella & shredded Vermont white cheddar.

Peanut Oil: 1-1/2 to 2 oz of peanut oil in the pan (more may be necessary to avoid sticking if the pan is not well seasoned)

Kosher Salt: a few pinches prior to topping

Instructions and order of ingredients is shown in the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yJ7sdzWTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yJ7sdzWTg)

Hope everyone enjoys this. I'm not exactly an expert in using iMovie and did this video with no camera help so it may be a bit rough but it will show you the techniques used to make this pizza.

Hope all of the VP pizza fans enjoy.

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: buceriasdon on November 16, 2011, 04:38:55 PM
Thanks steel baker. I will give this a go soon. Good job on the vid.
Don
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: NepaBill on November 17, 2011, 07:42:41 AM
Video is awesome Steel Baker!!!  Good Job!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on November 17, 2011, 09:28:59 AM
steel_baker,

I also agree you did a great job on the video!  :)  I want to try a Victory Pig style pizza one of these days too.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: RICO on November 18, 2011, 12:52:02 AM
Bravo!  Just finished watching this an enjoyed every bit of it.

As a "noob", I especially appreciated your illustrating weighing everything directly in the bowl.  I suppose this is standard practice with a lot of you, but I wouldn't have thought to use the zero/tare function of my scale like that.  At least not right away.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaHog on November 19, 2011, 11:11:59 AM
Great job and great looking pie there SB!
I have never tried the repeated rises and punch downs on Silician type style.  Can you comment on what difference this makes for you?
Thanks for sharing,
Hog
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 19, 2011, 11:34:02 AM
Great job and great looking pie there SB!
I have never tried the repeated rises and punch downs on Silician type style.  Can you comment on what difference this makes for you?
Thanks for sharing,
Hog

I believe that it's done primarily just to accomplish the stretch necessary to fill the pans corner to corner & edge to edge. With every successive rise it becomes easier to stretch. I also normally do a cold ferment overnight. I use polycarbonate containers that I spray with cooking spray, seal them with lids, and stack them in my garage fridge overnight. Because the containers are square, it also gives me a head start on the stretch to rectangular shape when I put them in the pans. I generally try to put the dough into the pans at least 4 hours before baking. Pictures of the containers are in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

If I were running a pizza restaurant serving this pizza, the weighed dough balls would go right into the oiled pans , given the initial stretch as in the video, and then into a proofing cabinet to sit before a final stretch, topping, and bake. I'd probably get about 50 trays ahead to start the day. The real VP restaurant uses several senior ladies (italian grandmothers?) to do the stretching & topping. They only make pizza on wednesdays, fridays, & saturdays from 4:00 until 10:00. That's the only time they're open and they have made a fortune over the years (and they're cash only).
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 19, 2011, 04:17:15 PM
Here are some pics of the finished product after it is cut & served. Don't know why I didn't post these before. Note the broccoli & garlic tray.Wonderful texture & flavor.

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on November 20, 2011, 09:26:45 AM
 HI

  Was wondering, since I have a few of these type of black steel pan, have you ever tried to make 2 pies at once.

  Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 20, 2011, 09:31:12 AM
HI

  Was wondering, since I have a few of these type of black steel pan, have you ever tried to make 2 pies at once.

  Chet

I generally make three trays when I make pizza. I only have one baking at a time though. Even though I have a high end Wolf Dual Fuel range, I'm just not confident that the airflow in the oven would be sufficient to evenly bake two trays at once. If it was a 36" or bigger oven, I would try it. But at 30", it's just too iffy since I can't fit two pans on the same rack at the same time.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on November 20, 2011, 07:33:03 PM
Thanks for the great video steelbaker!  You got me hungry for Victory Pig Pizza, and I took the family down for a tray.  Unique and tasty pizza, with crisp greasy crust, bright tomato flavor and good cheese topping. As always, a hit with the family.  About 60 bucks with tip for a family of six with sodas.  Could probably save 50 bucks by following your recipe!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on November 20, 2011, 08:53:33 PM
Pics from last night at the Victory Pig.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on November 20, 2011, 08:58:29 PM


  Steel Baker

  You mentioned you put your dough in the fridge for an overnight ferment. do you put it in the fridge right after the dough is kneaded for 15 min.

   Chet

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 20, 2011, 09:50:26 PM

  Steel Baker

  You mentioned you put your dough in the fridge for an overnight ferment. do you put it in the fridge right after the dough is kneaded for 15 min.

   Chet


Chet,

After the dough ball comes together, I let it rest for 15 minutes, then I knead it for 6-8 mins. Then into the fridge overnight.

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 20, 2011, 10:00:12 PM
Thanks for the great video steelbaker!  You got me hungry for Victory Pig Pizza, and I took the family down for a tray.  Unique and tasty pizza, with crisp greasy crust, bright tomato flavor and good cheese topping. As always, a hit with the family.  About 60 bucks with tip for a family of six with sodas.  Could probably save 50 bucks by following your recipe!

You're welcome communist. VP pizza has always been somewhat of an obsession with me. My recipe is very close. I made some tonight for my wife's birthday get together. Made 3 trays, 2 regular, 1 sausage & peppers.

Here are some pics of the sausage & peppers tray that I made. It looked so pretty I had to take pictures of it. I baked it an extra 1-1/2 minutes since there were more toppings (especially with the peppers & the water they contain). I wanted to make sure it was fully baked. Also, on tonight's trays, I started adding some extra cheese around the edges of the pan to get a nice crispy cheese crust on the edges. Similar to the Buddy's Detroit style pizza. You can really notice the cheese crust around the edges in these pictures.

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on November 20, 2011, 11:29:52 PM
   Steel Baker


     You know that if the owner of VP logs on, He just might ask you for your recipe rights (LOL) keep up the nice work.

       Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 21, 2011, 07:41:10 AM
   Steel Baker


     You know that if the owner of VP logs on, He just might ask you for your recipe rights (LOL) keep up the nice work.

       Chet

I'll just tell him that I'll show him mine if he shows me his.  :-D :-D :-D

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Jet_deck on November 21, 2011, 08:48:35 AM
Excellent video steel_baker. Sorry if you already covered this, but what is your preferred type of flour? (I know you say bread flour, but any particular brand that continues to work the way you expect?)  Thanks for the thorough video, very well presented and easy enough to follow. :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 21, 2011, 08:52:10 AM
Excellent video steel_baker. Sorry if you already covered this, but what is your preferred type of flour? (I know you say bread flour, but any particular brand that continues to work the way you expect?)  Thanks for the thorough video, very well presented and easy enough to follow. :chef:

Thanks Jet_Deck. Nothing special on the flour. I use any type of bread flour I can get. I usually buy 25 lb bags from either Costco or Sam's Club & store it in airtight bulk containers.

Steel_Baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on November 21, 2011, 09:36:00 AM
 Steel Baker

  IF you remember where Plains is, it's the time of the year when the leaves are falling, I can almost tell you if VP is open or closed with my binocs, about 1/2 mile across the river. I don't know if you knew but there are 3 or 4 pizza places in the area all run by members of the family under different names. Pizza Perfect, Pizza Lovin, Victory Pig and the last one is their last name. don't want to mention it online.


                Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 21, 2011, 09:40:09 AM
Steel Baker

  IF you remember where Plains is, it's the time of the year when the leaves are falling, I can almost tell you if VP is open or closed with my binocs, about 1/2 mile across the river. I don't know if you knew but there are 3 or 4 pizza places in the area all run by members of the family under different names. Pizza Perfect, Pizza Lovin, Victory Pig and the last one is their last name. don't want to mention it online.


                Chet

I very familiar with Plains. My father was born there and I was born, grew up, and lived in Kingston for 37 years before moving here to western PA. Was not aware that Pizza Perfect folks were related but I know the owner of Pizza L'oven because my mother was friends with his mother. Perhach is his last name I believe and he worked in the VP kitchen as a teenager which is why he knew how to make it. He was the first of the imitators and built a good business from it. Don't think he was related to the "C" family though.

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on November 21, 2011, 08:45:26 PM


  Steel Baker

    Would you PM me your last name and where in Plains did you reside, did you remember a Bar on Hudson rd that sold Italian Foods and a good pizza. it was on a corner near St Peter & Pauls church.

                      Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on November 22, 2011, 06:54:44 PM
    Hello Steel Baker

   First Off I want to say the pizza really surprised my wife & I. t was the best sicilian I have made, dough texture was almost perfect, the next time I will bake at 450 deg rather than 475, 475 in my oven seemed to be browning the cheese a little prematurely, at 10 min I had to take the pie out, almost perfect but to my wife it was delicious. your recipe has some magic to it, your procedure worked great, I used my all time favorite GM Full strength and the Classico peeled ground tomatoes from WalMart, I will make this recipe again.  It is so close to VP pizza, good job Steel Baker

    Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 22, 2011, 06:59:26 PM
    Hello Steel Baker

   First Off I want to say the pizza really surprised my wife & I. t was the best sicilian I have made, dough texture was almost perfect, the next time I will bake at 450 deg rather than 475, 475 in my oven seemed to be browning the cheese a little prematurely, at 10 min I had to take the pie out, almost perfect but to my wife it was delicious. your recipe has some magic to it, your procedure worked great, I used my all time favorite GM Full strength and the Classico peeled ground tomatoes from WalMart, I will make this recipe again.  It is so close to VP pizza, good job Steel Baker

    Chet

Thanks Chet, glad you & your wife enjoyed it.  :chef:

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: apizza on November 22, 2011, 07:05:59 PM
s_b
 Great video. Are you the next Food Network Star? I really liked the fact that you gave the whole process plenty of time.
Marty
Title: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA- Full recipe & method
Post by: steel_baker on November 30, 2011, 01:40:37 PM
This recipe is portioned for use with a 12x17 pan. If adjusting for different sized pans, do not increase the amount of yeast unless the recipe is more than doubled. Reduce yeast proportionately if reducing the recipe size.

1. The sauce: The sauce is very simple, a can of good quality crushed tomatoes with a finely chopped medium white onion mixed in and a pinch of kosher salt. This sauce is not cooked or spiced at all, simply chop the onions and mix them into the crushed tomatoes. Please note that (1) 28oz can of crushed tomatoes with the recommended amount of onion will top (4) 12x17 trays so be sure to adjust your topping amount accordingly.

   TIP: use one of those kitchen-chopping gadgets to chop the onions very fine, not a knife. Not only is it faster & easier, there are no tears. Remember, very finely chopped. There are no chunks of onion in this style of pizza, just the onion flavor.


2. The cheese: The cheese is a 50:50 mixture of shredded mozzarella & white cheddar (Wisconsin or Vermont) cheeses.


3. The dough: The dough is a basic pizza dough recipe. This recipe will yield an approximately 1-3/4 lb dough ball. The sugar & oil are optional but do contribute to the browning & softness of the crust if used.

Combine the following ingredients in a bowl or mixer in the following order:

9.8 oz of bottled water (just under 1-1/4 cups)                            
2 tsp sugar                                
1 tsp olive oil                                                                      
3-1/4 cups of high gluten bread flour
2 tsp salt
2-1/4 tsp instant yeast (this is 1 packet of bread maker yeast)

After forming all ingredients into a single dough ball, let rest for 15 minutes, then knead thoroughly for 6 minutes. Put ¼ cup peanut oil into 12x17 blue steel pan (higher sides are better). Stretch dough to cover about 2/3 of the pan. Cover the pan with plastic wrap to keep the moisture in & prevent the dough from “skinning”.

After 1-2 hours, remove plastic wrap & knock the dough down & stretch to fill the pan. Pull dough up along the sides of the pan and into the corners. Re-cover with plastic and give dough enough rise time to fill the pan. 30 minutes to 1 hours should be enough.

Uncover dough, sprinkle a pinch of kosher salt on top then top the pizza with the sauce & cheese. Be sure NOT to knock the dough down while you’re topping it. This will only require a few tablespoons of sauce & a handful of cheese, both evenly spread. This Pizza is not loaded with sauce & cheese so top evenly & moderately to maintain the balance of flavors.
 
Bake in a 450-475 degree oven on bottom rack for 12-15 minutes until the cheese appears to just start to burn. At this point, the crust should be crispy, browned, & fried.

For the experienced pizza bakers on the forum, here is the weight based recipe that I normally use:

Pizza Dough 12x17 pan   

Flour               | 100%  | 409g
Water              |   67%  |  274g
Salt                 |  2.0%  |      8g
Sugar              |  2.0%  |      8g
IDY                 |  2.0%  |      8g
Olive oil           |  1.0%  |      4g

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: michelle9491 on November 30, 2011, 06:25:36 PM
Hi SB, I have a few questions. How does the sugar & oil affect the softness & browning? And do you cook the sauce or just chop it all up & put on pizza? Also have you prebaked the crust & if so what affect does that have on it? Thanks!! Your pizzas look amazing!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 30, 2011, 06:45:28 PM
Hi SB, I have a few questions. How does the sugar & oil affect the softness & browning? And do you cook the sauce or just chop it all up & put on pizza? Also have you prebaked the crust & if so what affect does that have on it? Thanks!! Your pizzas look amazing!

Hi Michelle,

1. Sugar promotes browning in dough products just as it browns & caramelizes when cooking. Oil provides a softness & richer feel to baked goods.
2. The sauce is not cooked or spiced at all per the above posts.
3. No pre-baking. As the recipe indicates above, the raw dough is topped, then baked.

Here is a link to post #21 above which details the recipe & technique and also links to a Youtube video that I did to demonstrate the techniques.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg160058.html#msg160058

Thanks,

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: patdakat345 on December 01, 2011, 10:17:18 AM
Steel Baker
My question is after the dough is fermented overnight in the refrigerator, do you allow it to warm up or do you immediately place it into the oiled pan and do the stretching?

pat
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 01, 2011, 10:43:35 AM
Steel Baker
My question is after the dough is fermented overnight in the refrigerator, do you allow it to warm up or do you immediately place it into the oiled pan and do the stretching?

pat

It immediately goes into the pan and gets the first stretch.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: patdakat345 on December 01, 2011, 03:16:07 PM
Thanks for the info Steel Baker. This has been quite a thread. I appreciate the effort you have put into it.
What I have done is to condense all the info in this thread and You Tube into step by step instructions in the attachment
that I have included. I would appreciate any comments or corrections. Maybe somebody else will find it useful.

pat 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 01, 2011, 06:25:30 PM
Thanks for the info Steel Baker. This has been quite a thread. I appreciate the effort you have put into it.
What I have done is to condense all the info in this thread and You Tube into step by step instructions in the attachment
that I have included. I would appreciate any comments or corrections. Maybe somebody else will find it useful.

pat 

Looks good, thanks. This pizza has been an obsession of mine since I first started trying to make it in the '70's. Having grown up with so many great pizzas in NE PA, I felt like I had to document this style as much as I could.

I'll be making a tray for dinner tomorrow evening. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Jackie Tran on December 01, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
SB, as a point of clarification, padakat's attachment says HG bread flour.  Is this correct?  Do you use BF or HG flour, or is there a HGBF? I usually see either BF or HG flour but not HGBF.  Or is perhaps HGBF really just short for HG flour?

Thanks,
Chau
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 01, 2011, 07:33:53 PM
SB, as a point of clarification, padakat's attachment says HG bread flour.  Is this correct?  Do you use BF or HG flour, or is there a HGBF? I usually see either BF or HG flour but not HGBF.  Or is perhaps HGBF really just short for HG flour?

Thanks,
Chau

Either will work fine. I use Bread Flour. I think some people refer to all bread four as High Gluten Bread Flour. I've referred to it that way previously as a novice  pizza baker. :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Jackie Tran on December 01, 2011, 07:45:06 PM
Either will work fine. I use Bread Flour. I think some people refer to all bread four as High Gluten Bread Flour. I've referred to it that way previously as a novice  pizza baker. :chef:

Ok thanks,  I hope to give your recipe a try soon.  Thank you for sharing this.

Chau
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: patdakat345 on December 02, 2011, 06:50:21 AM
This morning in my E-mail I received a newsletter from Americas Test Kitchen for pan pizza.
Yours is equivalent to a Lamborghini and theirs, compared to yours, is a Yugo.
I'll be trying this next week. Thanks for all the help.

pat
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on December 02, 2011, 04:51:24 PM


   Steel Baker
 
  I might have missed it if you mentioned it, but when you make 2 pies do you double the recipe, I made a double recipe yesterday for tonight's pies using a bread machine for the kneading


   Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 02, 2011, 05:09:09 PM
steel_baker,

You did a very nice job with the video.

I'd like to take a stab at calculating the thickness factor for your recipe so that it can be used in one of the dough calculating tools to make pizzas for different sizes of pans than the one you used in the video. However, I note that you indicated the weight of the IDY to be 9 grams in one post and 8 grams in another. The standard weight for a packet of IDY is 7 grams. You didn't weigh the IDY for the video but I assume that the number I would use is 7 grams. For the rest of the ingredients, I would use the weights that you measured out in the video (except for the oil). Does this sound like the correct approach to take?

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 02, 2011, 05:39:47 PM
steel_baker,

You did a very nice job with the video.

I'd like to take a stab at calculating the thickness factor for your recipe so that it can be used in one of the dough calculating tools to make pizzas for different sizes of pans than the one you used in the video. However, I note that you indicated the weight of the IDY to be 9 grams in one post and 8 grams in another. The standard weight for a packet of IDY is 7 grams. You didn't weigh the IDY for the video but I assume that the number I would use is 7 grams. For the rest of the ingredients, I would use the weights that you measured out in the video (except for the oil). Does this sound like the correct approach to take?

Peter

Thanks Peter. Yes, that's fine. I buy my IDY in 1lb packages at Costco & weigh it in. When I used the bread maker yeast 2-1/4 tsp packets, I never weighed them in. I don't think the weight is too critical here whether it's 7, 8, or 9 grams. :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 02, 2011, 05:43:06 PM

   Steel Baker
 
  I might have missed it if you mentioned it, but when you make 2 pies do you double the recipe, I made a double recipe yesterday for tonight's pies using a bread machine for the kneading


   Chet


My inclination would be to say yes, double the recipe. I usually make one dough ball at a time so I haven't really thought about that before.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 02, 2011, 06:28:32 PM
s_b,

I forgot to ask you if the salt that is used in the dough is Kosher salt (since that is what you put on the dough when in the pan) and, if so, what brand?

Also, have you ever practiced your recipe using a round pan, like a deep-dish pan?

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 02, 2011, 06:34:24 PM
s_b,

I forgot to ask you if the salt that is used in the dough is Kosher salt (since that is what you put on the dough when in the pan) and, if so, what brand?

Also, have you ever practiced your recipe using a round pan, like a deep-dish pan?

Peter

I use Morton's Kosher Salt. The only round pies I've done have been early on (nearly 2 years ago) when I first figured out the techniques & flavors. I used to do a smaller batch in a 12" cast iron skillet since I didn't have any blue steel pans at the time. Other than that, I haven't really experimented with round pans. Primarily because the authentic VP pizza is rectangular and is baked in blue steel pans. At the time, the supplier of the pans was a local restaurant supply house in northeastern PA. They told me that VP used Nash Blue Steel pans. Their pans were 12"x36".

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 02, 2011, 07:54:37 PM
Using the weight data for the dough formulation given at the bottom of Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161538.html#msg161538, I calculated the weight of the dough for that formulation, and I also calculated the baker's percents for all of the ingredients. The total dough weight is 711 grams. Using that weight and the baker's percents in the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, steel_baker's dough formulation looks like this:

Bread Flour (100%):
Water (Bottled) (66.993%):
IDY (1.956%):
Salt (Morton's Kosher) (1.956%):
Olive Oil (0.978%):
Sugar (1.956%):
Total (173.839%):
409 g  |  14.43 oz | 0.9 lbs
274 g  |  9.66 oz | 0.6 lbs
8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.66 tsp | 0.89 tbsp
8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.67 tsp | 0.56 tbsp
4 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
8 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.01 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
711 g | 25.08 oz | 1.57 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The amount of dough is for a 12" x 17" sloping-sided blue steel pan; the bread flour used by steel_baker is from Costco or Sam's Club; no bowl residue compensation.

It will be noted that the volume numbers as set forth above are a bit different than some of steel_bakers volume numbers. That is because the conversion values embedded in the expanded dough calculating tool are different than what steel_baker has indicated. I also did not round out numbers. However, the differences should not have a material effect on the final results. Also, as steel_baker noted, one can also use a packet of IDY instead of weighing out the actual amount recited in his dough formulation, with no material effect on the final results.

The value of thickness factor that corresponds to steel_baker's dough is (711/28.35)/(12 x 17) = 0.122938. That is the value that should be used in the expanded dough calculating tool if one wishes to use a different size pan than the 12" x 17" pan that steel_baker uses. The other entries for the expanded dough calculating tool are the baker's percents noted above and the pan dimensions (using the Rectangular option). To give an example, I read recently that Norma purchased an 8" x 10" sloping-sided steel pan. If she wants to make a VP style pizza using that pan, which I believe she said she wanted to do, then the dough formulation for that purpose would look like this:

Bread Flour (100%):
Water (Bottled) (66.993%):
IDY (1.956%):
Salt (Morton's Kosher) (1.956%):
Olive Oil (0.978%):
Sugar (1.956%):
Total (173.839%):
160.39 g  |  5.66 oz | 0.35 lbs
107.45 g  |  3.79 oz | 0.24 lbs
3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.65 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
1.57 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.79 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
278.82 g | 9.84 oz | 0.61 lbs | TF = 0.122938
Note: The amount of dough is for an 8" x 10" sloping-sided blue steel pan; no bowl residue compensation

Of course, if one does not have Kosher salt on hand, it is possible to substitute regular table salt. The baker's percents are the same for both forms of salt. The expanded dough calculating tool will produce the right conversions to volume measurements. It is also possible to use a bowl residue compensation. For my KitchenAid stand mixer, I have found a value of 1.5% to be a good value. I also suspect that the results will not materially change if one has straight-sided pans rather than sloping-sided pans. The crust thickness is not so large as to make a material difference.

Now, there is little reason or excuse for one not to try out steel_baker's recipe to make other sizes of pizzas. Using the thickness factor option in the expanded dough calculating tool, one can even make round versions of steel_baker's dough formulation. Of course, when changing pizza sizes and shapes, one may have to monitor the baking of the pizza so that it does not come out overbaked or underbaked.

Peter


Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 02, 2011, 07:57:28 PM
Looks great Peter. Thanks for your hard work. ;)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: buceriasdon on December 02, 2011, 08:04:47 PM
Thank you Peter, Good job. :D
Don
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 02, 2011, 10:53:18 PM
Thanks Peter for setting-forth steel_baker’s formulation in baker percent.  I did post at Reply 24 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg160142.html#msg160142 that I wanted to try steel_baker’s Victory Pig style pizza.  My new steel pans are 8”x10” and 12”x17”.

