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Dough Clinic / Researching Pizza Napoletana in Canada
« Last post by Bhushan93 on Today at 01:57:32 PM »
Since a young age (12th grade) , I have been researching on pizzamaking. I was in India and had limited resources during the time to continue with my journey. I am a Software engineer by profession and have been working in the same field since quite many years. However, my interest and love for italian style pizzas (Pizza napolitana, Romana, Baari) has been consistent.

I would like to open my own venture at some point in Canada(not sure with current govt. and ongoing housing crisis, I will ever be able to). 
But I recently started experimenting with dough recipes, flours, temperature, maturity, cheese, ooni ovens etc. and have been dwindling here and there. In my experimentation I found that Canada is way far behind flour research, cheese, supply etc . We hardly have any flour which has the necessary specs to compete with American and Italian flours despite being the 2nd or 3rd largest wheat producer.

Not many people know this, But the Hawaiian Pizza was invented in Canada and not Hawaii  :D

In my ongoing journey I found various things.
Commerical :  I found that using commercial ingredients greatly helps in getting the taste and feel instead of using consumer grade ingredients.


Flour: The cheapest Canadian alternative to 00 flour is from ardent mills, the primo mulino. In my research I found that it has 11-12.5g of protien. However, there are no specs on its wheat identification as to if it is a soft wheat or hard wheat flour. Canada in general produces more hard wheat flour than softwheat because of harsh winter climate so my guess is that, this flour maybe somewhat a mix between the two. Moreoever, there's no alveograph specs. so there's no information on the "w content". from My research from similar flours i found that primo mulino is/maybe somewhere between W260-280 . However, I do not have any substantial proof to back that claim. I also found that few local pizzerias in Mississauga,ON uses this flour in combination with other italian flours like caputo blue. However, they tend to use less % of blue as it costs around 65-70$ for a 25kg bag as of 2024.

Also, I found that some Toronto pizzerias uses organic bakers flour by P&H such as the Bar sugo in Toronto area. Which is a strong flour as per its specs. If there are any local pizzerias in Canada on this platform I would love to find out what you guys are using. Or if you have apprenticeship program, It could help as well.

Cheese: I find plain fior di latte, buffalo mozzarella, or any fresh mozzarella variety to be quite bland and over hyped cheese. This may make italians unhappy but its the truth. These mozzarellas doesnt have necessary a taste but rather a mouthfeel. if cooked correctly it may be melty and milky especially the fior di latte for max 3-4 mins.
This brings me to the most unusual specification but the one making most sense compared to US and Italy. Canada has different spec sheets for its cheese. We identify cheese with Milk Fat% and Moisture %. Higher the milk fat, higher the grease. Lower the moisture, higher the blisters but stronger tasting cheese.
therefore, it is very difficult to find a cheese that matches the specs for lets say Grande cheese in USA. Canada does have a "Grande Cheese" brand but its nearly not the same as the US counterpart.
Fior di latte in Canada are bit expensive as well as the milk prices are government controlled. Therefore its really hard to find a cheap alternative to fresh cheese for commercial use and because of this reason, Pizzas which are supposed to be cheap food cost minimum of 14$ for a margherita in 2024.

If there are any experts who could help me out here it would greatly help.

Mixer: I have a planetary mixer. But I have heard that developing the extensibility and extensiveness of the dough its best to use spiral mixer. However, I dont have that and therefore I try my best with planetary mixer. Does anyone knows how to acheive the same results with planetary mixer ? . I usually mix for 11-12min on low then med and then high speeds. I used to go with autolyse but I found that too much autolyse may ruin gluten strucuture.


Dough: There are already lot of experts on this forum who have mentioned lot of great things such as Dough Doctor, TXCraig, pizza pete, vito iacopelli, tony etc. I am just following their research and receipes. I have ooni koda which goes upto 400c. The dough I experimented with was a direct dough 63% hydration with 24hr ferment with 16hr cold and then ball up for 6-7 hours.
It was not room ferment as I believe I had a weak flour. I was using polselli classica at that time and the dough generally didnt felt that strong during the stretching. Maybe I am using more yeast ? I use around 0.7% to 1% yeast with 2.2% salt. Now I know that this varies on room temperature you are operating but I usually go in range of .07-1%.
When I pick up the dough, I wasnt able to use the slapping technique as it felt as if it would tear due to weak strucuture. therefore I use the Knuckles technique where it will flop over on its own due to gravity. That's when I realized that the dough may be bit weak.

