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Author Topic: Favorite sicilian pizza to recreate or emulate at home? Recipe request  (Read 752 times)

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Offline Santo

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I have been doing a ton of L&B pies but now I want to move away (temporarily?) from the soft L&B style. I want something more crispy and perhaps more typical of the ubiquitous NY style sicilian. L&B is very specific and different than most NY places.

Are there any good recipes or styles to emulate? Any suggestions of recipes sicilian pies? Perhaps fav toppings and styles?

Can you also tell me your opinion on parbake vs no parbake? What is the difference in the end result in your opinion?

Thanks

Offline Pizza-Face

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Ahhhhh crispy, thas the ticket! Craig's New York square. He basically makes a DiFara's clone better. Not a long thread, read thru and get his progress along the way and snag the recipe he finalizes toward the end. It's really one delectable Sicilian!  :drool:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40636.0

Offline scott r

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par bake:
fluffier lighter airier.  This is a must do for hydrations in the mid 70's on up where toppings would collapse the crumb if on the pizza from the start. You can try things like the first bake with only watery sauce (thanks Andrew B) or just water or just sauce too.

no par bake:
more dense because toppings weigh down the dough a bit, but it has a certain je ne sais quoi. I think there is something special that happens on that layer where the top of the dough meets the toppings.  I dont want a gum layer, but there is something I like with this technique that I cant put into words.   

There is also something in between these two options that you see this in Detroit style where the sauce is saved until after the entire bake but other toppings are put on at the beginning.  You can also play with some at the beginning some 1/2 way through. Hans' thread "Detroit style my way" has a great recipe too and that dough adapts well to Sicilian style. 

Offline Santo

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par bake:
fluffier lighter airier.  This is a must do for hydrations in the mid 70's on up where toppings would collapse the crumb if on the pizza from the start. You can try things like the first bake with only watery sauce (thanks Andrew B) or just water or just sauce too.

no par bake:
more dense because toppings weigh down the dough a bit, but it has a certain je ne sais quoi. I think there is something special that happens on that layer where the top of the dough meets the toppings.  I dont want a gum layer, but there is something I like with this technique that I cant put into words.   

There is also something in between these two options that you see this in Detroit style where the sauce is saved until after the entire bake but other toppings are put on at the beginning.  You can also play with some at the beginning some 1/2 way through. Hans' thread "Detroit style my way" has a great recipe too and that dough adapts well to Sicilian style.

I noticed I get a really nice cheese melt at around 425-450 in my oven. I like that white gooey looking cheese I'm not a fan of "too much" Browning on top. Would hans recipe work at these temperatures?


Also my wife likes a dense pizza but I'm not sure how to achieve that. I strive for airy. Interesting about the proofing you mentioned after fully dressing the pizza so that it remains dense. Would you still do a long proof? What would the proof do if the toppings are compressing the dough? It's against my instincts to create a dense Pizza but if you have any ideas that can tastefully achieve this please let me know.

Denseness aside, My instinct was to do the parbake with some sauce, let the sauce cook on top of the Sicilian shell, then take it out and for the second bake put cheese on the caramelized sauce and then splashes of sauce on top of the cheese scattered around , artfully like a Picasso lol. But the look really pops when I cook that cheese and sauce at like 425-450 (lower temps) . Would it be beneficial to do the par bake at a high temperature and then the second part of the bake at the lower temperature?

Offline scott r

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Yes his recipe will work at any temperature.  As you go lower in temp it will get more dense, so that is good for your wife! The dual temp (higher par bake, lower 2nd bake) will give you a more airy result (less dense) than if it was all done at a lower temperature.

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Offline Santo

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Yes his recipe will work at any temperature.  As you go lower in temp it will get more dense, so that is good for your wife! The dual temp (higher par bake, lower 2nd bake) will give you a more airy result (less dense) than if it was all done at a lower temperature.