Thanks steel_baker for your for all your hard work in recreating this style of pizza.  I live in Pa., but never tried a Victory Pig pizza.  Looking forward to trying this style of pizza.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 05, 2011, 07:36:53 AM
Steel_baker,

I mixed a dough for the Victory Pig style pizza last evening.  I don’t know if I used the right kind of flour or not, but I used Better for Bread flour.  I also reduced the amount of IDY to 2 grams because I am trying a two day cold ferment.  I found the Vermont Cabot sharp white cheddar at my local supermarket, so I will use that in combination with mozzarella. Do you have any idea of how much of the cheese blend I should use for a 8”x10” pan?  I used Peter’s formulation for a 8”x10” Victory Pig except for the yeast amount.  I did use the same mixing regime you posted in your video.

I will let you know how the pizza turns out after the pizza is baked on Tuesday.

This is how the dough looks this morning.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 05, 2011, 07:41:59 AM
I generally use approx 8oz of the cheese blend for each 12x17 pan I bake so just using the same ratio based upon the area of the pan should give you a  number of just over 3 oz of cheese. :pizza:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 05, 2011, 08:01:18 AM
I generally use approx 8oz of the cheese blend for each 12x17 pan I bake so just using the same ratio based upon the area of the pan should give you a  number of just over 3 oz of cheese. :pizza:

steel_baker,

Thanks for telling me what amount of the cheese blend to try for the size pan I am using!  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 05, 2011, 08:44:49 AM
Norma,

I know you aren't crazy about math, but the calculation for the cheese blend is (8 x 10)/(12 x 17) x 8 = 3.14 ounces, or about 79.5 grams. Half of that will be cheddar and the other half will be the mozzarella cheese.

You didn't ask how much crushed tomato or onion or peanut oil to use with your 8" x 10" pan, but the ratio of the areas of the two pans, 0.392, also applies to those three items. (Note: one can of crushed tomatoes and the half-onion are for four pizzas in the 12" x 17" pan.)

So:

Crushed tomatoes = (0.392 x 28 ounces)/4 = 2.74 ounces, or about 77.8 grams, by weight
Onion = (0.392 x 1/2 onion)/4 = 0.049, or about a twentieth of an onion (or one fifth of a quarter section of onion, which can be eyeballed)
Peanut oil (1 1/2 to 2 ounces, by volume, for the pan) = 0.392 x 1.5 = 0.59 ounces to 0.392 x 2 = 0.784 ounces, by volume (this is about 3 3/4 t. to about 5 t.)

The same approach applies to round pizzas also, as you can see from Tom Lehmann's posts in this thread from the PMQ Think Tank: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6169&hilit=.

Peter

Edit (12/7/11): Edited to note that one can of tomatoes and the half-onion are for four pizzas in a 12" x 17" pan and to correct the amounts of crushed tomatoes and onion to be used with an 8" x 10" pan.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 05, 2011, 08:53:39 AM
Norma,

Just to add some local knowledge regarding VP pizza, it's not a heavily topped pizza. The star of this pizza is the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and the hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce. With that in mind, it's important to not use too much sauce or cheese. People who have done this (I think we all have that tendency when making pizza) find that the dough doesn't cook properly in the center. I am absolutely anal when it comes to "balance" in pizza. Too many restaurants that think they make wonderful pizza don't understand that a great pizza is one that is balanced. It must have a great crust and the proper (as in not too much) topping.

The mouth feel of this pizza has a crispy bottom and a soft rich top. The juxtaposition of those textures combined with the flavor is one of the qualities in this pizza that makes it so amazing and makes people come back for it again & again.

I take it from your location that you're in SE PA, probably in Berks, Adams, or Lancaster County. This would put Victory Pig at only a 2 hr drive for you. Take a drive up to the Victory Pig BBQ in Wyoming sometime & check it out.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 05, 2011, 09:27:20 AM
Norma,

I know you aren't crazy about math, but the calculation for the cheese blend is (8 x 10)/(12 x 17) x 8 = 3.14 ounces, or about 79.5 grams. Half of that will be cheddar and the other half will be the mozzarella cheese.

You didn't ask how much crushed tomato or onion or peanut oil to use with your 8" x 10" pan, but the ratio of the areas of the two pans, 0.392, also applies to those three items.

So:

Crushed tomatoes = 0.392 x 28 ounces = 10.98 ounces (or 11 ounces rounded), or about 311 grams, by weight
Onion = 0.392 x 1/2 onion = 0.195, or about a fifth of an onion
Peanut oil (1 1/2 to 2 ounces, by volume, for the pan) = 0.392 x 1.5 = 0.59 ounces to 0.392 x 2 = 0.784 ounces, by volume (this is about 3 3/4 t. to about 5 t.)

The same approach applies to round pizzas also, as you can see from Tom Lehmann's posts in this thread from the PMQ Think Tank: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6169&hilit=.

Peter

Peter,

It isn’t that I am not crazy about math, but never learned to understand how to do math, except for easy math problems.  I would need a tutor at my age to be able to understand how to do anything other than easy math. 

Thanks for doing the calculations for the cheddar mozzarella blend, crushed tomatoes, onions, and peanut oil to use for the 8”x10” steel pan.

Thanks also for the link where Tom Lehmann also explains amounts for round pizzas.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 05, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
Norma,

Just to add some local knowledge regarding VP pizza, it's not a heavily topped pizza. The star of this pizza is the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and the hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce. With that in mind, it's important to not use too much sauce or cheese. People who have done this (I think we all have that tendency when making pizza) find that the dough doesn't cook properly in the center. I am absolutely anal when it comes to "balance" in pizza. Too many restaurants that think they make wonderful pizza don't understand that a great pizza is one that is balanced. It must have a great crust and the proper (as in not too much) topping.

The mouth feel of this pizza has a crispy bottom and a soft rich top. The juxtaposition of those textures combined with the flavor is one of the qualities in this pizza that makes it so amazing and makes people come back for it again & again.

I take it from your location that you're in SE PA, probably in Berks, Adams, or Lancaster County. This would put Victory Pig at only a 2 hr drive for you. Take a drive up to the Victory Pig BBQ in Wyoming sometime & check it out.



steel_baker,

Thanks for adding some local knowledge regarding VP pizza.  I would like to taste the wonderful crispy bottomed crust and hint of onion flavor with the tomatoes in the sauce.  I can understand why it is important not to use too much sauce or cheese.  I agree that many restaurants think they can make wonderful pizza, but really don’t understand what a great pizza is. 

My location is in Lancaster County.  I will have to see if I can persuade my daughter into driving me to Wyoming to try a real VP pizza.  She has driven me to Wildwood, NJ, Washington DC, and NY different times to try pizzas.  I guess I am what can be called a pizza addict (I hate to admit that  :-D), in that I want to be able to understand how great pizzas taste and also want to learn what goes into making really good pizzas.

I am not sure how my VP attempt will go the first time because my pan is new and I will be using a deck oven baking at 525 degrees F. (that is the temperature I bake my normal pies at market)  If my first attempt doesn’t work, I will try your VP recipe in my home oven.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on December 07, 2011, 08:57:09 AM
Norma, Did you get a chance to bake the VP style pizza yesterday?  I was concerned about cooking the pie at 525 - I think there is a good chance the oil will burn.  I believe Peter has written about sources for the blue steel pans where you can order them individually through Northern Pizza Supply.  I am still debating whether I will try to duplicate at home.  I am near Victory Pig, and many other shops duplicate the greasy, crunchy crust of the style sometimes referred to as bakery pizza.  It is a welcome and tasty variation.  Mark
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 09:12:14 AM
Norma, Did you get a chance to bake the VP style pizza yesterday?  I was concerned about cooking the pie at 525 - I think there is a good chance the oil will burn.  I believe Peter has written about sources for the blue steel pans where you can order them individually through Northern Pizza Supply.  I am still debating whether I will try to duplicate at home.  I am near Victory Pig, and many other shops duplicate the greasy, crunchy crust of the style sometimes referred to as bakery pizza.  It is a welcome and tasty variation.  Mark

Mark,

I did make an attempt at the Victory Pig pizza yesterday and I used 525 degrees F baked on the deck.  After I resize the pictures and write-up what happened, I will post the pictures.

I have to read back though this thread, because I used 11 oz. of crushed tomatoes and that seemed like way too much sauce to be added.  The amount of cheese added seemed right at 3.14 ounces.  I used 5 teaspoons of peanut oil and that also seemed about right.  

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 07, 2011, 09:21:47 AM
Norma,

Wow, 11 oz of crushed tomato sauce per pie is definitely way too much. I am able to top (4) 12x17 trays with a 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes. If you're using 8x10 pans, just using the ratio based upon the area of the pans you should be using (28/4) x .39 = 2.73oz of crushed tomatoes per pie. This is based upon the act that the area of an 8x10 pan is 39% of the area of a 12x17 pan.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 07, 2011, 09:46:07 AM
Ah. Now I see what happened. When I looked at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg160058.html#msg160058 and Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161538.html#msg161538, all I saw was one can of tomatoes in relation to a 12" x 17" pan and no reference to that quantity being for several pizzas. However, had I been more alert, I should have known when I posted Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg162256.html#msg162256 that about 11 ounces of tomatoes was far too much for an 8" x 10" pan.

It might also help to know if the half onion is also enough for several pizzas or whether that is the correct amount for just a single pizza.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 07, 2011, 10:14:52 AM
Ah. Now I see what happened. When I looked at Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg160058.html#msg160058 and Reply 46 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161538.html#msg161538, all I saw was one can of tomatoes in relation to a 12" x 17" pan and no reference to that quantity being for several pizzas. However, had I been more alert, I should have known when I posted Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg162256.html#msg162256 that about 11 ounces of tomatoes was far too much for an 8" x 10" pan.

It might also help to know if the half onion is also enough for several pizzas or whether that is the correct amount for just a single pizza.

Peter

Peter, the 1/2 onion is for mixing with an entire can of crushed tomatoes. This much onion in a 28oz can of crushed tomatoes will top (4) 12x17 pans of pizza. My fault, I still think as a home pizza baker and eyeball my toppings rather than measure. I know that if I ever decide to start making & selling this pizza in my area I'll need to be precise in my ingredient amounts to maintain flavor & consistency from tray to tray.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 10:56:50 AM
Norma,

Wow, 11 oz of crushed tomato sauce per pie is definitely way too much. I am able to top (4) 12x17 trays with a 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes. If you're using 8x10 pans, just using the ratio based upon the area of the pans you should be using (28/4) x .39 = 2.73oz of crushed tomatoes per pie. This is based upon the act that the area of an 8x10 pan is 39% of the area of a 12x17 pan.

s_b

steel_baker,

I thought when I looked at the 11 ounces of crushed tomatoes that would be way too much to add, when I know how much sauce I add to my regular pizzas. I had watched your video and saw you didn’t add much crushed tomatoes with onions to your VP pie. I should have gone on my instincts.  :-D I also used 1/5 of a big Spanish onion chopped fine which was way too much for my tastes, but some of my taste testers did like that amount of crushed onions added.  

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 07, 2011, 11:06:07 AM
s_b,

I corrected Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg162256.html#msg162256 to reflect the correct amounts of crushed tomatoes and onion to use for a single pizza in an 8" x 10" pan. You might want to edit your earlier posts to note that a full can (28 ounces) of crushed tomatoes and a half-onion are for four pizzas using the 12" x 17" pan. Otherwise, people following your posts literally may fall into the same trap as I did, although hopefully they would catch the error during assembly of the pizza or they would have seen from your video that the amount of sauce is quite modest.

It is actually quite funny how I came to post Reply 70. I have worked so much and for so long with Norma that I thought that I reached the point where I could read her mind and that after we got the amount of cheese blend resolved, she would come back with followup questions on the amount of crushed tomatoes and onion to use (and maybe the amount of oil for her 8" x 10" pan). So, I tried to preempt those questions. I suppose it was a good thing to do since that highlighted the issue of how much crushed tomato and onion should be used, either for your recipe of the one I came up with for Norma.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 07, 2011, 11:18:35 AM
Peter,

I was able to correct post #46 to add a note regarding the tomatoes but am unable to correct post #21 which also shows the sauce recipe because it has no "Modify" button to click.

Thanks
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 07, 2011, 11:26:10 AM
I was able to correct post #46 to add a note regarding the tomatoes but am unable to correct post #21 which also shows the sauce recipe because it has no "Modify" button to click.

s_b,

As a Moderator, I am able to do things that other members cannot. I believe that there is a time limit within which members can modify an existing post. So, I went back to Reply 21 and edited it along the same lines as you edited Reply 21. I think we are now all set. Thanks.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:35:14 AM
s_b,

I corrected Reply 70 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg162256.html#msg162256 to reflect the correct amounts of crushed tomatoes and onion to use for a single pizza in an 8" x 10" pan. You might want to edit your earlier posts to note that a full can (28 ounces) of crushed tomatoes and a half-onion are for four pizzas using the 12" x 17" pan. Otherwise, people following your posts literally may fall into the same trap as I did, although hopefully they would catch the error during assembly of the pizza or they would have seen from your video that the amount of sauce is quite modest.

It is actually quite funny how I came to post Reply 70. I have worked so much and for so long with Norma that I thought that I reached the point where I could read her mind and that after we got the amount of cheese blend resolved, she would come back with followup questions on the amount of crushed tomatoes and onion to use (and maybe the amount of oil for her 8" x 10" pan). So, I tried to preempt those questions. I suppose it was a good thing to do since that highlighted the issue of how much crushed tomato and onion should be used, either for your recipe of the one I came up with for Norma.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for correcting the amounts of crushed tomatoes and onion to use for a single pizza in a 8”x10” pan.  I think it also funny how you thought you could read my mind. I usually ask more questions, but this is one time I didn’t. I know you do all calculating exactly whenever you are doing a formulation, and didn’t even think to ask you anything.  I looked at the amount of crushed tomatoes and onions to add and thought that looked like a lot for such a small pizza, but I went ahead and used those amounts.  :-D I knew something was wrong yesterday.  I know you have helped me a lot in the past and I do appreciate all the help!

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:41:02 AM
So, here is my attempt at the clone VP pizza steel_baker posted about.  It went okay, but there were a few things I didn’t do right.  I will make another attempt next week for a steel_baker's clone VP pizza.

I added too much sauce and I don’t know if it was the sauce, my baked temperature, or how long I baked the pie that gave me the results I had.  It could have been any of the variables listed above.

I saw the pie was browning on the bottom of the steel pan and it looked about finished to me, but when it was taken out of the pan I really don’t think the crumb was baked enough.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:42:17 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:43:14 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:43:59 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:44:56 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:46:16 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 11:46:49 AM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 07, 2011, 11:52:29 AM
Norma,

You might have noted that in Reply 70 I mentioned how much of a medium white onion to use for an 8" x 10" pizza. Maybe sometime when I have a medium white onion on hand I can determine how much 1/20th of it weighs. Then that weight can be used as a conversion factor for any size pizza.

Looking at the photos of your recent effort, I believe it was the excessive amount of tomatoes in relation to everything else that affected the bake of the pizza. I'm confident that your next effort with the right quantities of crushed tomatoes and onion will be much better. Even as it is, I like the looks of your pizza, especially the bottom of the crust.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 07, 2011, 11:59:20 AM
Norma,

You might have noted that in Reply 70 I mentioned how much of a medium white onion to use for an 8" x 10" pizza. Maybe sometime when I have a medium white onion on hand I can determine how much 1/20th of it weighs. Then that weight can be used as a conversion factor for any size pizza.

Looking at the photos of your recent effort, I believe it was the excessive amount of tomatoes in relation to everything else that affected the bake of the pizza. I'm confident that your next effort with the right quantities of crushed tomatoes and onion will be much better. Even as it is, I like the looks of your pizza, especially the bottom of the crust.

Peter

Norma,

I would agree with Peter here. I think that the amount of tomato sauce affected the full baking of the crust. Otherwise, it looks like you've nailed the crust. The crumb structure & browning appear as they should.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 12:20:32 PM
Norma,

You might have noted that in Reply 70 I mentioned how much of a medium white onion to use for an 8" x 10" pizza. Maybe sometime when I have a medium white onion on hand I can determine how much 1/20th of it weighs. Then that weight can be used as a conversion factor for any size pizza.

Looking at the photos of your recent effort, I believe it was the excessive amount of tomatoes in relation to everything else that affected the bake of the pizza. I'm confident that your next effort with the right quantities of crushed tomatoes and onion will be much better. Even as it is, I like the looks of your pizza, especially the bottom of the crust.

Peter

Peter,

I will take note of Reply 70 and make sure I go about my attempt next week at a Victory Pig clone in a better fashion. 

Thanks for telling me you think the excessive amount of tomatoes in relation to everything else did affect the bake of the pizza.  I also liked the bottom crust. 

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 12:23:30 PM
Norma,

I would agree with Peter here. I think that the amount of tomato sauce affected the full baking of the crust. Otherwise, it looks like you've nailed the crust. The crumb structure & browning appear as they should.

s_b

s_b,

Thanks for saying you agree with Peter that the amount of tomato sauce affected the full baking of the crust.  I will see how it goes next week.  Looking forward to being able to make your clone VP pizza.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 07, 2011, 04:11:50 PM
Maybe sometime when I have a medium white onion on hand I can determine how much 1/20th of it weighs. Then that weight can be used as a conversion factor for any size pizza.

According to the nutritiondata.self.com website, a "large" onion on average weighs 150 grams (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2501/2). Armed with that information, I decided to find such a white onion at my local supermarket. When I got there, I could not find anything that was remotely close to 150 grams. And they were all larger than 5 inches. They were not large. They were not even jumbo. They were Brobdingnagian!! I was afraid I was going to have to ask the produce manager to help me carry one of those onions to the checkout aisle. Otherwise, I would have had to roll it there. I decided to look elsewhere.

Fortunately, I was able to find a large white onion at another nearby market. When I got it home, I weighed it. It was 147 grams. Without the inedible outer skins and other parts, the weight was 144 grams. One-twentieth of that (for Norma's use) comes to a bit over 7 grams. By my estimation, that is between about 2 and 3 teaspoons when chopped in the normal manner, and maybe a bit less when reduced to the size that s_b described. I don't know what "large" means to s_b or what amount of chopped white onion he uses by weight for his 12" x 17" pizza, but a few teaspoons for Norma's use seems to me to be on the low side, even for a small amount of sauce. Perhaps s_d can tell us what his next "large" white onion weighs. That way, we will be working from numbers that work for him and, therefore, enable those who decide to try his recipe to more accurately replicate what he has done.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 07, 2011, 04:25:11 PM
According to the nutritiondata.self.com website, a "large" onion on average weighs 150 grams (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2501/2). Armed with that information, I decided to find such a white onion at my local supermarket. When I got there, I could not find anything that was remotely close to 150 grams. And they were all larger than 5 inches. They were not large. They were not even jumbo. They were Brobdingnagian!! I was afraid I was going to have to ask the produce manager to help me carry one of those onions to the checkout aisle. Otherwise, I would have had to roll it there. I decided to look elsewhere.

Fortunately, I was able to find a large white onion at another nearby market. When I got it home, I weighed it. It was 147 grams. Without the inedible outer skins and other parts, the weight was 144 grams. One-twentieth of that (for Norma's use) comes to a bit over 7 grams. By my estimation, that is between about 2 and 3 teaspoons when chopped in the normal manner, and maybe a bit less when reduced to the size that s_b described. I don't know what "large" means to s_b or what amount of chopped white onion he uses by weight for his 12" x 17" pizza, but a few teaspoons for Norma's use seems to me to be on the low side, even for a small amount of sauce. Perhaps s_d can tell us what his next "large" white onion weighs. That way, we will be working from numbers that work for him and, therefore, enable those who decide to try his recipe to more accurately replicate what he has done.

Peter

I'll wing it here. Based upon your 144 gram onion, half of that would be 72 grams I get (4) trays from a batch of sauce containing that 72 grams of onions so each tray should have 18 grams of onion. With Norma's 8x10 pan size at 39% of my 12x17, that should be 18 x 0.39 =just a bit over 7 grams so that's about right. I have found that the size of the onion is not too critical since with raw onion, the taste is strong enough to be dispersed throughout the sauce when you mix them together. Next time a make a batch of sauce, I'll weigh the onion so we can see what it actually does weigh.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 06:10:38 PM
According to the nutritiondata.self.com website, a "large" onion on average weighs 150 grams (http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2501/2). Armed with that information, I decided to find such a white onion at my local supermarket. When I got there, I could not find anything that was remotely close to 150 grams. And they were all larger than 5 inches. They were not large. They were not even jumbo. They were Brobdingnagian!! I was afraid I was going to have to ask the produce manager to help me carry one of those onions to the checkout aisle. Otherwise, I would have had to roll it there. I decided to look elsewhere.

Fortunately, I was able to find a large white onion at another nearby market. When I got it home, I weighed it. It was 147 grams. Without the inedible outer skins and other parts, the weight was 144 grams. One-twentieth of that (for Norma's use) comes to a bit over 7 grams. By my estimation, that is between about 2 and 3 teaspoons when chopped in the normal manner, and maybe a bit less when reduced to the size that s_b described. I don't know what "large" means to s_b or what amount of chopped white onion he uses by weight for his 12" x 17" pizza, but a few teaspoons for Norma's use seems to me to be on the low side, even for a small amount of sauce. Perhaps s_d can tell us what his next "large" white onion weighs. That way, we will be working from numbers that work for him and, therefore, enable those who decide to try his recipe to more accurately replicate what he has done.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the research on the onions at your supermarkets.  I know Texas is known for everything being big, but Texas must be in the imaginary “world of the giants” when it comes to onions.  :-D I don’t ordinarily use Spanish onions, but had just picked one out at the supermarket.  I really don’t like the taste of Spanish onions and I prefer white onions or red onions.  I know when I used my Cuisinart grinder for the Spanish onions they had me crying since they were so strong.  I will get a white onion for next weeks attempt.  Who would have thought you would have to do research on onions.  No wonder I thought the onion taste was so strong in the crushed tomato sauce.  Jeff, Mark, and Randy thought the onion taste was good in the sauce, but Steve and I both thought the onion taste was way too strong.

Norma

I'll wing it here. Based upon your 144 gram onion, half of that would be 72 grams I get (4) trays from a batch of sauce containing that 72 grams of onions so each tray should have 18 grams of onion. With Norma's 8x10 pan size at 39% of my 12x17, that should be 18 x 0.39 =just a bit over 7 grams so that's about right. I have found that the size of the onion is not too critical since with raw onion, the taste is strong enough to be dispersed throughout the sauce when you mix them together. Next time a make a batch of sauce, I'll weigh the onion so we can see what it actually does weigh.

s_b


s_d,

Thanks for posting you think about 7 grams of onion is about right.  :) What kind of onions do you prefer in your sauce?  Thanks also for saying next time you make a batch of sauce that you will weigh the onion so we all know what it exactly weighs.  

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 07, 2011, 06:13:28 PM

s_d,

Thanks for posting you think about 7 grams of onion is about right.  :) What kind of onions do you prefer in your sauce?  Thanks also for saying next time you make a batch of sauce that you will weigh the onion so we all know what it exactly weighs.  