I would greatly appreciate if someone on this group could help me out here to get to the slapping technique.


I do have lot more to add here. But not sure if people will ever see this post.  ;D
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Pizza Ovens / Re: New Effeuno oven?
« Last post by Heikjo on Today at 01:49:31 PM »
Only Ä2400! I doubt this will revolutionize home pizza making. Isnít the Gara line intended for professional applications? Itís probably a very nice oven, but very expensive.
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Pizza Ovens / Re: New Effeuno oven?
« Last post by bepi on Today at 01:29:43 PM »
P134 Gara Evolution -
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Home Ovens / Re: The classic gas oven -ARDORE
« Last post by robca on Today at 12:57:26 PM »
What is the max size peel that will fit in the Adore?
The opening at the bottom is a fraction over 14", but realistically anything larger than 13" would be hard to use
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Pizza Ovens / Re: Ciao Bella Fiamo Oven
« Last post by dasabonis on Today at 12:49:00 PM »
Quick update for those who are curious. My oven arrived last week and I am currently building my outdoor kitchen so it has a place to live. My initial impressions are very positive. The oven walls are alot thicker than I expected and the build quality looks to be top notch. The real test will be when I fire it up to 900F and up. Customer service t Ciao Bella has been fantastic as well. Will keep everyone updated.
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Shop Talk / Re: Frustrated Pizzeria Owner - Looking for feedback
« Last post by CaptainofCrush on Today at 11:49:32 AM »
Iím not one to give advice since Iíve never ran a pizza business, but why not cut down your hours to 4-9 or so every night. This way you arenít even open for lunch since you say itís always slow, this cuts back on food and labor expense. Your sales will probably stay similar to what they are now. That and getting more efficient and dialed in on food expenses.
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Home Ovens / Re: The classic gas oven -ARDORE
« Last post by DDT on Today at 11:07:28 AM »
What is the max size peel that will fit in the Adore?
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Thanks Simone and Mathew. For pizzas that are not 100% Neapolitan but more a cross of them and NY is the refractory better or is biscotto best all around?
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Sicilian Style / Re: Two more square pies today.
« Last post by PapaJawnz on Today at 10:38:27 AM »
Hey Jawnz! Thanks!  You should !  Squares would work well in your oven as I usually cook at 450 in the pan.  I get nine 4x4Ē slices my kids and I usually eat 2 each so figure 4.5 people lol. 

If you can fit the 12x12 pan in your oven I would highly recommend there is nothing on the market that I can see of this quality.

Thanks for all the info!  My oven can hold a 12x12 steel with no issues, maybe a half inch of room on the front to back and a fair bit more side to side.  As long as it's straight sides.  I have a better oven that can go 16" deep but at a convex. A 12x12 steel fits great in there with a lot more wiggle room.

It looks like the dough weight is about 3 1/4 times the size of my 12" new york-ish style dough which on a hungry day I can crush without issue for a plain pizza (no bones).  So I guess I'm looking easy at 3-4 meals with that.  Glad to know the reheats turn out great, with that many meals I might have to freeze the slices and that would put me in pizza making mode a lot less.  Too bad I don't have more people around.  It may be better for me to have a smaller pan, or I could possibly do half and half, one half pizza, the other cheese bread.
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Sicilian Style / Re: Two more square pies today.
« Last post by Decoy205 on Today at 10:30:43 AM »
Great looking sicilians Decoy!  :chef:  I need to get into the square game, not that I'm a square but I do like a good square  ;D  How many people do you figure the 12x12 feeds?  Do you do any reheats, and if so how do you like them compared to the fresh pizza?

Hey Jawnz! Thanks!  You should !  Squares would work well in your oven as I usually cook at 450 in the pan.  I get nine 4x4Ē slices my kids and I usually eat 2 each so figure 4.5 people lol. 

If you can fit the 12x12 pan in your oven I would highly recommend there is nothing on the market that I can see of this quality.

I do try and get it crispy on first bake but reheats is always crispier!  For a reheat I would preheat a stone or steel in the oven at 375 or 400 depending and cook the slices for 6-10 mins and it gets nice and crispy without drying out.

Hereís the reheats I did by heating up Walters pan in the oven at 375 put the slices right outta the fridge onto the preheated pan for about 10-12 mins and they had a nice crisp.
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