Thank you! I want to try this. From the post, what i can see is that it is:

100% KABF     160g
  70% HYD       112g
   1% IDY         1.6g
   2% Salt         3.2g
   2% LDMP      3.2g

Is this correct? Should i lower the LDMP and add in sugar like i see that you mentioned somewhere in the sea of replies i have been looking over? Lol.
In fact i am not sure about my LDMP. I use Hoosier Hill Farm Dry Malt Powder Diastatic.

The Litner rating for Hoosier Hill Farm Dry Malt (Diastatic) Baking Powder (the one that i use) is 60. I am also using gold medal bread flour. I will also use a bit of VWG (this shouldn't negatively impact the ldmp right?)

Given the litner rating and the bread flour i am using, should i adjust this recipe at all? I have no clue how the litner rating factors into this but i am sure that it is significant  ??? :-D.

Thank you!

And i bulk it for 2 hours and then stretch it into the pan and let it proof for 2 hours? Then i can parbake it, lightly sauced, with a lightly crisco (or olive oil?) greased lloyds sicilian pan at 550 for 5-8 mins, remove and dress it w/ sauce, cheese, and then put it back in and cook at about 450 until im satisfied with the top?

I have been looking at the Andrew Bellucci sicilian as well. I was considering parbaking it in the lloyds, on a heated stone at 550 middle rack, with a little sauce on the top. Then removing it, letting it cool, and preheating the lloyds pan in the oven with olive oil at 425-450, until it is smoking like he does, and put the dressed pie into the hot pan so its really sizzling, and then put it back in for the remaining cook until cheese/sauce is cooked on top.

What do you think? Can you describe how you approach the hans detroit? Thanks so much.

Offline scott r

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100% KABF     160g
  70% HYD       112g
   1% IDY         1.6g
   2% Salt         3.2g
   2% LDMP      3.2g

Is this correct? Should i lower the LDMP and add in sugar like i see that you mentioned somewhere in the sea of replies i have been looking over? Lol.
In fact i am not sure about my LDMP. I use Hoosier Hill Farm Dry Malt Powder Diastatic.

That is correct. I think that for the Hans experience you want to stick with it the way it is!  This pizza recipe turned out awesome for me.  I also happen to use Hoosier Hill LDMP and when I made this recipe I did not use 2% malt, I cut that in half to 1%, but that was my only change to his recipe.   There is no need for sugar, it browned up just fine for me.

The Litner rating for Hoosier Hill Farm Dry Malt (Diastatic) Baking Powder (the one that i use) is 60. I am also using gold medal bread flour. I will also use a bit of VWG (this shouldn't negatively impact the ldmp right?)

Dont bother adding VWG to bread flour, its not needed.

Given the litner rating and the bread flour i am using, should i adjust this recipe at all? I have no clue how the litner rating factors into this but i am sure that it is significant  ??? :-D.

I would only cut down the LDMP, thats it.

And i bulk it for 2 hours and then stretch it into the pan and let it proof for 2 hours? Then i can parbake it, lightly sauced, with a lightly crisco (or olive oil?) greased lloyds sicilian pan at 550 for 5-8 mins, remove and dress it w/ sauce, cheese, and then put it back in and cook at about 450 until im satisfied with the top?

I seem to remember it taking longer than 4 hours, and I dont remember a bulk rise of 1/2 the duration of fermentation, but I could be wrong.  The time to bake the dough is when it has risen a lot and it looks right... I think his thread must have pics to guide you.

I have been looking at the Andrew Bellucci sicilian as well. I was considering parbaking it in the lloyds, on a heated stone at 550 middle rack, with a little sauce on the top. Then removing it, letting it cool, and preheating the lloyds pan in the oven with olive oil at 425-450, until it is smoking like he does, and put the dressed pie into the hot pan so its really sizzling, and then put it back in for the remaining cook until cheese/sauce is cooked on top.

I would follow all of the Hans guidelines for his pizza.  Then on another mix you should follow all of the Andrew Bellucci guidelines. That will give you the best chance of success with each recipe.  Once you have experienced each of them you can start merging the two if need be.

What do you think? Can you describe how you approach the hans detroit? Thanks so much.

I think I have pretty much summed it up here.  Good luck and post pics of the dough at various stages and the finished product.

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