Norma


Norma, I prefer white onions for the sauce. I just chop them extremely fine using a chopper. I know for a fact however that the VP restaurant slices them paper thin & lays them on top of the tomatoes & under the cheese when they top the pizza.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 06:29:19 PM
Norma, I prefer white onions for the sauce. I just chop them extremely fine using a chopper. I know for a fact however that the VP restaurant slices them paper thin & lays them on top of the tomatoes & under the cheese when they top the pizza.

s_b

s_b,

Thanks for telling me you prefer white onions for the sauce.  Does slicing the onions paper thin like the VP restaurant give the whole pizza any different taste?  Sorry to be asking all the questions.  I do have a Mandolin I could use. 

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 07, 2011, 06:34:38 PM
s_b,

Thanks for telling me you prefer white onions for the sauce.  Does slicing the onions paper thin like the VP restaurant give the whole pizza any different taste?  Sorry to be asking all the questions.  I do have a Mandolin I could use. 

Norma

Not really, my sauce still tastes the same as theirs.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 06:37:00 PM
Not really, my sauce still tastes the same as theirs.

s_b,

Thanks!

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: buceriasdon on December 07, 2011, 07:54:13 PM
Norma, If you have onions you feel are too strong in flavor you can tame the bite by soaking the sliced onion in cold water for ten minutes or so, then drain and use. I have certain recipes, not always pizza, where I squeeze a couple of limes into the water for added flavor. I was out of limes one time and used vinegar and that worked quite well also. It does add an extra "something". When I make sliders I drizzle a bit of balsamic vinegar and water over the onions before I place the hamburger patties on top of the onions. Really gives them a added depth of flavor.
Don
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 07, 2011, 08:10:02 PM
Norma, If you have onions you feel are too strong in flavor you can tame the bite by soaking the sliced onion in cold water for ten minutes or so, then drain and use. I have certain recipes, not always pizza, where I squeeze a couple of limes into the water for added flavor. I was out of limes one time and used vinegar and that worked quite well also. It does add an extra "something". When I make sliders I drizzle a bit of balsamic vinegar and water over the onions before I place the hamburger patties on top of the onions. Really gives them a added depth of flavor.
Don

Don,

Thanks for the tips on what to do if onions are too strong in flavor.  I didn’t know that soaking the sliced onions in cold water for 10 minutes or so would change the flavor.  I also will have to try your tip on squeezing limes into the water for added flavor in another thread.  I could imagine that limes or even vinegar added to the water could also make the onions taste really good.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 11, 2011, 02:31:10 PM
s_b,

I have one other question to ask you before I make another attempt on a VP pizza.  In your post at reply 46 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161538.html#msg161538 you posted to use high-gluten bread flour.  I am wondering if it matters if it is bread flour or higher protein high-gluten flour.  Maybe I missed if you posted about the bread flour somewhere in this thread. 

Thanks,

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on December 11, 2011, 03:01:50 PM
Norma,

Chau raised a similar question in reply 53 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161814.html#msg161814, and s_b clarified what he meant by high-gluten bread flour in the following Reply 54. He can correct me if I got it wrong.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 11, 2011, 03:11:11 PM
Norma,

Chau raised a similar question in reply 53 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161814.html#msg161814, and s_b clarified what he meant by high-gluten bread flour in the following Reply 54. He can correct me if I got it wrong.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for linking me to where Chau asked the similar question. 

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 12, 2011, 07:44:58 AM
I mixed another attempt for a VP pizza later yesterday afternoon.  I used a little more IDY in the formulation than for my last attempt and used KABF as the flour.

This is what the VP dough ball looks like this morning top and bottom.

The smallest white onion I could find at my supermarket weighed 347 grams.  I will make sure I don’t add as much chopped onion as I did in my last attempt.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 13, 2011, 10:35:56 PM
This was my second attempt for a Victory Pig pizza.  I think I followed all the directions right for this attempt.  The sauce was much better and my steel pan must be getting seasoned better because the pie did come out of the steel pan easily.  I don’t think my attempt really looks like a Victory Pig pizza though.  This attempt sure was good eating, but my bottom crust wasn’t crunchy and only a little crisp.  I don’t think my crumb looks right either.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 13, 2011, 10:37:23 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 13, 2011, 10:38:43 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 13, 2011, 10:40:10 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 13, 2011, 10:41:46 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 13, 2011, 10:43:07 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 13, 2011, 10:44:32 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 26, 2011, 07:22:44 PM
s_b,

Do you have any suggestions for me if I make another attempt at your clone Victory Pig pizza?  I don’t know if you might have seen something I did wrong in the pictures I posted.  My bottom crust wasn’t really crunchy.  Do you have any suggestions how to get my bottom crust crunchy?

Thanks!  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: patdakat345 on December 27, 2011, 06:55:08 AM
Norma; I had a similar problem, especially near the center. I may have left it in the pan too long before I cut it and put it on wire racks. I think next time I will will pull it out of the pan and put it back on the stone to get the crispiness at the bottom that I desire.
I gave one of the pizzas to my sister and she said it really crisped up when she put it in the oven on a wire rack at 400 degrees F.
Everybody Liked the taste steel_baker. Great job.

pat
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 27, 2011, 07:18:48 AM
Pat,

Thanks for your thoughts on why my bottom crust wasn’t crunchy or crispy enough.  :) I did remove the pie from the steel pan right after I removed it from the oven and put it right on a wire rack.  I will have to try another attempt some time and do a reheat on a slice to see if that makes the bottom more crispy.  I would have thought from all the peanut oil I used that the bottom crust would have been more crispy right from the oven. 

Great to hear that everybody liked your VP pizzas!  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 20, 2012, 08:23:36 AM
s_b,

Do you have any suggestions for me if I make another attempt at your clone Victory Pig pizza?  I don’t know if you might have seen something I did wrong in the pictures I posted.  My bottom crust wasn’t really crunchy.  Do you have any suggestions how to get my bottom crust crunchy?

Thanks!  :)

Norma

Norma,

I'm not familiar with your oven but what I do to make sure the bottom crust is crunchy is to bake it on the bottom rack or as close to the bottom of the oven as I can. This seems to really raise the temp on the bottom of the pan so it fries really hot and crisps up before the cheese burns. I also make sure not to overtop it (i.e. be sure not to use too much sauce or cheese).

Baking a tray tonight... first time in a few weeks.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 20, 2012, 09:27:18 AM
Norma,

I'm not familiar with your oven but what I do to make sure the bottom crust is crunchy is to bake it on the bottom rack or as close to the bottom of the oven as I can. This seems to really raise the temp on the bottom of the pan so it fries really hot and crisps up before the cheese burns. I also make sure not to overtop it (i.e. be sure not to use too much sauce or cheese).

Baking a tray tonight... first time in a few weeks.

s_b

s_b,

I was using a Baker Pride deck oven for the Victory Pig clone pizza.  Maybe my deck temperature isn’t right for this style of pizza, or maybe baking directly on the deck has something to do with my bottom crust not getting crunchy enough.  

Will be waiting to see your Victory Pig bake.  :)

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 20, 2012, 11:54:51 AM
s_b,

I was using a Baker Pride deck oven for the Victory Pig clone pizza.  Maybe my deck temperature isn’t right for this style of pizza, or maybe baking directly on the deck has something to do with my bottom crust not getting crunchy enough.  

Will be waiting to see your Victory Pig bake.  :)

Norma

I suspect that the stores making this pizza have their ovens specifically set for it. They probably have higher bottom temps so that they can "fry" the crust crispy before burning the cheese. I use a "gun" style instant read thermometer to measure surface temps when I cook or bake. I do fish & steaks on cast iron & having that right min temp for cooking fish is critical to get the sear you want and not have the fish stick.

Anyway, when I bake pizza I sometimes read the temp on the floor of the oven. Even at 350F  oven temp, the floor of the oven sometimes goes as high as 600 degrees! By observing this and baking just a few inches above the floor, I've been able to get a nice crispy brown on the bottom of all of my trays before burning the cheese on top. I get a lot of comments about the textures in the pizza. i.e. the soft creamy cheese, soft body of the crust, then the crispy bottom to offset it. That is one of the huge pleasures of eating this style of pizza.

So in baking a tray later today, I'll measure the amount of onions in the sauce, and the amount of sauce per tray. I already know that I use 8oz of cheese blend per tray. I'll post my results.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 20, 2012, 04:57:27 PM
I suspect that the stores making this pizza have their ovens specifically set for it. They probably have higher bottom temps so that they can "fry" the crust crispy before burning the cheese. I use a "gun" style instant read thermometer to measure surface temps when I cook or bake. I do fish & steaks on cast iron & having that right min temp for cooking fish is critical to get the sear you want and not have the fish stick.

Anyway, when I bake pizza I sometimes read the temp on the floor of the oven. Even at 350F  oven temp, the floor of the oven sometimes goes as high as 600 degrees! By observing this and baking just a few inches above the floor, I've been able to get a nice crispy brown on the bottom of all of my trays before burning the cheese on top. I get a lot of comments about the textures in the pizza. i.e. the soft creamy cheese, soft body of the crust, then the crispy bottom to offset it. That is one of the huge pleasures of eating this style of pizza.

So in baking a tray later today, I'll measure the amount of onions in the sauce, and the amount of sauce per tray. I already know that I use 8oz of cheese blend per tray. I'll post my results.

s_b

s_b,

Thanks for your tips.  :) I have an IR gun too, and might try to use it for my next attempt.  I guess I could put the steel pan under some screens, to maybe be able to bake better, if I try my deck oven again in making your Victory Pig clone.  My oven at market is kept at the same temperature, because that is the temperature I use for my regular pizzas and experiments.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 20, 2012, 06:39:16 PM
The tray tonight was outstanding. Substituted honey for white sugar and the dough is excellent.

Anyway, I measured everything today during prep & topping.

Sauce: (1) 28oz (793g) can of crushed tomatoes, 120g of finely chopped white onions for a total of 913g. I can top 3 trays per can so each tray is topped with 913/3=304g of sauce per tray (approx 10oz +/-).

Cheese: the 50/50white cheddar/mozzarella cheese blend is spread at 8oz (14g) per tray.

With these weights, it should be possible to turn out a consistent product every time. I followed these measurements today and the tray was excellent. Perfect balance of cheese, tomatoes/ onions, and a soft chewy dough on top, crispy & browned on the bottom.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: seascan on January 20, 2012, 08:41:47 PM
Hi All.  I have been reading all the posts here and am eager to make my first VP style pizza.

Has anyone bought a minimum order of the 15X12X2 Blue Steel pans from P.A. Products and would like to sell one?

Thanks!

Terry
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Bob1 on January 21, 2012, 03:45:16 AM
Seascan,
Checkout this thread.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.0.html
I just bought two 12 x 17 blue steel with plastic lids.  It was $48 with shipping.  I ordered them Tue and I got them today.
http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html
I was using a heavy gauge steel pan and it will be interesting to see how these work.

Bob
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 21, 2012, 07:40:20 AM
s_b,

Your Victory Pig pizza sure looks delicious!  Great job.  :chef:

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: seascan on January 21, 2012, 09:10:24 AM
Thanks Bob!  I will call them on Monday.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 21, 2012, 09:19:31 AM
Thanks Bob!  I will call them on Monday.



Just ordered lids online from them for my 12x17's. Will definitely make it easier for me since I can put the dough in the pans and put a lid on them to hold in the moisture instead of using  plastic wrap.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 21, 2012, 09:26:04 AM
Seascan,
Checkout this thread.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.0.html
I just bought two 12 x 17 blue steel with plastic lids.  It was $48 with shipping.  I ordered them Tue and I got them today.
http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html
I was using a heavy gauge steel pan and it will be interesting to see how these work.

Bob

Season them well and expect some sticking the first few times you use them. Once you get past that, you're golden. I never wash mine. I scrape any stuck bits out, then just wipe them down with a paper towel to eliminate any excess oil from puddling when I store them. Unlike a restaurant that uses them everyday, as a home pizza baker, if you leave oil in them it will go rancid and you'll need to wipe it out of there before using them. Learned this the hard way, nothing like baking your pizza in rancid oil to get your attention.

When I got them out of the box, I gave them the one & only washing with soap (Dawn) to remove the oils they were coated with for shipping, then rub them with Crisco and place them in a 250 degree oven upside down for 2-3 hrs. Then wipe them down & repeat. Mine come out with a beautiful oily coating on them and they're ready for some serious baking.

Mine are all well seasoned at this point and I get minimal to no sticking whenever I bake in them now.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: seascan on January 23, 2012, 07:40:14 PM
P.A. Products is temporarily out of stock on the 12X17.  Does anyone have an opinion on the Paderno (http://www.amazon.com/Paderno-World-Cuisine-11-825-Baking/dp/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20 (http://www.amazon.com/Paderno-World-Cuisine-11-825-Baking/dp/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20))?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 23, 2012, 08:38:08 PM
P.A. Products is temporarily out of stock on the 12X17.  Does anyone have an opinion on the Paderno (http://www.amazon.com/Paderno-World-Cuisine-11-825-Baking/dp/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20 (http://www.amazon.com/Paderno-World-Cuisine-11-825-Baking/dp/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20))?

Yes, it actually works quite well for this pizza in terms of the quality of the pizza. The only issue with them is the 1-1/8" depth. Certainly not the deepest. Depending upon how much oil you use, you can get some dripping out into the oven & some smoking. I only use 1-1/2oz of oil in the pan these days so if you season them well and just use that little bit you'd probably not have a problem with overflow while baking.

You can also try the link from above: http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html (http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html)

They appear to stock the 12x17's as well.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: seascan on January 23, 2012, 08:45:18 PM
Thanks Steel Baker!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Killmeyer000 on January 26, 2012, 01:55:29 PM
The tray tonight was outstanding. Substituted honey for white sugar and the dough is excellent.
s_b

Hi, I'd be curious to know how much honey you used...and what differences you noticed, if any, from using the honey?

Thanks,
John
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 26, 2012, 03:29:57 PM
Hi, I'd be curious to know how much honey you used...and what differences you noticed, if any, from using the honey?

Thanks,
John

I used 8g of honey, same amount as if it was sugar. I noticed a slight difference in the the texture that seemed a bit lighter.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pizza mama on January 29, 2012, 06:30:27 PM
I made VP pizza Friday night. Turned out wonderful. Made 3 trays the family ate all of it. I live in Northeast pa and its the closest recipe I found. Hey, Steel baker did you ever have Ferri,s pizza. There is one in Taylor and one in Moscow. Would love to know that recipe.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 29, 2012, 07:41:43 PM
I made VP pizza Friday night. Turned out wonderful. Made 3 trays the family ate all of it. I live in Northeast pa and its the closest recipe I found. Hey, Steel baker did you ever have Ferri,s pizza. There is one in Taylor and one in Moscow. Would love to know that recipe.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Ferri's.

Glad you enjoyed the pizza.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Killmeyer000 on February 01, 2012, 03:28:13 PM
I used 8g of honey, same amount as if it was sugar. I noticed a slight difference in the the texture that seemed a bit lighter.

s_b

Thanks.  Appreciate that info...the detailed recipe...and the video.  All were a huge help.

John
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on February 02, 2012, 12:26:18 AM
I made VP pizza Friday night. Turned out wonderful. Made 3 trays the family ate all of it. I live in Northeast pa and its the closest recipe I found. Hey, Steel baker did you ever have Ferri,s pizza. There is one in Taylor and one in Moscow. Would love to know that recipe.

   I am good friends with Bill Ferri, good pizza, I live near the area. I just had the pizza a few weeks ago.


    Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pizza mama on February 02, 2012, 10:05:18 AM
Chet, My family loves Ferri,s pizza any idea what they put in the sauce and what kind of cheese they use?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on February 11, 2012, 08:48:06 PM
  Bill

   Did I see a Bosch Universal plus on your counter, if so, any problems with smaller batches of dough.

   Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on March 09, 2012, 02:22:09 PM
Yes, it actually works quite well for this pizza in terms of the quality of the pizza. The only issue with them is the 1-1/8" depth. Certainly not the deepest. Depending upon how much oil you use, you can get some dripping out into the oven & some smoking. I only use 1-1/2oz of oil in the pan these days so if you season them well and just use that little bit you'd probably not have a problem with overflow while baking.

You can also try the link from above: http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html (http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html)

They appear to stock the 12x17's as well.

s_b



steel_baker:

Awesome thread! After reading over the thread a few times I was wondering if you would mind addressing some of my questions below? Thanks!!

1. In post #21 you state that one 28oz can of crushed tomatoes will top (4) 12x17 pans of pizza. In post #122 you say one can will do (3) pizzas. Is it safe to assume post #122 is what you’re currently recommending?

2. In post #13 Apuleius (ex VP employee) states that “the sauce was equal parts cans of crushed tomatoes and tomato paste, into which an additional can of water was added, along with equal parts sugar and salt, and black pepper in smaller quantity”. Have you tried the sauce this way; does his claim have merit?

3. I’m using your method of pan seasoning mentioned in post #128 (Crisco, upside down at 250 for 2-3hrs). After the first go-thru the pan came out pretty tacky (able to leave fingerprints). Is this normal after the first go-thru; how should I proceed?

4. In one of your posts you eluded to the possibility of opening up your own shop one day. I was wondering if there has been any movement on that front for you?

BTW, Northern Pizza Equipment is no longer selling blue steel pans. The following is a response I received when I inquired as to when they might get more 12x17’s in stock.

Response: I am sorry to say that the Blue Steel Pans will no longer be available. According to our vendor, the manufacture will no longer be making them, due to a shortage of the blue steel.

If anyone finds another outlet please let me know!

James
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 09, 2012, 02:49:12 PM
Hi PizzaBinge, see my responses below.

steel_baker:

Awesome thread! After reading over the thread a few times I was wondering if you would mind addressing some of my questions below? Thanks!!

1. In post #21 you state that one 28oz can of crushed tomatoes will top (4) 12x17 pans of pizza. In post #122 you say one can will do (3) pizzas. Is it safe to assume post #122 is what you’re currently recommending?

I normally get 3 trays from a 28 oz can. 4 must have been a typo on my part. You can try to stretch it because there is a bit left over after 3 trays but I don't know if you'd get enough sauce on each doing that.


Quote
2. In post #13 Apuleius (ex VP employee) states that “the sauce was equal parts cans of crushed tomatoes and tomato paste, into which an additional can of water was added, along with equal parts sugar and salt, and black pepper in smaller quantity”. Have you tried the sauce this way; does his claim have merit?

Never tried this. I always went by the fact that the sauce always taste like crushed tomatoes w/ onions it it to me so that's what I used. I use tomato paste to put together quick sauces for my cooking quite often so I'm not surprised that they might do that. Tomato paste & water is a lot cheaper than cans of crushed tomatoes and does give a real tomato flavor. They're making it on a much larger scale than me so if they can save money doing it that certainly flows to their bottom line.


Quote
3. I’m using your method of pan seasoning mentioned in post #128 (Crisco, upside down at 250 for 2-3hrs). After the first go-thru the pan came out pretty tacky (able to leave fingerprints). Is this normal after the first go-thru; how should I proceed?

Yes, this is normal. Until you make in it with oil at least once it will feel sticky. That's OK because what you're trying to do with the seasoning is fill the microscopic pits in the surface of the pan with fat to seal them up & prevent sticking. It will take a few times baking in it to really harden the coating. I also always leave a coating of oil in my pans, not so much that it puddles but enough so that they're always oily inside. I wipe them out before using it & putting fresh oil in so I don't get any rancid oil flavors in the pan when I bake.



Quote
4. In one of your posts you eluded to the possibility of opening up your own shop one day. I was wondering if there has been any movement on that front for you?

No interest at this point. I'm currently retired (not my choice) & plan to move to the western slope of Colorado (Durango) in about 16 months. Having started (and failed) a previous business, I learned that the quickest way to learn to hate something you love is to try to turn it into a business. Perhaps if I could do it on a small scale I would consider it but right now I just love baking it for family & friends.

Quote
BTW, Northern Pizza Equipment is no longer selling blue steel pans. The following is a response I received when I inquired as to when they might get more 12x17’s in stock.

Response: I am sorry to say that the Blue Steel Pans will no longer be available. According to our vendor, the manufacture will no longer be making them, due to a shortage of the blue steel.

If anyone finds another outlet please let me know!

That's too bad. They have always been hard to find. I bought mine at PA Products in Livonia, MI. Maybe they were the supplier to Northern Pizza Eqpt but I don't really know that for sure. If they still make them, you'll have to buy a dozen at a time but they were not expensive at about $8 each. Try them: http://www.paprod.com/pans.html  They still show them on their web site.

Anyway, thanks for participating in the thread. It took me a long tome to really figure out this pizza and a number of people who have had both actually seem to like mine better. The last few times I was at VP, the pizza was just so-so. They don't seem to let the crust rise as much anymore. They must be in a hurry to make it as fast they can I guess. It sure is nice too know that I can have it any time I want though. I'll be making two trays tonight, one regular red tray and  & one white w/ broccoli & garlic tray.

BTW, I've calculated the nutrition info on the pizza based upon my recipe & each tray has 2,763 calories total so based upon 16 cuts per tray (I've been cutting them smaller lately), each cut is 2763/16= 173 calories per cut. I'd have to go back thru my notes to find the rest of the nutritional info but I know I have it somewhere.

Good luck & have fun, this is wonderful pizza.

steel_baker

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on March 09, 2012, 03:12:32 PM
BTW, I've calculated the nutrition info on the pizza based upon my recipe & each tray has 2,763 calories total so based upon 16 cuts per tray (I've been cutting them smaller lately), each cut is 2763/16= 173 calories per cut. I'd have to go back thru my notes to find the rest of the nutritional info but I know I have it somewhere.

steel_baker,

Would you mind telling me if you are using an online tool somewhere to calculate the nutrition information and, if so, where it is? I recently started testing such a tool at the nutritiondata.self.com website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/, but you have to register to use it. Its database is lacking in some areas but it seems to do a reasonable job. It seems to me that a member of the PMQ Think Tank provided a link to another such tool but I was not able to find it.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on March 09, 2012, 03:25:00 PM
James,

On the matter of the blue steel pans, you may want to take a look at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137295/topicseen.html#msg137295. If you can't get the pans from PA Products for any reason, you might want to call Dover, the manufacturer, to see if you can get some names of potential suppliers.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 09, 2012, 03:42:48 PM
steel_baker,

Would you mind telling me if you are using an online tool somewhere to calculate the nutrition information and, if so, where it is? I recently started testing such a tool at the nutritiondata.self.com website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/, but you have to register to use it. Its database is lacking in some areas but it seems to do a reasonable job. It seems to me that a member of the PMQ Think Tank provided a link to another such tool but I was not able to find it.

Peter

No, nothing like that Peter. I simply took the nutrition info from the ingredient packaging & totaled it.

steel_baker
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on March 10, 2012, 07:11:47 PM
Hey s_b & Pete,

Thanks for the info. I'm currently seasoning the blue steel pan I have, and look forward to trying my hand with s_b's VP recipe. I'll post some pics when and if I get something worthy!

Happy eatin',
James
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 10, 2012, 08:01:19 PM
Hey s_b & Pete,

Thanks for the info. I'm currently seasoning the blue steel pan I have, and look forward to trying my hand with s_b's VP recipe. I'll post some pics when and if I get something worthy!

Happy eatin',
James

Enjoy. Once you really get practiced at making this pizza, it is just superb. What's really neat is that it's so unique that virtually nobody outside of NE PA has ever had it before and they really enjoy the different taste. I have started to experiment with the crust and I now prefer to use 10-12g of molasses instead of sugar when making the dough and it really makes a difference flavor & browning. I won't do it any other way now. Because I usually weigh everything right into the mixer bowl, I goofed on my second dough ball yesterday and ended up with 17 grams of molasses in it instead of 10-12g. Once you start pouring the molasses, you can't stop it immediately so you have to stop pouring before you hit your target weight to give it time to stop pouring out. I waited too long apparently. Since the water is the first ingredient in & molasses right into that there was nothing I could do so I just kept adding ingredients. You should have seen the big bubbly proofing I got from that with all of that molasses in it. It still turned out great but I had to really knock it down quite a bit before I could top it. I had to pop all of the big bubbles with a  toothpick.

I've also found that I now weigh & pre-package my cheese & sauce so that the flavor & balance is consistent from tray to tray. That way it's always "my" pizza and I don't have any issues with "good tray" vs a "bad tray". I do the weighing and prepackaging earlier in the day when I mix the cheese blend, make the sauce, and make the dough. Just a little tip if you decide to ever do a broccoli tray, I've found that the frozen boxes of chopped broccoli are the perfect size for topping one tray. It's already chopped & I thaw it, throw it in a pan with some minced garlic & a Tbsp or two of EV olive oil, then warm it up a bit & let it sit for an hour or so. That way the oil is infused with that garlic goodness and you have a nice blend of broccoli, garlic & oil to top the crust. The order of topping on the broccoli tray is to first salt the crust as always, then spread the broccoli/oil/garlic mixture on, then the cheese.

Over time, I'll continue to experiment with other toppings, but I must say that the original "red" trays still seem to be everyone's favorite.

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on March 11, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
Steel Baker and Victory Pig fans!  In today's Parade magazine ( a common Sunday paper insert ), Victory Pig is listed as one of America's best slice!  The article is not in depth, and tastes are subjective, but it was fun to see! 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 11, 2012, 12:50:22 PM
Steel Baker and Victory Pig fans!  In today's Parade magazine ( a common Sunday paper insert ), Victory Pig is listed as one of America's best slice!  The article is not in depth, and tastes are subjective, but it was fun to see!  

Cool! But then when you grow up with it, you always think that it's one of the best. :chef:

Ironic though that the recipe they posted for it is one that I dismissed years ago after finding it on the web. Muenster cheese? Really?

I've had it confirmed numerous times that VP uses 100% Wisconsin White Cheddar on their pizza, sliced paper thin on a meat slicer and layered on top of the tomatoes & onions.  ???
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on March 12, 2012, 01:02:44 AM
 Steel baker

   I made the dough recipe on wed,  took it out of the fridge on Friday at 2pm and baked it around 6pm, this time I made a change in the sauce and it was out of this world, if anyone wants to try the Sicilian sauce recipe here it is, I had most of the same guest and everyone said it was the best tasting sauce to date.

1 can Classico crushed 28oz
2 heaping TBLS of tomato paste
2 cloves of  grated garlic
2 TBLS of grated onion
1 or 2 TBLS olive oil
1/8 tsp oregano
1/4 tsp basil
1 tsp sugar ( I used 2 tsp was a spec sweet, but excellent)
 I put the olive oil in a sauce pan. added the onions & garlic simmered 3-4 minutes added the other ingredients mixed and set for 6 hrs on the counter.

   Chet

PS let me know if anyone tries it.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on March 25, 2012, 01:01:13 AM
Here's two pictures of my first tray after the pan seasoning process, which went well, and the pan is starting to turn more black after being used. I didn't follow the recipe to the tee as I was just interested in testing out the pan, but what I ended up with smelled & tasted very similiar to the real thing! I can't wait to use s_b's recipe! I'm excited!! ;D

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Killmeyer000 on March 29, 2012, 11:16:30 AM
I have started to experiment with the crust and I now prefer to use 10-12g of molasses instead of sugar when making the dough and it really makes a difference flavor & browning. I won't do it any other way now. Because I usually weigh everything right into the mixer bowl, I goofed on my second dough ball yesterday and ended up with 17 grams of molasses in it instead of 10-12g.

s_b

Yes, I prefer your dough recipe with 18 grams of Cane Sugar, or whatever type of sugar you like.  Seems to taste and brown better...and to me, the bottom is more crispy.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on May 06, 2012, 06:49:05 PM
  SteelBaker

   this is a loaf of bread with a dough ball left over of your recipe, we had it tonight with supper and it was wonderful, the crust was one of the best flavors.

    Chet

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on May 07, 2012, 11:11:30 AM
That's outstanding Chet. That loaf looks wonderful. I've often thought of putting together a batch of dough just for loaves or breadsticks. That loaf looks so good I'll probably try it sooner rather than later.

Thanks- s_b

 :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: matermark on August 10, 2012, 08:06:25 PM
s_b,

I forgot to ask you if the salt that is used in the dough is Kosher salt (since that is what you put on the dough when in the pan) and, if so, what brand?

Also, have you ever practiced your recipe using a round pan, like a deep-dish pan?

Peter

Sorry but round pizzas are a no-no in NEPA! Rectangular is the standard and the "trays" (not pies!) of about 12-14 "cuts" (not slices!) usually come in half of a shirt box covered in a very thin flat brown paper bag if pickup/to-go.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: matermark on August 10, 2012, 08:22:51 PM
s_b,

Do you have any suggestions for me if I make another attempt at your clone Victory Pig pizza?  I don’t know if you might have seen something I did wrong in the pictures I posted.  My bottom crust wasn’t really crunchy.  Do you have any suggestions how to get my bottom crust crunchy?

Thanks!  :)

Norma

Less cheese, and try 12x17 or 13x18!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Tedrco on August 27, 2012, 10:46:34 AM
No matter what I try my dough ends up soaking up all of the peanut oil in the pan and the dough is perfect around the edges, but moist and sticky in the middle of the pan with no browning or crispiness.

From what I've read, I should have a third of the oil remaining in the pan...not for me.  I put the oil in the pan, let the dough rise in the pan twice and when the pizza is cooked the oil is gone.  The dough sucks it all up.

I baked at 475 degrees and put the blue steel pan right on top of a line of fire bricks that I use in the bottom rack of my oven for baking sourdough bread and Neopolitan pizzas. 

I grew up in NE PA and love Victory Pig style pizza.  When my mom died we ordered over 100 cuts from Ceccoli's (same family, same recipe, as VP, but made in the Parsons section of WB) for the wake.  My family obsesses over pizza at family reunions, and I would love to be able to duplicate this recipe at gome. 

 I also live in Vietnam right now, so can't just drive to WB or Victory Pig to pick up 60 cuts for a party, so any suggestions you can give me are greatly appreciated. 

Thanks

Ted Coley
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on August 27, 2012, 11:04:10 AM
Have never had that issue before. Don't what the issue might be. It's a fairly high hydration dough at 67%. I haven't had any problems with a soggy center or all of the oil being soaked up by the dough. I made it this past friday and the dough sat in the pan for 6 hrs before I knocked it down the first time. Still, that tray came out of the oven beautifully. Crisp & brown on the bottom with plenty of oil left in the pan. I measure 1.5oz into the pan before putting the dough in and that's the only oil I use.

The only thing that may be happening (that I can think of) is that perhaps your firebricks on the bottom don't have an even temp distribution for some reason. Some spots are cooler or hotter than others. If you had a laser thermometer you could measure that and see if there were any differences. That may not be a problem with items that are baked directly on the bricks but maybe for some reason, baking on them in a pan is different.

That however still doesn't explain the disappearing peanut oil.  ???
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Jet_deck on August 27, 2012, 10:05:59 PM
.... I also live in Vietnam right now, so can't just drive to WB or Victory Pig to pick up 60 cuts for a party, so any suggestions you can give me are greatly appreciated. 


Ted are you sure about the protein content of the flour that you have sourced i(compared to what SB is using) in Vietnam?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Tedrco on August 28, 2012, 10:52:59 AM
I am not sure about the protein content, but the flour I use here is labeled "bread flour."  not many flour choices here - bread flour, all purpose and self rising.  I have used it for sour dough bread, baguettes and other breads with no problem.  I have access to King Arthur flour online that I can order.  Would the protein content make a difference?
Title: Made a focaccia using the VP style dough recipe as my starting point
Post by: steel_baker on September 10, 2012, 04:39:52 PM
Here is a post describing how I made an excellent focaccia yesterday using the VP style pizza dough as my starting point for anyone who may be interested.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20933.msg209605.html#msg209605

steel_baker

 :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: keithgrahame29 on October 15, 2012, 03:23:42 PM
Steel_Baker, I can't thank you enough for all the time and effort you put into reproducing this pizza.

I live in Philadelphia and grew-up on Pizza Loven pizza, one of the knock offs >:(. I cannot wait to make some pizza once I get my pans.

I do have one question after reviewing the video and all the previous posts.

After forming the dough ball, do you have to let it rest overnight in the refrigerator? In the video, you put it right to work, which seems way easier to me? Also, does either of the two options change the dough/pizza?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: keithgrahame29 on October 15, 2012, 03:45:34 PM
ALERT: P.A. Products no longer carries BLUE STEEL PANS.

Son of a nutcracker!

If anybody has one they want to sell, especially if its used, contact me at [email protected] I will be more than happy to buy one from you.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 15, 2012, 04:40:06 PM
Steel_Baker, I can't thank you enough for all the time and effort you put into reproducing this pizza.

I live in Philadelphia and grew-up on Pizza Loven pizza, one of the knock offs >:(. I cannot wait to make some pizza once I get my pans.

I do have one question after reviewing the video and all the previous posts.

After forming the dough ball, do you have to let it rest overnight in the refrigerator? In the video, you put it right to work, which seems way easier to me? Also, does either of the two options change the dough/pizza?

You're welcome.....

I like to make my dough in the morning and put it right into the pans. I cover them (I had lids for the 12x17 BS pans) and let them sit all day. Then I knock them down with my fingertips, top them, and bake them. You can make the dough ahead of time and put it in the fridge overnight. I've done that before but have found that it's just easier to put it into the pans, cover, & let them sit. You could always put the dough ball into the pan, cover it, & refrigerate overnight.

Either way is fine though and you should have no issues whichever way you choose.  :chef:

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 15, 2012, 04:42:07 PM
ALERT: P.A. Products no longer carries BLUE STEEL PANS.

Son of a nutcracker!

If anybody has one they want to sell, especially if its used, contact me at [email protected] I will be more than happy to buy one from you.

Damn..... I originally bought a dozen but only use three. I gave the rest away to friends & relatives who wanted to make it themselves. Now they're even more valuable I guess
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: keithgrahame29 on October 16, 2012, 12:28:37 AM
Thanks Blue-Steel, I have ordered some of the smaller Paderno BS pans. From what I read, I will just reduce the amount of peanut oil a bit.

When using the smaller Paderno 15.75 X 11.825 Inch Blue Steel Baking Sheet, do I have to reduce the amount of dough I use?

Also, you said that you like to make the dough in the morning, cover it and let itsit it all day. Do you let it sit at room temp? Do you give them the first stretching before letting them sit all day? Am I completely over thinking this whole thing? I have never made dough before, so thank you for bearing with me during all my newbie questions!

I will be using a kitchenaid mix with a dough attachment. I hope that works as well as your awesome mixer from the video! No pulse function, I figure I'll just keep flipping the swith back and forth!

What happened to your lids? I did read that you bought some!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 16, 2012, 01:25:19 AM
Thanks Blue-Steel, I have ordered some of the smaller Paderno BS pans. From what I read, I will just reduce the amount of peanut oil a bit.

When using the smaller Paderno 15.75 X 11.825 Inch Blue Steel Baking Sheet, do I have to reduce the amount of dough I use?

Yes

Quote
Also, you said that you like to make the dough in the morning, cover it and let itsit it all day. Do you let it sit at room temp?

Yes

Quote
Do you give them the first stretching before letting them sit all day?

Yes, you always stretch it when you first put it in the pan.

Quote
Am I completely over thinking this whole thing? I have never made dough before, so thank you for bearing with me during all my newbie questions!

I will be using a kitchenaid mix with a dough attachment. I hope that works as well as your awesome mixer from the video! No pulse function, I figure I'll just keep flipping the swith back and forth!

What happened to your lids? I did read that you bought some!

I still have them, wrong choice of words I guess. And everybody is a newbie at some point so no worries there.

s_b

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Jet_deck on October 16, 2012, 10:27:23 AM

Instructions and order of ingredients is shown in the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yJ7sdzWTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yJ7sdzWTg)

steel_baker

Thanks again for the thorough video.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on October 16, 2012, 11:07:29 PM
 HI S_B

   Can you tell me the weight of the dough for your recipe on page 2.

   Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on October 16, 2012, 11:31:49 PM
HI S_B

   Can you tell me the weight of the dough for your recipe on page 2.

   Chet

Chet,

steel_baker can correct me if I am wrong, and you can review the matter yourself, but I believe the answer to your question can be found in Reply 63 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161972.html#msg161972.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 17, 2012, 07:30:40 AM
Chet,

steel_baker can correct me if I am wrong, and you can review the matter yourself, but I believe the answer to your question can be found in Reply 63 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg161972.html#msg161972.

Peter

Yes, that is correct.

s_b   ;D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on October 17, 2012, 08:53:47 AM
 
   Big oops there, I somehow missed that recipe, was looking at the wrong one,

thanks

    Chet

  PS Example. If I wanted to make 4 pies in my Bosch U plus, can I be safe to say If I multiplied the recipe x 4 will work. if it would work, I am going to make adjustments for 26 oz dough balls
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 17, 2012, 12:29:11 PM

   Big oops there, I somehow missed that recipe, was looking at the wrong one,

thanks

    Chet

  PS Example. If I wanted to make 4 pies in my Bosch U plus, can I be safe to say If I multiplied the recipe x 4 will work. if it would work, I am going to make adjustments for 26 oz dough balls

That's how I would do it.

 :chef:

s_b
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: keithgrahame29 on October 23, 2012, 12:10:39 AM
Having lived in Wyoming Valley for my entire youth, I attempted the impossible tonight: victory pig syle pizza at home. AND, IT WAS AMAZING! Thank you blue steel. All your years of effort are making me a party favorite even though I did little to deserve it. However, I am not going to give you credit to my fans. SORRY, but I am selfish like that.  >:D

You rock blue steel. Please invite me to one of your foodie parties because I am so jealous that you awesome friends/neighbors like that. I'll bring the beer, you bring the bread. Also, if you do invite me, make sure that I do not steal your mixer.  :-D


Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on October 25, 2012, 12:28:55 AM
You're welcome.....

I like to make my dough in the morning and put it right into the pans. I cover them (I had lids for the 12x17 BS pans) and let them sit all day. Then I knock them down with my fingertips, top them, and bake them. You can make the dough ahead of time and put it in the fridge overnight. I've done that before but have found that it's just easier to put it into the pans, cover, & let them sit. You could always put the dough ball into the pan, cover it, & refrigerate overnight.

Either way is fine though and you should have no issues whichever way you choose.  :chef:

s_b

s_b,

I have successfully used your recipe; continued thanks. But, in my quest for learning (sometimes with my own experimentation, sometimes with others'), I was wondering what differences you encountered with the finished product between when you use to refrigerate your dough overnight, and now, just letting it sit several hours? Any change in the crumb?

BTW, for those interested, I did order a single 12x17 blue steel pan from Red Hill General Store
http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/housewares/kitchen/kitacc/Blue-Steel-Utility-Dripping-Pans.htm (http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/housewares/kitchen/kitacc/Blue-Steel-Utility-Dripping-Pans.htm)
It is advertised as a utility / dripping pan, which is why I ordered only one. When it arrived it had a thin film of oil on it that smelled more like something from a garage than a kitchen. After washing it once it seemed good to go, but I washed a second time for peace of mind. After removing the thin film of oil this pan appears to be just like my kitchen specific blue steel pan, only the correct size. Its in the oven right now getting its 3rd seasoning, and it's looking really good!

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: matermark on October 25, 2012, 06:21:22 AM
I think if you ordered a blue steel pan from redhillgeneralstore in the last 3-4 months, it's no longer blue steel but just cold rolled steel. The mfr changed to a plant in Mexico I think.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on October 25, 2012, 09:39:02 AM
I think if you ordered a blue steel pan from redhillgeneralstore in the last 3-4 months, it's no longer blue steel but just cold rolled steel. The mfr changed to a plant in Mexico I think.

 >:( Damn! They need to change their website!! Would theire be a qualitative difference with functionality once it is heavily seasoned? Thanks for the info.
 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: matermark on October 25, 2012, 10:23:52 AM
Others here have said that the blueing process just acts to prevent rust, so if you get them seasoned and all nice & black there's not much difference (if any at all.)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 25, 2012, 03:21:32 PM
The bluing process is only to prevent oxidation (rust). About the only difference you may have between a blue steel pan and cold rolled steel is the gauge of the steel itself. My blue steel pans are a very light gauge so they heat up & transfer the oven heat to the contents very quickly. I also have some steel roasting pans that are a much heavier gauge. They are terrible for pizza because the top burns before the crust really bakes. They bake much slower so you get no crust with them, just bread. Gauge of the pan is critical....

s_b

:chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 25, 2012, 03:23:02 PM
s_b,

I have successfully used your recipe; continued thanks. But, in my quest for learning (sometimes with my own experimentation, sometimes with others'), I was wondering what differences you encountered with the finished product between when you use to refrigerate your dough overnight, and now, just letting it sit several hours? Any change in the crumb?

None. I think that the overnight ferment does promote a slightly richer flavor in the crust though, but very little.

s_b

:chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on October 26, 2012, 12:58:17 AM
s_b, thank you for that info. I already finished seasoning the pan, so I'll run a few dough balls thru it and see what happens. Maybe if I do a pre-bake before topping... we'll see.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on October 31, 2012, 12:48:00 AM
I made my first 12x17 tray using the pan from Red Hill General Store. The pan performed perfectly and the pizza turned out great. The picture of the pan below is after 7 hours of seasoning and before seeing its first dough. It has a nice, thick layer that has started turning black after the first use. Time to order more pans and have some fun!

 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on December 02, 2012, 11:56:06 AM
Question..... I've been putting my pan to use with s_b's recipe; using 2oz of oil. The last pizza I did came out a little on the greasy side. Could this be due to the pan becoming very well seasoned and requiring less oil, or could it be because the dough did most of its rising outside of the oiled pan, as I had several doughs proofing at the same time?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Jet_deck on December 02, 2012, 12:27:47 PM
I don't know, but it looks pretty tasty.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Vinkelman on December 23, 2012, 03:04:45 AM
Thank you Mr. steel_baker for the video and everyone else who worked on perfecting this fantastic pizza recipe. I followed it to the best of my ability minus the cheese, but with addition of some Italian herbs. I can only get shredded mozzarella here in Taiwan. Still, the pizza came out incredibly tasty. My Taiwanese friends were fully impressed. I shared the video with them. Thank you!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 23, 2012, 05:39:05 PM
Thanks for the props everyone. And Pizzabinge, your VP Style pizza looks great in the pics. Looks pretty much spot on. ;D

Regarding your question on oil, the answer is yes. Once a pan is fully seasoned, you can cut back on the oil. Last tray I made a few weekends ago I started using only 1oz and it still came out great.

Keep baking!!!!

s_b

 :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on January 28, 2013, 12:27:31 AM
This is too good of a thread to let idle for too long, so allow me two things...

(1) I've tried doing white pizza; adding some herbs, garlic, etc., but no matter what I do it comes out tasting like breadsticks (really good breadsticks). Anyone have any ideas to direct the taste away from breadstick-y to white pizza, or is it just the nature of the beast with this style of pizza?

(2) Pizza L'Oven (similiar to Victiry Pig & Pizza Perfect, and in the same region) posted this picture on their Facebook page today. They call it pagach pizza: 2 cheeses, mashed potatos, garlic & chives. A little on the heart attack side of things, but sounds good to me.

Edit: I recently started a pizza review blog (www.KeystonePizzaCritic.com). If anyone would like to do some guest reviews of pizza shops in PA let me know  ;D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 28, 2013, 07:57:56 AM
Pizzabinge, add broccoli to your white pizza. That's how VP serves theirs. Broccoli, chopped tomatoes, or mushrooms all work very well on a nice garlicky, herby white pizza. When I do mine, I thaw a box of frozen chopped broccoli, warm it through in a pan of EVOO & minced or chopped garlic, then spread it on the dough after salting and before topping with cheese. It is absolutely wonderful.

s_b  :chef:

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on January 29, 2013, 12:07:27 AM
Pizzabinge, add broccoli to your white pizza. That's how VP serves theirs. Broccoli, chopped tomatoes, or mushrooms all work very well on a nice garlicky, herby white pizza. When I do mine, I thaw a box of frozen chopped broccoli, warm it through in a pan of EVOO & minced or chopped garlic, then spread it on the dough after salting and before topping with cheese. It is absolutely wonderful.

s_b  :chef:



s_b, that sounds good and looks even better, thanks. I'll let you know how it goes when I get around to doing another tray of white.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 08, 2013, 07:05:56 PM
Cold rainy day with snow showers in the afternoon. Gray, cloudy typical Pittsburgh winter day. So I made a tray of VP Style pizza. I substituted high temp Safflower Oil (smoke point 450F) for peanut oil. It turned out great with no discernible difference in flavor.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Ev on February 08, 2013, 10:49:02 PM
Looks great!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 08, 2013, 11:16:08 PM
This is too good of a thread to let idle for too long, so allow me two things...

(1) I've tried doing white pizza; adding some herbs, garlic, etc., but no matter what I do it comes out tasting like breadsticks (really good breadsticks). Anyone have any ideas to direct the taste away from breadstick-y to white pizza, or is it just the nature of the beast with this style of pizza?

(2) Pizza L'Oven (similiar to Victiry Pig & Pizza Perfect, and in the same region) posted this picture on their Facebook page today. They call it pagach pizza: 2 cheeses, mashed potatos, garlic & chives. A little on the heart attack side of things, but sounds good to me.

Edit: I recently started a pizza review blog (www.KeystonePizzaCritic.com). If anyone would like to do some guest reviews of pizza shops in PA let me know  ;D
I think I made it like about a few days after Thanksgiving...
I once had a Stoufers doctored up "pizza" bread that looked a lot like that.
Made it like about a week after Thanksgiving...
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: apizza on February 09, 2013, 10:24:58 AM
Well steel_baker I finally got around to trying this since on your video you never said "Don't try this at home". I have a beat up steel pan that is partially seasoned. It is the odd job pan. I thought I'd give it a try. Thanks to Peter's work in reply 63 it was no problem to adjusting your recipe for my 8 x 12 pan. Using what was in the house meant olive oil for the pan. Also my cheese mix was mozzarella/provolone.
Overall I was very pleased with the results. I will get some peanut oil and next time I'll have cheddar cheese on hand. Happily the pizza did not stick to this pan. I was worried about that. I think I could cut down on the oil. I want to try a white pizza as well with your dough. Thanks for your efforts.
Marty
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 09, 2013, 10:35:58 AM
Cool, I love seeing people change and adapt the recipe for their own needs. I do it as well. I've used this dough to make focaccia several times now. I just pump up the water to a 75% hydration and go through the dough mixing and rising in the pan. I also add flavorings to the dough mix like onion powder & garlic powder. I then poke in the dimples, top with coarse salt, fresh herbs, drizzle some olive oil on top and bake.

The focaccia turns out beautifully every time.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on February 10, 2013, 02:58:35 PM
Steel Baker, thanks for all the work you've put into your epic attempt to clone this pizza. It looks delicious!
I read somewhere in this thread that these blue steel pans are hard to find now. Would these pre-seasoned pans
from Detroit Style Pizza Co. do the job? The 8x10-inch pan would suit me just fine.
http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/
I hope it'll work since I impulsively just ordered one.
I will be trying your recipe as soon as the pan arrives.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 10, 2013, 03:11:52 PM
Steel Baker, thanks for all the work you've put into your epic attempt to clone this pizza. It looks delicious!
I read somewhere in this thread that these blue steel pans are hard to find now. Would these pre-seasoned pans
from Detroit Style Pizza Co. do the job? The 8x10-inch pan would suit me just fine.
http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/
I hope it'll work since I impulsively just ordered one.
I will be trying your recipe as soon as the pan arrives.

Yes, they will absolutely do the job.

Enjoy!

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on February 10, 2013, 03:17:59 PM
I had my first Sicilian-style pizza last night from a local pizza chain that just started offering Sicilian pizza. A 9x9-inch was just enough for the two of us. Almost couldn't eat the side order of Buffalo wings that I ordered in case the pizza wasn't enough to eat. I really love the taste and texture of the dough. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on February 18, 2013, 07:05:06 PM
Ok, here's my first try at Victory Pig style pizza. Thanks to steel_baker for all his work and dedication and to Pete-zza for making it unnecessary for me to do the calculations to bake it in my 8x10 inch pan. I think the seasoning may have been put on too thick on the pan, some of it is flaking off. But anyhoo, here are three pix.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 18, 2013, 07:06:10 PM
Looks great!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on February 18, 2013, 07:07:49 PM
I'll also have you know that I used the special "only for guests" paper plates, too.  :)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on February 18, 2013, 07:10:25 PM
I really have no idea why I wanted to make this pizza so badly. I think I liked the name, ''Victory Pig''. It was very tasty and I will be making it again...and again.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 18, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
Just like the real Victory Pig where they bring your pizza on an orange cafeteria tray lined with wax paper along with a stack of paper plates.

 ;D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on February 19, 2013, 12:09:52 AM
I was at The Pig last weekend and snapped these pictures. I had a view of the kitchen and wanted to stare to see what I could see, but was too scared, knowing how guarded the owners keep the inner workings.  :'(
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 19, 2013, 09:39:39 AM
I really have no idea why I wanted to make this pizza so badly. I think I liked the name, ''Victory Pig''. It was very tasty and I will be making it again...and again.

Victory Pig is one of the unique pizza tastes in a region where great pizza is everywhere. The nearby town of Old Forge, PA bills itself as the "pizza capital of the world" simply because they have more pizza restaurants per capita than anywhere else in the world. The high percentage of sicilian families over the years has resulted in many families serving their family's pizza at their restaurant and bar and there are many of them up & down the main street of the town. The family that started the Victory Pig restaurant has been so successful that  the restaurant is only open 3 evenings a week, wednesdays, fridays, & saturdays.

Victory Pig is so unique that those of us who grew up with it and moved elsewhere spend their lives trying to get it or figuring out how to make it themselves. I'm in the latter category and now that I know how, I can take that flavor with me wherever I go. I have given the recipe to friends & relatives all over the country and it seems to be universally loved. Everyone who has made it is amazed at how easy it really is and how simple the flavor profile of the pizza is.

This forum was a huge help to me in determining the recipe and I love to spread it around so for everyone who has made it, keep baking and above all.......enjoy!!!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Bernard Olson on March 01, 2013, 08:50:20 PM
steel_baker we nailed the recipe for Victory Pig. Thanks so much. Bernie. Ramona, Ca.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on March 02, 2013, 12:55:23 PM
I added a pressed garlic clove to the tomato sauce and served Victory Pig pizza as garlic bread with a ravioli dinner. I hope that steel_baker won't hire out a hit on me for that but it was delicious! It was much better than plain ol' garlic bread.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: RookieDave on March 19, 2013, 06:48:18 PM
I just wanted to say that I've enjoyed this thread though I haven't seen much success yet.  I didn't have the right pans so I ordered some from Northern and plan to try them soon.  My wife is from that part of PA so giving her a taste of home has been the real motivation.

The other reason I'm posting is give this thread credit for an unexpected bonus.  The wife's family in PA has been aware of my efforts and one them decided to surprise me by ordering two trays of Victory Pig pizza for my birthday and it will be here tommorrow.  Can't wait and I figure it has to help to at least try the real thing. 





 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on April 27, 2013, 06:42:42 PM
A shockingly crunchy, greasy crust & a bright red tomato & onion sauce that slaps you in the face - Pig heaven
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on June 10, 2013, 09:53:32 AM
I just couldn't resist shooting this video last night. It's so pretty when that cheese is bubbling & the crust is frying. It's hard to see in the video but the crust has pulled away from the sides of the pan as it baked. These pans are now well seasoned and the pizza just slides right onto a tray for cutting & serving.

http://youtu.be/Jh6eF4z-Evg (http://youtu.be/Jh6eF4z-Evg)

 :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on June 10, 2013, 04:52:53 PM
I just couldn't resist shooting this video last night. It's so pretty when that cheese is bubbling & the crust is frying. It's hard to see in the video but the crust has pulled away from the sides of the pan as it baked. These pans are now well seasoned and the pizza just slides right onto a tray for cutting & serving.

http://youtu.be/Jh6eF4z-Evg (http://youtu.be/Jh6eF4z-Evg)

 :chef:

I can almost taste it, s_b! I've been baking some trays for people who've never had this style of pizza, and needless to say they love it (even those who don't care for onions)! I have to get some more pans; I'm down to one after I messed up 2 of them and haven't been able to bring them back to life.

On another note... I've noticed recently that while applying the sauce my dough will lose some gas and in turn produce a tray that is a little thinner than I'd prefer. Have you ever encountered this issue? Do you know if this normal for high hydration doughs?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on June 10, 2013, 05:00:49 PM
On another note... I've noticed recently that while applying the sauce my dough will lose some gas and in turn produce a tray that is a little thinner than I'd prefer. Have you ever encountered this issue? Do you know if this normal for high hydration doughs?

I haven't encountered this before. I continue to tinker with the dough recipe and now I actually knock the crust down with my fingertips just before topping. Even after knocking them down though, I still get enough oven spring to raise them back up.


Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on June 10, 2013, 05:10:16 PM
I haven't encountered this before. I continue to tinker with the dough recipe and now I actually knock the crust down with my fingertips just before topping. Even after knocking them down though, I still get enough oven spring to raise them back up.

It doesn't seem to affect anything other than aesthetics, but it bugs me nonetheless.

Nice looking pie there!! I love seeing the perimeter separate from the pan while in the oven. I recently made a white tray with currywurst; it didn't look so pretty but it tasted great. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on July 21, 2013, 01:14:21 PM
Well, it's now time to implement the  biggest changes yet to my VP style pizza recipe. I've moved from Pittsburgh, PA to Durango, CO, which sits at an altitude of 6,512' above sea level. I've made trays of pizza here several times over the past few years but in every case, portions of the crust simply break apart when trying to get the pizza out of the pan. What I have discovered is this:

1. The high altitude causes the yeast activity in the raw dough to "race ahead" of the ability of the dough to form an elastic structure to support it. The result is a crust with little to no structure that falls apart.

2. The solution to this problem is to regulate the rise of the raw dough by cutting back on yeast & increasing salt, the result being a slowing down of the rise to give the dough a chance to catch up & build structure to support the rise.

The other issue I have found is that the different brands of canned crushed tomatoes here have a different flavor. I may need to order my canned crushed tomatoes online by the case in order to get the flavors I'm used to having in the end product. It's also harder to obtain the white cheddar that I use for my cheese blend. There doesn't seem to be any pre-shredded white cheddar available but I have seen 7oz pkgs of sliced sharp white cheddar. I may try these for an all white cheddar topped pie. Since VP actually uses Wisconsin white cheddar sliced on a meat slicer as their only cheese topping, this is no big deal but I am interested in the results of laying slices on top as opposed to spreading shredded cheese on top. Otherwise, I'll be buying 2 lb blocks of Cabot sharp white cheddar at Sam's Club, 45 miles from here and then shredding it in a food processor as I've done in the past.

Now that the heat has broken for the season here in Durango, I'll be starting back up on my pizza quest once again. GUess I need to "re-perfect" my pizza recipe & techniques for high altitude. Of course, this pizza is always worth the effort.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on July 21, 2013, 01:28:50 PM
steel_baker
You're right, VP Pizza is always worth the effort. It was one of the first pizzas I made after finding this forum and we still enjoy it mightily. And regularly. I nod toward PA & CO each time I take one out of the oven.  ;D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on July 21, 2013, 01:42:34 PM
Thx Redox,

I'm honored! I'm currently in a rental house for the next 15-18 months while we finalize construction plans and build a house, but so far, I;ve found the oven here to be pretty much on target with the temps. The one tray I have baked in it browned nicely and the cheese melt was just what I normally look for in terms of top cooking. It's just that damn structure issue but I'll have that resolved soon.

In the meantime.... keep baking!

 :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on August 04, 2013, 10:34:41 PM
Season them well and expect some sticking the first few times you use them. Once you get past that, you're golden. I never wash mine. I scrape any stuck bits out, then just wipe them down with a paper towel to eliminate any excess oil from puddling when I store them. Unlike a restaurant that uses them everyday, as a home pizza baker, if you leave oil in them it will go rancid and you'll need to wipe it out of there before using them. Learned this the hard way, nothing like baking your pizza in rancid oil to get your attention.

When I got them out of the box, I gave them the one & only washing with soap (Dawn) to remove the oils they were coated with for shipping, then rub them with Crisco and place them in a 250 degree oven upside down for 2-3 hrs. Then wipe them down & repeat. Mine come out with a beautiful oily coating on them and they're ready for some serious baking.

Mine are all well seasoned at this point and I get minimal to no sticking whenever I bake in them now.

s_b

Hey S_B,

I hope your transition is going smoothly. I am wondering how your pans are doing; are you still using your original blue steel pan that you seasoned with the method you posted above? If so, have you had any problems with the seasoning flaking off? The seasoning on my original pan is starting to flake off to the point I am starting to notice the dough sticking a little bit. I use my pan frequently, but thinking about restaurant use, either my seasoning is coming undone way too early or pizzerias with these pans must reseason them very frequently. To be fair, I can't remember if I seasoned the pan with Crisco as you advised in your post, or peanut oil.

pb
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on August 04, 2013, 10:50:21 PM
Yes, still using my original fully seasoned pans. No issues. Pizza slides right out. I just wipe them with a paper towel and use fresh peanut oil every time I bake. My dough adjustments are still a work in progress although last night's batch of dough was very promising. I had increased the salt by a third, decreased the yeast by a little more than a third, and increased the water by about 3%. I had a sticky dough that took over 4 hrs to fill the pan with the rise, a very good sign. My normal low altitude recipe would fill it in 45 minutes when baking here at 6500', resulting in a crust with no structure. It would literally crumble trying to remove it from the pan.

The result was a bit iffy after the bake however. I had not realized that the top of the stove in my rental condo got REALLY HOT when the oven is on. I had left the covered pan of dough sitting on top of the oven while it was preheating and ended up with a sticky mess of very, very warm dough. I topped & baked it, and it came out of the pan without breaking up (my objective achieved), had a nice crumb, but was not browned enough on the bottom. I need to re-learn to bake in THIS oven now obviously. Also, the canned tomatoes here in western CO have a completely different flavor compared to what I used back east. I think the answer to that is to order myself a case of canned crushed San Marzano tomatoes online.

I'll get there. I just need to keep baking my way through it but I'll get the flavor & consistency back to what I was getting in PA at some point.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on August 05, 2013, 01:28:08 AM
I'll get there. I just need to keep baking my way through it but I'll get the flavor & consistency back to what I was getting in PA at some point.

Well, you aced the recipe once, I have no doubt you'll find the tweaks you need before introducing Pig Pizza to CO! I like San Marzano tomatoes on pizza, but having tried them on this style of pizza, I wasn't a fan. I probably shouldn't admit this in a public forum, but the sauce I like best on this pizza is Furmano's crushed tomatoes. It seems exactly like what the 3 amigos back in NEPA use, and keeping with the available & cheap train of thought, maybe it is. Thanks for the info, now off to buy some Crisco  :D 

Oh... if you want any ingredients that are PA specific let me know what; I'd be happy to send some to you.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on August 05, 2013, 09:37:45 AM
Thanks PizzaBinge,

I think you may be right about the Furmanos crushed tomatoes. I think I read somewhere that VP uses Furmanos tomato products. What is funny is that in PA, it didn't matter what crushed tomatoes I used, they all seemed to taste the same on the pizza. Since coming out here, it seems that all of the canned crushed tomatoes have a different flavor. I've used San Marzano crushed tomatoes before and they had the same flavor as Hunts or any other brand back east. I'm going to try all of the local stores in the area to see if I can find Hunts before ordering anything on line though. I can get virtually any crushed tomatoes I want online if I'm willing to pay the shipping. That's the only rub at this point.

Thanks for your offer to ship me anything I need. I should be able to find what I need though. I just want to get my pizza back on track. I knew when I moved here that I would need to adjust the dough recipe for altitude, I never imagined though that I would be searching for canned crushed tomatoes to match the flavors I had used back east.

Life is just too short for bad pizza after all!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on August 05, 2013, 09:56:11 AM
Update: I found Contadina Crushed tomatoes in 28 oz cans at Amazon.com for $3.96 ea. Shipping for 3 cans is $4.99 so it's not too bad. Contadina is what I was using back east. I was buying them by the case at Costco. I ordered 3 cans which is enough for 9 trays so I should be able to get the flavor back to where I need it to be.

Funny how you take the little things for granted like being able to just go to the grocery store and buy a can of crushed tomatoes with the flavor you need. Never, ever thought that different canned tomatoes would be an issue.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on August 06, 2013, 08:37:35 AM
Update: I found Contadina Crushed tomatoes in 28 oz cans at Amazon.com for $3.96 ea. Shipping for 3 cans is $4.99 so it's not too bad. Contadina is what I was using back east. I was buying them by the case at Costco. I ordered 3 cans which is enough for 9 trays so I should be able to get the flavor back to where I need it to be.

Funny how you take the little things for granted like being able to just go to the grocery store and buy a can of crushed tomatoes with the flavor you need. Never, ever thought that different canned tomatoes would be an issue.
I think 5 and a quarter a can for Contadina is crazy. Can't you get your local grocer to carry some....it's a very common brand Steel.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on August 06, 2013, 09:03:27 AM
I think 5 and a quarter a can for Contadina is crazy. Can't you get your local grocer to carry some....it's a very common brand Steel.

Contadina is a common brand in the east and in larger city regions in the west. Not so much in the rural areas of the mountain west & southwest. I live on the western slope of Colorado in a town of 18,000 people. The largest city around (Albuquerque) is 200 miles away. The brands carried locally are primarily small label organics and a few larger brands such as Cento (I've tried Cento- not the flavor I need). The culture here demands loyalty to local farmers & brands, very much farm to table (which I support). Many of the good brands (like Furmano's) are only distributed on the east coast. It is difficult if not impossible to get local grocers to carry a product that might sell a handful of cans a year (to me), when they currently sell volumes of the current brands. I use about (12) 28 oz cans a year.

In addition, it is actually far cheaper for me to buy them on line & pay the shipping than it is to drive the 90 mile round trip down to the next largest town in the area to try to buy Contadina (if they even carry the brand). Before moving here, I lived in Pittsburgh where I could get virtually any brand I wanted locally. The cost of gas these days has shifted much of the economics of living in a small town and must be considered in virtually every purchase decision made these days. For me to pay what amounts to an additional $24/ yr to bake approximately 36 trays of pizza is not a big issue. That's just the price I pay to live where I do.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on August 06, 2013, 10:40:53 AM
I hear ya Steel. Ever try or see around there the Muir Glenn product? I think Furmano's was probably one of the worst I've had, well, besides the tin can tasting "regular" Cento's.  :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on August 06, 2013, 11:19:25 AM
Actually Muir Glen is a problem. I used them for the last tray I made. Too acidic, needed some doctoring. Also, too chunky to spread on the dough. It needs to be thinned to spread on a soft, sticky yeast dough without damaging it.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on August 23, 2013, 05:06:25 PM
 HI Steel Baker

   Haven;t been on the forums in awile, are you still using Molasses as the sweetener, and are you still at 1 % oil

   Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on August 23, 2013, 07:29:30 PM
Hi Chet,

Well, since I live at high altitude now (6,500'), I'm completely revamping my dough recipe. I've had to increase water & salt, cut back yeast by about 40%, and have cut out sugar of any kind altogether. The sugar makes the dough too soft here and it won't crisp up. Prior to moving here, I had cut back on molasses to firm up the crust some more. Where you live, I would still consider using a small amount of molasses for browning & flavor.

 ;D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on September 01, 2013, 12:15:21 PM
Following up with this high altitude adjustment effort, I made a tray of pizza last night and have made real progress. I used the Contadina crushed tomatoes I bought from Amazon for the sauce & the sauce is finally back where it needs to be. I have adjusted my dough recipe significantly. I have increased the water by 5%, decreased yeast by 50%, and increased salt by 50%. In doing this, I've been able to slow down the rise so that the dough takes 5-6 hours to fill the pan with the rise instead of the 45 minutes it took when I was using my original low altitude recipe. The results were a tray that was firmly intact and slid out the pan with ease, as it should instead of falling apart like it was when I first moved here.

Now my only remaining issue is the oven in our rental condo. I need to get more bottom browning than I'm currently getting. There needs to be more crisp to it. The crumb has come together but I'm getting a slight gummy layer on top under the toppings. That was not an issue with my previous oven. The cheese is starting to burn before I can get the necessary browning on the bottom and finish baking the crust to eliminate the gummy layer. My guests never noticed and loved the pizza, and the flavor was back where it should be, but I noticed that gummy layer and won't be satisfied until I've eliminated it.

I suppose I may never get the results I want with this rental condo oven but then in 15 months, our house will have been built, we'll be out of the rental, and I'll be back to using quality ovens. Maybe I should just wait until then.... but damn it! I want my VP pizza back!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: redox on September 01, 2013, 12:31:55 PM
I suppose I may never get the results I want with this rental condo oven but then in 15 months, our house will have been built, we'll be out of the rental, and I'll be back to using quality ovens. Maybe I should just wait until then.... but damn it! I want my VP pizza back!
I hope you don't have to wait 15 months to enjoy your VP pizza the way you remember it. That would be cruel & unusual punishment, indeed.
I'm going to try your delicious original "lowland" version in my Blackstone oven sometime within the next few days. Everyone always enjoys it.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on September 01, 2013, 01:26:45 PM

I suppose I may never get the results I want with this rental condo oven but then in 15 months, our house will have been built, we'll be out of the rental, and I'll be back to using quality ovens. Maybe I should just wait until then.... but damn it! I want my VP pizza back!

S_B,

Have you tried a par-bake before topping? Not ideal, but it might put you in a happy place until your house is ready.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on September 01, 2013, 02:34:54 PM
steel_baker,

Is you oven electric or gas?

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on September 01, 2013, 03:02:02 PM
S_B,

Have you tried a par-bake before topping? Not ideal, but it might put you in a happy place until your house is ready.

Thought about doing a parbake. I hate to do that though only because it's an aberration of the process and I'd prefer to find a solution without having to do that.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on September 01, 2013, 03:04:22 PM
steel_baker,

Is you oven electric or gas?

Peter

Hi Peter,

It's gas. I was baking in a Wolf Dual Fuel range with electric oven back east at lower altitudes. The thought even crossed my mind to look for a used tabletop electric oven just to bake pizza here. Small isolated town here though so I'm not likely to find one.

S_B
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on September 01, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
I hope you don't have to wait 15 months to enjoy your VP pizza the way you remember it. That would be cruel & unusual punishment, indeed.
I'm going to try your delicious original "lowland" version in my Blackstone oven sometime within the next few days. Everyone always enjoys it.

 :drool:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: jsperk on September 01, 2013, 04:36:49 PM
Trying your recipe this evening. Maybe some day I will make it east to try a Victory Pig Pizza.

Where are around in western Pa? J&S is my favorite thick style around here. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on September 01, 2013, 05:36:51 PM
Trying your recipe this evening. Maybe some day I will make it east to try a Victory Pig Pizza.

Where are around in western Pa? J&S is my favorite thick style around here.

Enjoy! I was in the north hills suburbs of Pittsburgh for 22 years, most recently in Cranberry Township. I recently moved to Durango, CO with retirement. I grew up & spent the first 37 years of life in northeastern PA (Kingston).

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on September 01, 2013, 08:55:50 PM
A cut of pizza that I had leftover from last evening. I  like to reheat it in a frying pan on the stovetop using very low heat. It heats it through from the bottom & melts the cheese. It also crisps it up if it is the least bit soft.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pwc123 on March 12, 2014, 09:39:42 PM
Just wanted to give a huge thank you to steel_baker, this recipe and the video were massively helpful.  My first attempt at a Sicilian pie was mediocre at best and this one came out fantastic.  No wonder this is one of your favorites after all your travels - truly delicious.  Thanks again, cheers!

Note for any of the beginners out there, I hand-kneaded the dough and hand chopped the onions.  No tools required!

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 12, 2014, 09:46:02 PM
Looks great. Glad it worked out for you. It's actually pretty easy to make once you nail the technique. This pizza has such great onion & tomato flavor and with the fried crust, it's just mouth watering.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pwc123 on March 12, 2014, 10:00:27 PM
Yep, you did all the hard work. I'm thankful that you decided to share it with the rest of us!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on March 13, 2014, 11:45:07 PM
A cut of pizza that I had leftover from last evening. I  like to reheat it in a frying pan on the stovetop using very low heat. It heats it through from the bottom & melts the cheese. It also crisps it up if it is the least bit soft.

Hey s_b, I haven't been on here in a little while, I was wondering who the victor was, you or the altitude. By the looks of that cut I'd definitely say that it is you! Were you able to get it back to how it was 100%?

James
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on March 13, 2014, 11:48:13 PM
Just wanted to give a huge thank you to steel_baker, this recipe and the video were massively helpful.  My first attempt at a Sicilian pie was mediocre at best and this one came out fantastic.  No wonder this is one of your favorites after all your travels - truly delicious.  Thanks again, cheers!

Note for any of the beginners out there, I hand-kneaded the dough and hand chopped the onions.  No tools required!

Hey pwc123, that's a good looking product you have there! What kind of pan are you using?

James
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pwc123 on March 14, 2014, 07:20:26 AM
Hey pwc123, that's a good looking product you have there! What kind of pan are you using?

James

I have this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20)

As steel_baker mentioned, this pan will do the trick but I'd recommend getting a deeper one if you're going to be making this style regularly. Then you don't have to worry about oil overflow or anything at all.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on March 14, 2014, 09:45:59 AM
I generally prefer this style of pizza with onions and w/o toppings, but I've been experimenting lately (and feeding my coworkers), and here are a few pics:

Brussel sprout and bacon, ham and cheese (cheddar and American), BBQ chicken, chicken-bacon-ranch, pepperoni, sloppy joe, and plain cheese
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 14, 2014, 11:04:57 AM
Hey s_b, I haven't been on here in a little while, I was wondering who the victor was, you or the altitude. By the looks of that cut I'd definitely say that it is you! Were you able to get it back to how it was 100%?

James

Actually, at this point... I won. I've found now that the combination of high altitude & junky rental condo oven, I have to bake the tray with sauce & no cheese for 12-13 minutes at the bottom rack position, then pull it, top with cheese & finish for another 3-5 minutes. This gives me the nice browned crispy crust I'm looking for without burning the cheese. I'm hoping that once we get our house built and have a quality oven again, I won't need to pre-bake at all. I have found so far that the high altitude here makes it tough to really brown & crisp up baked goods so I may still end up having to pre-bake.... but I hope not.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on March 14, 2014, 11:12:52 AM
I generally prefer this style of pizza with onions and w/o toppings, but I've been experimenting lately (and feeding my coworkers), and here are a few pics:

Brussel sprout and bacon, ham and cheese (cheddar and American), BBQ chicken, chicken-bacon-ranch, pepperoni, sloppy joe, and plain cheese

Those trays all look great. Once you know how to make this crust, you can do anything with it. I've made focaccia bread with it before. I just increased the hydration to about 75%, used more oil in the dough, then dimple the top and top it with sea salt, rosemary, & olive oil. Had it with some italian entrees & received rave reviews.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: stmichael911 on May 16, 2014, 02:27:25 PM
Pictures are of my third try with a Victory Pig Style Pizza...Going to try an increase in thickness (33 %) thinking NEPA (North East Pa) Scranton squares are about that much more higher.  Worked the calculations  today and hope I don't overflow my pan.

Interested in a cold fermentation process and opinions of benefit for Victory Pig Style Crust..

I should have noted that I used two different blends of cheeses on this pizza as I'm trying to nail down some unique flavors I enjoy from Scranton Pizza Places
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: stmichael911 on July 02, 2014, 09:05:54 AM
Pictures are of my third try with a Victory Pig Style Pizza...Going to try an increase in thickness (33 %) thinking NEPA (North East Pa) Scranton squares are about that much more higher.  Worked the calculations  today and hope I don't overflow my pan.

Interested in a cold fermentation process and opinions of benefit for Victory Pig Style Crust..

I should have noted that I used two different blends of cheeses on this pizza as I'm trying to nail down some unique flavors I enjoy from Scranton Pizza Places

I settled for a 10% increase from the original Thickness Factor and am pleased with it! :)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: bigMoose on July 11, 2014, 10:09:35 AM
I made this last night.  Was a bit concerned how slack the dough was, and how much oil was in the pan...  Had a bit of difficulty stretching it out, as it had a mind of its own.  At the proper time, finally got the pan full of dough.  Was not sure it would bounce in the oven.

Then the magic happened in the oven.  All ended just like the pictures above.  Good oven spring, incredible balance of simple ingredients.  Topped with sharp cheddar and motz.  Put more cheddar around edges to brown against the pan.  Used 7 11 and fine diced onion and just a bit of Italian Oregano.

Wife loved it and said it has to be part of my 3 pizza sampler that we prepare for new guests.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pizza4442 on September 06, 2014, 10:13:59 AM
The cheese is white cheddar. They slice it paper thin on a meat slicer & lay it on top of the crushed tomatoes. I use a 50/50 blend of mozz & vermont white cheddar (usually Cabot because it's easily available). I buy the white cheddar at Costco in a 2 lb block and shred it with the shredding disc on the food processor. Shreds the 2lb block in about 5 minutes. Because I do everything on a scale I just mix equal weights of mozz & white cheddar in a stainless steel bowl, then weigh it out into Gallon sized ziploc bags for storage.

Here are a few pics from my pizza baking sessions over the past 2 months:

This looks sooo good,  I can't wait to try this recipe. So many great reviews and pictures. Nice job! If you really want to replicate VP, the cheese is definitely, without any shadow of doubt Muenster cheese. I can tell you that with 100% certainty. If you've ever worked there, you may have had to run  to supermarket across the street to buy it on a busy night and the cheese has run out! Also, if you look closely at a slice, you can sometimes see the orange edge on the slices of cheese indicative of Muenster. I do know Pizza Perfect uses white cheddar in their version which is also delicious. Not sure about Pizza L'oven. Being that the owners of both were former employees of VP, I think the first thing they did to the recipe was change the cheese. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 18, 2014, 10:56:10 AM
This looks sooo good,  I can't wait to try this recipe. So many great reviews and pictures. Nice job! If you really want to replicate VP, the cheese is definitely, without any shadow of doubt Muenster cheese. I can tell you that with 100% certainty. If you've ever worked there, you may have had to run  to supermarket across the street to buy it on a busy night and the cheese has run out! Also, if you look closely at a slice, you can sometimes see the orange edge on the slices of cheese indicative of Muenster. I do know Pizza Perfect uses white cheddar in their version which is also delicious. Not sure about Pizza L'oven. Being that the owners of both were former employees of VP, I think the first thing they did to the recipe was change the cheese.

Hi Pizza4442,

I appreciate your input but I know for a fact that they use Wisconsin White Cheddar on their pizza. I know someone who has worked there for over 30 years and have also had conversations with the purveyor (http://www.genoafoods.com/ (http://www.genoafoods.com/)) from whom they buy their cheese. This has been confirmed to me many times over the years.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 18, 2014, 11:09:23 AM
Well it took 16 months but I have finally been able to make high quality VP style pizza again. In that 16 months, I had to use 3 different ovens and also had to tweak the dough recipe to accommodate an altitude of almost 7,000' above sea level. I found that at high altitude, the yeast works too fast. Too fast of a rise does not allow the dough time to develop the necessary structure to support the crust & the result is that when baked, the crust would fall apart taking it out of the pan..... nothing but a pile of crumbs, sauce, & cheese. The solution was to 1) increase water slightly, 2) decrease the amount of yeast slightly, & 3) increase salt slightly. This results in a slower rise giving the dough time to build the necessary structure.

I also had to learn another (third in 16 months) different oven. This time, a Kenmore Elite single wall oven. What I discovered is that based upon the size of the oven cavity, I had to rotate the pan halfway through the bake, otherwise, only half of the pan would bake properly. Because browning is difficult at this altitude, I also found that I need to pre-bake with sauce only, then top it with cheese for the last 5 minutes or so. This is because the bake time has increased from 10-12 mins to 16-18 mins. Topping with cheese up front only results in burning the cheese due to the longer baking time. Here are some pics of last nights bake:

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 18, 2014, 12:28:08 PM
That crust looks killah Steel.....I am glad you hung in there and met the challenges....excellent pizza making dude!  :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 18, 2014, 02:38:06 PM
That crust looks killah Steel.....I am glad you hung in there and met the challenges....excellent pizza making dude!  :chef:

Thanks!  :drool:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on October 18, 2014, 09:47:15 PM
I tried this Victory Pig style for the first time tonight, and liked the new experience.
Its like a focaccia, but crispier, at least how mine turned out.
The pics may slightly hide the fact that I made it in a round aluminized steel pan (sorry, no rectangular ones in stock).  ::)

The crust was very crispy and light, the cheese slightly caramelized on the edges, interesting onion/tomato flavor. I think it might be good with some sausage too (but what isn't?).

Where do I pick up a Nash Blue Steel Pan?
Although I could just keep doing it circular, with a party cut...I like this particular pan.

thanks s_b!


Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on October 18, 2014, 09:58:59 PM
steel_baker and woodmakesitgood,

Both of your Victory Pig pies sure look good.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on October 18, 2014, 10:06:32 PM
steel_baker and woodmakesitgood,

Both of your Victory Pig pies sure look good.

Norma


Thanks Norma, the pics on this thread were making me hungry this morning!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 18, 2014, 10:23:23 PM
I tried this Victory Pig style for the first time tonight, and liked the new experience.
Its like a focaccia, but crispier, at least how mine turned out.
The pics may slightly hide the fact that I made it in a round aluminized steel pan (sorry, no rectangular ones in stock).  ::)

The crust was very crispy and light, the cheese slightly caramelized on the edges, interesting onion/tomato flavor. I think it might be good with some sausage too (but what isn't?).

Where do I pick up a Nash Blue Steel Pan?
Although I could just keep doing it circular, with a party cut...I like this particular pan.

thanks s_b!
Dayam.........you are good man. I can almost taste/feel the texture sensation in my mouth just looking at those pics.....wow.  8)

Thank you!  :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on October 18, 2014, 10:32:40 PM
Dayam.........you are good man. I can almost taste/feel the texture sensation in my mouth just looking at those pics.....wow.  8)

Thank you!  :chef:

LOL, thanks man,
I think I've had some beginner's luck bakes, but I aint complaining.
The guidance from people here makes things pretty do-able...I got to watch a video tutorial!
You might have to make one of these yourself Bob.

Unfortunately, I just gave the rest to the folks, and now I'm out of pizza.   :-D

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 18, 2014, 10:40:17 PM
LOL, thanks man,
I think I've had some beginner's luck bakes, but I aint complaining.
The guidance from people here makes things pretty do-able...I got to watch a video tutorial!
You might have to make one of these yourself Bob.

Unfortunately, I just gave the rest to the folks, and now I'm out of pizza.   :-D
I hear ya Wood......hate it when the `grown ups`invade one`s stash.   You keep on with the great pizzamaking you are doing pal.  :)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 19, 2014, 12:26:28 PM
I tried this Victory Pig style for the first time tonight, and liked the new experience.
Its like a focaccia, but crispier, at least how mine turned out.
The pics may slightly hide the fact that I made it in a round aluminized steel pan (sorry, no rectangular ones in stock).  ::)

The crust was very crispy and light, the cheese slightly caramelized on the edges, interesting onion/tomato flavor. I think it might be good with some sausage too (but what isn't?).

Where do I pick up a Nash Blue Steel Pan?
Although I could just keep doing it circular, with a party cut...I like this particular pan.

thanks s_b!

Great looking pizza! As far as blue steel pans, I bought mine at PA Products in Livonia, MI. (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html). I have heard that they no longer make them but their web site still lists them as being available. You may need to call them. When I bought mine, I had to call them & speak to somebody to actually place an order, I then had to send them a check before they would ship. They were only selling them by the dozen so that's what I ended up with. Gave the extras to family & friends who also bake this pizza.

Keep bakin'!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 19, 2014, 12:27:37 PM
steel_baker and woodmakesitgood,

Both of your Victory Pig pies sure look good.

Norma

Thanks Norma,

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on October 19, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
Great looking pizza! As far as blue steel pans, I bought mine at PA Products in Livonia, MI. (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html). I have heard that they no longer make them but their web site still lists them as being available. You may need to call them. When I bought mine, I had to call them & speak to somebody to actually place an order, I then had to send them a check before they would ship. They were only selling them by the dozen so that's what I ended up with. Gave the extras to family & friends who also bake this pizza.

Keep bakin'!


Thanks for the info sb, I'll check em out.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 24, 2014, 09:38:31 PM
And tonight..... a tray of white pizza w/broccoli & garlic. mmmmmmm..........

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 31, 2014, 09:09:42 PM
Tonight's tray was spectacular. Had one little sticky spot getting it out of the pan which resulted in torn corner but otherwise, it was just perfect. It was so crispy on the bottom while the crumb above was light & airy. Best part is that now I know it's fully repeatable.

http://youtu.be/v9tTykYzQRA (http://youtu.be/v9tTykYzQRA)

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 31, 2014, 09:25:48 PM
Tonight's tray was spectacular. Had one little sticky spot getting it out of the pan which resulted in torn corner but otherwise, it was just perfect. It was so crispy on the bottom while the crumb above was light & airy. Best part is that now I know it's fully repeatable.

http://youtu.be/v9tTykYzQRA (http://youtu.be/v9tTykYzQRA)
I really like the brightness of your tom sauce.....you`ve got this style down man, very professional looking trays you have been making.   :chef:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 31, 2014, 09:33:37 PM
Thanks Chicago Bob

 ;D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on November 04, 2014, 12:24:29 PM
Tonight's tray was spectacular. Had one little sticky spot getting it out of the pan which resulted in torn corner but otherwise, it was just perfect. It was so crispy on the bottom while the crumb above was light & airy. Best part is that now I know it's fully repeatable.

steel_baker, those last pictures, wow! That pie looks delectable! Your cheese topping is looking very much like Victory Pig's; your undercarriage looks better than VP's!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 04, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
Thanks PizzaBinge.

It's a labor of love....... :drool:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 09, 2014, 10:40:47 PM
I cannot overstate how elated I am to have found this discussion board.  I left NEPA 25 years ago (for Pittsburgh) and of all the things I miss about my beloved home, Victory Pig Pizza is at the top of the list.  Years ago, I found a VP recipe  online and have been making it since with varying success.  My results have been imperfect at best, miles away from the original, but nonetheless ALWAYS a treat.  Now tonight, on a whim, I googled the recipe again and found this discussion.  Wow!  Steel_baker, it looks like you have solved all the riddles for making the perfect Victory Pig pizza!  I will spend the next few days studying this discussion intently, order my blue steel pans, and it seems I am gloriously on my way to an authentic Victory Pig pizza party before Thanksgiving.  Thank you, thank you!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 09, 2014, 11:03:33 PM
Ha! Glad to hear it. I moved to Pittsburgh from the valley in 1990. I spent 30 years trying to figure out how to make it. In 2010 I got snowed in (an unexpected 24" snowfall on a Friday night) so I did some serious research and was able to put the pieces of the puzzle together. BTW, you'll also find some good discussion in the Detroit style pizza forum. Very similar style..... Soft dough pizza raised in the pan. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 10, 2014, 10:05:37 PM
steel_baker, forgive me if this is already answered... Can this dough be made successfully with hand mixing and kneading?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 10, 2014, 11:01:30 PM
Yes, you can definitely hand mix & knead. It's just more work.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 12, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
Hey steel_baker, about the cheese:  That old internet recipe called for muenster cheese.  In an earlier post you dismissed that as incorrect and affirmed that VP actually uses Wisconsin cheddar.   When I first found that old recipe, I actually thought the muenster cheese was an "aha" revelation.  VP cheese was always a mystery to me.  But the muenster really seemed to be right, i.e., a very mild tasting cheese with no "stinky" smell and the same texture as VP.  Now, I want to try Wisconsin cheddar, but I'm at a loss as to where to get it.  Where did you buy it when you were in Pittsburgh?  We usually shop Giant Eagle and I haven't seen it there.

By the way, I was born and raised in Pittston and my idea of another wonderful pizza is Savo's.  In contrast to the Ceccoli's family, the Savokinas family has never been secretive about their pizza cheese.  It's good old white American. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 12, 2014, 11:18:44 PM
Hey steel_baker, about the cheese:  That old internet recipe called for muenster cheese.  In an earlier post you dismissed that as incorrect and affirmed that VP actually uses Wisconsin cheddar.   When I first found that old recipe, I actually thought the muenster cheese was an "aha" revelation.  VP cheese was always a mystery to me.  But the muenster really seemed to be right, i.e., a very mild tasting cheese with no "stinky" smell and the same texture as VP.  Now, I want to try Wisconsin cheddar, but I'm at a loss as to where to get it.  Where did you buy it when you were in Pittsburgh?  We usually shop Giant Eagle and I haven't seen it there.

By the way, I was born and raised in Pittston and my idea of another wonderful pizza is Savo's.  In contrast to the Ceccoli's family, the Savokinas family has never been secretive about their pizza cheese.  It's good old white American.

Joe C,

You can use Vermont White Cheddar & get the same results. Giant Eagle, Costco, & Sam's Club all have it. It's virtually the same thing anyway. Cabot seems to be the common one but there are others. I just buy any white cheddar that I can find & it all seems to work well. We also have Tillamook in a lot of the stores out here in Colorado. The unique thing about VP is that they sliced their onions & cheese paper thin on a meat slicer, then laid the onions on the sauce followed by the sliced cheese on top. These days, if you look at the cuts closely you can see the cheese seams on the cuts sometimes.

What also works nicely is a 50/50 blend of mozzarella & white cheddar. Still had the white cheddar tang but the stringiness of the mozzarella as well.

Good luck & enjoy baking..... made several trays tonight for some friends & relatives and it was great.

 ;D

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 13, 2014, 09:26:04 PM
Since finding this forum, I've been pretty much obsessed with talking about Victory Pig pizza.  (My new pans from Red Hill General store arrive tomorrow and I'm planning on making two pies for the evening.)  Meanwhile, I've been trying to describe the whole Victory Pig restaurant experience to my kids who were all raised in Pittsburgh.  The family that owns the restaurant is deadly serious about the whole business.  (Also apparently socially conservative...Back in the 60's they were infamous for refusing service to long haired hippie-types.) Visiting the restaurant, for either take-out or eat-in was always an event.  I don't think the decor has changed significantly in 50 years.  I believe they still have curb service to this day, where you can pull into a parking lot on either side of the building, blink your lights, and a white-coated car hop will come out and take your order.  Inside, there is about a 20 foot square service counter always surrounded by customers waiting for take-out orders.  The table servers and car hops would never go back into the kitchen; they retrieved the prepared orders at the same service counter.  Behind the counter, the owner sat at a cash register collecting money and making change.  Payment is all cash no credit cards and no one but the owner operates that register.  The kitchen was visible only through a small window opening also behind the counter where all one could see was the white shirts of the kitchen staff and arms passing prepared trays through the opening.  Inside the service counter area, you would notice an array of small closed-circuit television monitors positioned below the countertop area so as to be visible to the owner sitting at the register.  The TV's were connected to cameras monitoring activity in the parking lots and (I think) in the kitchen.  To me, the total atmosphere of the setup was humorously intimidating.  I wouldn't exactly liken it to Seinfeld's Soup Nazi (the owner rarely acknowledged a customer or uttered a word) but otherwise it's not a far-off comparison.  At peak times, the place operated with military-like precision and seriousness.  Evidently, it is a winning management style because, for decades, crowds of satisfied customers have kept coming and always, without exception, the pizza was (is) superb!  Those acquainted with Victory Pig only through this forum would find a trek to Wyoming, PA to experience the real thing well worth the trip! 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 14, 2014, 12:34:18 AM
Since finding this forum, I've been pretty much obsessed with talking about Victory Pig pizza.  (My new pans from Red Hill General store arrive tomorrow and I'm planning on making two pies for the evening.)  Meanwhile, I've been trying to describe the whole Victory Pig restaurant experience to my kids who were all raised in Pittsburgh.  The family that owns the restaurant is deadly serious about the whole business.  (Also apparently socially conservative...Back in the 60's they were infamous for refusing service to long haired hippie-types.) Visiting the restaurant, for either take-out or eat-in was always an event.  I don't think the decor has changed significantly in 50 years.  I believe they still have curb service to this day, where you can pull into a parking lot on either side of the building, blink your lights, and a white-coated car hop will come out and take your order.  Inside, there is about a 20 foot square service counter always surrounded by customers waiting for take-out orders.  The table servers and car hops would never go back into the kitchen; they retrieved the prepared orders at the same service counter.  Behind the counter, the owner sat at a cash register collecting money and making change.  Payment is all cash no credit cards and no one but the owner operates that register.  The kitchen was visible only through a small window opening also behind the counter where all one could see was the white shirts of the kitchen staff and arms passing prepared trays through the opening.  Inside the service counter area, you would notice an array of small closed-circuit television monitors positioned below the countertop area so as to be visible to the owner sitting at the register.  The TV's were connected to cameras monitoring activity in the parking lots and (I think) in the kitchen.  To me, the total atmosphere of the setup was humorously intimidating.  I wouldn't exactly liken it to Seinfeld's Soup Nazi (the owner rarely acknowledged a customer or uttered a word) but otherwise it's not a far-off comparison.  At peak times, the place operated with military-like precision and seriousness.  Evidently, it is a winning management style because, for decades, crowds of satisfied customers have kept coming and always, without exception, the pizza was (is) superb!  Those acquainted with Victory Pig only through this forum would find a trek to Wyoming, PA to experience the real thing well worth the trip!


Great description Joe. That's exactly how they operate. You can make other things with this dough as well. I've made a focaccia before & it turned out really well. Detailed it here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20933.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20933.0.html)

 ;)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 14, 2014, 06:33:30 AM


Great description Joe. That's exactly how they operate. You can make other things with this dough as well. I've made a focaccia before & it turned out really well. Detailed it here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20933.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20933.0.html)

 ;)

Looks fantastic!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 15, 2014, 10:03:06 AM
steel_baker, sorry to keep bugging you, but another question:  As to dough preparation, is this something you must time more or less to coincide with the planned serving time?  I think you referenced making the preparing the dough the evening before, or early the morning...  My confusion is, assuming you start the process in the morning, spreading the dough in the oiled pan, don't you then have to top the dough and put it immediately into the oven once it's gone through the second rise/knock down?   I'm thinking the rise/knockdown process has to be more or less perfectly timed to coincide with your planned bake/serve time, no?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 15, 2014, 10:06:09 AM
steel_baker, sorry to keep bugging you, but another question:  As to dough preparation, is this something you must time more or less to coincide with the planned serving time?  I think you referenced making the preparing the dough the evening before, or early the morning...  My confusion is, assuming you start the process in the morning, spreading the dough in the oiled pan, don't you then have to top the dough and put it immediately into the oven once it's gone through the second rise/knock down?   I'm thinking the rise/knockdown process has to be more or less perfectly timed to coincide with your planned bake/serve time, no?

I prepare my dough first thing in the morning & it sits rising in the pan all day (covered of course). When I'm ready to bake, I knock it down, top, & bake.  :D
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 15, 2014, 10:10:55 AM
I prepare my dough first thing in the morning & it sits rising in the pan all day (covered of course). When I'm ready to bake, I knock it down, top, & bake.  :D

Perfect!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: jsperk on November 26, 2014, 02:57:37 PM
Here was my Victory pig sort of. I went to heavy on the cheese and added some Mrs. Dash. Next time I wont stray from the recipe. I guess it was pretty much a Victory Pig/Detroit style.

Maybe my TF was to high. Not sure.

Very tasty though.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 26, 2014, 03:31:02 PM
The simple flavors of VP pizza (tomatoes, onions, salt, tangy white cheddar, fried crust) are the essence. That, coupled with the creamy mouth feel & crispy crust just take it over the top. Nothing wrong with variations on it. You'll still get the mouth feel & crispness. Just different flavors on top.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on November 26, 2014, 10:29:37 PM
Don't skimp on the oil.
I made a Victory Pig pizza today, and got the good browning on the bottom, but not crispy fried on the bottom, just the sides.

Before I added the dough I used a small amount of oil, while the recipe calls for a specific amount to be poured, what looks to be a liberal amount.
I will rectify this on the reheated slices! 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on December 06, 2014, 09:39:37 PM
My most recent effort. After weeks of coming close, by George I think we've got it.  I switched to non-stick Calphalon pans. They seem to conduct the heat much better at 460 degrees in my electric oven and I get a perfectly browned and crispy crust.  The pans are 12X17 and only about 1" deep, but they have a plastic lid that works great for covering the dough during rising.  No issue at all with oil overflow during baking and absolutely no sticking! I increased the ingredients by 20% because it seems the cooking area of these pans is larger than the 12X17 blue steel pans. On previous tries, while the dough had risen well, the crust seemed a bit thin.  Increasing the ingredients yielded a thicker slice, more like VP.  Ultimate compliment from wifey: "It's better than the Pig!"
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 06, 2014, 10:43:48 PM
It looks great!  :drool:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on December 25, 2014, 07:30:45 PM
I by chance happened upon this forum a little while back. I'm originally from Northeastern PA and currently reside in the Boston area. My 1st contact with the VP pizza was many years ago. I have more recent experience with a knock off called Pizza Loven located in Hanover PA which is accessable to me with my daughters both going to Penn State. I have always had an obsession with this pizza since it is like no other and think there is a gold mine in opening a pizzaria selling it since all of the Cicolli family members and knock offs make for a good business. All do well. I approached one owner years ago about franchising it but was young and had no start up money. The owner of pizza Loven is to my knowledge the only non family member to learn the complete recipe and secret of making it. There's another called Sizzle pie in Kingston which is similar but lacks a little. I'm looking foward to giving this recipe a whirl. One secret they have kept is their source of Wisconsin cheddar. I found a place called hennings which I don't believe is it, that will export.. Without getting too long winded in this post,I want to point out a slight difference that  Pizza loven does use some mild seasoning in the sauce and rather than mixing chopped onions in the sauce they add as a topping once the pizza comes from the oven. I will often stop there when going through PA and pick up pizza to place in my deep freeze.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 25, 2014, 08:02:18 PM
As far as obtaining the Wisconsin White Cheddar, Genoa Foods (http://www.genoafoods.com/ (http://www.genoafoods.com/)) is their purveyor and supplies the Wisconsin White Cheddar. You can use Vermont White Cheddar (available most grocery stores, Sam's Club, & Costco) for pretty much the same flavor.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on December 25, 2014, 09:46:12 PM
thanks for the info. 42 lbs is a little much to order if I'm reading their product list properly.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 25, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
thanks for the info. 42 lbs is a little much to order if I'm reading their product list properly.
I believe Norma buys this cheese for her Detroit's at Market.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on December 25, 2014, 10:13:49 PM
In my opinion once you get the crust perfected, you're home.  From that point, variations in cheese and tomatoes just make the difference between really good and great.  It's all good. 

If you're chasing after replicating Victory Pig, I think "brick cheese" is it.  It's a very mild tasting Vermont cheddar and I'm convinced it's what they use at VP.  I get it sliced not shredded and use a single layer, about 3/4 pound per tray.  It's perfect. 

Incidentally, after experimenting with various tomato brand names and varieties, I've settled on Cento brand crushed tomatoes.  This brand is chunkier and thicker than other brands I've tried and as close to VP as I've gotten.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 25, 2014, 10:18:49 PM
I believe Norma buys this cheese for her Detroit's at Market.

Bob,

I do purchase mild white cheddar in blocks of over 40 lbs., but it is not the same brand Victory Pig uses.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 25, 2014, 11:09:27 PM
In my opinion once you get the crust perfected, you're home.  From that point, variations in cheese and tomatoes just make the difference between really good and great.  It's all good. 

If you're chasing after replicating Victory Pig, I think "brick cheese" is it.  It's a very mild tasting Vermont cheddar and I'm convinced it's what they use at VP.  I get it sliced not shredded and use a single layer, about 3/4 pound per tray.  It's perfect. 

Incidentally, after experimenting with various tomato brand names and varieties, I've settled on Cento brand crushed tomatoes.  This brand is chunkier and thicker than other brands I've tried and as close to VP as I've gotten.

VP uses Contadina brand canned tomato products and if you check the list of products at Genoa Foods, Wisconsin White Cheddar is the very first cheese on their cheese list. That's what VP uses. They buy their cheese in 42lb blocks and slice it on the meat slicer and layer it on the tray.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on December 25, 2014, 11:31:55 PM
most likely Pizza Loven uses the same. Thanks for all your efforts can't wait to give your recipe a try
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on December 25, 2014, 11:36:20 PM
VP uses Contadina brand canned tomato products and if you check the list of products at Genoa Foods, Wisconsin White Cheddar is the very first cheese on their cheese list. That's what VP uses. They buy their cheese in 42lb blocks and slice it on the meat slicer and layer it on the tray.

Sounds right, Contadina is a very popular brand among Italian cooks in Northeast PA area.  Progresso is another.  If i can find it, gonna try the Contadina brand next bake.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 26, 2014, 08:57:11 AM
I was curious about what brands of cheddar Genoa Wholesale Foods sells in the 42 lb. average blocks since I also purchase cheddar in big blocks.  I called Genoa Wholesale Foods this morning.  The man that talked to me asked if I sent an email about the same question.  I said I did not send an email.  The man told me that the Wisconsin cheddar they sell is from various producers of cheddar.  He said right now the Wisconsin cheddar is Nasonville.  I said I had tried Nasonville and wasn't too thrilled with it, but then I was told the block of cheddar I had purchased from Bova was older, from someone else by the date on the box.  I asked what the difference was from the Land O' Lakes cheddar in the blocks from the Nasonville cheddar.  He told me the Land O' Lakes has a higher butter fat content and they sell a lot more of the Land O' Lakes than the other cheddars.  I asked if he knew the butter fat content of the Land O' Lakes cheddar and he did not know that.   He told me right now the Nasonville cheddar is about 2.18 a lb., and the Land O' lakes is about 2.36 a lb, because of the higher butter fat content.  He also said the prices of both cheddars will be coming down very soon.  I asked if Genoa delivered to my area and he said no they only delivered in the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton area.  I said if I am ever in their area could I pick up a block of the Land O' Lakes cheddar to try. 

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 26, 2014, 09:04:46 AM
Sounds right, Contadina is a very popular brand among Italian cooks in Northeast PA area.  Progresso is another.  If i can find it, gonna try the Contadina brand next bake.

Walmart sells Contadina brand canned tomato products. That's what I buy down here in SW Colorado. We're fairly remote down here so I was glad to be able to find it. Tried the other available brands here and the flavor is not even close to Contadina.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on December 26, 2014, 10:15:41 AM
Genoa Foods
261 S. River Street
Plains, PA, 18705
Phone: (570)-823-6142

Norma,

Since your in lancaster your easily within driving distance of plains,PA which is in Northeastern, PA to get a block. I wonder if they will sell smaller quantities.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 26, 2014, 04:56:54 PM
Genoa Foods
261 S. River Street
Plains, PA, 18705
Phone: (570)-823-6142

Norma,

Since your in lancaster your easily within driving distance of plains,PA which is in Northeastern, PA to get a block. I wonder if they will sell smaller quantities.

Norma,

I am in easy driving distance to Genoa Foods, but that is over a two hour trip one way.  I far as I know distributors don't sell less quantities than 40 some lbs.  I know my distributor will only sell the big blocks and Bova is the same.  I was on a cheddar hunt for my pizzas for over 3 years.   :-D

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on December 26, 2014, 06:05:42 PM
from ther cheese list it says land of lakes cheddar but doesnt say wisconsin cheddar which for the 2nd item is listed as wisconsin cheddar but no name brand which is confusing. Is the LOL a vermont cheddar I wonder?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 26, 2014, 10:30:19 PM
from ther cheese list it says land of lakes cheddar but doesnt say wisconsin cheddar which for the 2nd item is listed as wisconsin cheddar but no name brand which is confusing. Is the LOL a vermont cheddar I wonder?

mkoss,

If I am reading Genoa Wholesale Foods cheeses right it looks to me like the LOL cheese might be Land O' Lakes white American cheese.  I can purchase the Land O' Lakes white American cheese in regular supermarkets in my area.  http://www.landolakes.com/product/48108/american-cheese

Maybe another member might have read the Genoa cheese list different than me.  I had looked many cheese lists from distributors and have been confused many times at how they label their cheeses.  If you were to go on the boardwalk thread you could see how many cheddars I tried.  Many distributors just say cheddar on their cheese lists, but don't really say what the brand is, or how sharp it might or might not be.  For the 40 some lb. blocks there are coding numbers on the cardboard boxes that lead to where the cheddar was produced. 

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 26, 2014, 10:42:21 PM
I just recalled that NepaBill posted on the boardwalk thread that City Mager in Wilkes Barre sells the 5 lb. blocks of Land O' Lakes cheddar at Reply 755 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg150534.html#msg150534  NepaBill also posted about the same thing at Reply 752 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg150442.html#msg150442

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on December 27, 2014, 10:05:16 AM
Norma,

A while back I bought some pizza and sauce from Pizza L'oven to bring back to Boston. They gave me a cardboard container to carry it in that had Wisconsin cheddar labels but no manufacturer but I think a lot number on it. Probably threw it out but may have held onto it thinking I could track down where it came from. I will look it 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on December 27, 2014, 10:16:17 AM
Norma,

A while back I bought some pizza and sauce from Pizza L'oven to bring back to Boston. They gave me a cardboard container to carry it in that had Wisconsin cheddar labels but no manufacturer but I think a lot number on it. Probably threw it out but may have held onto it thinking I could track down where it came from. I will look it

mkoss,

If you find the Wisconsin label I can give you a link so you will know which manufacturer made that cheddar from Pizza L'oven. 

Norma

Edited: 

This is a link that shows how to enable the user to locate and identify the business office and plant location of every licensed dairy plant in Wisconsin.  http://future.aae.wisc.edu/publications/dairyplnt6_01.pdf  There are other links, but right now I don't recall where they are.  Zing knows a lot about different cheeses for pizzas.

If you read Zing's post at Reply 1 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29728.msg297699.html#msg297699 you can see the pizza cheese world is very confusing.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on December 28, 2014, 09:45:06 AM
An homage to Arcaro & Genell's, Old Forge PA.  Shrimp & Hot Peppers.  Sounds awful, but it's delicious!
By now, I have the crust perfected to where there's "a crunch in every bite".  We are totally enjoying steel_baker's VP recipe and thank him again for the hard work!  Happy New Year to all. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chem1 on January 01, 2015, 10:02:05 AM
Is anyone doing a "group buy" on these pans in the not too distant future?

http://www.paprod.com/pans.html

If so, I would be interested in buying 2 of them.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 01, 2015, 10:20:53 AM
Just in case anyone is curious. Here is my modified dough recipe for high altitude. I had to increase flour & water and completely eliminate the oil. I also use a 50/50 blend of Bread & Self Rising flour. This crust is extremely light & airy, crisps up beautifully & really carries the toppings. The altitude here is just a shade under 7,000' above sea level. It took me over a year to figure out this modified recipe. I had to determine how much to "slow down" the yeast to keep it from rising too fast. Too fast of a rise does not allow the structure of the dough to develop and if baked just falls apart into crumbs. When I first started over a year ago at this altitude, using the low altitude recipe, the dough would fill the pan corner to corner in about 45 minutes. It takes about 3 hours with this modified recipe.

Pizza dough 12x17 pan - High Altitude

Flour       | 100%| 430g
Water      |  70% | 301g
Salt         |  2.0%| 9g
IDY         |  2.3%| 10g
Sugar      |  2.0%| 9g
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 03, 2015, 12:50:58 PM
Last evening's tray of red, high altitude dough recipe. Used about 50% more sauce than usual since I had a few extra ozs to use up so it's a bit saucier than usual. Very pleased with the results.



Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on January 03, 2015, 03:22:05 PM
Here's a photo of the Victory Pig kitchen, circa 2008.  The restaurant was featured in a local newspaper article.  I thought this pic was interesting so I ordered a high-res copy from the paper.  Owner Mr. Ceccoli is seated far left.  Mrs. Ceccoli is front applying sauce to the pizzas.  Note, this pic appears to show the assembly operation from start to finish.  Starting at upper right, it looks like those ladies pass the dough trays to Mrs. Ceccoli; She applies the sauce;  passes the tray to the boy to her right who applies the cheese and apparently then passes the tray forward to the baking area (not pictured).  Baked trays are passed to where Mr. Ceccoli is seated where they cool on a rack; then passed to the two boys at the wooden table who presumably cut the trays for serving.  Notice the small window located at the back of the boy with the red cap -  This is where trays are passed out into the restaurant/customer area.  You can see a server leaning against the counter waiting for the next tray. 

Another interesting observation is that Genoa Heavy Tomato Puree is evidently a part of their recipe. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 03, 2015, 05:21:45 PM
Here's a photo of the Victory Pig kitchen, circa 2008.  The restaurant was featured in a local newspaper article.  I thought this pic was interesting so I ordered a high-res copy from the paper.  Owner Mr. Ceccoli is seated far left.  Mrs. Ceccoli is front applying sauce to the pizzas.  Note, this pic appears to show the assembly operation from start to finish.  Starting at upper right, it looks like those ladies pass the dough trays to Mrs. Ceccoli; She applies the sauce;  passes the tray to the boy to her right who applies the cheese and apparently then passes the tray forward to the baking area (not pictured).  Baked trays are passed to where Mr. Ceccoli is seated where they cool on a rack; then passed to the two boys at the wooden table who presumably cut the trays for serving.  Notice the small window located at the back of the boy with the red cap -  This is where trays are passed out into the restaurant/customer area.  You can see a server leaning against the counter waiting for the next tray. 

Another interesting observation is that Genoa Heavy Tomato Puree is evidently a part of their recipe.

Great stuff Joe C. That is interesting about the tomato puree. I've seen a few different versions of their sauce which always seem to include tomato paste, puree, water, etc. I know that the Ceccoli's were, shall we say "thrifty" and so saved on many of their supplies whenever they could. I have a recipe provide by an employee but the hydration appears wrong. It's only 50% hydration and that dough would be far too dry & crumbly at that low a hydration. It appears to be on target with the other ingredients though.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 03, 2015, 05:27:17 PM
Joe C,

After you posted about the photo you purchased, I looked on Google images for a similar photo.  There appears to be 6 photos (including the better one you posted) at http://citizensvoice.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?image=41627847&event=1464320&CategoryID=48892 

I soon would like to give steel_baker's excellent formulation a try again.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on January 04, 2015, 09:40:33 AM
Great stuff Joe C. That is interesting about the tomato puree. I've seen a few different versions of their sauce which always seem to include tomato paste, puree, water, etc. I know that the Ceccoli's were, shall we say "thrifty" and so saved on many of their supplies whenever they could. I have a recipe provide by an employee but the hydration appears wrong. It's only 50% hydration and that dough would be far too dry & crumbly at that low a hydration. It appears to be on target with the other ingredients though.

I'm not surprised that they would use Genoa products since that company is the leading supplier in the area.  I'm a little thrown off by the tomato puree though; my recollection of VP sauce is that it is actually a bit chunky and even has pieces of tomato in it.  Puree would be just completely saucy, right?  As you suggest, they likely use some sort of combination.  In addition to the Genoa puree can in the photo, notice the can of water to the right of the large stainless steel bowl.  I'd guess that she periodically replenishes the bowl with measures of puree, water and maybe crushed tomatoes(?). 

For us, it's all academic at this point.  You've cracked the code for the perfect home-made version, no doubt.

Meanwhile, a couple of other things of note in the picture:  The boy with the black cap standing at the wooden table.  In front of him is a stainless steel cutting template into which they place the pizza pies for perfect sized cuts every time.  I'll bet that's a custom-made item.   The other thing, in front of Mr. Ceccoli, note the cooling rack.  For my home version, I've found that cooling on a rack for a couple of minutes before cutting is key to maintaining the crispiness of the bottom crust.  Before using a rack, I noticed that placing an oven-hot pie immediately on a flat surface seemed to result in steam taking away from the crispiness.  Recall that, occasionally you would get a less crispy tray from VP.  That might have been attributed to their busiest hours when pies weren't allowed to cool sufficiently before moving over to the cutting table. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 04, 2015, 10:50:40 AM
Meanwhile, a couple of other things of note in the picture:  The boy with the black cap standing at the wooden table.  In front of him is a stainless steel cutting template into which they place the pizza pies for perfect sized cuts every time.  I'll bet that's a custom-made item.   The other thing, in front of Mr. Ceccoli, note the cooling rack.  For my home version, I've found that cooling on a rack for a couple of minutes before cutting is key to maintaining the crispiness of the bottom crust.  Before using a rack, I noticed that placing an oven-hot pie immediately on a flat surface seemed to result in steam taking away from the crispiness.  Recall that, occasionally you would get a less crispy tray from VP.  That might have been attributed to their busiest hours when pies weren't allowed to cool sufficiently before moving over to the cutting table.

Yes, the cooling rack serves two purposes; 1) to maintain crispiness when the pizza comes out of the oven, & 2) to reclaim the leftover oil from the pans. Further up in this thread, there is a posting from a former employee at Pizza L'Oven confirms the techniques & ingredients used to make this pizza. I believe it is post #13. Don't know quite how to copy & paste it into this reply but it's there. He explains the cooling rack & oil reclamation.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pete-zza on January 04, 2015, 11:19:01 AM
steel_baker,

This is Reply 13: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg142525.html#msg142525 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13048.msg142525.html#msg142525)

An easy way to post a link to a selected post is to 1) click on the topic heading of the selected post, 2) right click on it as it appears in the address bar and select Copy, and 3) in the spot in the post where you want to insert the link, right click and select Copy. You can also use Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V keyboard commands as an alternative method. To make sure that the copied link is properly imbedded in the post, I suggest that you highlight the link and click on the Insert Hyperlink button. That button appears below the letter B in the group of buttons that appear above the emoticons.

Peter
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 04, 2015, 11:25:08 AM
Thanks Pete. Good info.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 06, 2015, 07:43:10 PM
steel_baker,

I attempted another Victory Pig pizza today.  I didn't have peanut oil to oil the pan so I used Grape Seed Oil.  I don't know if my crust rose too much in the proof.  The bottom crust was crisp this time.  My family really liked this attempt.

I mixed the dough after lunch.  This sure was an easy dough to proof at room temperature.

Thanks!

Norma

Edit:  I couldn't find my slicer to slice the cheddar, so I had to use my mandolin.  The slices were not very even.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 06, 2015, 07:48:14 PM
Looks good Norma. After my dough goes into the pan, it just sits all day at room temp. I make my dough by 9AM and bake pizza at 6PM so over the course of the day, it fills the pan corner to corner. Then I knock it down, top it, and bake it.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 06, 2015, 08:02:11 PM
Looks good Norma. After my dough goes into the pan, it just sits all day at room temp. I make my dough by 9AM and bake pizza at 6PM so over the course of the day, it fills the pan corner to corner. Then I knock it down, top it, and bake it.

steel_baker,

I didn't knock the dough down.  I guess that was one of my problems.

Norma

This was when I put the dough in the steel pan.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 06, 2015, 08:30:53 PM
Yes, knock it down just before topping. It will keep the thickness down a bit & the oven spring will take care of the rest.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 06, 2015, 09:23:11 PM
Yes, knock it down just before topping. It will keep the thickness down a bit & the oven spring will take care of the rest.

steel_baker,

I don't how I missed the part about knocking the proofed dough before adding the sauce and cheese.  I will do better for the next attempt.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 06, 2015, 09:28:50 PM
I used to think that I needed to leave the dough raised when I topped it. I realized then that it was coming out too thick so I started knocking it down before topping it. That gave it the correct VP thickness.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 06, 2015, 09:49:44 PM
I used to think that I needed to leave the dough raised when I topped it. I realized then that it was coming out too thick so I started knocking it down before topping it. That gave it the correct VP thickness.

steel_baker,

I read through some of your posts and used Peter's formulation he figured out in baker's percents for what you used.  I thought the dough proofed too much, but then I thought there was 8 grams of IDY in the dough.  I didn't think to look back though your thread to see you what you did before the bake.  It is good your experimented to see what works right for a VP TF.   :chef:

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 10, 2015, 08:07:16 PM
steel_baker,

I made another attempt with your recipe.  I still think my Victory Pig attempt might be too thick.  It is very tasty though.  I sprinkled Greek oregano on the pizza near the end of the bake which I know you don't do.  I did punch the dough down right before the bake.  I took 3 photos of the dough in the pan, after the dough proofed, and after it was punched down.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 10, 2015, 08:08:28 PM
Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on January 18, 2015, 11:42:05 PM
Wow, I haven't been here in a little bit and I stop by and see a lot of people making excellent VP style pizzas!
I'm up to 6 blue steel pans and I'm making several pizzas every week, though they're a few steps away from VP style. I've changed them to be a little thinner and I've tweaked my cheese blend.
Here's the last one I baked. It has soppressata, ricotta, and spicy honey.

Joe_C - that's awesome that you thought to get a copy of that pic! Your pizza looks spot on. I love the one with the peppers & shrimp; I too use those peppers, it reminds me of Ricci's Pizza, a place in Wilkes Barre, PA that sells a lot of slices with the peppers on.

Norma - I live in Downingtown which isn't too far from you. I'm going to make it a priority to visit one day soon!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: norma427 on January 19, 2015, 02:19:43 AM

Norma - I live in Downingtown which isn't too far from you. I'm going to make it a priority to visit one day soon!


Pizza Binge,

You are probably about 45 minutes away from where market is.  Stop up sometime.

Norma
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: communist on January 25, 2015, 10:37:29 AM
I began making Victory Pig pizza at home after a visit to the pizza parlor in Wyoming PA a couple of months ago.  Thank you steel baker for your expertise.  An observation:  When I have the pizza at the Pig, I noticed the bright tomato and onion flavored sauce, but then noticed low salt taste.  At home, when I added salt to my sauce, it seemed the bright tomato and onion flavor was muted.  My question is, does increased salt help taste in one way, while muting the bright tomato flavor?  Any thoughts?  Mark
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on January 25, 2015, 01:11:10 PM
Is anyone doing a "group buy" on these pans in the not too distant future?

http://www.paprod.com/pans.html

If so, I would be interested in buying 2 of them.

CHEM1:  IMHO, unless you're making this pizza in a commercial setting the blue steel pans aren't necessary, or even preferable.  My first few tries were with steel pans purchased online at red hill general store and results were okay.  But.... first there is a bit of work to get them seasoned properly.  I also found that covering with plastic wrap was kind of a hassle.  And it seemed my electric oven didn't do a very good job of browning the pizza in those pans.  Ultimately, I decided to experiment with a good household quality non-stick pan.  I bought one of these 12X17 Calphalon pans that I think are commonly referred to as jelly roll pans. Sort of expensive (around $25) but worth the money. Anyway, the Calphalon pan worked out perfectly and I've since bought a second one.  The actual cooking area is a bit larger than the blue steel pans, so I increased the volume of dough ingredients by 20%.  The plastic top is the best part as it eliminates the need to mess with cling wrap and the top is transparent enough so you can see how well the dough is rising.  Most important, the pizza bakes much better in my electric oven and I consistently get a perfectly browned and crispy bottom crust.  You can buy them online at calphalon.com or you can also find them in stores.   
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 25, 2015, 06:30:15 PM
I have aluminum lids for my blue steel pans. No plastic necessary. In addition, my pans are extremely light gauge so they heat quickly & brown the crust nicely.  Certainly you can get by without them, but the additional depth of the PA Product blue steel pizza pans (2-1/2") eliminates overflow or splashing of the oil while the pizza bakes. It's no fun when you smoke up the oven with overflowing oil in a really hot oven.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on January 25, 2015, 07:15:49 PM
I have aluminum lids for my blue steel pans. No plastic necessary. In addition, my pans are extremely light gauge so they heat quickly & brown the crust nicely.  Certainly you can get by without them, but the additional depth of the PA Product blue steel pizza pans (2-1/2") eliminates overflow or splashing of the oil while the pizza bakes. It's no fun when you smoke up the oven with overflowing oil in a really hot oven.

Yes, the possible overflow of oil was a concern when I first decided to experiment with this non-stick pan.  But surprisingly as it turned out, it wasn't an issue at all.  The 1/4 cup of oil is apparently just enough to give the dough a good fry but not enough to spill over.  I suspect my issues with the steel pans had more to do with my own impatience with seasoning them properly than anything else.  But I do think my electric oven played a part as well.  Anyhow once I found success with the non-stick pans, there was no turning back.  Just made a tray tonight and once again it was perfectly crispy and delicious.  I feel like I hit the pizza lottery every time I use your recipe! 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chem1 on January 26, 2015, 04:01:59 PM
Thanks Joe_C!  I appreciate the input.  It's actually kind of a moot point now though because I called to order a whole set (thinking others might be interested in 1 or 2 of the "extra" ones) and they told me that they are no longer available.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 30, 2015, 02:23:16 PM
Tonight's tray will be a new flavor. A white tray, toppings featuring garlic infused EVOO, chopped garlic, crumbled homemade chicken fennel sausage, & rough chopped Hatch Green Chiles. This is the southwest after all & we have an entire case of green chilies (and we just luv 'em).

Can't wait, dough is made & sitting in the pan rising, cheese is shredded, just need to grind & season a few chicken thighs for the sausage (fresh ground fennel seed I think), clean & chop the chilies, & chop the garlic & infuse the olive oil over some light heat.

Pictures to follow.   :drool:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on January 30, 2015, 07:58:17 PM

Tonight's tray will be a new flavor. A white tray, toppings featuring garlic infused EVOO, chopped garlic, crumbled homemade chicken fennel sausage, & rough chopped Hatch Green Chiles.

Pictures to follow.   :drool:

That sounds delectable, s_b! Can't wait to see it / hear about it.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 30, 2015, 09:13:47 PM
I began making Victory Pig pizza at home after a visit to the pizza parlor in Wyoming PA a couple of months ago.  Thank you steel baker for your expertise.  An observation:  When I have the pizza at the Pig, I noticed the bright tomato and onion flavored sauce, but then noticed low salt taste.  At home, when I added salt to my sauce, it seemed the bright tomato and onion flavor was muted.  My question is, does increased salt help taste in one way, while muting the bright tomato flavor?  Any thoughts?  Mark

My initial bake called for salt in the tomatoes but I no longer do that. Seems canned tomatoes have enough salt all by them self. In addition, salting the dough as the first part of topping the tray provides the necessary saltiness. I've found that Contadina brand crushed tomatoes seem to duplicate the VP tomato flavor very closely.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 30, 2015, 09:22:27 PM
OK, here are some pics of tonight's tray. I have to say that of the alternative toppings I've tried using this crust, this one might be the best I've ever tasted. It was amazing. The fresh fennel from the chicken sausage really gave this pizza a great sausage flavor, the green chiles provided that low & slow green chile burn & the garlic & EVOO just pulled it all together. It was outstanding!

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on January 30, 2015, 09:30:38 PM
OK, here are some pics of tonight's tray. I have to say that of the alternative toppings I've tried using this crust, this one might be the best I've ever tasted. It was amazing. The fresh fennel from the chicken sausage really gave this pizza a great sausage flavor, the green chiles provided that low & slow green chile burn & the garlic & EVOO just pulled it all together. It was outstanding!

Looks delicious!!! 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on January 30, 2015, 10:59:03 PM

OK, here are some pics of tonight's tray. I have to say that of the alternative toppings I've tried using this crust, this one might be the best I've ever tasted. It was amazing. The fresh fennel from the chicken sausage really gave this pizza a great sausage flavor, the green chiles provided that low & slow green chile burn & the garlic & EVOO just pulled it all together. It was outstanding!

Looks so good I can almost taste it!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on January 31, 2015, 08:46:42 AM
steel_baker,

I made another attempt with your recipe.  I still think my Victory Pig attempt might be too thick.  It is very tasty though.  I sprinkled Greek oregano on the pizza near the end of the bake which I know you don't do.  I did punch the dough down right before the bake.  I took 3 photos of the dough in the pan, after the dough proofed, and after it was punched down.

Norma

This looks delicious!  My wife (who loves VP as much as I do) is getting a little tired of me making it every week.  But after looking at your photos, another two pies tonight for sure!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on January 31, 2015, 08:52:58 AM
For tonight, think I'll try one plain pie, and another 1/2 shrimp/hot peppers and 1/2 sausage/pepperoni.  Nothing more fun to do on an 11° day in Pittsburgh. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on January 31, 2015, 10:43:23 AM
For tonight, think I'll try one plain pie, and another 1/2 shrimp/hot peppers and 1/2 sausage/pepperoni.  Nothing more fun to do on an 11° day in Pittsburgh.

 ^^^

I developed my recipe in February 2010 while snowed in one weekend in Cranberry Twp. Forecast was for 8-10" of snow overnight on a friday & instead we woke up to 22" on saturday morning. So yes, snowy weekends in the 'burgh are the best time to experiment with pizza.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: rOBee on February 09, 2015, 11:20:52 PM
I made three of these pizzas this weekend.  Fantastic.  Just beautiful.  Taste and texture were wonderful.  Never had VP -- I live in Idaho and grew up in Florida -- but this just blew people away.  First time I used a scale to measure ingredients and it made a huge difference.  I was a little concerned about elevation (I'm at about 3000 feet here in Boise) but I think it was fine. 

Thank you steel_baker and other contributors in this thread -- I really appreciate it.  I'm a total cooking freak -- I cook all sorts of things from all over the world, but very little beats pizza and fried chicken, and this was a memorable pizza.  The attention to detail that you all have really makes a difference.

A million thanks.

rOB 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on February 09, 2015, 11:25:13 PM
I made three of these pizzas this weekend.  Fantastic.  Just beautiful.  Taste and texture were wonderful.  Never had VP -- I live in Idaho and grew up in Florida -- but this just blew people away.  First time I used a scale to measure ingredients and it made a huge difference.  I was a little concerned about elevation (I'm at about 3000 feet here in Boise) but I think it was fine. 

Thank you steel_baker and other contributors in this thread -- I really appreciate it.  I'm a total cooking freak -- I cook all sorts of things from all over the world, but very little beats pizza and fried chicken, and this was a memorable pizza.  The attention to detail that you all have really makes a difference.

A million thanks.

rOB

Glad you enjoyed it. It's a unique style that I grew up with. Many people who grew up in that area have tried to duplicate it for decades after growing up & leaving. I don't claim it's a perfect duplicate but I will say it's pretty damn close. The best part is that once you know how to make the dough, you can top it any way you want & develop some amazing flavor profiles.

Keep baking!

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on April 12, 2015, 06:44:39 PM
The Pig is loose!

I had some dough that was a bit overfermented, and I thought this style might be able to work in spite of that.
It turned out pretty good...the crust was a little more chewy this time and had a slight sourness.
It was like a SD Victory Pig.
(I know, its round)  ;)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on April 12, 2015, 07:27:18 PM
Looks great. My original experiments while figuring out the dough was done in round cast iron skillets. The shape doesn't matter.

I did a chicken fennel sausage & hatch green chile tray for this evening. Made one last evening for dinner guests & it was so good, we had to make another today! Sausage is homemade from boneless skinless chicken thighs. Grind 'em up in the food processor, add some fresh ground fennel seed to it & saute' until cooked. The green chiles are....well just cleaned & chopped roasted hatch green chiles. We buy a case every year when green chile season comes along & freeze them so we have them all year long. In addition, we infused a few ozs of EVOO with freshly chopped garlic to drizzle on to finish topping the tray.

The richness of the sausage & the low & slow burn of the mild green chiles is pulled together by the garlic oil & creamy white cheddar. This pizza is absolutely decadent with strong flavors on a crispy crust. It's become one of our real favorites to make on the VP style crust.

Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on April 12, 2015, 07:38:17 PM
That flavor combo sounds delicious!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Johnny the Gent on April 21, 2015, 10:32:17 PM
That flavor combo sounds delicious!

 ^^^

 :drool: green chillies.must.get
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on April 23, 2015, 12:03:09 AM
We normally use fresh green chiles since we buy a case of fresh roasted chiles every year, but we also keep canned green chiles around. These are really great to keep in your pantry and even though they're canned, they're pretty damn good.

http://www.hatchchileco.com/ (http://www.hatchchileco.com/)

 :)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Pizza Baker on May 06, 2015, 01:36:48 PM
Looks great. My original experiments while figuring out the dough was done in round cast iron skillets. The shape doesn't matter.

I did a chicken fennel sausage & hatch green chile tray for this evening. Made one last evening for dinner guests & it was so good, we had to make another today! Sausage is homemade from boneless skinless chicken thighs. Grind 'em up in the food processor, add some fresh ground fennel seed to it & saute' until cooked. The green chiles are....well just cleaned & chopped roasted hatch green chiles. We buy a case every year when green chile season comes along & freeze them so we have them all year long. In addition, we infused a few ozs of EVOO with freshly chopped garlic to drizzle on to finish topping the tray.

The richness of the sausage & the low & slow burn of the mild green chiles is pulled together by the garlic oil & creamy white cheddar. This pizza is absolutely decadent with strong flavors on a crispy crust. It's become one of our real favorites to make on the VP style crust.

Wow, I'm going to try that combo. :drool:
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on June 06, 2015, 10:36:29 AM
Stopped at Pizza Loven couple weeks ago on the way from bringing my daughter home from Penn State. I miss this pizza. I really need to get my butt in gear and try to make this recipe.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pizzabill on October 19, 2015, 07:44:03 AM
Thanks for all your work on these pizzas guys! I came here to learn this style so I could surprise my neighbor who grew up in Old Forge. She came over with her daughter for pizza the other night and was thrilled at the results! She was near tears as she described the memories that the pizza brought back to her. You guys are amazing. Thanks for helping me make her day.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on October 27, 2015, 07:22:59 PM
Thanks for all your work on these pizzas guys! I came here to learn this style so I could surprise my neighbor who grew up in Old Forge. She came over with her daughter for pizza the other night and was thrilled at the results! She was near tears as she described the memories that the pizza brought back to her. You guys are amazing. Thanks for helping me make her day.

Well that makes my day! Thanks!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: hotsawce on November 02, 2015, 04:06:20 PM
Was this the 67% hydration version? Do you recall what oven temp you baked at and the setup? Stone, rack, etc?

I tried this Victory Pig style for the first time tonight, and liked the new experience.
Its like a focaccia, but crispier, at least how mine turned out.
The pics may slightly hide the fact that I made it in a round aluminized steel pan (sorry, no rectangular ones in stock).  ::)

The crust was very crispy and light, the cheese slightly caramelized on the edges, interesting onion/tomato flavor. I think it might be good with some sausage too (but what isn't?).

Where do I pick up a Nash Blue Steel Pan?
Although I could just keep doing it circular, with a party cut...I like this particular pan.

thanks s_b!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: woodmakesitgood on November 02, 2015, 04:23:09 PM
Was this the 67% hydration version? Do you recall what oven temp you baked at and the setup? Stone, rack, etc?

If I had to guess, I think yes.
I was trying to get some steel_baker mojo, and would have used his recipe and video pointers from back on page 1.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: pk on November 03, 2015, 01:12:30 AM
Great thread!! Finally finished reading all the posts!!

I have two questions about the original dough recipe.

1. What is the purpose of the oil? (Softens the texture of the crust?)

2. Is the sugar just used as a 'browning' agent? to give more crispness?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 03, 2015, 09:26:02 AM
Great thread!! Finally finished reading all the posts!!

I have two questions about the original dough recipe.

1. What is the purpose of the oil? (Softens the texture of the crust?) Oil is optional, used for flavor as most pizza doughs contain olive oil

2. Is the sugar just used as a 'browning' agent? to give more crispness? Yes, I like to add sugar for browning & to feed the yeast
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: tussin on November 25, 2015, 03:01:12 PM
I called PA Products today and they did confirm that they are no longer making Blue Steel pans.  What is a good alternative to them?
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on November 25, 2015, 03:45:55 PM
Haven't really looked since I have a few for myself. The Paderno blue steel baking sheets work quite well (Amazon.com) although they are not as deep as the PA Product pans. You have to use less oil in them to avoid overflow. You might try a good quality cake pan, even a non-stick version. I have a Chicago Metallic 9"x9" cake pan that I use for experimenting. I have a scaled down recipe that I use to make pizza with it & the results are great.

Here is a round deep dish non-stick that I'm sure would work well. Shape is irrelevant to the flavor you're after.

http://www.chicagometallicbakeware.com/bakeware-20/type-of-products/pizza-meatball-lasagna-pans/non-stick-deep-dish-pizza-pan.html (http://www.chicagometallicbakeware.com/bakeware-20/type-of-products/pizza-meatball-lasagna-pans/non-stick-deep-dish-pizza-pan.html)

-or-

The same 9"x9" cake pan I use for experimenting.

http://www.chicagometallicbakeware.com/bakeware-20/type-of-products/cake-pans/non-stick-9-square-cake-pan-289.html (http://www.chicagometallicbakeware.com/bakeware-20/type-of-products/cake-pans/non-stick-9-square-cake-pan-289.html)
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Chet on December 20, 2015, 12:32:14 PM
 Hi Bill
 its been awhile sine i made your pizza dough, in your original recipe the oil was 1%, digging up my recipe from the topic shows 2& oil, is this a misprint in my recipe or was there an update i missed somewhere along the line, last time i made the recipe using 2& seemed ok. correct me on the oil %

  Chet
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: steel_baker on December 20, 2015, 12:43:30 PM
Hi Chet,

Yes, my earlier recipe had oil at 2%. Since moving to the southwest & having to modify the recipe for altitude, I have eliminated the oil from the recipe. I did this primarily because it's hard enough to get nice brown crispiness at my 7,000' altitude, eliminating the oil from the recipe makes it an easier brown. I also ended up changing from all bread flour to a 50/50 blend of bread & self rising flours. The info I have tells me that VP uses all self rising flour.

My new recipes:

Pizza Dough 12x17 pan                          9x9 pan

Flour              | 100%  | 409g                  164g
Water             |   67%  |  274g                 114g
Salt                 |  1.5% |    8g                    5g
IDY                 |  2.0%  |      8g                  3g
Sugar             |  2.0%  |   6-8g                2g

Flour is a 50/50 blend of bread flour & self rising flour

Updated 10/17/2014

Pizza dough 12x17 pan - High Altitude

Flour        | 100% | 430g
Water      |  70%  | 301g
Salt         |  2.0% | 9g
IDY         |  2.3% | 10g
Sugar      |  2.0% | 9g
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: louie_howe on February 13, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
I'd like to join the chorus of thank yous for your work and willingness to post the results.  I grew up in NEPA, and while Ceccoli's was and remains my favorite when I get back for a visit, it never really dawned on me that it would be possible to make the style at home.  I'm a pretty adventurous cook and baker, but it seemed that there must be some secret that put it beyond trying it at home.  Maybe that VP and Ceccoli's prosper with strange hours, long waits, and cash only policies...

Anyway, my third try is in the oven.  A few little tweaks because of preferences - 6 in 1 crushed tomatoes, a mix of sharp provolone and mozz, a splash of fish sauce and black pepper in the sauce.  It is about the crust.  To my taste, neither VP nor Ceccoli's (where the pizza looks like it's topped with stewed tomatoes) have a sauce/cheese combination that is so great it's worth sticking to exactly.

My husband is also a fan, although he grew up in Albany, NY.  He says that a Troy pizza joint made this style, but that wasn't true when we stopped there recently.  Maybe it has changed over the years, but now it's just an average medium thick square pizza.

Anyway, thanks!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: ILPadrino on March 04, 2016, 01:37:30 PM
Hi Steel_baker,
I want to thank you for the VP recipe!  I have made it a few times now and it came out great.  I grew up across the river in Plains, Pa but moved to SE PA about 20yrs ago...I have a hard time finding good pizza down here, let alone anything that compares to to NE Pa pizza.  I had my dad "purchase" ,me a few steel trays from one of the local pizza  joints up that way, and it made a huge difference in the way the pizza turned out....I had 2 Aunt's that worked at the PIG for 40-50 yrs and never once thought of asking either one how the pizza was made....just took it for granted that this is how all pizza is made.  My Nona made it the same way.  Stupid me, should have paid a little better attention!!

I am looking for a recipe for Old Forge style stuffed white pizza if anyone would like to share..

Joe
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on April 29, 2017, 05:53:38 PM
finally got around to making the pizza. Have to say well worth time spent learning. Just need to brown on bottom better by moving rack in oven to bottom next time. Hopefully this will awaken this topic again. It's had a long dry spell.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on August 13, 2017, 05:27:50 PM
Stopped at pizza L'oven and Ciccoli's and Genoa Foods to get some items. I didn't have the VP Pizza for a long time so I went to Ciccoli's to try their version. I will share more information on the differences later.
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: PizzaBinge on August 14, 2017, 12:07:27 AM
Stopped at pizza L'oven and Ciccoli's and Genoa Foods to get some items. I didn't have the VP Pizza for a long time so I went to Ciccoli's to try their version. I will share more information on the differences later.

Funny, I just had both Pizza Perfect and Ceccoli's today. Love Ceccoli's!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: quietdesperation on August 27, 2017, 05:08:14 PM
I happened upon this thread, looked up the location of vp, and realized it was just a 20-minute detour off our path to my son's school in the midwest. We arrived around 7:30 and ordered 6 slices of plain, a pork sandwich, a victory pig burger, and smoked wings. we didn't care for the sandwich, it didn't taste smoked but the relish was interesting. The wings were rubbed, smoked then fried, really good stuff! My son woofed down the burger before I could try it, he said it was very good.

The pizza is good but IMO, it's a little of an acquired taste. The crust is fabulous, the sauce is bright and tart. But the onions in the sauce and cheese take a little getting used to. if VP was a five-minute detour, we'd definitely be back but not sure for 20 minutes.

I may try to borrow the crust and sauce,  change the mix of cheddar and mozz to favor mozz and add some toppings.

sb, thanks for your great posts!
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: mkoss on November 06, 2017, 08:15:11 AM
I happened upon this thread, looked up the location of vp, and realized it was just a 20-minute detour off our path to my son's school in the midwest. We arrived around 7:30 and ordered 6 slices of plain, a pork sandwich, a victory pig burger, and smoked wings. we didn't care for the sandwich, it didn't taste smoked but the relish was interesting. The wings were rubbed, smoked then fried, really good stuff! My son woofed down the burger before I could try it, he said it was very good.

The pizza is good but IMO, it's a little of an acquired taste. The crust is fabulous, the sauce is bright and tart. But the onions in the sauce and cheese take a little getting used to. if VP was a five-minute detour, we'd definitely be back but not sure for 20 minutes.

I may try to borrow the crust and sauce,  change the mix of cheddar and mozz to favor mozz and add some toppings.

sb, thanks for your great posts!
Next time through try Pizza Loven,its a variation of the VP pizza. Same dough but don't put onions in sauce but seasoning and use wisconsin mild cheddar wereas VP uses I believe provolone. I think both pizzas are fabulous. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: Joe_C on November 16, 2017, 09:38:19 AM
Local newspaper article on the 75th anniversary of Victory Pig.  Interesting and rare photos of the kitchen prep area. 
http://www.timesleader.com/features/682406/victory-pig-pizza-celebrates-75-years-in-business-under-ceccoli-family
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: causearuckus on January 24, 2018, 04:17:20 PM
Hey everyone, been reading this thread to gain some insights on this style of pizza. I stopped at VP over the summer, and it was unique and awesome. Will post a few pics below.

My wife's family is from the area, and her Grandfather's cousin was one of the first cooks at VP when it opened. He happened to take what he learned and started Pizza Loven.  Her grandfather claims that the recipe found here: http://k0lee.com/vp.php (http://k0lee.com/vp.php) is the actual recipe for VP. I tried scaling down the second recipe on the page, and it was way too dry. Doing the math I believe its somewhere around 55% hydration. I was going to try somewhere higher, maybe around 60%, but it looks like 65% might be the magic number. I am hoping to try again this weekend, so will post my updated recipe.

I also had difficulty getting the crust to finish while keeping the toppings "rare". I may try putting foil on the top.

Also, my grandfather-in-law was adamant that Pizza Loven uses WI White cheddar on their pies.


Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: NepaBill on January 25, 2018, 07:06:25 AM
I believe your grandfather is correct about the cheese..  Local to Victory Pig and L'oven are numerous pizza supply businesses. One is Genoa in Plains, PA. 18705, and the other is City-Mager in Wilkes-Barre 18702..  I'm betting these two businesses were around long before Sysco Foods made their presence known to this area..  They both offer cash-n-carry, and both are open to the public..  They both carry Land O'Lakes mild cheddar cheese, which comes in 40lb blocks..  This cheddar is unlike any cheddar you can find in a grocery store, besides it being only $2.xx per pound, it is very mild and creamy, no sharpness at all to it..  Land O'Lakes sells this cheese in Mild, Medium, and Sharp, but I believe these places only carry the Mild.  Both Genoa, and City-Mager also carry high quality tomato products (Escalon and Stanislaus) for sauce making, along with spices at a very reasonable price..  Not sure if anyone has ever compared "Detroit Style Pizza" to V.P. & L'Oven, but I have been playing with Detroit style, and the dough is spot on..  The only major difference I see, is the cheese used..  Detroit supposedly uses "Brick" cheese, which is a brand also available locally..  For those not familiar with Brick Cheese, it's a buttery tasting Mozzarella like cheese..  This site is great!  I love reading these posts..  Support your Local Mom & Pop Pizza shops!!  Make sure to frequent V.P. and L'Oven, so you can compare your latest batch to theirs..  Also, if you are familiar with the area, my favorite pizza in this style is "Spare Time Pizza" in Dallas, PA.  located in the Bowling Alley..  Yes I said Bowling Alley.. 
Title: Re: Victory Pig Style Pizza - Northeastern PA
Post by: causearuckus on January 25, 2018, 02:36:07 PM
I am thinking Detroit dough might be wetter (more hydration) than VP dough. But you are right, they are pretty similar.